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(Some Guy)   Ah Britain, the only country on earth where your home is more likely to be repossessed if you pay off your entire mortgage   (dailyexpress.co.uk) divider line 101
    More: Dumbass, Ah Britain, care homes, mortgages, England and Wales  
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24851 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Mar 2011 at 6:49 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-03-06 04:59:05 PM  
I'm not entirely sure how the law works in Britian, but a possible solution to this:

File a lien against yourself for the full amount of the house's value. No bank will file a mortgage with that in place, and if the house is sold, the buyers will have to pay off the lien (so you'll get something out of it, even if you have to move.)

Of course, the mere fact that such methods have to be in place to keep someone from outright stealing farking real estate, because the deed office can't do their jobs, is outright ludicrous, but still.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-03-06 05:12:35 PM  
Sim Tree

A long time ago I read about the evolution of common law in England. Sham transactions were common to get around what now appear to be silly restrictions about who could sue whom for what.

You may not be able to file a lien against yourself. Have a good friend or relative loan you a pound secured by the property. Record the debt. Possibly the creditor will be notified of a sale, or get a pound in the mail. Or possibly that only works for mortgage companies and not mere people.
 
2011-03-06 05:34:22 PM  
Google the term "Deed Fraud". It happens here more often than you can believe.

http://titlesearchblog.com/2009/01/29/deed-fraud-in-new-york-city-for-real-this - time/

http://www.loansafe.org/new-york-city-implements-mortgage-fraud-alert-system
 
2011-03-06 05:57:31 PM  
I can see how it might be annoying getting it sorted out, but in the end it should be the folks who lent the money who are out, shouldn't it?
 
2011-03-06 06:30:59 PM  

EvilEgg: I can see how it might be annoying getting it sorted out, but in the end it should be the folks who lent the money who are out, shouldn't it?


Ha. Ha. You really don't know much about the British legal system, do you? They arrest homeowners for putting fences around property because trespassers may be hurt climbing the fence or cutting through it. They have made it a criminal offense to put gates across garden sheds because of the injury danger to burglars. And, of course, there are people in British prisons at this moment who defended their property against armed intruders with weapons that they were allowed to own, but because they were effective in their own defense, the court decided that the poor home invaders got hurt too much.

The British criminal justice system exists to criminalize any behavior which might benefit the individual, and doles out pittances in the way of punishments to youths and adults who create an unlivable environment in and around council homes. People biatch about how the US has an imprisonment fetish (and they're right), but truly, there is a middle ground between the idiotic system over there, and our idiotic system over here. At least here (in most states) you can actually use force to protect yourself and your home.
 
2011-03-06 06:53:02 PM  
Britain isn't a country.
 
2011-03-06 06:54:54 PM  
Meh. In the States we call that "getting Indymacked"
 
2011-03-06 07:06:30 PM  
Quick, someone get the consumerist on board and get them out of this country!
 
2011-03-06 07:06:51 PM  
Once again, the banks take no responsibility for their actions. This time, instead of sub-prime loans, they can hire crooks to do the dirty work and the banks get the property. Sounds like a plan.
 
2011-03-06 07:09:57 PM  
Is there anything Anonymous can do to these dickbags? Or anyone? I kinda feel those that commit ID theft should be treated as murderers or child molesters.
 
2011-03-06 07:11:07 PM  
Trevor Guy, who owns land in Manchester, had his property stolen by fraudsters who took out a mortgage for more than £100million. He took the case to court, but while the court did not dispute he was the rightful owner, he was deemed liable for the debt charge run up by the crooks.

Eah, good luck with 'at, mate.
 
2011-03-06 07:11:13 PM  
Never heard of BOA I take it?
 
2011-03-06 07:12:39 PM  

deSelby: Britain isn't a country.


Came here to say that; leaving sated.
 
2011-03-06 07:18:20 PM  
"Repossess" does not equal "Stolen". This article is about criminals using identity theft to STEAL property, not reposess it.
 
2011-03-06 07:20:44 PM  
A house is not an investment.
 
2011-03-06 07:21:18 PM  

dahmers love zombie: They arrest homeowners for putting fences around property because trespassers may be hurt climbing the fence or cutting through it. They have made it a criminal offense to put gates across garden sheds because of the injury danger to burglars.


A potential civil liability and a criminal offence are not the same thing.
 
2011-03-06 07:21:44 PM  
"He added that he believed the problem was "substantial" and would be growing at an exponential rate after this article."
 
2011-03-06 07:25:24 PM  

voran: Is there anything Anonymous can do to these dickbags? Or anyone? I kinda feel those that commit ID theft should be treated as murderers or child molesters.


I'm pretty sure Anonymous normally works by committing ID theft, at least on the small scale (hacking, etc). So that's kinda like asking the child molesters to police the child molesters by molesting them.
 
2011-03-06 07:25:52 PM  
"The lender only finds out when the bank account runs dry, with the real property deed holder left liable for the debt."

---- I does not work like that. You can't be make liable for debt
 
2011-03-06 07:26:42 PM  

vgss: Trevor Guy, who owns land in Manchester, had his property stolen by fraudsters who took out a mortgage for more than £100million. He took the case to court, but while the court did not dispute he was the rightful owner, he was deemed liable for the debt charge run up by the crooks.

Eah, good luck with 'at, mate.


That is serioulsy farked up.
 
2011-03-06 07:28:00 PM  
Our county recorder of deeds has an arrangement with this outfit: Link (new window) There is no charge. We participate.

It also helps that the land records are on-line and up to date. Periodically I take a quick look at ours and my mothers property to see if any changes have been made.

I like SimCitys idea of a lien on our own property.
 
2011-03-06 07:28:26 PM  
Daily Express - finding stories to run on the days that they can't find anything good to say about Princess Diana or anything bad to say about brown people

/believe this shiat at your peril
 
2011-03-06 07:29:18 PM  
They are easily able to do this because land certificates have been abolished and all property titles in England and Wales are published online.

There are, it would seem, some disadvantages to the convenience of having a paperless society.
 
2011-03-06 07:33:26 PM  

Basiorana: voran: Is there anything Anonymous can do to these dickbags? Or anyone? I kinda feel those that commit ID theft should be treated as murderers or child molesters.

I'm pretty sure Anonymous normally works by committing ID theft, at least on the small scale (hacking, etc). So that's kinda like asking the child molesters to police the child molesters by molesting them.


Is that kind of like Chris Hanson policing the child molesters by hiring a forty-year-old woman to pretend to be twelve and inviting a potential molester to show up at the house to molest them?
 
2011-03-06 07:33:44 PM  
>>EvilEgg
Ha. Ha. You really don't know much about the British legal system, do you? They arrest homeowners for putting fences around property because trespassers may be hurt climbing the fence or cutting through it. They have made it a criminal offense to put gates across garden sheds because of the injury danger to burglars. And, of course, there are people in British prisons at this moment who defended their property against armed intruders with weapons that they were allowed to own, but because they were effective in their own defense, the court decided that the poor home invaders got hurt too much.



This paragraph is all lies. I'm not sure why an American feels the need to lie about the British legal system (did you get a parking ticket while visiting or something, and feel all butthurt about it?), but there it is.
 
2011-03-06 07:36:13 PM  

Ambivalence: "Repossess" does not equal "Stolen". This article is about criminals using identity theft to STEAL property, not reposess it.


Yes, criminals who then use that property that they don't tangibly possess as collateral to secure loans for REAL money they that don't pay back, which results in the stolen property being 'repossessed'.
 
2011-03-06 07:38:01 PM  
So really, in this case, it's all win for the banks. I don't get why they don't go out and just commit the fraud themselves, since apparently the police aren't arresting anyone and the homeowners are liable for all of the loans taken out.
 
2011-03-06 07:39:35 PM  

dahmers love zombie: EvilEgg: I can see how it might be annoying getting it sorted out, but in the end it should be the folks who lent the money who are out, shouldn't it?

Ha. Ha. You really don't know much about the British legal system, do you? They arrest homeowners for putting fences around property because trespassers may be hurt climbing the fence or cutting through it. They have made it a criminal offense to put gates across garden sheds because of the injury danger to burglars. And, of course, there are people in British prisons at this moment who defended their property against armed intruders with weapons that they were allowed to own, but because they were effective in their own defense, the court decided that the poor home invaders got hurt too much.

The British criminal justice system exists to criminalize any behavior which might benefit the individual, and doles out pittances in the way of punishments to youths and adults who create an unlivable environment in and around council homes. People biatch about how the US has an imprisonment fetish (and they're right), but truly, there is a middle ground between the idiotic system over there, and our idiotic system over here. At least here (in most states) you can actually use force to protect yourself and your home.


Translation:

I am a wanker
 
2011-03-06 07:40:45 PM  

EvilEgg: I can see how it might be annoying getting it sorted out, but in the end it should be the folks who lent the money who are out, shouldn't it?


Yeah. I can't see how the homeowner should be held liable for something they didn't agree to.
 
2011-03-06 07:41:32 PM  
That's also been happening in the US. The banks weren't even keeping good morgtage records in the bubble that led to the crash.
 
2011-03-06 07:44:33 PM  
If you think this hasn't been happening in the US, you aren't paying attention.
 
2011-03-06 07:45:03 PM  

Basiorana: voran: Is there anything Anonymous can do to these dickbags? Or anyone? I kinda feel those that commit ID theft should be treated as murderers or child molesters.

I'm pretty sure Anonymous normally works by committing ID theft, at least on the small scale (hacking, etc). So that's kinda like asking the child molesters to police the child molesters by molesting them.


So...you're for it, then?
 
2011-03-06 07:47:52 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Google the term "Deed Fraud". It happens here more often than you can believe.


When I bought my house, one of the closing costs was title insurance which covered expenses just in case the prior ownership of the house by the seller ever came under dispute.
 
2011-03-06 07:48:50 PM  

Anayalator: Meh. In the States we call that "getting Indymacked"


Don't forget Skank of America.
 
2011-03-06 07:55:51 PM  

Candyman: >>EvilEgg
Ha. Ha. You really don't know much about the British legal system, do you? They arrest homeowners for putting fences around property because trespassers may be hurt climbing the fence or cutting through it. They have made it a criminal offense to put gates across garden sheds because of the injury danger to burglars. And, of course, there are people in British prisons at this moment who defended their property against armed intruders with weapons that they were allowed to own, but because they were effective in their own defense, the court decided that the poor home invaders got hurt too much.


This paragraph is all lies. I'm not sure why an American feels the need to lie about the British legal system (did you get a parking ticket while visiting or something, and feel all butthurt about it?), but there it is.


It was actually civil suit liability from putting wire mesh over outbuilding windows. (click-pop)

The whole prosecuting-the-home-invasion-defender thing was because he chased them down. (click-pop)

To be fair, the original poster is a Fox-News-watching idiot, but both of those linked examples show clear problems within the courts system of England. The problem, as I see it, is that bureaucracy is getting in the way of common sense.

/this seems to be a problem throughout western governments in general
 
2011-03-06 07:59:59 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: BunkyBrewman: Google the term "Deed Fraud". It happens here more often than you can believe.

When I bought my house, one of the closing costs was title insurance which covered expenses just in case the prior ownership of the house by the seller ever came under dispute.



I guess Brits don't have title examiners? In the U.S., before a piece of real estate can be sold or mortgaged (at least when a bank is involved), someone performs a title search. Whoever approved these deed transfers or mortgages should be on the hook here.
 
2011-03-06 08:00:08 PM  

mikdeetx: Once again, the banks take no responsibility for their actions. This time, instead of sub-prime loans, they can hire crooks to do the dirty work and the banks get the property. Sounds like a plan.


And what's more...not one single investor, realtor or bank executive who made billions off the backs of hard working citizens who lost their homes have been brought to justice.
 
