I agree with headlessparrot. It all really depends on what one is using filesharing for, I suppose. Are you using it to just get tons of free music and listen to it all the time, or are you using it as I do, to sample? On the rare occaision that I turn on the radio, I may hear a song I like. Wonderful! I've heard that song now, but is the whole album worthwhile? I'll download and listen, and if it sucks, then I'll gladly delete it and not buy the album.

That's what hurts the RIAA the most, because people get to hear that something sucks before forking over anywhere between $15 and $19 to learn the same damn thing. I have no mp3's on my harddrive that I don't already own the cd to. Yes, I downloaded these mp3's illegally, and then I bought the cd if I liked them, or deleted them if I didn't.

Ever since the RIAA stopped letting music stores have "listen on demand" features, it's impossible to hear something without buying it then or downloading the mp3's.

I think that's the problem there, is that the RIAA doesn't care why you're doing it, they just don't want anyone to do it.

Bukharin: I'd guess the same way you patent genes.

SquirrelWithLargeNuts

In that case, I want to copyright the number 100.
Then I can sue the Bob Hope estate for 100$

I don't know if you've been listening, Periteneum, but some people are TRYING to have a logical debate... all you seem to want to do is dismiss them as liars and slap our wrists with your ruler some more.

As a musician, I know that making music is hard work. I also know (from experience) that, once I started sharing MP3s on my band's web site, our sales went up exponentially. Why? Because not everyone has a CD burner. Because some people prefer to hear the music before they buy it. Because some people want to support us by buying our music.

Whatever the case may be, some bigger-name bands are doing the same thing... to build fan loyalty, to increase sales, to get their music out to a larger audience. And it's working for them. Maybe it's because they didn't sign with a "major" label so, in turn, they're making more than 50 cents per CD sold. Go figure.

So if you want a "logical debate," stop calling people names and be an adult.

Periteneum: A chef is a good analogy. Your definition of theft would mean that everyone who smelt the chef's food is stealing, even though the food hasn't been nabbed by any of them. If you cook with the windows open and then proceed to biatch that everyone walking by is smelling your food without paying, then you'll just encourage more to do it. And since it's your fault, your complaints will be ignored justly.

ITMS = ITNS

wow i can not spell today.

If you are going to use bittorent - install Peerguardian because of all the p2ps, bittorent is most likely the least secure, by design. However, the BT communities are doing a lot on their own to make it a safe place to trade.

and the one good thing about BT is you can't just leech.

2003-07-28 05:45:00 PM Rubble

Good analogy. Especially since smell is tiny particalls of the food entering the body. Kind of like the compression of the full sound of the music into a crappy MP3.

Even though I'm thououghly disgusted with RIAA, I honestly don't mind paying some change for songs that I want to keep, provided they're CD (or close) quality. I'd rather just send money directly to the artists for crap that I download, and don't immedialety delete for suckage.

If RIAA would just stop sueing everybody, I'd gladly subscribe to a pay-per-download site. Until that time, I say screw 'em. My personal boycott shall continue.

www.iuma.com

Here is a great place to here new and independent music.

great headline

If you are a chef and I don't like your food, does that give me the right to skip out on the check? No. I take my issues to you and we work on an amicable solution.

Well everywhere ive eaten if theres a problem with my food, its returned for something better, and most often then not its no charge. If stores allowed returning of opened CD's that I really didnt like(everywhere ive been to doesnt), then fine I may go buy more. Until then im not spending 20$, which is an ungodly amount to a college student, just to buy a shiatty-ass cd for one song I like.

I can imagine the RIAA chairman sitting the chairman of Napster down and carrying out that scene from True Romance:

RIAA Chairman: "See that? (punches Napster chairman in the nose) Smarts, don't it? Gettin' slammed in the nose farks you all up. You got that pain shootin' through your brain. Your eyes fill up with water. It ain't any kind of fun. But what I have to offer you, that's as good as it's ever gonna get, and it won't ever get that good again."

I use Kazaa almost exclusively for movies anymore. I downloaded one Tsui Hark movie and ended up buying three at Suncoast. His movies are awesome.

The way I look at it, if it (music, warez, etc) were not available to download meant that you would not have it, then download it. If you would have bought it anyways, then go buy it. If you are broke and either download or do without, then you are not impacting the industry, because they would not have gotten your money either way. *fires up Kazaa lite, Direct Connetc, and mIRC* as for me, considering that I've been out of a job a while and about to lose my house because I can't find a job...I'm not going to be buying much of anything, unless its groceries or gasoline, or my rent payment I can't make.

my personal favrite is downloading through the archives at etree.org

go there for tons of live shows, that are LEGAL and okayed by the artists themselves

A couple of things to remember, for those crying "thief!":

1. It's not theft. It's copyright infringement.
2. Stop using worthless analogies. This is a fairly new paradigm, so (I believe) one doesn't exist. If you go to a bank and photocopy a million bucks, that counterfeiting, not robbery (see #1).
3. Real artists are not "canned". They go out on tour and work for their money. I know people in two bands who make a decent living this way and have no CDs (or at least not their main source of income).
4. "Try before buy" at retail stores is a false argument. You won't find Buckwheat Zydeco on their listening stations (in the very few stores that have them).

Does anyone realy give a shiat about Napster anymore?

Anyone?

One, to Periteneum, forgive me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it been said elsewhere that musicians only see about 10% or less of those CD sales? Don't they make their money through touring and ticket sales? So they aren't the one's getting screwed; it's the rich ol' asshats of the RIAA.

Two, Roxio has the rights to Napster? *choke* Nero 0wnz Easy CD Creator, so I can mark that off my "to buy" list. Besides, I like Kazaalite much better than I ever liked Napster. Besides, mostly I download anime fansubs that are free anyway and foreign music.

Finally, I liked using Bittorent, but lately, I can't get the damn thing to connect to a peer, and if I do, it's at 1 kps an hour. So either I'm connecting to people on farking dial-up, or else XP, which already hates me, now has taken a disliking to using this program and will never allow me the joys of using it, ever again. Microsoft is the tool of Hell. But you knew that.

Yeah, I totally agree, Supreme.

I can't completely remember but with copyright infringement, don't you get in trouble only if you make a profit off what you copy?

Napster ... you sell-out biatch.. Sold out to the man...

/Fark and then... Fark again!

Control, Im sure not very many people downloaded your songs, becuase you could have atleast named the songs the right names, its not "where were you when the towers fell" its "where were you when the world stopped turning" and the last time I heard there aint even a song named "do you remember" I think you may be talking about " Have your forgotten"

Acually the word towers aint even in the damn song. You could have atleast listened to the songs before doing something stupid like that.

yo tigerx...try out emusic.com

they have signed up a bunch of small record labels and the monthly fee is pretty cheap.

They also have a free trial, so you can decide if it sucks or not.

I use it, and like it.

Don`t record companys realize yet the reasons cds are not selling. Im not going to shell out 15 - 20 $ of my hard earned money for 2 songs that are good and the rest of the album sucking. its like buying an overpriced rusty car with 1 nice door on it. Start getting bands in there with talent and more creativety than a fly on shiat. Another intresting fact is that artists see very very little of the record sales. Touring is where most of the money is made.

Periteneum as for your comment on your band working "hard" I played in bars , partys and some festables in pa. What happend to playing music for people who just love music. It seems mr.RIAA has screwed and stepped on everything it could. Its a shame when your playing in a band and all your concerned about it, Will i get money for this song? Play for the fun of it. Play because its great and other people enjoy it.

stick with good ole Kazaa

My dad used to work with mechanic engineers, who worked on those big ass mechanical computers in the 70's, then they were made obsolete by electronic computers. They didn't start sueing anyone, and my dad changed professions (and now manages and owns half of a point-of-sale systems company).

When things change, adapt, don't biatch about how unfair it is and how naughty people are.

Periteneum,

You are not enlightened. You are not the be all, end all of how the music industry functions. You are not the judge, jury and executioner of everyone and anyone in this forum. You are not taking the moral high ground. You're spreading the same crap the RIAA is. As several have pointed out:

1) A band makes a helluva lot more from touring than selling CDs.
2) File sharing increases exposure and there is NOT ONE legitimate study that says they directly or indirectly decrease sales (legitimate = not done by the RIAA)
3) Because I download an MP3 does not mean a sale was lost. In some cases, I'll never buy the CD. In others, it's music that I already have the CD for. In either case, the RIAA either has the money they are going to get from me, or they don't have the money they were never going to get from me to beginwith because they can't put out a CD that's worth $15+.
4) My car was broken into, all of my CDs stolen. Thankfully it wasn't a massive collection at the time, maybe 15. Why should I pay another ~$250 to replace them? Why should anyone?
5) My friend turned me on to Dream Theater three years ago. Thanks to the original Napster, I was able to download a track that I otherwise never would have heard. They shortly became my favorite band. Because of Napster, I bought all of their CDs and have gone to all four of their shows in my area since then. Between the RIAA, Ticketmaster, Dream Theater and whoever else is involved, I have spent almost $400 and have enjoyed every dollar of it. Were it not for Napster, I'd be $400 richer, and "they" would be collectively $400 poorer. Money well spent in my estimation, and DT has Napster to thank for it. Otherwise, I'd have ignored my friend and gone about my business.

Musicians make music. Businessmen develop commodities.

There are other differences, too. A musician will make music even when there's no hope that anyone will buy it.

I like listening to music.

I don't think I'll be trying it. I have a feeling it's going to be mostly populated by top-40 crap/flavor of the week (much like Kazaa tends to be).

Count me in as one of those who likes to explore new music. Almost all CDs I bought in the past year have been from artists I discovered through MP3. I'd hear a name, or get a recommendation (including reading posts on Fark) and check them out. If I liked what I heard, I broke out the ol' wallet and sent some appreciation. Granted, the RIAA likely made no money from these sales as the purchases tended to be on smaller labels, but that's a quality issue.

And for the Atom and His Package fans here (yay!), definitely check out his shows if he comes to your town. As the kids say, he 0wnz0rs!

/wish I could have attended Punk Rock Academy

"Consumer choice is really the biggest value that we have been able to carry over"

Oh yay. The choice to download Britney Spears or NSYNC. I'm undewhelmed. The coorporate types don't frickin' get it. One of the greatest things about p2p is that you could find stuff that isn't top 40 (or top 40000 for that matter).

That's not Napster!

That's a man baby!

But seriously who gives fark? I knew Napster, and that, is not, Napster.

Before Napster, I did not own a single CD. I didn't listen to any music. Now, it is true that I have a large MP3 collection, but I have an even larger CD collection. I have 100+ CDs all purchased since Napster started. If Napster or any other file sharing network had not existed, I never would have bought a single CD.

And rather than listen to the same old crap they play on the radio, I prefer to search for and find my own unique, distinct, non-mainstream music. Sure I like some of what is on the radio, but not all of it. And I like a TON of stuff that would never make it on a radio. Dream Theater baby; Blue October anyone? File sharing allows me to taste so much music in so little time, all from the comfort of my own chair, and I can decide to buy the albums that are truely worth buying.
If anything, file sharing has given me more freedom, buying power, and control over my music.

Also since Napster, I have gone to about 15 concerts. That is money that goes straight to the artists. Sorry RIAA, did you want a share of that now too? Asshats!!

I think I heard Me First and the Gimme Gimmes last night on Loveline. They said that the filesharing stuff hurts people like them, the indie artists because they said "unlike the major label bands, we actually see royalties".

Thanks to filesharing, I found out about bands like Lacuna Coil (friend d/l the cd, burned it for me, I liked it and ended up buying all of their CDs). If I like a band (like Metallica, I know they suck for everyone whose gonna say it or Anthrax) I'm gonna buy the CD anyways. Most of the stuff I seem to d/l lately is stuff I'm not gonna buy in the first place.

I for one will be happy to see a pay for play sort of system as long as I will be able to do what I want with the music when I get it. I can do it with a cd that I buy, so why not with a song I d/l?

Why do so many people need to say "copyright infringment is theft" to drive home the point "copyright infringement is wrong." Just say it's farking wrong. Don't falsely synonimize it with something it's not. I think copyright infringment _is_ wrong, but saying stupid missinformative shiat like "don't steal music with KaZaA" isn't going to get me to respect your opinions.

And if anyone out there who is shaking their head honestly believes that copyright infringement is stealing, and that if a police officer strip searches me and finds a burned copy of Maya (whose MSRP is around $4,000) I'd be sent to criminal court and prosecuted for grand theft, you need a cold hard reality check.

Kazaa Lite K++. That's all I need. I'll leave the thing on all damn week and swap music I don't own and won't buy, even though I like it. I do it because I'd rather buy something else, like a DVD or a pound of sushi grade ahi tuna. I do it because I can get away with it. I do it because most of the music I see on MTV and hear on the radio I think is awful, and I'm not going to spend $18 on it. I'm not one of those people who says, "Oh if I like the song I downloaded, I'll probably go out and buy the rest of the CD!" I won't. I'll just Search by Album and download the rest of it and burn it all on a $.25 CDR.

Sure, there's that mentality that if everyone doesn't spend $18 then there won't be a music industry, but I'll take my chances. I do it because me not spending my $18 won't make or break the music industry. The people who don't have access to file sharing are far more plentiful than those of us who do. Let them support the music that I'm choosing to download. I've seen the pie charts, and I know how the royalties are broken down. Maybe it's time for the artists to demand a bigger slice of that pie from their label, to make up for people like me who won't ever buy another CD.

Life ain't fair.

When do you think musicians had it better - when they were lucky to be thrown some spare change on a street corner, or nowadays? It really wasn't that long ago.

Also, there are many types of music that you just couldn't find if not for the internet. Do you really think that you'll be able to find quality music like this using a service you have to pay for? As if it'll be any different from 99% of the music stores you can buy CDs in. I'll never subscribe to any of these services because they'll never cater to everyone, especially me.

If I hear something that someone halfway across the world is making, and I buy a CD from them because I like it so much, don't you think this artist is going to be happy? Actually I'm not even going to buy that CD, I think I'll just burn it and send the person 10 or 15 bucks, that's more than they'll make off of it anyhow, and that's where I want the money to go. I'm sorry, but the internet helps real struggling artists more than it could ever hurt them. The RIAA can fark off. I'd like to see the greedy bastards try and come after my trance collection.

that is not napster. thats against all that napster stood for. this would be like making a christian gospel album under the NIN nametag...wrong on so many levels

Uh Lil_Bing, Richard Bachman is Stephen King, that's not Periteneum's name. That would be like thinking my name is Morgan Sloat.

Anyhow, i do agree, he needs to shut his dumb trap.

I don't lie to myself. I steal music. But the music I steal is from bands who broke up many many years ago and they no longer carry the cd's.

I do steal legitamate music, however, I don't really listen to it. I just like having more than everyone else. =)

Also as many others in here have said. When i find a band I truly like I go out and buy their Cd's. Hell I find T-shirts and buy them too. I see them in concert and support them in any way possible. But if they suck, I wouldn't have bought their cd anyways. No loss of a potential sale there. I just have more MP3's than the average Joe, and I don't share.

So take your holier than thou attitude and shove it up your ass.

I download music to see what it sounds like .... then if I dont like it I delete it. If I do like it, I dont delete it.

the music industry has to evolve ...

maybe present more interactive media .. like cds that blow you too.

i know who made it
<img src="http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramo unt_pictures/the_italian_job/seth_green/italian2.jpg"

quite honestly, i've pretty much given up on buying music. I'll download quite a lot, but I will go out and buy the album at a used music store if i like the band. really sucks for the artist, i know, but i will not start buying new CDs until the price drops down to a reasonable level. I can buy a new CD for $16, or a used, good condition CD for $5. really, not much of a contest here... The record companies need to get rid of as much bureacracy as possible, and give the artists a much larger slice of the profits.