If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Academic Guy) Scary They'd gotten undergraduate degrees; why couldn't they write in sentences?   (chronicle.com) divider line 434
More: Scary  
•       •       •

32311 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Mar 2011 at 5:04 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



434 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all
 
2011-03-29 11:36:43 AM
The culture of cheating and "ends justify the means" as well as a lack of respect for intellectual property contributes heavily to this problem.

The ultimate goal for students is getting into grad school, and it doesn't matter how they get there. As long as you can eek out a PhD, they still call you "Doctor" and it's worth a lot of money once you graduate - and you can get by on the job by cheating as well. There have been times we've caught graduate students and employees of other companies plagiarizing our stuff and so informed their school/employer, only to have nothing happen to the offender.

I can't bring myself to do that, so I suspect I resent it that much more.
 
2011-03-29 12:54:02 PM
Kids these days. Back in MY day, they had respect for their elders! We'd never....grumble grumble....zzzzzzzzz.....
 
2011-03-29 02:06:40 PM
A sense of entitlement now pervades the academy American society as a whole, excellence be damned.

FT.
 
2011-03-29 02:08:16 PM
A sense of entitlement now pervades the academy, excellence be damned.

Looks like someone is doubting inherent American Exceptionalism(tm). Guards, seize her!
 
2011-03-29 02:29:48 PM
WTF?!?

Kasira: Kids these days. Back in MY day, they had respect for their elders! We'd never....grumble grumble....zzzzzzzzz.....

I recall some very lively discussions in many of my college classes, but no one ever disrespected the professors nor complained about their syllabi.
 
2011-03-29 03:22:07 PM
Kasira: Kids these days. Back in MY day, they had respect for their elders! We'd never....grumble grumble....zzzzzzzzz.....

For once, the article is spot on.
 
2011-03-29 03:41:48 PM
we would listen respectfully and give culturally sensitive feedback.

This is why people don't take academia seriously.
 
2011-03-29 03:44:48 PM
It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.
 
2011-03-29 04:23:38 PM
Because People in power are Stupid: It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.

He may not be. At work I get emails all the time from people under 30 with college degrees that can't write in sentences. These emails would be random incoherent thoughts thrown together with random punctuation. Some of them are so bad that I have to reply back to them that I can't understand what it is that they want and to respond back in English. It's said because it's not like these people are just learning English or English is their second language, these are native born Americans and native English speakers. And to be fair I have run into this problem with some of the people in England, in the same age group, that I work with.
 
2011-03-29 04:39:59 PM
I counted at least two too many unnecessary commas in that article.

Then I stopped counting.
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2011-03-29 04:48:26 PM
CtrlAltDelete: I counted at least two too many unnecessary commas in that article.

Then I stopped counting.


Maybe, they, were feel good commas ....
 
2011-03-29 04:55:25 PM
ongbok: Because People in power are Stupid: It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.

He may not be. At work I get emails all the time from people under 30 with college degrees that can't write in sentences. These emails would be random incoherent thoughts thrown together with random punctuation. Some of them are so bad that I have to reply back to them that I can't understand what it is that they want and to respond back in English. It's said because it's not like these people are just learning English or English is their second language, these are native born Americans and native English speakers. And to be fair I have run into this problem with some of the people in England, in the same age group, that I work with.


Ironic that carp follow. The seabed isn't it?
 
2011-03-29 05:02:21 PM
Some students don't seem to understand that they are paying for the opportunity to learn from experts in various fields. They are not paying for grades, they are not paying for a degree, they are not paying to be spoon-fed. They are paying for an opportunity, and it's up to them to make use of it. As an instructor, I will do my best to supply them with the material and background they need to make good use of their opportunity. However, if they cannot or do not master the course goals I will give them a grade that indicates as much.

There are many students who seem to have an entitlement complex. There are many more who appreciate their education and joys to have in the classroom.
 
2011-03-29 05:05:46 PM
The Shoveller: ... appreciate their education and are joys to have in the classroom.

FTFM.
 
2011-03-29 05:05:51 PM
The Shoveller: Some students don't seem to understand that they are paying for the opportunity to learn from experts in various fields. They are not paying for grades, they are not paying for a degree, they are not paying to be spoon-fed. They are paying for an opportunity, and it's up to them to make use of it. As an instructor, I will do my best to supply them with the material and background they need to make good use of their opportunity. However, if they cannot or do not master the course goals I will give them a grade that indicates as much.

There are many students who seem to have an entitlement complex. There are many more who appreciate their education and joys to have in the classroom.


Your course sounds boring.
 
2011-03-29 05:08:16 PM
Because People in power are Stupid: Your course sounds boring.

You sound like you'd provide lots of constructive feedback to help improve the situation.
 
2011-03-29 05:08:50 PM
They'd gotten undergraduate degrees; why couldn't they write in sentences?

