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(Some Guy)   Earthquake-prone San Francisco has never seismically tested its subway tunnels   (sfexaminer.com) divider line 64
    More: Fail, Muni, San Francisco, Market Street, transit district, San Francisco State University, rail lines, tunnels, BART  
•       •       •

4504 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2011 at 1:38 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



64 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2011-03-18 12:11:38 PM  
Ohoh... didnt someone predicted a earthquake in California soon?
 
2011-03-18 12:29:17 PM  
Well sure, I mean how would they test'em?

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-03-18 01:28:35 PM  
Hi, subby, I thought you should know that Muni isn't the only subway out here. BART is the big boy and they have certainly tested their tunnels. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good sensationalist headline though.
 
2011-03-18 01:38:21 PM  
BART has tested the tunnels.

Hell, the tunnels were there for the 1989 quake.
 
2011-03-18 01:39:42 PM  
Oh Muni?

Eh, bigger-fish to worry about than them.
 
2011-03-18 01:41:33 PM  

netweavr: BART has tested the tunnels.

Hell, the tunnels were there for the 1989 quake.


came here to say this.
 
2011-03-18 01:43:15 PM  
The tidal waves of shiat that the exploding antiquated sewer system will release will probably result in even more horrible carnage than crumbling subway tunnels.
 
2011-03-18 01:43:29 PM  
What are you talking about? They were field tested during the last big quake.

/Moran
 
2011-03-18 01:43:57 PM  
Prone, like, every 80 years or so prone?
 
2011-03-18 01:44:36 PM  

otherginger: The tidal waves of shiat that the exploding antiquated sewer system will release will probably result in even more horrible carnage than crumbling subway tunnels.


Feces Tsunami!
 
2011-03-18 01:45:21 PM  
FTA:

When BART officials studied the seismic vulnerability of its tunnels last decade - tunnels built to a more rigorous standard than Muni's older tunnels - the results were surprising.

"We believed our system was really rock-solid; it performed beautifully well during Loma Prieta," BART spokeswoman Molly McArthur said. But viewed "through the lens of the modern code structure," inspectors found some $1.1 billion worth of seismic vulnerabilities.
 
2011-03-18 01:50:08 PM  

AcneVulgaris: Feces Tsunami!


It's called a "poonami". Not to be confused with poonanny.
 
2011-03-18 01:52:11 PM  
But look at this $3 million missile!
 
2011-03-18 01:52:38 PM  

Goldstein: AcneVulgaris: Feces Tsunami!

It's called a "poonami". Not to be confused with poonanny.


Not to be confused with a whorenado.
 
2011-03-18 01:54:12 PM  
Here's how they test them in Los Angeles:

i53.tinypic.com


405-Pound Sumo Wrestler Aims to Run LA Marathon (new window)
 
2011-03-18 01:54:37 PM  
My friend's father lost all his personal records in the San Francisco earthquake and fire. My friend lost all his personal records in the Katrina flood. Why, yes, we're all old or dead.
 
2011-03-18 01:56:32 PM  
There is a much nastier problem in SF...

NSFW Link
 
2011-03-18 01:56:52 PM  
The poor maintenance is probably more of a danger than earthquakes - subway tunnels generally do pretty well in earthquakes, possibly because they move with the ground (or something, I'm no engineer).

Anyway, in the big Mexico City quake, they were able to use the subway tunnels to move personnel and equipment around in places where the surface was impassable.
 
2011-03-18 01:56:58 PM  
The underground tunnels aren't so much at risk.

The elevated BART viaducts, however... (new window)
 
2011-03-18 01:57:00 PM  
Eh that's nothing.

I wonder if they ever tested the old sewer lines that are still in use in downtown SanFran. Those tunnels are well over a hundred years old and are only held together with bricks and mud that is slapped on by the workers. Imagine if a really good quake hit there and crack or collapse those tunnels real good and well imagine the resulting smell.

Look at the first episode of Dirty Jobs. You'll know what I mean.
 
