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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Lawmakers who didn't read Freakonomics might be raising the number of crime-related Florida tags in 2031   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 86
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6229 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2011 at 10:28 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-03-07 10:33:01 AM
Well played Freakonomics reference!

Also, Florida and all the other misogynistic, paternalistic, dickwad states that think women are not smart enough to make this decision without the counsel of a man can DIAF.
 
2011-03-07 10:35:41 AM

gochuck: Well played Freakonomics reference!

Also, Florida and all the other misogynistic, paternalistic, dickwad states that think women are not smart enough to make this decision without the counsel of a man can DIAF.


Annnnnnnd awwwwayyyyyyyyy we gooooooooo!
 
2011-03-07 10:36:55 AM
I'm curious.
If a woman refuses to look at the ultrasound (close her eyes, turn her head, wear a blindfold, etc.) doesn't that kind of beat the idea behind this and similar bills?

Now I know most (all) abortion bills aren't so much about protecting the child as they are about punishing the mother, especially because they typically come right before or after a bill gutting social services. This just seems like one more way to pass blame, guilt and judgement on a woman.
 
2011-03-07 10:37:47 AM
Abortion limits? So like, I can only make my girlfriend have 5 or something then I'm out of abortions?
 
2011-03-07 10:38:04 AM

Gunny Highway: gochuck: Well played Freakonomics reference!

Also, Florida and all the other misogynistic, paternalistic, dickwad states that think women are not smart enough to make this decision without the counsel of a man can DIAF.

Annnnnnnd awwwwayyyyyyyyy we gooooooooo!


I brought extra.
www.xarj.net
 
2011-03-07 10:39:12 AM
Government has no business mandating health services for anybody! You know, unless it's for abortion, then it is ok. Sigh. Some days it is embarrassing to be a Republican.
 
2011-03-07 10:42:22 AM

gochuck: Well played Freakonomics reference!

Also, Florida and all the other misogynistic, paternalistic, dickwad states that think women are not smart enough to make this decision without the counsel of a man can DIAF.


I have no experience with the matter, but generally it is best to remove the tampon after a few days. I've heard it can get quite toxic.
 
2011-03-07 10:47:55 AM
Huh?

FTFA:
"Supporters hope such legislation will deter abortions, contending that women who see an image of the fetus may feel a connection and be less likely to terminate their pregnancy."

That is so silly.

If I'm willing to abort that cluster of cells, seeing a smudge on my ultrasound won't make a difference.
 
2011-03-07 10:48:24 AM
Yeah dickheads, because every woman that gets an abortion is oh so happy about the decision, and an ultrasound is going to change that. They discuss it over drinks right before they have pillow fights in their PJ's.
 
2011-03-07 10:50:56 AM

danny_kay: Huh?

FTFA:
"Supporters hope such legislation will deter abortions, contending that women who see an image of the fetus may feel a connection and be less likely to terminate their pregnancy."

That is so silly.

If I'm willing to abort that cluster of cells, seeing a smudge on my ultrasound won't make a difference.


It's not as silly as the opponents who argued against the bill on the basis of "the ultrasound could damage the fetus."
 
2011-03-07 10:52:13 AM

ranak: Yeah dickheads, because every woman that gets an abortion is oh so happy about the decision, and an ultrasound is going to change that. They discuss it over drinks right before they have pillow fights in their PJ's.


No, I think the argument is a different one:

They think that women are such emotional creatures, that they will make the stone-cold decision to abort the precious future bundle of joy, but when presented with a picture they will get all misty-eyed and say "o noes, he's got grampa's ears" and abandon all thoughts of abortion.
 
2011-03-07 10:52:37 AM

ranak: Yeah dickheads, because every woman that gets an abortion is oh so happy about the decision, and an ultrasound is going to change that. They discuss it over drinks right before they have pillow fights in their PJ's.


A+++++ Would read again. I lol'd.
 
2011-03-07 10:53:14 AM

CreamFilling: danny_kay: Huh?

FTFA:
"Supporters hope such legislation will deter abortions, contending that women who see an image of the fetus may feel a connection and be less likely to terminate their pregnancy."

That is so silly.

If I'm willing to abort that cluster of cells, seeing a smudge on my ultrasound won't make a difference.

It's not as silly as the opponents who argued against the bill on the basis of "the ultrasound could damage the fetus."


Really?

Who in their right mind lets brain amputees like these decided such vital issues?
 
2011-03-07 10:54:18 AM

CreamFilling: danny_kay: Huh?

FTFA:
"Supporters hope such legislation will deter abortions, contending that women who see an image of the fetus may feel a connection and be less likely to terminate their pregnancy."

That is so silly.

If I'm willing to abort that cluster of cells, seeing a smudge on my ultrasound won't make a difference.

It's not as silly as the opponents who argued against the bill on the basis of "the ultrasound could damage the fetus."


Then there are bills out there that are being rammed through that will deny an abortion unless the patient can prove she's not being coerced into it and speak with a religious/spiritual counselor. I just want to ask you... what evidence can one produce that it isn't being coerced? I mean, I see the benefit in having an on staff counselor talk the patient through it and make their own medical opinion based on a conversation but you can't mandate that a patient talk to a Jesus freak who will be the one ultimately signing the permission slip.
 
2011-03-07 10:54:22 AM
Hey, why not just call this the "Women Are Unfeeling Biatches and, No, We're Not Going To Pay For This Ultrasound, You Floozy" anti-abortion law.

/What were you sleeping in abstinence class?
 
2011-03-07 10:55:45 AM

EWreckedSean: Some days it is embarrassing to be a Republican.


you mean every day ending in Y?
 
2011-03-07 10:56:14 AM

ranak: Yeah dickheads, because every woman that gets an abortion is oh so happy about the decision, and an ultrasound is going to change that. They discuss it over drinks right before they have pillow fights in their PJ's.


Hang on a second. . . .

Okay. Go on.
 
2011-03-07 10:57:01 AM

KatjaMouse: Then there are bills out there that are being rammed through that will deny an abortion unless the patient can prove she's not being coerced into it and speak with a religious/spiritual counselor.


Uhm...?

This is probably the first time I hear of coerced abortions.

Who are these women supposedly coerced by?
 
2011-03-07 10:57:54 AM
This year, in addition to restricting abortion, curtailing adoptions by gays, limiting gambling and allowing evolution alternatives to be taught in public schools are at the top of the priority list for many social conservatives.

Oh yeah, so if they prevent a woman from having an unwanted baby and she put it up for adoption they will cut out an entire population of people because they're going to corrupt the little angel with their homo agenda.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-03-07 10:58:26 AM
Maybe they read the book and figured they would be out of office by the time the effects were felt.
 
2011-03-07 10:58:57 AM

danny_kay: KatjaMouse: Then there are bills out there that are being rammed through that will deny an abortion unless the patient can prove she's not being coerced into it and speak with a religious/spiritual counselor.

Uhm...?

This is probably the first time I hear of coerced abortions.

Who are these women supposedly coerced by?


The fathers or relatives. It's real, but I'm thinking that 9 out of 10 abortions are requested by grown-ass women making up their own damn minds.
 
2011-03-07 11:01:59 AM

KatjaMouse: danny_kay: KatjaMouse: Then there are bills out there that are being rammed through that will deny an abortion unless the patient can prove she's not being coerced into it and speak with a religious/spiritual counselor.

Uhm...?
This is probably the first time I hear of coerced abortions.
Who are these women supposedly coerced by?

The fathers or relatives. It's real, but I'm thinking that 9 out of 10 abortions are requested by grown-ass women making up their own damn minds.


o.O

One of these days I'm gonna strain something while trying to follow "logic" like this.

Aren't I glad that the silliest thing we currently have over here is a Minister of Defense who plagiarized his thesis...
 
2011-03-07 11:03:07 AM
I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.
 
2011-03-07 11:03:31 AM
FTFA: conservatives in state government look to exert their increased power over social, as well as fiscal, issues.

This single statement is what will be the downfall of the GOP and will facilitate the rise of a third party.
 
2011-03-07 11:05:04 AM
Thank God we elected all of these Small Government Conservatives to ensure that the government can't get involved in the decisions made between a doctor and their patient.

Oh yeah, and to all of you who wonder why they are passing bills like this instead of focusing on jobs, I say - think of the demand for Ultrasound technicians, it's going to increase and create jobs. Why do Liberals hate jobs?

TFA:Currently, only three states - Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana - mandate ultrasounds for women before any abortion

Finally, I don't know about you, but when I think about all the problems that *my* particular state has, "Doesn't emulate Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana often enough" is regularly at the top of that list.
 
2011-03-07 11:05:12 AM

RabidRythmDivas: I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.


I heard one male radio personality say once that if men menstruated or had PMS most businesses would shut down 3-5 days of the month.
 
2011-03-07 11:05:29 AM
I miss the "with all other important matters resolved*" headlines.


*Important matters like curbing government spending, getting out of issues where the government has no business being, lowering taxes, spending less, generally spending less, etc.
 
2011-03-07 11:05:57 AM

KatjaMouse: ...but you can't mandate that a patient talk to a Jesus freak who will be the one ultimately signing the permission slip.


And that's the problem with a representative democracy; These asshats pander to the people that elect them. So yeah, technically they can do exactly that. Not that it wouldn't be challenged, but they can always go back to those who elected them, scream about how they tried to do this "to protect children", and then finger-point and blame anyone that stood against them.
 
2011-03-07 11:06:27 AM

KatjaMouse: RabidRythmDivas: I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.

I heard one male radio personality say once that if men menstruated or had PMS most businesses would shut down 3-5 days of the month.


not worth it
 
2011-03-07 11:06:45 AM

ranak: Yeah dickheads, because every woman that gets an abortion is oh so happy about the decision, and an ultrasound is going to change that. They discuss it over drinks right before they have pillow fights in their PJ's.


They sure are (new window)!
 
2011-03-07 11:08:03 AM
Are they gonna double taxes to pay for these?
 
2011-03-07 11:09:15 AM

ranak: And that's the problem with a representative democracy; These asshats pander to the people that elect them. So yeah, technically they can do exactly that. Not that it wouldn't be challenged, but they can always go back to those who elected them, scream about how they tried to do this "to protect children", and then finger-point and blame anyone that stood against them.


Or they do the same about healthcare, welfare, or other social services.

But what other system would you like outside of ours?
 
2011-03-07 11:09:30 AM

Foundling: Are they gonna double taxes to pay for these?


They'll probably make Planned Parenthood pay for it and then watch that program fall like a house of cards while they laugh manically.
 
2011-03-07 11:10:37 AM

RabidRythmDivas: I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.


Florynce Kennedy called. Something about a sacrament.
 
2011-03-07 11:13:42 AM
What if the woman is blind & deaf? Do they have a braile version of the ultrasound?
 
2011-03-07 11:14:01 AM

RabidRythmDivas: I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.


Not likely.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first - time.aspx
For the most part, conservative women are pro life and liberal men are pro choice.
 
2011-03-07 11:15:53 AM
conservatives in state government look to exert their increased power over social, as well as fiscal, issues.

Isn't it so wonderful that the party of small government now wants to get into every womans vagina?

/why do they have to be such dicks?
 
2011-03-07 11:16:11 AM

ronaprhys: But what other system would you like outside of ours?


None. But I would like to see some common sense from our elected officials. And i'll get that... right after I get the pony ride to Mars.
 
2011-03-07 11:18:34 AM

aprentic: RabidRythmDivas: I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.

Not likely.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first - time.aspx
For the most part, conservative women are pro life and liberal men are pro choice.


Yeah, I believe that study is from the CURRENT universe where men CAN'T get pregnant. If you have access to a similar survey in a universe where men CAN get pregnant, I would love to see it.

TIA
 
2011-03-07 11:22:19 AM

abhorrent1: Abortion limits? So like, I can only make my girlfriend have 5 or something then I'm out of abortions?


Just wait till the end of the month and your quota will reset.
 
2011-03-07 11:23:15 AM
Fark freakonomics, fark Steve Leavitt for being so frequently discredited and having non-repeatable results, and fark the education system for leading so many people to believe that doing math is so hard that they should just trust dbags like him.
 
2011-03-07 11:23:45 AM

aprentic: http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first - time.aspx


One more thing . . . "Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?" is a false dichotomy.
 
2011-03-07 11:24:08 AM

jsobota: I'm curious.
If a woman refuses to look at the ultrasound (close her eyes, turn her head, wear a blindfold, etc.) doesn't that kind of beat the idea behind this and similar bills?

Now I know most (all) abortion bills aren't so much about protecting the child as they are about punishing the mother, especially because they typically come right before or after a bill gutting social services. This just seems like one more way to pass blame, guilt and judgement on a woman.


A little blame on the woman and dad is necessary but its shuold be geared toward don't farking get pregnant unless you can afford to raise that kid without government assistance. Some effective sex education and some stigma guilt and judgment needs to be applied. Carrot and stick.

Abortions are cheaper that welfare but its only a second best solution given how many keep the baby.
 
2011-03-07 11:25:02 AM

ronaprhys: ranak: And that's the problem with a representative democracy; These asshats pander to the people that elect them. So yeah, technically they can do exactly that. Not that it wouldn't be challenged, but they can always go back to those who elected them, scream about how they tried to do this "to protect children", and then finger-point and blame anyone that stood against them.

Or they do the same about healthcare, welfare, or other social services.

But what other system would you like outside of ours?


Don't get me wrong, I love you Americans and I still owe y'all a beer or three for the whole getting-rid-of-the-guy-with-the-silly-mustache thing.

But, it's really *not* a problem of the system.

It's a problem of the populace.

For some reason you've been brewing a metric ass-ton of fundamentalists.
And now they vote fundamentalist, which results in fundamentalist laws. It's that simple.
Quite frankly, this is proof for the old adage that every people get the government they deserve.

Good luck with that particular Gordian's Knot.
 
2011-03-07 11:27:25 AM

danny_kay: But, it's really *not* a problem of the system.

It's a problem of the populace.

For some reason you've been brewing a metric ass-ton of fundamentalists.


Yeah... that's the unfortunate draw back for the First Amendment.
 
2011-03-07 11:30:03 AM

RabidRythmDivas: aprentic: RabidRythmDivas: I wish men could get pregnant. Then we'd have RU-486 vending machines in the Walmarts.

Not likely.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first - time.aspx
For the most part, conservative women are pro life and liberal men are pro choice.

Yeah, I believe that study is from the CURRENT universe where men CAN'T get pregnant. If you have access to a similar survey in a universe where men CAN get pregnant, I would love to see it.

TIA


Yes. It's because I'm too lazy to reach across universes to get their surveys. Instead I'll do the best I can analyzing the survey I have on hand.
As you can see men and women are fairly evenly split on which side of the abortion debate they fall on.
So in this universe the ability to get pregnant doesn't seem to make women overwhelmingly pro-choice nor does the inability thereof seem to make men overwhelmingly pro-life.
This suggests to me that the ability to get pregnant is not the driving factor behind abortion philosophy.
Sure, it's possible that in an other universe the ability to get pregnant may be a significant factor but evidence from our universe does not support that hypothesis.
 
2011-03-07 11:31:14 AM
Seeing the ultrasound makes no difference. Having just seen a grainy image of a 6 week old fetus, both me and my wife are more than prepared to terminate it if medical issues persist.
 
2011-03-07 11:32:45 AM

danny_kay: Don't get me wrong, I love you Americans and I still owe y'all a beer or three for the whole getting-rid-of-the-guy-with-the-silly-mustache thing.


Make it a Southern Comfort and OJ (that's what I drank when I was last in Ireland. It makes me happy) and we'll definitely drain a few for the good things.

But, it's really *not* a problem of the system.

It's a problem of the populace.


Yes and no - I think it's a problem for all populaces. The bigger issue with ours is that we're so widespread and heterogeneous. When you mix bunches of different cultures and population densities you're going to get a large number of different groups. Unfortunately, as we get more power in the Federal vs the State and local population, we get more nonsense. If we could rein in the Feds a bit and leave more issues to the States, we might have less problems.

Wouldn't prevent something like this, but then we'd be closer to letting the local population decide what they want.

For some reason you've been brewing a metric ass-ton of fundamentalists.
And now they vote fundamentalist, which results in fundamentalist laws. It's that simple.
Quite frankly, this is proof for the old adage that every people get the government they deserve.

Good luck with that particular Gordian's Knot.



Yeah - I'd say it's almost more reactionary. When Bush was in office we had a huge liberal upswelling in getting the vote out. Once they got who they wanted in office, it led directly to this particular swing of the pendulum.
 
2011-03-07 11:35:01 AM
This is a serious domestic issue because more Floridians is not in anyone's interests. I propose raising the age limit to the 27th trimester.
 
2011-03-07 11:35:05 AM

RabidRythmDivas: aprentic: http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first - time.aspx

One more thing . . . "Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?" is a false dichotomy.


I agree that the abortion debate should be far more nuanced than pro-life vs pro-choice. Unfortunately my anecdotal evidence suggests that, in the US at least, it is not. The vast majority of people I have talked to about the matter fall squarely into one camp or the other.
 
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