Cause they're degree is n fisical edukashun?
 
2011-03-29 05:09:47 PM
CtrlAltDelete: I counted at least two too many unnecessary commas in that article.

Then I stopped counting.


Sounds like her students can't count that high either.
 
2011-03-29 05:10:08 PM
Why were they accosting me with hostile e-mails when I pointed out unsubstantiated generalizations, hyperbolic assumptions, ungrounded polemics, sourcing omissions, and possible plagiarism?

Did the author just describe Fox News?
 
2011-03-29 05:11:41 PM
I'll have to share this with my wife. She's a match teacher at the high school level and often winds up with students in algebra who have difficulty with seemingly basic mathematical skills. She's hoping to someday teach at the college level (if not as a PhD, at least as a lecturer), but it sounds like what's driving her away from the high school level has only moved on with those students.
 
2011-03-29 05:12:38 PM
If only there was some sort of system, an institution if you will, that could inspire intellectual growth and curiosity.
 
2011-03-29 05:12:45 PM
I just got my undergrad degree last spring.

This is definitely true of many of my peers.

However, many others in my classes impressed me with their dedication to the material, willingness to pursue concepts they didn't get at first, asking engaging questions, and generally improving my classroom experience by answering questions I didn't even know I had.

I just wanna tell the teacher keep your head up, the glass is half full! These articles start to drive me into a snowflake-hating rage, but just remind yourself that there are still some bright shiners in there with the cubic zirconiums. Or whatever.
 
2011-03-29 05:12:51 PM
Keep one of these on my desk:

upload.wikimedia.org
Have no problem recommending it
 
2011-03-29 05:13:28 PM
Welcome to the world of tl;dr, twitter-formed twits.
 
2011-03-29 05:13:39 PM
Like I care what a bunch of Ivory Tower egghead elitists think. Out here in Real America I'm doing real work.
 
2011-03-29 05:13:52 PM
Because People in power are Stupid: It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.

Elayne Clift is an adjunct faculty member at several colleges in New England. She writes about women, politics, and social issues.

She wasn't teaching anything useful.
 
2011-03-29 05:14:46 PM
Because their parents and teachers were pussies and should have

Kicked.
Their.
Asses.
 
2011-03-29 05:15:07 PM
My law school education was the first intellectually challenging experience of my life. We were held to a high standard and if you didn't like it, you failed and ultimately were kicked out.
 
2011-03-29 05:15:26 PM
Because People in power are Stupid: It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.

FTFA:
Elayne Clift is an adjunct faculty member at several colleges in New England. She writes about women, politics, and social issues.
 
2011-03-29 05:15:32 PM
Sample Courses Developed / Taught
International Health Promotion and Communication: Theory and Applications
Gender, Health and Development: Perspectives for Policy and Planning
Introduction to Women's Studies
Introduction to the Novel and Short Story
Gender Issues in a Globalized World
Introduction to Ethics
Introduction to Sociology
The Writing Process (Advanced and Beginners)
Oral Presentation

Silly liberal arts students.
 
2011-03-29 05:15:46 PM
baronvonzipper: Keep one of these on my desk:


Have no problem recommending it


Ah, the ol' Strunk & White. Made my time editing papers a dream. (Well, more of a nightmare, I guess, but Strunk & White definitely helped.)
 
2011-03-29 05:16:18 PM
Students in college are increasingly proving that any idiot can get a degree as long as they put some (minimal) effort into school. Their parents are shelling out the dough, so what the hell do they care? It's a shame. But that's the reality of it. There's a television show called "Campus Cops" that I've seen a few times. The campus police are always responding to complaints of a wild party, underage drinking, et cetera. Those that greet them upon arrival are usually arrogant, stupid kids who have parents in high places. They think that their lineage dictates that they can behave like barbarians and everything will be okay. They aren't royalty. They're spoiled brats. I laugh when the cops tell them different, and demand that they park their asses in the back seat of an interceptor. They almost always burst into tears.
 
2011-03-29 05:16:50 PM
I see it everyday at school (Electrical Engineering). Typically, the ones whining for more time on assignments, easier questions, etc, are the ones partying all the time or just generally slacking off. Cheating is also a big problem in some of my classes because they are too "hard." No shiat they're too hard! You just copy assignments handed down from years past! It's ridiculous.

I feel embarrassed sitting in class while the prof is bombarded with these requests.
 
2011-03-29 05:16:57 PM
NExD: My law school education was the first intellectually challenging experience of my life. We were held to a high standard and if you didn't like it, you failed and ultimately were kicked out.

I wish I can share that sentiment about law school.
 
2011-03-29 05:17:13 PM
1) Many Americans value achievement, not learning. That's why they prize the high grade/score, but have no respect for actually having to work to get the grade/score. How they got the idea that one can be gotten without the other, I don't know. I guess a lot of them have parents who don't care if they turn out to be worthless. I gotta wonder why so many people have kids when raising them right seems to have been too much trouble for them.

