#WINNING

hey man, nice shot

One shot, bro, one shot!

Yay, freedom! Whatever comes, the pride of this day will live forever.

vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

TheShavingofOccam123: One shot, bro, one shot!

No one said it was one shot.

One barrel - yes
One day - yes....

This guy could have been peppering the sky all day and accidentally hit the bomber.

Glad they destroyed the plane.
Hope the guy ejected and lives to enjoy a free, democratic Libya. Wish this whole thing could happen without more bloodshed, but know that it can't.

Working an anti-aircraft gun for the first time with only one barrel firing couldn't stop one Libyan from shooting down a Gaddafi jet (w/ video)

But not video of the actual downing

Nice troll subby

-1

Any proof other than a downed jet and some people that have every reason to make shiat up?

Mugato: When did we start spelling Gaddaffi with a G? When I was a kid it was with a K. Then a QU. I mean it doesn't matter. Since they don't have the same alphabet as us, it's all arbitrarily made up anyway. I just think there should be a consensus.

"Gadhafi" is how the man himself spelled it, in a letter.

Kar98: vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

If you hit the cockpit? Sure... If you hit a hydraulic line... on a poorly maintained soviet scrap-heap reject? Yeah.


While we're at it, fighter-bomber is indeed a correct term. The F15E and 18 both fill that role, in various configurations. We usually call them "strike fighters" in the west, though. Fighter-bomber is a bit of an outdated term.

SgtKashim: If you hit the cockpit? Sure... If you hit a hydraulic line... on a poorly maintained soviet scrap-heap reject? Yeah.


While we're at it, fighter-bomber is indeed a correct term. The F15E and 18 both fill that role, in various configurations. We usually call them "strike fighters" in the west, though. Fighter-bomber is a bit of an outdated term.

Not to mention, I thought on some of those models (particularily older ones) you had to manually arm the ejection seat before takeoff, to prevent accidental ignition during handling. They are, essentially, seats with bombs and rockets strapped to the bottom.

Kar98: vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

Stills from other sites seem to show a SU-24. IIRC Libya only had 6 to begin with.

I hope all these countries get hard line islamists in power and they all ally with iran and finally push israel in the sea.

1:09 in the video: I see Rob Liefeld is designing uniforms for the Libyan rebels.

fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

Dinodork: Kar98: vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

Stills from other sites seem to show a SU-24. IIRC Libya only had 6 to begin with.

Right. I was just playing the odds here. 6 SU 24 vs. 40-ish SU 22.

Big deal. I shot down over 100 krauts with anti-aircraft gun in "Secret Weapons Over Normandy".

Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

That always pisses me off. Your gun is not an air horn.

SgtKashim:
What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

If you hit the cockpit? Sure... If you hit a hydraulic line... on a poorly maintained soviet scrap-heap reject? Yeah.

Also: weapon appears to be an old ZPU-4, firing 14.5mm ammo from quad KPV. That caliber ammo can really ruin your day.

Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

Hence the bread.

shawn82: Hence the bread.



A WINRAR IS YOU

Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

Kar98: Dinodork: Kar98: vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

Stills from other sites seem to show a SU-24. IIRC Libya only had 6 to begin with.

Right. I was just playing the odds here. 6 SU 24 vs. 40-ish SU 22.

Can you cite sources on those numbers? I'm curious myself. All I can find, though, is about 450 planes total and 50-ish helicopters.

Did find some nice photos, though...
Needs some repair...

dervish16108: Big deal. I shot down over 100 krauts with anti-aircraft gun in "Secret Weapons Over Normandy".

Meh, grandpa killed over 80 men on the beaches of Normandy with a BAR. Too bad it was 1954....

Airfoilsguy: Working an anti-aircraft gun for the first time with only one barrel firing couldn't stop one Libyan from shooting down a Gaddafi jet (w/ video)

But not video of the actual downing

Nice troll subby

-1

I enjoyed more the video of the chick with the nice rack on the sidebar: Carol's saucy tongue...

I've been buried in work for the past 5 days. I heard an NPR broadcast of some rebels stealing a tank -- almost made me cry -- and not much more. Is anybody going to help these guys?

shawn82: Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

Hence the bread.

Some people call it a helmet, I call it a Kaiser Roll mmhmm.

ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

approves:

Too bad Charlie Wilson's dead. These guys could really use some Stingers.

HoozierDaddy: Yay, freedom! Whatever comes, the pride of this day will live forever.

And in one, two, maybe ten years, one of the guys we see in that video will be the next one whose picture is being burned and whose jets are being shot down as the people once again "liberate" their homeland by burning it down and the idiots in the media cheer on democracy in action.

I guess the pilot wasnt pedaling fast enough.

Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

No, they aren't aware.
The chances of hitting someone with a bullet shot in the sky are slim. The chances of doing it when you live in a farking desert are practically zero.
It only happens in the US because our idiots go out on new years and shoot into the sky over a crowded city full of party goers who went outside to watch the fireworks.

/Even then, its a pretty rare event.
/I bet most of us only know because of the Mythbusters.