2011-03-18 02:00:20 PM  
but that would be wasteful, big-government-spending soshalizm
 
2011-03-18 02:01:11 PM  
San fran doesn't have a subway, it has a lightrail/streetcar system that goes underground.
closest thing is bart but that is for the entire bay area so it technically also doesn't count because it is a commuter rail not subway.
 
2011-03-18 02:01:26 PM  
Oh yuck, I hate that this is relevant to me. I ride the N-Judah every day to work. Though it's such a horrid train that I imagine that I wouldn't much notice the service effects from a massive, tunnel-crushing earthquake.

/Posted this on SFist the other day, but bears repeating. I left my house a few weeks ago at the same time my husband boarded an aircraft at San Francisco Airport. He arrived in San Diego before my train had completed its three-mile journey to downtown San Francisco.
 
2011-03-18 02:01:34 PM  

Lonestar: Ohoh... didnt someone predicted a earthquake in California soon?


The guy who predicted the Loma Prieta quake is predicting another major earthquake in California within the next week. (new window)



/lives in SF
//really should put an EQ preparedness kit together just in case...
 
2011-03-18 02:04:32 PM  
Man, does everyone hate the N-Judah? And to think I'd thought Muni was improved since they stopped giving out bonuses to bus drivers who kill pedestrians.
 
2011-03-18 02:04:49 PM  
Maybe it might have something to do with the fact that "conservatives" consider any inspection, upgrade or non-emergency repairs to any civil facility or utility to be a waste of taxpayers money?

After all, we can't support a bankers $10-$100 million annual salary and bonuses if we spend all that money on stupid shiat like that now, can we?
 
2011-03-18 02:06:55 PM  

Deathfrogg: Maybe it might have something to do with the fact that "conservatives" consider any inspection, upgrade or non-emergency repairs to any civil facility or utility to be a waste of taxpayers money?

After all, we can't support a bankers $10-$100 million annual salary and bonuses if we spend all that money on stupid shiat like that now, can we?


Obviously it's all those damn conservative Politicians in San Francisco.
 
2011-03-18 02:06:55 PM  

Spanky Ham: FTA:

When BART officials studied the seismic vulnerability of its tunnels last decade - tunnels built to a more rigorous standard than Muni's older tunnels - the results were surprising.

"We believed our system was really rock-solid; it performed beautifully well during Loma Prieta," BART spokeswoman Molly McArthur said. But viewed "through the lens of the modern code structure," inspectors found some $1.1 billion worth of seismic vulnerabilities.


You see, the difference here is that BART actually checked, tallied up the damage, and got to work on repairing and reinforcing. MUNI, as usual, kept saying 'we're working on it' until everyone's attention was elsewhere and let the matter drop. MUNI doesn't care if the tunnels are good or not; it's a transit agency run with all the passion of Apathetic Ren.

Example: a MUNI driver notices that the brakes on the F-Line train he's running are not quite working properly. He calls Maintenance and puts the train out of service on the end of the run. The Supervisor hears this, says 'meh, the brakes are good', and cancels the out of service order. On the next driver shift, the brakes on the train fail and the train rear-ends an SUV, causing some serious injuries to the occupants of the car. MUNI covers it up and lets the insurance handle it. I know about it because I know a couple of MUNI drivers. The drivers that care soon leave for other local agencies. You think New York bus drivers have a bad rep? I'd be willing to bet cash that MUNI drivers are across the board worse than those in any other major city transit agency.

MUNI needs to be completely overhauled. The head of MUNI recently spouted off that an NTSB investigation of their operating procedures was fear-mongering. It's not fear-mongering when a light rail car actually manages to cut off an ambulance with sirens blaring, causing the ambulance to stop while the rail car completes it's turn.
 
2011-03-18 02:07:48 PM  
Live in SF. EQ preparedness kit is done: whiskey, vodka, several bottles of italian wines, some zins.
 
2011-03-18 02:10:13 PM  

Deathfrogg: Maybe it might have something to do with the fact that "conservatives" consider any inspection, upgrade or non-emergency repairs to any civil facility or utility to be a waste of taxpayers money?

