I never saw any of this kind of behavior in class growing up. But then again I grew up in Ballard/ Seattle. Not exactly a ghetto, although it was a long time ago.

All I know is that the types of kids they are talking about will get their fare share of detention/suspension when they get out of school. It's going to be a disaster. Please feel free to point out my ignorance by showing me that it already is.

Sim Tree: So the school eliminated all forms of punishment to save money and are surprised at the Lord Of the Flies outcome?

I got a solution for their problem, it's a low cost solution to their discipline problem. Make this guy the detention room coordinator. A kid acts up, they get sent to his detention room. I guarantee the kids will be acting like saints inside a week. Plus he works cheap, all he ask for is booty.

Chariset: I don't have kids, but if I do I hope I can afford to send them to a private school.

I'm not suggesting that people in power know that we are about to be wiped out by a comet or anything, but it really seems like they know something that isn't common knowledge among our society. Why else would they be pulling out on public resources the way they are these days. It just seems like everyone is jumping ship as fast and as hard as they can fark you out of it.

Parents to teachers, "DON'T YOU LAY A HAND ON MY CHILD!"

Teachers get fired.

Parents to child after they(you know they're dropping out)get out of school, "WHERE DID I GO WRONG!"

Here's a good story from a teacher in Arizona with a similar problem. Fark.com said this letter was "fake," but the teacher who wrote it has come forward and stands behind it.

Letter written by a Valley teacher is stirring a heated debate about racism and immigration

Here's another good blog post from a teacher:

"What it's Like to Teach Black Students?"

what an eeeleeet might look like

There should be minimum physical standards for public school teachers. Nobody under 6ft. Then make them lift weights. Those who are still pussies get fired. The rest gets their pay doubled. Newly hired teachers are preferably Marines or ex-cops.

Next, allow corporal punishment. Anything that doesn't do permanent damage and leaves no scars is OK.

I guaranfarkingtee you that you will have perfect discipline and rising performance in no time.

Gaylord Fister: There should be minimum physical standards for public school teachers. Nobody under 6ft. Then make them lift weights. Those who are still pussies get fired. The rest gets their pay doubled. Newly hired teachers are preferably Marines or ex-cops.



"All right you little punks, pick up your freakin' ears, because I'm only gonna say this once. From now on, things are gonna be very, very different around here..."

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

I graduated high school in 1995, and I was on the very back end of corporal punishment. You farked up in class, the teacher put a hand on you, then the principal dealt with you, and when you got home, mom had a go at you. Then dad came home.

What happened to parents raising children and backing the schools up? Some kids only need to be fussed at. Some need to be punished. Some need to not sit comfortably for a day. Every kid's got the point where they'll listen and act right given enough motivation.

/don't shoot kids, though
//unless no one ever tried to instill discipline and they pull a gun on you. Then it's time for the double tap.

Also kids are allegedly bringing drugs, alcohol

Seriously? When did this start? Oh wait, yeah, years and years ago....
Although weapons and bombs in a MIDDLE school would be something to twist up a teacher's panties.

/and twisting a teacher's panties will also do it - had a kid get expelled in our middle school for that
//same teacher, another kid, expelled for snatching her wig off her head (she was 100% bald from cancer treatments or something). She was VERY hot, even with cancer or whatever wrong with her, but sooooo viciously snobbish (because she knew she was a 10.1), it wasn't funny.

Here in the UK a teacher was pushed to the point that he got a 3 pound weight and repeatedly hit a kid in the head shouting "die die die" and got away with it because we can all understand him and why he would want to do that.

I'm pretty much ok with this.

Most teachers at the elementary school level are there for the power trip anyway; I see no problem letting them have a taste of their own medicine.

fark80: Here's a good story from a teacher in Arizona with a similar problem. Fark.com said this letter was "fake," but the teacher who wrote it has come forward and stands behind it.

Letter written by a Valley teacher is stirring a heated debate about racism and immigration

Here's another good blog post from a teacher:

"What it's Like to Teach Black Students?"

It might cheer your little heart to think of cleansing America of brown and black people but having grown up in southern Kentucky I can tell you the exact same problems exist in extremely poor, rural whites only towns.

It ain't a skin color thing, it's a money thing.

/Oh, yeah, I guess you get 5/10 since I bit.

Get a few cops to hang out in classrooms on paid detail.

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: What you said. Kids want to know how far they can go. Tell them the rules and consequences of breaking them, then STICK BY IT. No wavering or inconsistency.

Yes, basically, but there's more to it than that. In a worst-case scenario (which is what this elementary school sounds like), you can easily have too many students actively misbehaving for consistent consequences.

I came into such a classroom (no violence, though, just heavy, deliberate disruption.)

It was a small charter school; lunches were in the classrooms. If it was even slightly cold, recesses were indoors. Which left after-school. Late busses only ran two days a week and were often canceled for one reason or another.

And no fewer than 20 students (two classes) were persistently acting up.

Made for a tough management/discipline situation.

You can put one in the hall for a cool-off. But the one in the hall has just escaped working, so you've unintendedly rewarded him/her for bad behavior.

The one or two at the office, sure, but that's not very effective because now they're at the center of who's coming in and out. More interesting (in their mind) than what they've been doing. I save that for active defiance, dangerous behavior, or temper flare-ups I can't deal with on the spot.

The thing that gets to them the most is isolation and losing out on socializing time. Keep em 'all for recess/after school? Nah, you've just moved the party indoors.

What helped the most is to keep 4 or 5 irritants in at recess, sit 'em in different corners, and one or two is still acting up, add a recess. If a holdout is still acting up, add after-school.

Soon, they're in class all alone.

Do _that_ often enough, and play up the fact that yes, you're going to be picking on people who are irritating you, no it's not fair but you don't care, and to not be one of the people who are getting on your nerves, they'll hold back and let someone else take the heat.

It gradually delays and reduces the acting up until it becomes manageable.

The big thing is to hit them where it hurts: the social time. Many of the more persistent offenders aren't really impressed by anything else.

"Kan-CHO!"

Wiki for Kancho (new window)

Funny, when I was in elementary and middle school, it was standard practice for a teacher to send a disruptive kid to the vice-principal's office for a few swats with a huge wood paddle, then detention or suspension. The parents didn't rush to file a lawsuit either, you usually got punished twice as bad at home and were made to formally apologize to the teacher. Parents took responsibility for their kids back in the 80s, and didn't automatically assume that a big payday lawsuit was to be had when the school meted out a little discipline. We didn't have 6th-graders intimidating teachers and setting off IEDs in the restrooms back then.

/yeah I know, "get off my lawn"

aerojockey: I'm pretty much ok with this.

Most teachers at the elementary school level are there for the power trip anyway; I see no problem letting them have a taste of their own medicine.

Elementary school? Power trip?? Have you ever even met an elementary school teacher???

That's like saying garbage men are all power hungry glory seekers... "Oho, Mr. Rich Guy, look here, I have this can of your belongings and I'm going to dump it into my truck and there's nothing you can do to stop me! Who's the big guy now, huh??"

Do I have to use both index fingers for kancho or just one?

Two fingers reinforce each other, lessening the chance of breaking a finger.

One finger, though, increases the jabbing impact of the kancho.

Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

How can you structure a school system that positively impacts good kids and appropriately disciplining misbehaving kids without ultimately creating a system in which the "good kids" excel and become future leaders while the "bad kids" join the ranks of the unemployed and underemployed and ultimately the criminal classes?

If the appropriate action is to remove a violent child from school, are you not condemning him at a young age to a life of poverty? As many have said, poverty is near the root of this type of behavior, so poor, underclass kids are more likely to end up in a situation where their poverty is reinforced.