2) Many Americans treat every difficulty not as something for them to deal with or figure out, but as something that someone else has to fix for them, usually mommy or daddy or whoever the mommy/daddy substitute is. They don't want to learn from any experiences, they just want someone to grease the skids for them so they will never have to face any obstacles.
 
2011-03-29 05:18:04 PM
Panty Sniffer: Because People in power are Stupid: It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.

Elayne Clift is an adjunct faculty member at several colleges in New England. She writes about women, politics, and social issues.

She wasn't teaching anything useful.


grammar nazi..heh.. god forbid you should know how to speak and write in your own language.
 
2011-03-29 05:19:35 PM
really? send them my way

cache.boston.com
 
rka
2011-03-29 05:19:37 PM
Lou Brown: Silly liberal arts students.

I work in the tech industry and we get all sorts of "engineering" interns.

By about day 3 we've figured out that 90% are only good for the most menial tasks. Sometimes a screwdriver is too much for them.

It's not just liberal arts students.
 
2011-03-29 05:19:47 PM
In NYC these days there's some ridiculously huge percentage of college students (65%, I think the number was) who are required to take remedial writing and mathematics courses before they can start the regular degree program.

I'm glad that at least some educational institutions think it's worth the trouble to teach people to write and do basic addition and substraction. But holy jumping jesus. They have to get it in college??
 
2011-03-29 05:20:02 PM
I don't buy it. There are good teachers, and there are shiatty teachers. The students give you grief about being too demanding, you call them all dumb. This chick sounds like the kind of teach who has control issues and takes it out on the students
 
2011-03-29 05:20:51 PM
Chakka: Because their parents and teachers were pussies and should have

Kicked.
Their.
Asses.


Apparently basic grammar and punctuation

Kicked.
Their.
Asses.
 
2011-03-29 05:21:55 PM
If I don't like a word I just change the definition of it and everything is fish again.
 
2011-03-29 05:22:02 PM
They'd gotten undergraduate degrees; why couldn't they write in sentences?

dunno
 
2011-03-29 05:22:19 PM
On the one hand, the article bemoans "unsubstantiated generalizations" and "ungrounded polemics." On the other hand, the article offers no specifics about what the students did, except to tell us there was "bad behavior," and that "sometimes it was passive-aggressive, but much of it was just plain aggressive"; finally it slips into a lament about the decline of academic standards in general. What is that, if not an unsubstantiated generalization and an ungrounded polemic?
 
2011-03-29 05:22:46 PM
Two sides to every story, etc. The only point I really disagree with is not allowing open computers. Amazingly some students are able to use a computer to take notes/do class work without being sidetracked or using it to cheat.
 
2011-03-29 05:23:07 PM
"We believe that by the duration of the one academic year we will be able compare previous attitudes against those now exhibited are in a positive light."

That was the best sentence I ever saw in a Mass Communication major's paper. By the duration of ten years later, I can remember it exactly. I don't believe the fear will ever truly leave me.
 
2011-03-29 05:23:09 PM
Fark off!
 
2011-03-29 05:23:22 PM
ongbok: Because People in power are Stupid: It's completely unclear what he was teaching. I'm assuming by "sentence" he is some sort of professional grammar nazi. Those types are always upset by others whining about how hard their classes are.

He may not be. At work I get emails all the time from people under 30 with college degrees that can't write in sentences. These emails would be random incoherent thoughts thrown together with random punctuation. Some of them are so bad that I have to reply back to them that I can't understand what it is that they want and to respond back in English. It's said because it's not like these people are just learning English or English is their second language, these are native born Americans and native English speakers. And to be fair I have run into this problem with some of the people in England, in the same age group, that I work with.


I got e-mails like that from folks with graduate degrees at my previous jobs. Hell, we've got a guy at this company with a PhD in mechanical engineering who routinely has to be called because no one can make heads or tails of his gibberish e-mails. No capitalization, no punctuation, mostly fragmented. The guy is 54.

/Designs, prototypes, tests, and oversees the manufacturing of our biggest selling products
//So it's readily forgiven
 
2011-03-29 05:23:50 PM
I am a staff person at a mid-sized state university. I also take classes here, although I'm not pursuing a Master's level course at my own university, specifically because of the reasons outlined in this article. I've seen my own students in action and I know, coupled with the fact that I can get a more prestigious degree from somewhere else. (Granted, it's also very awkward to be sitting in class next to the kid I'm supposed to be advising)
 
2011-03-29 05:24:07 PM
Sawatdee: Why were they accosting me with hostile e-mails when I pointed out unsubstantiated generalizations, hyperbolic assumptions, ungrounded polemics, sourcing omissions, and possible plagiarism?

Did the author just describe Fox News?

Zing!
 
Displayed 50 of 434 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »