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(Al Jazeera) NewsFlash Let slip the frogs of war   (english.aljazeera.net) divider line 673
    More: NewsFlash, Muammar Gaddafi, Benghazi, Libyan, U.N. Security Council, Libyan leader, peacekeepings  
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35871 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2011 at 7:37 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2011-03-17 09:41:00 PM  
Great, now they can assist in the grasping of defeat from the jaws of defeat. Where was this about a week ago?
 
2011-03-17 09:41:11 PM  
GaryPDX: That, in itself, is a frightening reality..lol. I thought I would never see such words strung together again.:) I have 4 words of encouragement for our dear French brothers and sisters, "don't f*ck it up".

/intriguing


They probably have a very good air force. Their jets were once as good as anyone else's in the world. Not sure about now, but I'd wager they don't suck.

They'll do fine. But it will be interesting. They'll have our help though, that's for sure.
 
2011-03-17 09:41:46 PM  
eraser8: GaryPDX: How about UN Charter?

How about that's the first treaty I mentioned. Read my post again and get back to me.


Key word "required", in your examples. These boys in uniform are more concerned with the word "authorized*. The world has a hard-on to end Gaddafi.
 
2011-03-17 09:43:21 PM  
MentalMoment: Guernica as opposed to the Holocaust for example?

I think Guernica is an example of what happens when outside forces impress themselves upon another country's civil war.
 
2011-03-17 09:43:41 PM  
Apparently the Egyptians are giving the Libyan rebel groups weapons. At this point, best thing for anyone to do is just keep an eye on the skies and let things go on the ground for a while.
 
2011-03-17 09:44:34 PM  
The Voice of Doom: ne2d
Isildur
little help?
/"Throwing away unfetchable URL http://www.fark.com/comments/6041629/67688356%23c67688356: 500 Can't connect to www.fark.com:80 (connect: Invalid argument)" Wtf-- Fark just found itself unfetchable

Yeah that just happened to me too. Plus TF is down and we're stuck out here in literland.

What are you trying to do that you get that error?
Use the quote button?


Yeah, silly me, huh?


The Voice of Doom: Anyway, if you replace the "%23" between thread- and comment-ID with a "#" in the above URL, the URL should be "fetchable" again.

I didn't put the %23 there. The system itself is automatically escaping the pound after the form is submitted. Or did you not notice, when you, too, to failed to link to the post to which you were replying. But please, continue being snide and smug, it's ever so witty and charming.
 
2011-03-17 09:44:52 PM  
Looks like Qaddafi has decided that now would be a good time to ask the rebels to peacefully lay down their arms rather then fight it out in Benghazi.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/After-pounding-rebel-hub - Gaddafi-calls-for-truce-as-UN-action-looms/articleshow/7732877.cms

I'm sure they trust him to keep his word about sorting it out peacefully.
 
2011-03-17 09:45:16 PM  
cryinoutloud: Rashnu: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier:
I'm not an isolationist...
The best case is to actually develop our own energy so that part of the world can suck it and lose their serious leverage over the West.
Sooo, you're an isolationist? Me too!.

Is that what that means? Well, I guess I'm one too then. But right at the moment, we've decided to help these guys out.


Agreed on the helping hand, and I'm okay with that in its current likely incarnation.
 
2011-03-17 09:45:42 PM  
We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm
 
2011-03-17 09:46:24 PM  
Marine1: You do realize the disco was bombed first, right?

Yes. And, you do realize that the bombing of Pan Am 103 happened in consequence of the bombing of Tripoli?

Hell, if we take your logic to enough length, maybe we should have bombed Italy. They really fired the first shot in their colonization of Libya.
 
2011-03-17 09:47:04 PM  
Yeah, I'm getting the unfetchable URL thing also, I just go on. It may be because I'm quoting a TFer, and TF is down so the URL does not work.
 
2011-03-17 09:48:31 PM  
Shock and awe II:Electric boogaloo?
 
2011-03-17 09:48:43 PM  
Snarcoleptic_Hoosier
Which is my fear. The Gulf War left a dictator in power who killed civilians and was dealt with a decade later by a "bomb first, think later" mentality. I don't trust the current administration any more than the previous one.

Comparisons to the Iraq wars are fine, but there are a couple of differences, namely that in this case the purpose is clear (oust Gaddafi), there's no mandate for ground forces, and there's already an existing force ready to replace the old regime (so, no sticking around for years trying to figure out an exit strategy).


eraser8
Suppressing an insurrection is qualitatively different from ethnic cleansing.

Given the tribal nature of this particular insurrection, that's probably not accurate.


shower_in_my_socks
WHAT IS THE F*CKING MISSION?

Provide cover for rebel ground forces.

WHAT IS THE GOAL?

Gaddafi's head on a pole and placed above the gates to Tripoli as a warning.

WHAT IS THE BENCHMARK FOR DECLARING THIS OPERATION COMPLETED?

Rebels in control of Libyan territory, all Gaddafi supporters stand down.

At least, those should be the obvious answers.
 
2011-03-17 09:48:48 PM  
gamepolice: We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm


You don't read articles much, do you?

The UN basically said "no offensive troops on the ground". Air only.
 
2011-03-17 09:49:00 PM  
GaryPDX: These boys in uniform are more concerned with the word "authorized*.

Yes, it was authorized by the UN. I still don't think the US should be involved.
 
2011-03-17 09:49:34 PM  
wee weee!

www.wingweb.co.uk
 
2011-03-17 09:50:25 PM  
pope183: Great book.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:12 PM  
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Qkwaddafie has chosen not to recognize the resolution? It isn't worth the parchment it's calligraphied on.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:28 PM  
Kar98: "Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

"Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

What happened you, Germany? You used to be cool :/


The German people lost their collective backbones when they lost WW2. They're cowards now.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:54 PM  
RanDomino: Given the tribal nature of this particular insurrection, that's probably not accurate.

The rebels rose up after the examples of Tunisia and Egypt. That's when the fighting began. This is a suppression action.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:57 PM  
eraser8: Marine1: You do realize the disco was bombed first, right?

Yes. And, you do realize that the bombing of Pan Am 103 happened in consequence of the bombing of Tripoli?

Hell, if we take your logic to enough length, maybe we should have bombed Italy. They really fired the first shot in their colonization of Libya.


We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:57 PM  
Marine1:
Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.


What exactly IS my opinion of the French?
 
2011-03-17 09:52:43 PM  
potterydove: Kar98: "Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

"Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

What happened you, Germany? You used to be cool :/

The German people lost their collective backbones when they lost WW2. They're cowards now.


I can not disagree with this.
 
2011-03-17 09:53:16 PM  
shower_in_my_socks: netweavr: You seem to be of the opinion that the US shouldn't have plans to operate on its own. Furthermore, you seem to be of the opinion that the US must always operate on its own.


Don't change the f*cking subject. You said we weren't getting involved and I shoved that lie down your throat. Go spread misinformed BS somewhere else.

Better yet, join the other propaganda-brainwashed idiots on my ignore list -- you and the other morons can have a nice circle jerk from the hard-ons you get from another pointless war you don't understand.


Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. We can't be involved.
 
2011-03-17 09:53:26 PM  
Empty Signal Gray: Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Qkwaddafie has chosen not to recognize the resolution? It isn't worth the parchment it's calligraphied on.

Kwanzaadolly denies he's even the leader of the country FFS, his take on the resolution is not particularly significant.

/though he claims he's still in power
 
2011-03-17 09:53:58 PM  
mfca: Marine1:
Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

What exactly IS my opinion of the French?


Quebec?
 
2011-03-17 09:54:30 PM  
Marine1: gamepolice: We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm

You don't read articles much, do you?

The UN basically said "no offensive troops on the ground". Air only.


The UN did state that, but they also stated "all necessary measures" which means we can do anything. Also have you read about the reports coming from Senators who were briefed? They stated we were ready to attack.

Ground troops may not happen, but they could happen too just because of that clause in the resolution.
 
2011-03-17 09:54:47 PM  
netweavr: 2wolves: Fomby_Belcher: The fact that this war is coming about because of Hillary pitching a fit, speaks volumes about the U.S. Administration.

Amateur Hour.

Citation, please.

I'd speculate she's just differentiating herself in case she wants to run against Obama in the Primary.

But whatever, here:

Link (new window)


Partial quote with no context and you swallow it? Wow.
 
2011-03-17 09:54:54 PM  
Excellent!!!!! Lets continue to have our faux-hero soldiers slaughter innocent babies for oil!

U S A, U S A!


/ seriously hope we lose a shiatload of infantry right away
// war: what is it good for? Hint: (absolutely nothing)
 
2011-03-17 09:55:05 PM  
You know what? Not to sound like a bummer or anything but I'm sooo ready for world upheaval, a spade a spade, Armageddon.

There's barely new movies to make that anyone would want to watch.

Music today sucks and I mean it sucks for real, not "KISS" sucks.

Could you even title a new song,never mind the lyrics, that hasn't been done already?