I hate to say it, but the change must happen within those communities of poverty, and it cannot be sufficiently or effectively tackled through external means. This means groups such as the Nation of Islam and individuals like Bill Cosby, who force the groups to which they belong to look inwardly for pride in accomplishment and success rather than the empty pride from constant lip service, are the only real way to solve the problems of troubled kids in schools. The grassroots must support the system, and so long as the grassroots are willing to accept misbehavior in their midst, there can be no true solution.

Another possible solution: Just tell the kids to practice their penmanship and retire to the teachers lounge to knock back some scotch. See there? No more bullying. It's not like the teachers are getting paid to teach shiat.

Damian: Do I have to use both index fingers for kancho or just one?

Two fingers reinforce each other, lessening the chance of breaking a finger.

One finger, though, increases the jabbing impact of the kancho.

I am guessing you don't want a clothes rupturing impact...

Unless they plan on emigrating and working for the TSA

The school isn't suspending them because it costs the district money. How about in school suspension where the trouble makers are isolated in an area. They can be patted down for contraband and then placed in individual small rooms, lets call them cells. The teacher monitoring them can wear a special uniform and have a small stick for safety in case they get unruly. Small slots could be in the rooms where a lunch could be placed so they can eat in the area without them threatening the monitors safety. There they can remain during class hours until school is dismissed. Then these students can be released into society until the next day where the in school suspension resumes or they are returned to the general population.

Unavailable for comment.

/hot like a fruit juice soaked first kiss

fisker: I never saw any of this kind of behavior in class growing up. But then again I grew up in Ballard/ Seattle. Not exactly a ghetto, although it was a long time ago.

All I know is that the types of kids they are talking about will get their fare share of detention/suspension when they get out of school. It's going to be a disaster. Please feel free to point out my ignorance by showing me that it already is.

I finished school in '00 and I definitely saw this behaviour more towards the end of my time in school. When I started highschool in 1996 (we had 13 grade back then...) you could fail a class, the teacher could kick you out of a class if you were disruptive, etc.

By time I finished school it was near impossible to fail and the teachers were told to keep you in class as much as possible since students weren't allowed to miss more than 10 classes per semester.

As a result kids became much more disruptive and disobedient. Not so much my peers [my age] but definitely the younger kids. My grade 13 English teacher would come in the afternoon crying because her grade 9 kids would swear/insult/throw things at her all morning long.

I'm not saying they should bring back the strap, but definitely the concept of teaching kids that their actions carry consequences would be nice. Sadly, that lesson has to start at home and many parents aren't interested in teaching that since it's easier just to give in than to be a real parent.

Damian: Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

I graduated high school in 1995, and I was on the very back end of corporal punishment. You farked up in class, the teacher put a hand on you, then the principal dealt with you, and when you got home, mom had a go at you. Then dad came home.

What happened to parents raising children and backing the schools up? Some kids only need to be fussed at. Some need to be punished. Some need to not sit comfortably for a day. Every kid's got the point where they'll listen and act right given enough motivation.

/don't shoot kids, though
//unless no one ever tried to instill discipline and they pull a gun on you. Then it's time for the double tap.

OMG - someone with common sense...I thought they were extinct!

Maybe we need to start putting in hidden cameras and mics in classrooms where these kids are getting totally out of hand. I know from my personal experience, if my parents saw a tape of me acting like a brat and disrespecting my teacher the punishment I would have gotten at home would have greatly exceeded anything they could have done to me at school.

Of course, this will never happen, but oh well. Plus, maybe most parents don't discipline their kids anyway, which is why they're acting up in school in the first place.

At the very least it would provide some entertainment for all those 'teachers caught having sex with student' stories.

miss diminutive:

You sound like you've been a very bad girl ...

/I'm all for spanking that booty

miss diminutive: Maybe we need to start putting in hidden cameras and mics in classrooms where these kids are getting totally out of hand.

That would be invasion of privacy and legally if not morally wrong.

/keep your damn video cameras in your own bedrooms where they belong.
//mirror on the ceiling, pole on the floor (minus the dead guy behind the steering wheel)

What our schools will require unless we do something now: