cryinoutloud: There are 15% grades on some of our streets.

That's what granny gears are for.

In a few years when I get tired of driving this POS Civic (apparently even Honda has some bad days), I'll probably opt for an xB if I can find one. A bit eccentric, but cheap, lots of room, and 28 hwy for driving a box isn't bad.

someahole: Riding a bike in the city is pretty dangerous, it's not so much a matter of if you will get injured as when you will get injured. It's not just the cars, it's the potholes, cobble stones, disused trolley tracks, general poor road conditions, etc. I used to bike around Phily. First took a spill hitting a seam in the road that wasn't very visible, blew a tire, did a face-plant. Second time had to swerve to avoid a car that didn't see me. Tire got stuck in a trolley track, again face-plant. My old roommate in Brooklyn had similar experiences. Got a new bike, wrecked it in a week. The next week he's riding and someone doesn't see him coming and opens their car door right in front of him. His head almost makes it through the window, but his neck got snagged on the edge of the door. He died.

It's shiatty US streets and shiatty US drivers. In Canada and Europe and Asia you don't hear about people telling others not to bike because of these things.

Getting into a car accident sucks, too. People get into head-ons, rollovers, pile-ups, crash into the side of buildings - for some reason that doesn't deter people but cycling does?

kzp7: I wonder how long it will take before people start reaching the staggering levels of stupidity we saw several years ago. The high spot for me was when people were paying $5000-6000 for 90-something Geo Metros on eBay. When you have to spend more on repair than on fuel, you aren't saving money.

That's exactly why my next car will be about as old as I am-37. I can save enough by doing repairs myself to pay for the gas. I can't work on anything made past about 1980.

1998 200sx std 38-40mpg not hypermiling; just driving the speed limit.
didn't cost 30 thousand goddamned dollars, either

cryinoutloud: Lt_Ryan: It's obvious but I'll repeat it here, most people are stupid. They will spend $12,000 more on a car to 'save' gas, never doing the math to realize that @ $3 a gallon 12K a year for 5 years the savings would be $2000. If you want to save money buy a cheap normal car.
Compare the lifetime cost of vehicles before purchase.

Maybe they buy the more gas efficient car because they'd like to do the better thing for the planet and for the U.S. I know, that would never occur to you, would it?

I'd love to ride my bike most places but I live 600 feet above town, and I am not quite that studly. There are 15% grades on some of our streets. Also I won't buy a Subaru with all-wheel drive even with six months of winter. That's six months I don't need all-wheel drive. Where the fark did someone get the idea that we need all-wheel drive all the time?


Well here's my question then. What has a bigger environmental impact. Maintaining a 25 mpg vehicle for 5 more years and paying for gas. Buying a new hybrid car, that while may get better gas mileage up front, also required large amounts of energy in production, shipping, etc.

Not trying to be snarky, just curious if a study was ever done into something like that.

Avoid keeping unnecessary items in your vehicle, especially heavy ones. An extra 100 pounds in your vehicle could reduce your MPG by up to 2 percent. The reduction is based on the percentage of extra weight relative to the vehicle's weight and affects smaller vehicles more than larger ones.

2 percent. So $50-100 a year? Sorry, it's not worth that to have to take things out and put them back in constantly. Our van is always full, and I happily pay $10-20 more a month for the convenience of just getting in and going rather than having to bring everything down with us.

The difference between our van (11.9 L/100KM with my aggressive driving) and a 28 MPG fuel-efficient vehicle is about $70 a month.

Ok. I'll work an extra two hours.

For the cost of a days adventures in the middle east we could upgrade every major city's traffic light system to something smarter.

it's the stop and go that kills things.

Why the hell would I want something more fuel efficient? We've been mucking about in the Middle East for a reason people!

/Lesser car of mine and the girlfriend has 310hp
//Lesser car is mine :(
///Her Charger gets better mileage than her old 2003 4cyl Focus
////CSB
//Slaaaaaaaaaaaaaashies

sarcoleptic_hoosier: * When the weather is cold, buy a damn tarp ($10-$20) from any home supply store. 1 tarp + 4 5lb rocks = No snow on windows in morning
================================================================

While that may seem like a good idea... I had a tarp I suck on top of my snow blower. It's not quite as neat at it looks.

