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(Al Jazeera) NewsFlash Let slip the frogs of war   (english.aljazeera.net) divider line 655
    More: NewsFlash, Muammar Gaddafi, Benghazi, Libyan, U.N. Security Council, Libyan leader, peacekeepings  
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35857 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2011 at 7:37 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2011-03-17 09:48:43 PM
Snarcoleptic_Hoosier
Which is my fear. The Gulf War left a dictator in power who killed civilians and was dealt with a decade later by a "bomb first, think later" mentality. I don't trust the current administration any more than the previous one.

Comparisons to the Iraq wars are fine, but there are a couple of differences, namely that in this case the purpose is clear (oust Gaddafi), there's no mandate for ground forces, and there's already an existing force ready to replace the old regime (so, no sticking around for years trying to figure out an exit strategy).


eraser8
Suppressing an insurrection is qualitatively different from ethnic cleansing.

Given the tribal nature of this particular insurrection, that's probably not accurate.


shower_in_my_socks
WHAT IS THE F*CKING MISSION?

Provide cover for rebel ground forces.

WHAT IS THE GOAL?

Gaddafi's head on a pole and placed above the gates to Tripoli as a warning.

WHAT IS THE BENCHMARK FOR DECLARING THIS OPERATION COMPLETED?

Rebels in control of Libyan territory, all Gaddafi supporters stand down.

At least, those should be the obvious answers.
 
2011-03-17 09:48:48 PM
gamepolice: We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm


You don't read articles much, do you?

The UN basically said "no offensive troops on the ground". Air only.
 
2011-03-17 09:49:00 PM
GaryPDX: These boys in uniform are more concerned with the word "authorized*.

Yes, it was authorized by the UN. I still don't think the US should be involved.
 
2011-03-17 09:49:34 PM
wee weee!

www.wingweb.co.uk
 
2011-03-17 09:50:25 PM
pope183: Great book.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:12 PM
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Qkwaddafie has chosen not to recognize the resolution? It isn't worth the parchment it's calligraphied on.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:28 PM
Kar98: "Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

"Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

What happened you, Germany? You used to be cool :/


The German people lost their collective backbones when they lost WW2. They're cowards now.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:54 PM
RanDomino: Given the tribal nature of this particular insurrection, that's probably not accurate.

The rebels rose up after the examples of Tunisia and Egypt. That's when the fighting began. This is a suppression action.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:57 PM
eraser8: Marine1: You do realize the disco was bombed first, right?

Yes. And, you do realize that the bombing of Pan Am 103 happened in consequence of the bombing of Tripoli?

Hell, if we take your logic to enough length, maybe we should have bombed Italy. They really fired the first shot in their colonization of Libya.


We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.
 
2011-03-17 09:51:57 PM
Marine1:
Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.


What exactly IS my opinion of the French?
 
2011-03-17 09:52:43 PM
potterydove: Kar98: "Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

"Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict."

What happened you, Germany? You used to be cool :/

The German people lost their collective backbones when they lost WW2. They're cowards now.


I can not disagree with this.
 
2011-03-17 09:53:16 PM
shower_in_my_socks: netweavr: You seem to be of the opinion that the US shouldn't have plans to operate on its own. Furthermore, you seem to be of the opinion that the US must always operate on its own.


Don't change the f*cking subject. You said we weren't getting involved and I shoved that lie down your throat. Go spread misinformed BS somewhere else.

Better yet, join the other propaganda-brainwashed idiots on my ignore list -- you and the other morons can have a nice circle jerk from the hard-ons you get from another pointless war you don't understand.


Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. We can't be involved.
 
2011-03-17 09:53:26 PM
Empty Signal Gray: Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Qkwaddafie has chosen not to recognize the resolution? It isn't worth the parchment it's calligraphied on.

Kwanzaadolly denies he's even the leader of the country FFS, his take on the resolution is not particularly significant.

/though he claims he's still in power
 
2011-03-17 09:53:58 PM
mfca: Marine1:
Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

What exactly IS my opinion of the French?


Quebec?
 
2011-03-17 09:54:30 PM
Marine1: gamepolice: We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm

You don't read articles much, do you?

The UN basically said "no offensive troops on the ground". Air only.


The UN did state that, but they also stated "all necessary measures" which means we can do anything. Also have you read about the reports coming from Senators who were briefed? They stated we were ready to attack.

Ground troops may not happen, but they could happen too just because of that clause in the resolution.
 
2011-03-17 09:54:47 PM
netweavr: 2wolves: Fomby_Belcher: The fact that this war is coming about because of Hillary pitching a fit, speaks volumes about the U.S. Administration.

Amateur Hour.

Citation, please.

I'd speculate she's just differentiating herself in case she wants to run against Obama in the Primary.

But whatever, here:

Link (new window)


Partial quote with no context and you swallow it? Wow.
 
2011-03-17 09:54:54 PM
Excellent!!!!! Lets continue to have our faux-hero soldiers slaughter innocent babies for oil!

U S A, U S A!


/ seriously hope we lose a shiatload of infantry right away
// war: what is it good for? Hint: (absolutely nothing)
 
2011-03-17 09:55:05 PM
You know what? Not to sound like a bummer or anything but I'm sooo ready for world upheaval, a spade a spade, Armageddon.

There's barely new movies to make that anyone would want to watch.

Music today sucks and I mean it sucks for real, not "KISS" sucks.

Could you even title a new song,never mind the lyrics, that hasn't been done already?

Recession, Social doldrums, death hasn't been cured yet.

Hell, I don't hate anyone but I'm lethargic and I just lost my job; lets just all go out together and try to make it at least a grand spectacle of an exit eh?
 
2011-03-17 09:55:14 PM
bartink: We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.

We've covered that already.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:02 PM
bartink: eraser8: Marine1: You do realize the disco was bombed first, right?

Yes. And, you do realize that the bombing of Pan Am 103 happened in consequence of the bombing of Tripoli?

Hell, if we take your logic to enough length, maybe we should have bombed Italy. They really fired the first shot in their colonization of Libya.

We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.


Yeah.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:04 PM
AnkhX10.0:
2. It doesn't matter in my view that this is approved by the UN. If Congress does not declare war, the war is unconstitutional and illegal.


The first war our country ever engaged in after the signing of the Constitution was undeclared and--get this--in Libya.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:20 PM
gamepolice: We have troops coming home from Iraq, we can send them to Libya. Seriously this is a bad idea and will mostly come back to bite us one day.

Then again, every President needs some country to pick on or start a war with them at the helm


Who says this has to lead to a single US ground troop entering Libya? The rebels don't even want that and it would have little US popular support. They're just asking for a wee bit of aerial bombardment.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:46 PM
OK, for all the people that say "it's not our fight, it doesn't concern us." If you know your neighbour is beating the shiat out of his wife and kids constantly, do you say it doesn't concern you, and just do nothing?

In the end, it's about standing up for the little guy, because they are trying to do it on their own, and it hasn't worked. They need (and have asked for) help. I believe that you help people, regardless of whether this will hurt or harm you.

I realize I'm being idealistic and naive, and I've over-simplified things, but that's how I feel.
 
2011-03-17 09:56:52 PM
So, assuming that the bombers left as soon as the UN declaration was signed, and the cruise missiles will hit at the same time, how long do we have?
 
2011-03-17 09:57:59 PM
Let's as they say "get ur done"

www.battle-fleet.com
 
2011-03-17 09:58:01 PM
Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.


Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton
 
2011-03-17 09:58:02 PM
cyclebiff: Excellent!!!!! Lets continue to have our faux-hero soldiers slaughter innocent babies for oil!

U S A, U S A!


/ seriously hope we lose a shiatload of infantry right away
// war: what is it good for? Hint: (absolutely nothing)


1/10. Calling for the death of American soldiers doesn't really work when the American action will be air-based. Also, you sound like a stoner from the Vietnam era.

One point for giving it the good ol' college try, though.
 
2011-03-17 09:58:08 PM
bigpeace.com

Now we're talking!
 
2011-03-17 09:58:09 PM
eraser8: bartink: We bombed Tripoli because the prick blew up Americans in a discotheque in Germany, if memory serves.

We've covered that already.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-03-17 09:58:25 PM
UncleStumpy: If you know your neighbour is beating the shiat out of his wife and kids constantly, do you say it doesn't concern you, and just do nothing?

The Fred Phelps thread is the next one up.
 
2011-03-17 09:59:04 PM
gunsmack: UncleStumpy: If you know your neighbour is beating the shiat out of his wife and kids constantly, do you say it doesn't concern you, and just do nothing?

The Fred Phelps thread is the next one up.


win
 
2011-03-17 09:59:44 PM
The french military are very well equipped, and don't fark about either.
 
2011-03-17 10:00:26 PM
cyclebiff: / seriously hope we lose a shiatload of infantry right away

OK, you're probably trolling, but what good do you hope would come from that? Or is pain and suffering better when it's Americans?
 
2011-03-17 10:00:36 PM
Greylight: Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton


The French surrendering wouldn't have been too much of an issue if the Soviets hadn't gone above and beyond in trying to repel the Germans. Sure, it happened later, but one country sat there and cried; the other burned down their towns as they retreated so the Germans couldn't have what they had spent thousands of troops for.
 
2011-03-17 10:00:36 PM
Will this be on TV? Because other than reruns of Maverick, TV really sucks these days. I want some HD explosions! Now!
 
2011-03-17 10:03:50 PM
I thought Russia abstained?

images.wikia.com


/frog of war
 
2011-03-17 10:03:59 PM
Marine1: Greylight: Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton

The French surrendering wouldn't have been too much of an issue if the Soviets hadn't gone above and beyond in trying to repel the Germans. Sure, it happened later, but one country sat there and cried; the other burned down their towns as they retreated so the Germans couldn't have what they had spent thousands of troops for.


Yes, but it also cost them dearly. The Soviets were led by a man with no regard for the lives of his people, a mass murderer just as bad if not worse than Hitler.
 
2011-03-17 10:06:00 PM
The greatest military power human civilization has ever known, are about to open the fark up on Libya.

May God have mercy on their souls.
 
2011-03-17 10:06:58 PM
JohnCarter: Let's as they say "get ur done"

There's urrr..'nuttin' to geet dun.'

The rebellion's over this is just to stop koughsyrup from killn' rebels on the run backwards.
 
2011-03-17 10:07:01 PM
eraser8: I think Guernica is an example of what happens when outside forces impress themselves upon another country's civil war.

I view it then and Libya now as an examples where the intentional bombing of civilians is unacceptable. It's happened many times in the past and I can't think of a time it was viewed as proper, at least not in Pompey's camp.

Establishing a no-fly zone is an acceptable response to such acts.

We had Libya all ready to go and Colonel Khadafy'shiat squad
didn't even show up. I tell ya That man is unreliable.


Took 25 years.
 
2011-03-17 10:07:37 PM
Marine1: Greylight: Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton

The French surrendering wouldn't have been too much of an issue if the Soviets hadn't gone above and beyond in trying to repel the Germans. Sure, it happened later, but one country sat there and cried; the other burned down their towns as they retreated so the Germans couldn't have what they had spent thousands of troops for.


One nation also had a large portion of the most devastating war in history up that point fought in their industrial heartland about two decades previously, with a few million dead and wounded thrown into the mix.
 
2011-03-17 10:07:49 PM
Well, watching Al Jazeera right now and the folks in Benghazi seem to be enjoying themselves. They also seem to be wasting a lot of ammo in celebration. I hope they realise they're still going to be needing that.
 
2011-03-17 10:07:50 PM
Smell ya later dude!
 
2011-03-17 10:08:14 PM
HellRaisingHoosier: The greatest military power human civilization has ever known, are about to open the fark up on Libya.

May God have mercy on their souls.


yeah about that...not so much. sorry.
 
2011-03-17 10:08:45 PM
Greylight:

Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.


My wife's grandfather, a WWII RCAF navigator, won't even fly over Quebec.

He outright blames French cowardice for many of the Canadian losses in WWII.

/Not saying it's right, but there is a very strong French "surrender monkey" mentality held by Canadian WWII vets.
 
2011-03-17 10:09:10 PM
Marine1: The French surrendering wouldn't have been too much of an issue if the Soviets hadn't gone above and beyond in trying to repel the Germans. Sure, it happened later, but one country sat there and cried; the other burned down their towns as they retreated so the Germans couldn't have what they had spent thousands of troops for.

They didn't just sit there and cry, they were dominated by a superior force that routed the armies of two world powers with a brilliant military innovation.

The Russians didn't start burning shiat until they were invaded and had a huge country that afforded them that luxury.
 
2011-03-17 10:09:45 PM
Baron-Harkonnen: Marine1: Greylight: Marine1: Dwayne Hawking: GungFu : I knew it was probably referencing The Dogs of War but having glanced at the article's headline itself, well...as a non-American, I think I'm right in saying the headline is actually quite crappy.

It's the old surrender monkey image which apparently the Americans love, and no-one else gets.

Meh.

Ah, give it up.

Everyone on the Allies side of WWII gets it. Americans just get it more.

Srsly, ask Canadians about their opinion of the French.

Careful what you wish for. The "surrender monkey" vision of French military history is predominatly American. The source of that view has its root in American insecurity.

"and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (...) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton

The French surrendering wouldn't have been too much of an issue if the Soviets hadn't gone above and beyond in trying to repel the Germans. Sure, it happened later, but one country sat there and cried; the other burned down their towns as they retreated so the Germans couldn't have what they had spent thousands of troops for.

Yes, but it also cost them dearly. The Soviets were led by a man with no regard for the lives of his people, a mass murderer just as bad if not worse than Hitler.


True, but there's something... notable (perhaps not admirable) about that kind of fatalism. The utterly awesome assholery of burning down what your enemy thought they had just seized. The kind of moves that let a man die with a snide smile on his face. Idk.

The French really could have sacrificed a lot more to keep the Germans from getting as far as they did. Would it have been pleasant? Hell no. It may have gone a long way, though.
 
2011-03-17 10:09:58 PM
so what was the headline before it got fixed?
 
2011-03-17 10:10:19 PM
MentalMoment: We had Libya all ready to go and Colonel Khadafy'shiat squad
didn't even show up. I tell ya That man is unreliable.


Ha. Didn't expect to see that reference (or remember it, until now).
 
2011-03-17 10:10:24 PM
tonguedepressor: JohnCarter: Let's as they say "get ur done"

There's urrr..'nuttin' to geet dun.'

The rebellion's over this is just to stop koughsyrup from killn' rebels on the run backwards.


Don't ever doubt the power of momentum on the battlefield. Knowing that U.S. planes will be in the air over Libya is a huge boost to the rebels. I doubt this war is over. Let's not forget that a number of NATO countries have recognized the Libyan rebels as the legitimate government. That really does mean something.
 
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