After all, we can't support a bankers $10-$100 million annual salary and bonuses if we spend all that money on stupid shiat like that now, can we?


===

Because we all know Conservatives control California and San Francisco.
 
2011-03-18 02:10:34 PM  
How, exactly, do you seismically test a tunnel? Dig it up and put it on a shake table?
 
2011-03-18 02:11:02 PM  
Actually simulations of the effects of an earthquake on San Fransisco's subway tunnels have been conducted with regularity for quite some time now.

www.thestudiotour.com
 
2011-03-18 02:11:32 PM  

GladGirl: I left my house a few weeks ago at the same time my husband boarded an aircraft at San Francisco Airport. He arrived in San Diego before my train had completed its three-mile journey to downtown San Francisco.


Wow, that's crazy. Whereabouts did you board/disembark? I was thinking maybe if it was Ocean Beach to Embarcadero, but that's more than three miles...

/used to ride the M to SFSU weekly.
//that sucked too.
 
2011-03-18 02:12:39 PM  

cannotsuggestaname: Hi, subby, I thought you should know that Muni isn't the only subway out here. BART is the big boy and they have certainly tested their tunnels. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good sensationalist headline though.


You might want to go back and re-read the article regarding BART.

/not submitter
 
2011-03-18 02:15:20 PM  
Subby needs a clue -- I remember taking part in a test years ago at their test facilities just outside Orlando...

i260.photobucket.com
 
2011-03-18 02:17:26 PM  

Heamer: cannotsuggestaname: Hi, subby, I thought you should know that Muni isn't the only subway out here. BART is the big boy and they have certainly tested their tunnels. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good sensationalist headline though.

You might want to go back and re-read the article regarding BART.

/not submitter


Here's the difference.

BART inspects and maintains/repairs.

Muni complains about inspections and shreds the findings.
 
2011-03-18 02:17:48 PM  
<Shaking small fist at Mr. Ballse>
 
2011-03-18 02:19:49 PM  

Cap'n Crunch Harkness: GladGirl: I left my house a few weeks ago at the same time my husband boarded an aircraft at San Francisco Airport. He arrived in San Diego before my train had completed its three-mile journey to downtown San Francisco.

Wow, that's crazy. Whereabouts did you board/disembark? I was thinking maybe if it was Ocean Beach to Embarcadero, but that's more than three miles...

/used to ride the M to SFSU weekly.
//that sucked too.


Actually, it's closer to 2 miles than 3. Just Duboce Park to Montgomery Station. Seriously, that's it. The 25% of the time Muni's working, it should be a 10-minute ride. But that day was one of those horrible stuck-in-the-tunnel-in-a-traffic-jam days, with no possible escape, where you gradually begin to understand the merits of self-immolation.
 
2011-03-18 02:22:44 PM  

netweavr: Heamer: cannotsuggestaname: Hi, subby, I thought you should know that Muni isn't the only subway out here. BART is the big boy and they have certainly tested their tunnels. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good sensationalist headline though.

You might want to go back and re-read the article regarding BART.

/not submitter

Here's the difference.

BART inspects and maintains/repairs.

Muni complains about inspections and shreds the findings.


And my friends wonder why I rarely take the bus in San Francisco. I take BART every day though, so I suppose I'm taking just as much of a risk. Just to increase my chances of survival, maybe I should watch Stallone's "Daylight" a few more times.
 
2011-03-18 02:27:12 PM  

GladGirl: Actually, it's closer to 2 miles than 3. Just Duboce Park to Montgomery Station. Seriously, that's it. The 25% of the time Muni's working, it should be a 10-minute ride. But that day was one of those horrible stuck-in-the-tunnel-in-a-traffic-jam days, with no possible escape, where you gradually begin to understand the merits of self-immolation.


Ahh yes, I seem to remember a few weeks back seeing an N train stuck at Duboce, like indefinitely, with passengers pouring out to take shuttles and head over to Church St Station and whatnot - you must've got caught up in that nonsense. My sympathies.

Nothing's worse than being stuck in the underground sections of Muni, especially (to bring this back on topic) with the specter of earthquakes looming...

/but it's not like the buses are a better option
 
2011-03-18 02:27:25 PM  

Goldstein: It's called a "poonami". Not to be confused with poonanny.


In the late nineties I once got caught in an poonanny.

huh? ...what were talking about?
 
2011-03-18 02:45:52 PM  
The 89 quake was a drop in the bucket compared to the 1906 quake., Muni, bart, whatever, they are all going to crap out.
 
2011-03-18 02:51:08 PM  

netweavr: BART has tested the tunnels.

Hell, the tunnels were there for the 1989 quake.


You didn't even read the first paragraph of the article, did you?

FTFA: Internal documents show two of the oldest Muni tunnels are riven with cracks, leaks and corrosion, but a spokesman said the transit agency has never seismically inspected them - even following the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.
 
2011-03-18 02:51:31 PM  

GladGirl: Oh yuck, I hate that this is relevant to me. I ride the N-Judah every day to work. Though it's such a horrid train that I imagine that I wouldn't much notice the service effects from a massive, tunnel-crushing earthquake.

/Posted this on SFist the other day, but bears repeating. I left my house a few weeks ago at the same time my husband boarded an aircraft at San Francisco Airport. He arrived in San Diego before my train had completed its three-mile journey to downtown San Francisco.


HA! I used to ride the N to downtown. It took me roughly 54 minutes from out at 39th down to the Market station. I then went to work in Fairfield and that commute took 50 minutes from the Outer Sunset... so in other words it took less time to drive 54 miles to another city than it did to go three(ish) miles in the same city.

Yay for modern public transportation?


Heamer: cannotsuggestaname: Hi, subby, I thought you should know that Muni isn't the only subway out here. BART is the big boy and they have certainly tested their tunnels. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good sensationalist headline though.

You might want to go back and re-read the article regarding BART.

/not submitter


I did, do you want me to highlight the part where it said BART had seismically tested their tunnels? If you note I was talking about the headline that subby created, not the article that was linked. Thanks for playing "Reading Comprehension FTW".
 
2011-03-18 02:51:40 PM  

the_immoral_minority: The 89 quake was a drop in the bucket compared to the 1906 quake., Muni, bart, whatever, they are all going to crap out.


Well good. Then they can just build ANOTHER Bay bridge....assuming there is someplace for it to land on the west side...
 
2011-03-18 03:08:28 PM  
In SF, thats a waste of money, everyone knows what will happen, inspect, repair or not.
Really hoping Seattle does not try the underground fad.

They'get it built just in time to have it destroyed in a quake, and the slot cut under downtown hill would ensure a landslide of a few feet, which is all it takes to ruin downtown bldgs.
It does not increase real estate or ease traffic, it smells like bacon.
 
2011-03-18 03:31:46 PM  
Doesn't the test involve your mom?
 
2011-03-18 03:32:48 PM  

netweavr: BART has tested the tunnels.

Hell, the tunnels were there for the 1989 quake.


Can't they arrange another quake so they can test the Muni tunnels?
 
2011-03-18 03:58:24 PM  
FTA: saying the agency plans to invest about $1 million

That will buy you a crappy trailer home in San Francisco, at best.
 
2011-03-18 04:00:12 PM  

MrEricSir: netweavr: BART has tested the tunnels.

Hell, the tunnels were there for the 1989 quake.

You didn't even read the first paragraph of the article, did you?

FTFA: Internal documents show two of the oldest Muni tunnels are riven with cracks, leaks and corrosion, but a spokesman said the transit agency has never seismically inspected them - even following the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.


You obviously don't understand that BART and Muni are two completely different entities. They may share 4 (or is it 6?) stations, but the tunnels are completely separate and the agencies are completely different. Good jorb on calling someone out about reading an article though, so I guess you have that going for you.

In case you can't be bothered to read the article to you lambaste others for not reading I will go ahead and point out the pertinent part for you:

BART and Caltrans "have found it important" to seismically inspect their older tunnels, Hashash said.

When BART officials studied the seismic vulnerability of its tunnels last decade...
 
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