microlith: Bohemian: What kind of crack are you smoking?

Sources, please. Also, how much KI did you buy?
At least two different nuke experts who work in the industry and none. I'm not worried about the iodine, it only has a half life of 8 days and I am old enough the cancer risk if there even was enough exposure is pretty much not there. The problem is that they are finding cesium 137 on the west coast of the US and in Sweden. If significant amounts of cesium accumulate that could be a problem since it has a half life of 30 years. Just be glad plutonium is heavy. Well, be glad as long as you don't live in Japan. They are going to have a big no mans land.

FTA: "Japan's worst nuclear disaster"

I guess that depends on how you define disaster.

Sounds like folks well outside of the evacuation zone are now getting their "maximum annual radiation dose" at a rate as high as every 4-days. Link (new window)

I'm sure the calm-mongers will claim that's perfectly normal, and there's nothing for these people to worry about, especially with their children. They're measuring between 7 and 10 microsievert per hour in the unevacuated town of Iitate.

Bendal: You do realize all the Pu has remained on the plant grounds, haven't you, and that they've not determined if the Pu came from the reactor (doubtful) or one of the spent fuel rod ponds (more likely)?

And if we know anything about Pu, it's that it respects fences.

(Farking hell how stupid do these posts have to get before the nuclear industry pipes up and says "Please, you're not helping with your so-called defenses.")

It's my understanding that plutonium can travel quite a large distance when it's in water. But I've been convinced by the calm people around here, so I'll assume the prevailing winds that blew all the Iodine and Cesium out into the ocean had no effect on plutonium. And that the fish are respecting the 20 km evacuation zone. And that fish do not migrate across great distances. And that plutonium tastes like wasabi and will make the sushi better.

bigdavediode: And if we know anything about Pu, it's that it respects fences.

Well, it only went 500m away, half a kilometer. That's "within the plant" right? Like right outside the door, practically.

Depends on how big the plant is, now isn't it? Since it certainly looks to me from aerial photos that the nuclear plant runs a good half mile around the reactors, I'd say it was.

And no, I'm not aware that Pu gets carried along in water any better than any other heavy metal does. IOW, it tends to sink. You also do realize that the amounts of Pu found were very, very small?

And don't give me that "but, but, Pu is the most toxic substance known to man!" BS, because it's not. It's nowhere close to that, in fact. Not a good substance to eat or breathe, mind you, but not deadly just sitting there.

Bendal: And don't give me that "but, but, Pu is the most toxic substance known to man!" BS,

I don't believe anyone has.

At least debate the statements actually made, not the absurdities in your imagination.

rka: bigdavediode: And if we know anything about Pu, it's that it respects fences.

Well, it only went 500m away, half a kilometer. That's "within the plant" right? Like right outside the door, practically.

The fence has a clear sign which says "no plutonium."

That should be good enough.

Here's a statement you can debate, from a place I know you're watching.

Quote

From http://allthingsnuclear.org/

"The IAEA is reporting that measured soil concentrations of Cs-137 as far away as Iitate Village, 40 kilometers northwest of Fukushima-Dai-Ichi, correspond to deposition levels of up to 3.7 megabecquerels per square meter (MBq/sq. m)."

To put that in perspective they add:

"This should be compared with the deposition level that triggered compulsory relocation in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident: the level set in 1990 by the Soviet Union was 1.48 MBq/sq. m."



Hmm, so higher levels than Chernobyl.

Not to be a "safe-monger" but has anyone addressed the fact that the plutonium levels found are equivalent to the levels previously found in Japan before this accident due to nuclear weapons testing?

jingks: Not to be a "safe-monger" but has anyone addressed the fact that the plutonium levels found are equivalent to the levels previously found in Japan before this accident due to nuclear weapons testing?

Well, last I heard that was for the samples done in between the buildings. The NYTimes reported that there were also samples done 500 yards away, but the levels weren't reported by TEPCO, NISA (as far as I can tell) or anyone else. Nor did the Japanese government report that there were even samples taken that far away.

So if they've reported that the levels between the buildings are fine, assume that only the levels between the buildings are fine.

jingks: Not to be a "safe-monger" but has anyone addressed the fact that the plutonium levels found are equivalent to the levels previously found in Japan before this accident due to nuclear weapons testing?

I think just about every article you read points that out.

But I thought those tests were stopped for a reason, like...I dunno, being dangerous to people's health.

rka: Hmm, so higher levels than Chernobyl.

Bu bu but, it's not gonna be as bad as Chernobyl! That's pretty much the last argument the calm-mongers have now.

Wonder what they'll come up with next?

MrSteve007: rka: Hmm, so higher levels than Chernobyl.

Bu bu but, it's not gonna be as bad as Chernobyl! That's pretty much the last argument the calm-mongers have now.

Wonder what they'll come up with next?

Well the fact that it's worse than Chernobyl just shows how safe these plants are, because Chernobyl was virtually impossible and this is even less likely than that.

bigdavediode: Well the fact that it's worse than Chernobyl just shows how safe these plants are, because Chernobyl was virtually impossible and this is even less likely than that.

It's also interesting that most people are regarding this as just 'one' more nuclear disaster. This is at least four or seven more nuclear disasters, all right next to each other.

3 active reactors, 4 spent fuel pools - and it's beginning to look like all the "failsafe" safety, cooling and containment systems engineers planned for them have likely failed in one way or another.

If one reactor failed, I could *maybe* see that. But we're talking failure, upon failure across three separate reactors; failed cooling, failed redundant cooling, failed offsite power, failed onsite power, failed backup onsite power, failed primary containment, failed secondary containment, failed hydrogen venting, failed monitoring, failed control rooms, etc - and with absolutely no end in sight, and constant rises in deposited radioactive material. Sure, iodine has a half-life of 8 days. How about the cesium? That stuff is going everywhere, including on land. Let alone the potential for continued plutonium emissions from the MOX reactor

With those highly-dangerous cesium levels measured some 40km NW of the plant, it really is becoming a nuclear nightmare.

That isn't fear-mongering; every word of that is our new farking reality.

MrSteve007: With those highly-dangerous cesium levels measured some 40km NW of the plant, it really is becoming a nuclear nightmare.

That isn't fear-mongering; every word of that is our new farking reality.

Oh God, you're exaggerating so much. First off, it's only 4/6, and as we all know, two out of three ain't bad.

And the plutonium couldn't have gone far just because. And the Cesium 134 and 131 won't last long, a matter of weeks and although that might kill a few people, it's not a big deal, and the Cesium 137 just makes spinach crunchier.

Eh. I don't know, the more I look at it the more I think a good chunk of Japan is just screwed. I liked the idea of throwing a massive fabric tarp over all four just to keep the airborne emissions down. Otherwise they're risking another explosion which could throw plutonium over Tokyo. Unlikely, but still quite possible especially with the reduced water flows.

If that happens then things are going to get really exciting. Really the only thing that's saved a larger chunk of Japan was favorable winds.

With those highly-dangerous cesium levels measured some 40km NW of the plant, it really is becoming a nuclear nightmare.

That isn't fear-mongering; every word of that is our new farking reality."
=================================================================

// It is good to see people here accepting the facts about atomic failure and man's helplessness in facing it down.
This should have been obvious from the start..
precious time has been wasted.

Lets try to Inform the citizens of Japan as much as possible.
I really worry that most of their People do not know the extent of this problem.

If i were in Japan, i would certainly want to know...
If anyone has loved ones or friends over there, do anything you can to help them leave.
that will help the stressed systems in Japan.

If this is not cured within a couple weeks, Tokyo could very well be facing mass evacuation.
all it takes is a change in the wind.
Sadly, we all know that in 2 weeks the radiation -admissions- will have escalated to panic inducing levels.

China is very worried, and that should worry the rest of the world.
............................................................

another thing i noticed, when Chernobyl started leaking, the rainfall in the PNW was overstimulated, flood warnings, etc.
The PNW received doses of up to 2600 pico-Curies per Liter of rain water during the heavy rains.

Guess what, Flood warnings in the PNW. and other parts of the US
I suspect large amounts of radioactive particles/ions in the air can stimulate excessive rainfall, and mega floods.
Something China does not welcome.
This is worth keeping an eye on.

Hey, it's not a big deal - it's not up to action levels *yet,* but the milk in my fridge now had radioactive Japanese iodine-131 in it. Yay. Link (new window)

MrSteve007: Hey, it's not a big deal - it's not up to action levels *yet,* but the milk in my fridge now had radioactive Japanese iodine-131 in it. Yay. Link (new window)

It'd be nice to no what the pre-disaster level, if any, where.

Supes: I've been pondering buying TKECF stock for the last couple days, but every time I'm about to it new things seem to come out indicating its not done dropping.

Based on what I've seen I'm guessing the low point will be around 4-5, but who knows at this point...

Well god forbid you be the person who has some balls and puts his money in a little early, doing his part to help stop the fall, rather than the guy who waits til the absolute last second to maximize how much profit he can make out of the misery of others.

gweilo8888: Well god forbid you be the person who has some balls and puts his money in a little early, doing his part to help stop the fall, rather than the guy who waits til the absolute last second to maximize how much profit he can make out of the misery of others.

Stocks are not charities. If people didn't want to lose their money they shouldn't have invested in anything that has such a high risk like nuclear.

Ha! G'wan now and buy Tepco.
little do ye know,
In Japan,
the stockholders get sued right along with the company.

I wonder if TEPCO is going to pay for the recovery and lead caskets for the ~1,000 now radioactive bodies outside the plant? Link (new window)

The various options regarding the bodies all sound hideous. How long have they been there now? Individually decontaminating each one doesn't sound like a plan.

MrSteve007: I wonder if TEPCO is going to pay for the recovery and lead caskets for the ~1,000 now radioactive bodies outside the plant? Link (new window)

Radioactive zombies?

Non-event. Perfectly safe.

/btw calm-mongers, that zombie crack was sarcasm. Don't need any posts as to why my zombie panic is totally overblown. Chernobyl zombies I'm sure were much worse.

Seriously though...that sucks.

I'm not a religious man, but thoughts at least go out to all people having to cope with loved ones that they can't give a dignified burial/cremation to.

One of the sources said bodies had been ''exposed to high levels of radiation after death.'' The view was supported by the detection Sunday of elevated levels of radiation on a body found in Okuma, Fukushima Prefecture, about 5 km from the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station."
Victims can be identified through DNA analysis of nail samples, but even then considerable time and effort must be taken to decontaminate the samples, according to experts.

Elevated levels of radiation detected on the victim in the town of Okuma last Sunday forced local police to give up on retrieving the body."
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
// These little bits of news show the true extent of the radioactive contamination, it sounds at least equal to that of Chernobyl.
If nail samples are considered too dangerous to handle....
bodies too dangerous to handle, bury or burn...

Technically, the news is being reported, but mixed with other wishful thinking, people miss the true impact of what is happening.
That is why Japanese citizens must get more info from the outside.
Insufficient or improperly accented info is probably the worst danger to the Japanese citizen ATM.