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(Some Guy)   Three-hundred proofs for the existence of God   (godlessgeeks.com) divider line 701
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26442 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2003 at 7:28 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-08-01 01:42:52 AM
Director_Mr

The constitution is a fairly well based moral piece that Christians like to claim.

Why do morals have to be any different from an atheistic point of view?

Right and Wrong does not disappear with God. No one can prove that God ever layed out what was right or wrong.
 
2003-08-01 01:43:36 AM
2003-08-01 01:33:26 AM Lusso
-Rat brain-powered chip is installed in robotic Real Doll.

would the Real Dolls ACT like rats?

because that might also be annoying....
 
2003-08-01 01:43:38 AM
mm gabbo, i could argue that a monkey or a dog might not find human female breasts very attractive :)

it's attractive because uhm, we are human! if they had a row of teats(which they dont because they generally have 1 kid at a time) i'm sure we'd have found that attractive too :)
 
2003-08-01 01:44:20 AM
Many references to, but no actual quotes of... About damn time we disproved gods existance completely:


"I refuse to prove that I exist!" Says god "For proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing!"

"Ah ha!" Says man "But the babel fish is a dead give away! It proves you exist and therefore you dont by your own argument, QED."

"Oh dear I hadnt thought of that" Says god, who promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh that was easy!" says man, who goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed at the next zebra crossing.



RIP Douglas Adams, we miss you.
 
2003-08-01 01:44:45 AM
Xtreme;

I was using France for fun and you KNOW IT! BUt still, if a lot of people from France are anything, doesn't that just make you want to be something else? Just a little?

LANCE ARMSTRONG ROCKS MY WORLD!
 
2003-08-01 01:44:51 AM
Do you realize that you stumbled on why there have been immoral religious governments when you explained away communism. People use philosophies to control and exert influence throughout history. It doesn't prove the wrongness of the philosophy, just that people manipulate each other.


Stumbled huh?

It also explains why Monarchies have all but failed. Though that does not stop religion from trying does it?

What place does religion have in government really? other than to protect and grow its power.
 
2003-08-01 01:45:21 AM
Christianity's only been around since Christ, and Islam's only been around since Mohammed (ad 900 or so), so at most Islam and Christianity have been "at war" as you say, for 1100 years. I get so tired of that old saw about how religion is responsible for all war. If you run down a list of wars and conquest, religion is responsible for the Crusades and a lot of the Islam/Christianity conflict of the middle ages, but not much more. Wars off the top of my head that were NOT religiously motivate: Babylonian conquests of Mesopotemia, Persian conquests of the near east, Alexander's conquests, Roman conquest of Europe, Mongol and Hun incursions into Europe in the 11th-13th centuries, the Napoleanic wars, the Revolutionary war, the war of 1812, the Spanish/American War, World War One, World War two, the Korean WAr, Vietnam, I'm tired of making my point now.

I'm certainly into religion bashing as much as anyone, but justify an anti-religious position because someone told you Christians started wars and you believed it without checking into it is just as dumb as the people who take some of these "proofs" of god's existence seriously.
 
2003-08-01 01:46:19 AM
Xtreme have you read my earlier posts? My question is this: WHat will be an atheists morals? Articulate them to me.
 
2003-08-01 01:46:19 AM
Director_Mr

For fun, yeah, "explain away" Mr Director. Lance Armstrong is not French and loving him really means nothing when it comes to how you feel about France. Nice try though.
 
2003-08-01 01:47:42 AM
grizzlyjohnson

When the US went to war, it was against the "Godless" Communists. Religion doesn't even require another religion to go to war.
 
2003-08-01 01:48:53 AM
That site was damnably hilarious. Anyone who actually took it serious needs to buy a sense of humor.
 
2003-08-01 01:49:14 AM
would the Real Dolls ACT like rats?

because that might also be annoying....


They might act out the artistic impulses that rats have, which could be annoying. But remember that this would be the infancy of the intelligent sex doll era.
 
2003-08-01 01:49:17 AM
Xtremehkr,

Methinks you are taking this just a little to seriously. Are you willing to debate and consider other viewpoints? If you are, tell me what are an atheist's morals? Based on what do they hold those morals?

Director_mr
 
2003-08-01 01:49:24 AM
Director_Mr

I really don't need to explain anything to you.

If you don't understand what I mean when I say "I do not believe that morals require religious belief" than it is beyond me.

Why don't you explain to me why you think Atheists cannot have morals?
 
2003-08-01 01:51:49 AM
This one isn't mine, got it from a posting on totse.com but I thought it was well said...

"My aunt encoraged me to read the bible because she wants me to become a christian. So, one day, I opened this bible and looked down to see the 10 commandments.

The first Commandment is thy shalt not have any other gods before me.

His explanation for this is that he is a "jealous" god.

In being Jealous, god himself would have the commandment Thy shalt not covet.

Also, envy is one of the 7 deadly sins. So god himself is a sinner. Therefore god isn't perfect and omnipotent.

Talk amoungst yourselves."
 
2003-08-01 01:52:04 AM
Director_Mr

How serious should I be taking this? according to you?

I find it funny that you continue to gloss over a lot of what has been said in order to find a niche to exploit. I mean, this must be so easy for someone divinely connected to one with all the answers.
 
2003-08-01 01:52:20 AM
I have already explained it earlier. Morals require an objective standard. If you are an atheist, there can be no objective standard. AT best you can only have preferences. I prefer there be no murder, I prefer there be no rape or stealing. You have no way of callin any of those behaviors wrong.

Of course you don't want to explain anything to me. you rather mock whats said and act like thats intelligent.

There now I am angry bitterman-poster. Now tell me what are an atheist's morals?
 
2003-08-01 01:53:34 AM
what about SCOTT ADAMS?
 
2003-08-01 01:53:53 AM
director_mr: you're trying to force an impossibility?
someone following a religion and abiding by it's morals, vs the rest of us who dont have a religion?

uh, you'd need a common ground for all atheists, which there isnt, some may adopt christian morals, others from laws and yet others from their own experiences(_everyone_ will to a certain degree adopt morals from their own experiences).
 
2003-08-01 01:55:21 AM
or is that what you've been arguing and i've misunderstood? :)
 
2003-08-01 01:56:29 AM
Varulv,

That is my point. If you are going to be an atheist, you have to reject the idea of morals. That is all. I'm not saying that proves or disproves anything... Its just fun to say because atheists get all pissed off when I say it.

That very point makes most people really agnostics, because they don't like the idea of rejecting morality
 
2003-08-01 01:56:40 AM
Director_Mr

Right, as an Atheist I have no desire to be a good person, an honorable person. I have no psyche that would motivate me to be apart of anything or have any kind of social acceptance what so ever would I?

As an Atheist I could not possible be a good samaritan or just an amiable guy because there is no promise of heaven.

It's just unfathonable how anyone could want to be anything other than pure evil because they have no reason to believe that there is no good reason not to be is there?

Atheists must be evil because there is no hell to scare them.

Sound logic.
 
2003-08-01 01:57:14 AM
>If you are, tell me what are an atheist's morals?

Atheists, as a group, do not adhere to any doctrines or texts or commons set of beliefs. Different atheists, just like different theists, arrive at there personal morals and ethics through many different routes.

>Based on what do they hold those morals?

Humans as a social species require a set of community "rules" to be followed in order to survive. These basic "rules" will be manipulated by the culture which develops around them. You can try reading Robert Wright's _The Moral Animal_ or Frans de Waal's _Good Natured_ or Richard Alexander's _The Biology of Moral Systems_ to understand the biological basis for what we term morality.
 
2003-08-01 01:57:26 AM
Varulv has read my earlier posts no apparently :) ;)
 
2003-08-01 01:57:37 AM
You athiests have a pathetically narrow idea of what "God" is, mostly because you've been raised in the north american christian culture. You act as if God must be like a human being: wants, desires, etc.

Refuting the God's Rock problem:

God is greater than expression in any one physical thing, since physical things have flaws and God does not. So 'God' Herself cannot pick up a rock, but an avatar He has created easily can.

To capture the true essence of something in a physical object is impossible, hence Plato's infamous shadows on the cave walls. Each horse we see is a 'piece' of the Ultimate Horse. Any rock we see is apiece of the Ultimate Rock. The avatar God creates to pick up this rock would be a piece of the Ultimate Avatar.

'God' i sthe sum total of all these Ultimate Whatevers. Hence: God is omnipotent, yet limited.

That stupid 'God cannot make a rock so heavy He cannot pick it up' aguement is pathetic.
 
2003-08-01 01:58:06 AM
I think you're missing the point, Mr Director Mr. People shouldn't commit murder because if you kill someone they're farking dead forever. There's no BS cover explanation to the kiddies that the murdered victim was "called by god." It's wrong to kill someone because if you do they're farking dead forever and you took their chance to have a meaningful life. Why does there have to be a magic dragon punisher guy in the sky to give someone's like meaning?
 
2003-08-01 01:58:11 AM
call me an agnostic then :)

bah, so many words to explain and argue such a simple concept, you're brilliant.
 
2003-08-01 01:58:21 AM
Maybe I should emulate christians and tell people I am christian so that they HAVE to believe that I am wonderful because I said I am christian.

Uh huh.
 
2003-08-01 01:58:47 AM
There are hurricane force winds in here from that page flying over people's heads.
 
2003-08-01 01:59:48 AM
lastdinosaur

ever noticed that God can morph into whatever is needed to make you believe in him?
 
2003-08-01 02:01:02 AM
like = life
 
2003-08-01 02:01:17 AM
xtremehkr,

Please understand. I don't hate atheists. I really don't I'm not REALLY saying this to piss you off, I just want you to understand what atheists truly believe when they are atheists. read what ediacara wrote.

When you claim to be an atheist, and complain about hipocracy or past injustices, or point out immorality, you are arguing something which you cannot believe in or apply to yourself. Don't be an atheist and claim to be a moral person.

DOes that make you an evil person who is going to kill everyone? NO! But you are being every bit the hypocrate the person who goes to church and then does bad things is. You are being inconsistent.

That is all I'm trying to say
 
2003-08-01 02:01:25 AM
I said it before, this is like watching my cat chase her tail. In the end it's the believers who come to sites where the majority are non believers to prove soemthing that no one cares about beyond the fact that it is so hard to escape.
 
2003-08-01 02:02:54 AM
Xtremehkr: Your definition of God may change, but God Herself does not.

God is like a jewel with an infinite number of facets: if you look at the Christian facet of God, you will see the Christian facet. If you look at the Taoist facet, you will see taht 'side' of God.

God does not morph into anything new... you are simply changing your perception.

Saying that is like saying "ever notice how the entire world chnges when I put on new sunglasses?"

You're just changing your lens colour fom Christian to Islamic to Taoist to Whatever.
 
2003-08-01 02:06:40 AM
I agree with you on this point, Director_Mr. It is impossible to be a moral person and an athiest.

Morals come from standards not imposed by human beings. If there is nothing greater than a huamn being, then there are no moral absolutes. If everything is not 'absolute' but instead 'relative', then there is no basis for absolute judgement.
 
2003-08-01 02:07:17 AM
Poor Xtremehkr,

He is being unfairly beaten up on and being forced to become a Christian because I dare debate on a site he claims is mostly non-Christian. I am sorry you can't handle the debate! Maybe we'll all say GOD SUCKS and leave you alone so you can go play Dungeons and dragons with your star trek buddies and go L337 haxors hacking computers for fun.

/troll
/flamebaiting the thread
 
2003-08-01 02:08:23 AM
...hey. I'm not Christian. I'm not trying to make ANYONE Christian here. I'm not trying to 'beat up' anyone, either. I'm just pointing ut a few fallacies.
 
2003-08-01 02:08:39 AM
When you claim to be an atheist, and complain about hipocracy or past injustices, or point out immorality, you are arguing something which you cannot believe in or apply to yourself. Don't be an atheist and claim to be a moral person.

You can claim to be a moral person when compared to the morals of your community. Christians from 100, 200, 300, etc years ago would be considered immoral by many of today's standards. Similarly, Christians of the past would be appalled by modern behavior.

Personally, I will defend as moral those standards that, when applied to an entire group, would maximize the "happiness" of the group. As a definition, morals can only be defined as a standard that all members of the group are going to adhere.
 
2003-08-01 02:08:41 AM
lastdinasour,

I have disagreements with your philosophy too. Would it be fun to debate them, or should we beat up on xtremehkr some more?

HAVING FUN TYPING AWAY!
 
2003-08-01 02:09:17 AM
>>

ok, when you're someone who believes in delusional fairy tales about virgin births and happy floating god-men, then you're denying science.
 
2003-08-01 02:09:37 AM
being omnipotent doesnt mean you HAVE to do things, merely that you can.

anyway, if we're to have faith and zero proof, how did the bible come to be? the people around jesus 2k years ago had actual proof according to the bible, water to wine anyone? healing? 1 bread to feed a boatload of people?), the prophets would themselves have actual proof of gods existence, ergo they wouldnt have had faith, they would have had knowledge, so why would we know have to base it on faith when they had knowledge? god moves in mysterious ways?

uh, ok i was actually writing something completely different, but this seemed mucho more clever :)
 
2003-08-01 02:10:39 AM
Dammit, you can't edit your comments here. So I'll just tack this on to the end:

I don't like the modern form of Christianity. I think it's an inefficient, outdated, corrupt money-machine.

HOWEVER.

God and God's followers are two completely different things. I don't care if all "christians" drank baby blood and farked three year olds with spiked metal pile-drivers. I woudl still believe in God and still worship God.
 
2003-08-01 02:10:49 AM
When you claim to be an atheist, and complain about hipocracy or past injustices, or point out immorality, you are arguing something which you cannot believe in or apply to yourself.

Where am I required to be amoral if I'm atheist? Here's a news flash: not all ethical and moral systems require a god. The ones that do are just as subjective as the ones that don't. I'll go with the ones that have a better track record (i.e. ones that don't excuse wars and killings in the name of said god).
 
2003-08-01 02:11:09 AM
Why do atheists say that Christians are hypocrites? This honestly confuses me. Part of the mass is admitting that you require forgiveness and that you sin. No Christian in their right mind thinks that Christians are not sinners like everyone else. So why do they get accused of hypocracy? If Christians walked around going "hey you, be perfect like us" to people, then there would be hypocracy... but as it is, walking into mass as a sinner just makes you normal.
 
2003-08-01 02:11:11 AM
EDIACARA!

I LOVE YOU! NO really! I DO!

Are you really an atheist. You are the first person who really sounds like one. I'm sorry I've been harsh on people, but Agnostics who claim to be atheists tick me off a little. It just strikes me to be like a person who claims to be a Christian, but only goes to church once a year and never reads the Bible.

Director_mr
 
2003-08-01 02:15:23 AM
Beer151

ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

Hard to argue with this one.


Bah, I refuted that in my 9:56 post.
 
2003-08-01 02:15:31 AM
Read through. Wasn't a good boy. Didn't go to bed. Decided to pose some questions for the thread.

Can you have morals without moral absolutes?

If, as a relativist, you have preferences, can you call these preferences your morals?

For the second one, ask yourself, what is the definition of a moral.

Not being pretentious, not acting like I'm clever or all-knowing, just posing some questions for a lively thread.
 
2003-08-01 02:16:35 AM
bah i argued that too, just different wording.
morals are simply what your society tells you it is, and since noone has excactly the same morals on everything, it is practically a nullconcept to argue that something is moral or not.
 
2003-08-01 02:17:02 AM
Varulv

The Bible never claims you should have faith with ZERO thinking.. Nor are the miracles in the Bible contradictions of Science. They would technically be outside of science instead. Based on the idea that God is the creator of the laws of the universe, and not subject to them. AS such he is free to intervene and change circumstances as he wills not obeying the rules of nature. Much like a computer programmer creates a program, but still can intervene and alter the workings of said program at his will.

Anyway Faith is important because without it, you have no way to believe facts. Not that the pharisees in the Bible should have accepted Jesus as God's messenger, but did not even thougth they knew the Bible better than anyone, they just had no Faith in God.
 
2003-08-01 02:18:25 AM
1. I am having sex
2. Sex partner yells out "Oh, my God!"
3. I am God
 
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