If there's any sort of freezing rain or melting/refreezing, the tarp becomes a gigantic block of ice. And then it becomes almost impossible to move without tearing it to shreds. Not to mention, it ends up weighing a million pounds.

It's really not worth it.

The irony is that in today's world of compacts and hybrids, driving an H2 or F350 is actually more economical. Whenever I'm behind some Toyota or Honda owner in my lifted H3, they gtfo the way. So while my technical mpg might be a little less, I get places much quicker

I want one of these.

Honda = reliable. Good mileage. Decent payload. About $9000.00 (depending on the exchange rate at the moment). Toyota, Suzuki, Daihatsu, Subaru, Piaggio, and others also make similar trucks and vans.

But not available in North America (ok, you can buy one - but they are not 'street legal').

If they would suspend or roll back all the needless smog regulations (especially in my state of Calif) we would be able to have more cars with diesel engines.

We would also be able to get by with smaller size engines and still have the same power. I bought a 2004 Ford Focus sedan, in California it only came with a 2.3L engine to be able to pass smog, outside Calif, a 2.0L engine was offered. The smaller one gave less horsepower, but offered better fuel economy. A choice would have been nice.

/Catherine Obvious
//Victorious FTW

My previous post was sarcasm, but the people advocating cycling as a practical means of transportation is just silly for most Americans.

Hmm. I got a Kia Spectra...with no bells nor whistles. It's 2 years old and has 12,000 miles on it now. My co-workers laugh at it. But it does exactly what I wanted it to do, get me around. I don't need a thumpin' sound system, I don't need power windows or a wi-fi connection, dvd player, spinning rims, or the ability to climb big rocks. I get decent gas mileage and it has a great warranty. Since I bus everywhere but work, it certainly works for me.

iamgoz: Hmm. I got a Kia Spectra...with no bells nor whistles. It's 2 years old and has 12,000 miles on it now. My co-workers laugh at it. But it does exactly what I wanted it to do, get me around. I don't need a thumpin' sound system, I don't need power windows or a wi-fi connection, dvd player, spinning rims, or the ability to climb big rocks. I get decent gas mileage and it has a great warranty. Since I bus everywhere but work, it certainly works for me.

Same here. I purchased a 2007 Toyota Yaris new, and 120,000 miles later it's still running just as well as when I drove it out of the dealership. It's never broken down, never had any issues at all. Great gas mileage, gets me everywhere I need to go.

Those of us without money are happy that their 1987 oldsmobile even starts. Mileage is not a concern.

Sure, it's a steel beast with 19MPG, but no amount of wishes will make a new car affordable.

dforkus: natgab: If they would suspend or roll back all the needless smog regulations (especially in my state of Calif) we would be able to have more cars with diesel engines.

and more smog, European air quality standards, and America's utter dependence on the automobile would not be a good mix

-California always has had the most strict standard in the world, all I am saying is go back to our old standards which are probably still higher than most world standards. Back in the 80s we had more diesel options. Just that about 2-3 years ago, Calif. added some extra sulfur related rules that left only cars like BMW & Mercedes offering diesels because of the expense.

This list fails without bothering to mention the idea of used cars. My 2006 RSX gets 22/31, will never break down since it's a Honda, looks nice, and cost $12k. (Yeah, yeah, I know, CSB...)

under $5,000.00, I average 35mpg

Branniganslaw: cryinoutloud: Lt_Ryan: It's obvious but I'll repeat it here, most people are stupid. They will spend $12,000 more on a car to 'save' gas, never doing the math to realize that @ $3 a gallon 12K a year for 5 years the savings would be $2000. If you want to save money buy a cheap normal car.
Compare the lifetime cost of vehicles before purchase.

Maybe they buy the more gas efficient car because they'd like to do the better thing for the planet and for the U.S. I know, that would never occur to you, would it?

I'd love to ride my bike most places but I live 600 feet above town, and I am not quite that studly. There are 15% grades on some of our streets. Also I won't buy a Subaru with all-wheel drive even with six months of winter. That's six months I don't need all-wheel drive. Where the fark did someone get the idea that we need all-wheel drive all the time?


Well here's my question then. What has a bigger environmental impact. Maintaining a 25 mpg vehicle for 5 more years and paying for gas. Buying a new hybrid car, that while may get better gas mileage up front, also required large amounts of energy in production, shipping, etc.

Not trying to be snarky, just curious if a study was ever done into something like that.

There are quite a few 'total energy' studies for vehicles, that try to assess the total impact of a vehicle. Looking at a vehicle only during the use stage is misleading, compare the raw materials a vehicle is made out of. Look up lead and nickle mines to see what a prius and other hybrids do to the environment.

The downside to many modern materials is they require exotic raw materials which equate to large open pit mines and copious amounts of energy to process into final form.

At $5 a gallon and 100k miles the difference in cost between 25 and 40MPG is $7500.

i want an early[1967-1974] vw beetle

KaiC: /Waiting for the EVs to be well-tested. Should be good to go when my paid off 2003 RAV4 kicks it. Ahh the sound of never having to pay for gasoline again...

Yeah, instead you'll be paying your local electric utility. And depending on how that whole nuke thing works out in Japan, that may wind up costing you more if they wind up having to test/retrofit/find other ways to handle the increased demand people having plug in cars is going to create.

Thats what always cracks me up about people and electric cars-they think they will be able to charge them for free. Nope. You're just not using gasoline, you're trading that for electric.

And seeing what they charge a kWH here in California in August (nevermind the fact they want to institute peak usage billing as well, so when its 115 out and you gotta run the A/C, they will charge you double) I don't know if having an electric car will wind up being cheaper. Besides the fact you'll pay more for one at first, have to pay to have the charging station put in, etc.

You will pay zero to big oil, yes. But your electric bill is going to look different for sure, as well as your car payment since a lot of those electric cars cost twice as much as a fairly fuel economical vehicle.

But keep believing what you want to believe. I don't believe PG&E is going to tell me "oh, you have an electric car, heres 500kWH/month on the house...." yeah right!

I run my 351W powered Bronco on the tears of hippies so I don't worry about MPG.

Damn, I miss my '84 Chevette. She was a little workhorse.

I'm beginning to believe that the only reason Mr. Romero is still employed is because he gets Fark^tmtons of hits to all of his farktarded stories.

I want the one in the video with the 6-speed automatic transition

Hrist: Ral: And that, in a nutshell, is why people bought Chevy Cobalts. Gotta me one of the shiattiest cars on the market next to the Suzuki Forenza.

It's funny because I have a Cobalt and everything has been just perfect on it. I got the base model with manual windows and manual locks. The only 'nice' things it has is air conditioning, a fancy radio (with an aux-in jack), and decent speakers. When all is said and done, it cost me less than $20k.

Oh, I'm not saying it's unreliable. They seem to go forever, honestly. But my experience with them in the rental industry suggests that they are unusually vulnerable to stains, interior damage (scratches that other cars would not show), and a general poor quality of interior materials. They also seem to have a characteristic smell, which while not unpleasant, is not nice either.

Under $30,000 and won't go 150 MPH around a corner?



Do not want!

dear poor people:

get a 80's Chevette/Acadian. Sure they may be slow, RWD, and loud, but they are very very simple and still get 20-30 mpg and there's still plenty around for cheap, between $500 and $1200-ish. cheap insurance too. like $650 a year for a 1987.

also, as someone mentioned: Chevy metro/pontiac firefly. FWD smaller version of the Chevette, gets even better gas mileage. can still find them scooting around the city.

People with no money want cheap cars that get good gas milage. To the Romero-Copter

I believe those are called 'bicycles'.

(new window)

can you say Honda Civic?

sure you can!

I have a 1993 Geo Metro with 147K miles on it that I"d be willing to sell for the right price. The windows don't roll down, the passenger door handle inside is missing, the wipers only work on slow but it gets great gas mileage.

Either some sucker will buy it for $1500+ or it'll be stripped for parts. If the past in any indication, the sucker will come along first.

Oznog: Oddly enough, the Prius and Geo Metro are about the same for mpg.

But, with the money you save on the Geo, you could pretty much pay for most of a house. Not a good house, mind you, but you don't buy a nice house and park a Geo Metro in the driveway anyhow.

My wife had a Chevy Sprint (an older Metro)when we met. It had a 5-speed, 3 cylinder engine in it, and about an 8 gallon tank. I swear the thing got 50+ miles to the gallon at highway speeds. It would cruise at 80mph with no problem on it's 12" tires.