2011-03-06 08:03:37 PM  

Excen: Candyman: >>EvilEgg
Ha. Ha. You really don't know much about the British legal system, do you? They arrest homeowners for putting fences around property because trespassers may be hurt climbing the fence or cutting through it. They have made it a criminal offense to put gates across garden sheds because of the injury danger to burglars. And, of course, there are people in British prisons at this moment who defended their property against armed intruders with weapons that they were allowed to own, but because they were effective in their own defense, the court decided that the poor home invaders got hurt too much.


This paragraph is all lies. I'm not sure why an American feels the need to lie about the British legal system (did you get a parking ticket while visiting or something, and feel all butthurt about it?), but there it is.

It was actually civil suit liability from putting wire mesh over outbuilding windows. (click-pop)

The whole prosecuting-the-home-invasion-defender thing was because he chased them down. (click-pop)

To be fair, the original poster is a Fox-News-watching idiot, but both of those linked examples show clear problems within the courts system of England. The problem, as I see it, is that bureaucracy is getting in the way of common sense.

/this seems to be a problem throughout western governments in general


pwnd
 
2011-03-06 08:09:09 PM  

Excen: It was actually civil suit liability from putting wire mesh over outbuilding windows. (click-pop)

The whole prosecuting-the-home-invasion-defender thing was because he chased them down. (click-pop)

To be fair, the original poster is a Fox-News-watching idiot, but both of those linked examples show clear problems within the courts system of England. The problem, as I see it, is that bureaucracy is getting in the way of common sense.


The problem is people assuming that they understand the facts of a case and posting talking points like those you just posted.

If you chase a guy down and beat him half to death with your son, you may face charges even if he's a bad guy.
 
2011-03-06 08:11:16 PM  
You don't think this doesn't happen in the US? Why do you think title insurance exists?
 
2011-03-06 08:12:09 PM  
pussies.. In Mexico, the cartels take you to a public notary and make you sign your land/home/etc away.

csb: I know of a mexican public notary that was put in the line to complete one of these transactions. Either he helped the drug dealer or him and his family would die. He and his family do not live in Mexico anymore, they moved to Chile (his wife is from there). :S

csb2: I have a friend that had to give away his house and a small office building this way. He now lives with his in-laws.

csb3: a friend of my dad was kidnapped about 4-5 months ago. The kidnappers wanted money and some land. After 4-5 days of torturing him (as he kept saying that land wasn't his), they took him to his house and told him: "sorry, we got the wrong guy we have nothing against you." He told us that the place that they took him was housing at least a dozen victims and that he could hear the cries for help of said persons. At least 2 were women and they were being raped daily.

SCARY shiat....
 
2011-03-06 08:16:34 PM  

Excen: The whole prosecuting-the-home-invasion-defender thing was because he chased them down. (click-pop)



Yeah, you can't really do that in the U.S. either. Although there was a story about a jewelery store owner in Tampa a few years ago who ran over a fleeing suspect with his SUV while he was on the phone with 911. The owner said he was just trying to follow the guy, who had taken a bank deposit bag full of money, until police could respond and arrest him. He said running the guy over was an accident, but he was still charged with murder. The jury either believed it was an accident or they just didn't give a shiat, because they acquitted the owner.
 
2011-03-06 08:18:09 PM  

luckyeddie: Translation:

I am a wanker


That you are. The guy lays out a two paragraph long post on how he sees things and the best you can do, rather than offer criticism--even stupid, pointless criticism, is to do some name calling. This is Fark, the least you can do is make some snarky comments and insult his mother. But that effort? You are a wanker. And your mother is a whore.
 
2011-03-06 08:26:27 PM  

ZAZ: Sim Tree

A long time ago I read about the evolution of common law in England. Sham transactions were common to get around what now appear to be silly restrictions about who could sue whom for what.

You may not be able to file a lien against yourself. Have a good friend or relative loan you a pound secured by the property. Record the debt. Possibly the creditor will be notified of a sale, or get a pound in the mail. Or possibly that only works for mortgage companies and not mere people.


For absolutely no good reason I am going to explain this.

It was for centuries impossible to convey good title to yourself. This become a problem when you, the owner, wants to make you and your wife or you and your children the owner.

The solution was a "straw man deed". Yes, the original straw man. One deed was made from original owner to straw man and the straw man signed a deed back to the original owner and the others. It became sufficiently ritualized that it was consolidated into one deed. Indeed, the consolidated owner to straw party back to owner and others deed was created in American so people did not have to pay two recording fees.

I am not your lawyer.

I offer no opinion on what the law of your place maybe.

/Especially you, you farked up Louisianians.
//The mortgage to friend, which is recorded, with simultaneously executed deed of release kept by your barrister, is a sweet solution.
 
2011-03-06 08:35:02 PM  

Farksteron: SCARY shiat....


One of my contractors was late to work a couple weeks ago because on his drive in he was carjacked at gunpoint (this is in Monterrey). The whole country seems to be going up in flames, which is really sad considering how beautiful a lot of it is. Soon enough, it will be like Jamaica, where guards armed with M-16s patrol the tourist areas and prevent the riff-raff from coming in contact with them.
 
2011-03-06 08:39:10 PM  

luckyeddie: Daily Express - finding stories to run on the days that they can't find anything good to say about Princess Diana or anything bad to say about brown people

/believe this shiat at your peril



Or you could verify if it was correct......... nah too much work eh?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23688648-is-lucky-landi n g-in-more-trouble.do

http://www.maitlandchambers.com/cases/detail.asp?CaseID=1074

http://www.pla.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/75197/Rectification_-_Appx_C. p df
 
2011-03-06 08:42:05 PM  

CowboyNinjaD: TheMysteriousStranger: BunkyBrewman: Google the term "Deed Fraud". It happens here more often than you can believe.

When I bought my house, one of the closing costs was title insurance which covered expenses just in case the prior ownership of the house by the seller ever came under dispute.


I guess Brits don't have title examiners? In the U.S., before a piece of real estate can be sold or mortgaged (at least when a bank is involved), someone performs a title search. Whoever approved these deed transfers or mortgages should be on the hook here.



Apparently they are.

FTA: "In 2009-10, the Land Registry, the state body which holds all records of UK properties, paid £4.9million for 53 claims arising from fraud and forgery..."

The state actually PAID for its farkups? Woah.

Why can I not imagine this happening in the US?
 
2011-03-06 08:43:50 PM  

Another Government Employee: You don't think this doesn't happen in the US? Why do you think title insurance exists?



To protect the lien holder?
 
2011-03-06 08:44:09 PM  

Shaggy_C: So really, in this case, it's all win for the banks. I don't get why they don't go out and just commit the fraud themselves, since apparently the police aren't arresting anyone and the homeowners are liable for all of the loans taken out.


Not saying that the banks shouldn't be liable for their negligence, but the bank isn't being repaid its loan. So it's not like it's all win for the bank.

In fact it's all win for the crook, and lose-lose for the bank and home-owner.

In a just system, the home-owner who did nothing wrong should be left blameless and the bank should be on the hook for whatever their losses are. This would put the burden of preventing the loss on the proper party.
 
2011-03-06 08:47:34 PM  

Farksteron: pussies.. In Mexico, the cartels take you to a public notary and make you sign your land/home/etc away.

csb: I know of a mexican public notary that was put in the line to complete one of these transactions. Either he helped the drug dealer or him and his family would die. He and his family do not live in Mexico anymore, they moved to Chile (his wife is from there). :S

csb2: I have a friend that had to give away his house and a small office building this way. He now lives with his in-laws.

csb3: a friend of my dad was kidnapped about 4-5 months ago. The kidnappers wanted money and some land. After 4-5 days of torturing him (as he kept saying that land wasn't his), they took him to his house and told him: "sorry, we got the wrong guy we have nothing against you." He told us that the place that they took him was housing at least a dozen victims and that he could hear the cries for help of said persons. At least 2 were women and they were being raped daily.

SCARY shiat....



Sorry, but those are NOT cool stories, bro.

/The border is like a sieve
//The migration trends north
///Do not want
 
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