Recession, Social doldrums, death hasn't been cured yet.

Hell, I don't hate anyone but I'm lethargic and I just lost my job; lets just all go out together and try to make it at least a grand spectacle of an exit eh?
 
2011-03-17 09:55:14 PM  
bartink: We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.

We've covered that already.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:02 PM  
bartink: eraser8: Marine1: You do realize the disco was bombed first, right?

Yes. And, you do realize that the bombing of Pan Am 103 happened in consequence of the bombing of Tripoli?

Hell, if we take your logic to enough length, maybe we should have bombed Italy. They really fired the first shot in their colonization of Libya.

We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.


Yeah.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:04 PM  
AnkhX10.0:
2. It doesn't matter in my view that this is approved by the UN. If Congress does not declare war, the war is unconstitutional and illegal.


The first war our country ever engaged in after the signing of the Constitution was undeclared and--get this--in Libya.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:20 PM  
gamepolice: We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm


Who says this has to lead to a single US ground troop entering Libya? The rebels don't even want that and it would have little US popular support. They're just asking for a wee bit of aerial bombardment.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:46 PM  
OK, for all the people that say "it's not our fight, it doesn't concern us." If you know your neighbour is beating the shiat out of his wife and kids constantly, do you say it doesn't concern you, and just do nothing?

In the end, it's about standing up for the little guy, because they are trying to do it on their own, and it hasn't worked. They need (and have asked for) help. I believe that you help people, regardless of whether this will hurt or harm you.

I realize I'm being idealistic and naive, and I've over-simplified things, but that's how I feel.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:52 PM  
So, assuming that the bombers left as soon as the UN declaration was signed, and the cruise missiles will hit at the same time, how long do we have?
 
2011-03-17 09:56:56 PM  
netweavr: Almost half as weird as me agreeing with you.

Yea..that's pretty weird. Seriously, when has the French taken lead on anything? Last time I remember is Battle of Dien Bien Phu, which they lost badly. That was in 1954 (new window). Did I miss anything significant?

If they brought Qadaffi's head to the Paris town square, I think the people would cheer!

/cynic
 
2011-03-17 09:57:59 PM  
Let's as they say "get ur done"

www.battle-fleet.com
 
2011-03-17 09:58:01 PM  
Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.


Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton
 
2011-03-17 09:58:02 PM  
cyclebiff: Excellent!!!!! Lets continue to have our faux-hero soldiers slaughter innocent babies for oil!

U S A, U S A!


/ seriously hope we lose a shiatload of infantry right away
// war: what is it good for? Hint: (absolutely nothing)


1/10. Calling for the death of American soldiers doesn't really work when the American action will be air-based. Also, you sound like a stoner from the Vietnam era.

One point for giving it the good ol' college try, though.
 
2011-03-17 09:58:08 PM  
bigpeace.com

Now we're talking!
 
2011-03-17 09:58:09 PM  
eraser8: bartink: We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.

We've covered that already.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-03-17 09:58:25 PM  
UncleStumpy: If you know your neighbour is beating the shiat out of his wife and kids constantly, do you say it doesn't concern you, and just do nothing?

The Fred Phelps thread is the next one up.
 
2011-03-17 09:59:04 PM  
gunsmack: UncleStumpy: If you know your neighbour is beating the shiat out of his wife and kids constantly, do you say it doesn't concern you, and just do nothing?

The Fred Phelps thread is the next one up.


win
 
2011-03-17 09:59:44 PM  
The french military are very well equipped, and don't fark about either.
 
2011-03-17 10:00:26 PM  
cyclebiff: / seriously hope we lose a shiatload of infantry right away

OK, you're probably trolling, but what good do you hope would come from that? Or is pain and suffering better when it's Americans?
 
2011-03-17 10:00:36 PM  
Greylight: Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton


The French surrendering wouldn't have been too much of an issue if the Soviets hadn't gone above and beyond in trying to repel the Germans. Sure, it happened later, but one country sat there and cried; the other burned down their towns as they retreated so the Germans couldn't have what they had spent thousands of troops for.
 
2011-03-17 10:00:36 PM  
Will this be on TV? Because other than reruns of Maverick, TV really sucks these days. I want some HD explosions! Now!
 
2011-03-17 10:03:27 PM  
I'm sure the rebel forces are swelling big time. The western world just jumped in their back seat, as it were. Just when they thought they were about to die a torturous death. The Adrenaline Scale must be off the charts.
 
2011-03-17 10:03:50 PM  
I thought Russia abstained?

images.wikia.com


/frog of war
 
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