Why don't they just make that friggin' car again? I'd buy it before I bought one of them there SMART cars.

armanox: Alkony: Not my car, but nearly identical.

1995 Saturn SL2. Gets 30 MPG in town, and I've gotten up to 35 highway. I will consider replacing it with a hybrid after they get the MPG on hybrids past that mark.

Bikes are great *IF* they are practical for your climate. Around here, over half the year riding a bike any distance can be a severe health hazard. We regularly top 110*F in the summer (that starts in May and ends some time late September) and get well below freezing in the winter. Heck, the last week we've had hail and downpours nearly every day. Even the southern half of CA has been getting pummeled, and that's an area that usually is bike friendly, weatherwise.
I hear you on the Saturn. Got a 95 SL1, last couple tanks of gas I averaged 36MPG (mostly highway, some rush hour, going from NE Baltimore County almost to DC everyday).

I used to ride a bike in Baghdad, in body armor and a helmet. Keep your trips under five miles, it's not a big deal. You will sweat like a horse, but that's a natural human condition; you get used to it.

/Not saying bikes are perfect replacements for cars; I rarely ride mine in Atlanta because the roads are narrow, the distances long, and the drivers will kill you.

vodka: I run my 351W powered Bronco on the tears of hippies so I don't worry about MPG.

Which doesn't scare anyone, as I'm guessing it spends most days broken down in the driveway.

/former Bronco owner
//biggest POS I've ever had the displeasure of owning.

Tumunga: Why don't they just make that friggin' car again?

Because the American auto consumer tends to be a pussy. They absolutely positively must be swaddled in 2 tons of airbags and unneeded "features" for a car to be considered worthwhile.

I mean, could you imagine getting into an accident in that little 3 cylinder? It'd totally interrupt the texting you were doing, and likely spoil that half eaten cheeseburger that you were resting on your knee.

Also, what would others think of that dinky little motor? Gotta keep up appearances. I don't think it'd roll on 20's either.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Whenever I'm behind some Toyota or Honda owner in my lifted H3, they gtfo the way.

Of course they do.

Be Well: And seeing what they charge a kWH here in California in August (nevermind the fact they want to institute peak usage billing as well, so when its 115 out and you gotta run the A/C, they will charge you double) I don't know if having an electric car will wind up being cheaper. Besides the fact you'll pay more for one at first, have to pay to have the charging station put in, etc.

Not everyone lives in a desert that can't generate enough power for its region.

Of course, an electric car is useless for me because I don't have a garage or even a dedicated parking spot. What am I supposed to do? Run extension cords half a block down the street overnight?

kab: Because the American auto consumer tends to be a pussy. They absolutely positively must be swaddled in 2 tons of airbags and unneeded "features" for a car to be considered worthwhile.

I mean, could you imagine getting into an accident in that little 3 cylinder? It'd totally interrupt the texting you were doing, and likely spoil that half eaten cheeseburger that you were resting on your knee.

it's almost like cash for clunkers deliberately took all such desired cars off the road. almost like obama's policies are a cancer on the country. almost like he's the worst president since james buchanan....

Also, what would others think of that dinky little motor? Gotta keep up appearances. I don't think it'd roll on 20's either.

silly americans, wanting to live!

My 87 Nissan 200SX still gets mid 20's mpg. It looks rough, the stereo is busted, the dash is cracked, but it runs.

proteus_b: kab: Because the American auto consumer tends to be a pussy. They absolutely positively must be swaddled in 2 tons of airbags and unneeded "features" for a car to be considered worthwhile.

I mean, could you imagine getting into an accident in that little 3 cylinder? It'd totally interrupt the texting you were doing, and likely spoil that half eaten cheeseburger that you were resting on your knee.

it's almost like cash for clunkers deliberately took all such desired cars off the road. almost like obama's policies are a cancer on the country. almost like he's the worst president since james buchanan....

Also, what would others think of that dinky little motor? Gotta keep up appearances. I don't think it'd roll on 20's either.

silly americans, wanting to live!

How many wrecks do you people expect to get in? You probably buy polar-bear-attack insurance, too. Airbags are a waste of money and resources; seat belts do about 90 percent of the safety work in a wreck.

/Been in two wrecks, one in a car with no seatbelts; wasn't hurt.
//Lucky.