What flag are they flying? I thought Libya's flag was just plain green

CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

I didn't see a downed jet.
Pics of pile of jet bits? Pics of tail number? Pics of smoldering wreckage? Video of jet going down? Since they had video of firing the AA gun and video of waving mystery metal bits around?

screenshot or it didn't happen

Kar98: CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

I didn't see a downed jet.
Pics of pile of jet bits? Pics of tail number? Pics of smoldering wreckage? Video of jet going down? Since they had video of firing the AA gun and video of waving mystery metal bits around?

you know how i know you haven't read the entire thread?

Norad: Mugato: I just think there should be a consensus.

There wasn't a consensus back in the mid 1980's, when Libya was front and center in the news either. There were similar "How do we spell this guy's name?" sidebar stories back then, too.

Some things never change.

War. War never changes.

RocketRay: Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

That seems pretty cut and dried actually. Nice find.

Barfmaker: I suppose I'll go ahead and call bullshiat.

So they hit this thing, with one barrel, on the first day, and not only shot it down, but the pilot and the guy who wishes he was a pilot didn't eject?

I'm not saying there isn't a jet embedded in the desert, I'm just saying this probably isn't how it happened.

And take into account that if you're a dictator, what's more valuable: planes or pilots? Planes of course. Don't let the crew eject and they're *far* more likely to try to save the plane in a marginal situation.

BlackCat23: Kar98: CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

I didn't see a downed jet.
Pics of pile of jet bits? Pics of tail number? Pics of smoldering wreckage? Video of jet going down? Since they had video of firing the AA gun and video of waving mystery metal bits around?

you know how i know you haven't read the entire thread?

Are you retarded?

Of coarse it is bullshiat.
Most of it is all BS.

Just like most of the supposed conflicts that have been claimed in Lybia. Does it mean that no one hates Gadaffi, of coarse there are going to be dissenters. Just like there are dissenters here in the US who oppose our own figureheads.

All this drama in the oil nations are being promoted by us western nations to cause the oil prices to skyrocket. The goal for which is to continue to elude that we have enemies abroad while debasing our dollar. Which will force the international markets to abandon the US dollar and cause us to go further toward inflation.

International provocateurs are adding fuel to the fire everyday.
While governments play the role of helpless onlookers waiting for the drama to begin to irritate people so much that the UN will finally rear its head and with simple words as allow international interference in Lybia.

New medias rolls their heads and the audience (who are unaware of political and resource?financial gains) roll their heads as well.
The pressure build and builds, while little if anything other than people on the outskirts of their country shout and riot. For what?

More than half the population of Lybia is in is capitol Tripoli and there is nothing, zero unrest. Show the proof. Besides hating on its time faded leader. Show the proof.

These are all staged events to play on peoples minds to get each and everyone of you to believe that communities and local governments are useless to the word of the UN.

Remember, the farther away you are from interacting with your government body, the more corrupt the behavior by said government.

Day after day I see these reports with ZERO evidence except pictures of dissenters and words, hearsay. Do I support Gadaffi, no I don't.

The real question each and everyone of you needs to ask is WHY has all this fighting erupted after YEARS of peace in the region.

Hint: It has to do with Debasing ones government for their Money and Resources.
Hint 2: US & UK are FFS.

Step one: Pay people off to riot for WHATEVER.
Step two: Lie to the international world about it.
Step three: Play innocence.
Step four: Wait for a new war of new government to take hold in region of conflict.
Step five: Profit.

Same old Shiat.
Yawn!

So you guys want another war, huh?

The 2nd Amendment in action! "Tyranny from without AND within" God Bless them, their warriors and their families. That could never happen here..right?....HEY!.....RIGHT?

Kar98: BlackCat23: Kar98: CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

I didn't see a downed jet.
Pics of pile of jet bits? Pics of tail number? Pics of smoldering wreckage? Video of jet going down? Since they had video of firing the AA gun and video of waving mystery metal bits around?

you know how i know you haven't read the entire thread?

Are you retarded?

fark. sorry. my snarkmeter has been broken for like a month. I blame Wisconsin.

/sorry
//*shame*

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: What flag are they flying? I thought Libya's flag was just plain green

that's the pre-Gaddafi flag.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Libya

Makes sense for them to replace Gaddafi's flag and Gaddafi's system in their revolution.

@people who dont believe for lack of video


Because if a plane is trying to drop bombs near me I'm going to stand near the thing shooting at the plane.

I thought the first rule of warfare was to never attract attention to yourself.

mirazh1976: rambling BS

You might need to loosen up your tin-foil hat a bit.

Voiceofreason01: zenobia: I've been buried in work for the past 5 days. I heard an NPR broadcast of some rebels stealing a tank -- almost made me cry -- and not much more. Is anybody going to help these guys?

The rebels seem to be winning, though it would be nice if somebody would help to ensure that Gaddafi can't leave the country and ends up in the hands of the rebels.

Yeah, I'm really hoping for a Romania-type ending to this. That was an awesome Christmas.

Phoenix87ta: mirazh1976: rambling BS

You might need to loosen up your tin-foil hat a bit.

And learn how to spell course

Je5tEr: dervish16108: Big deal. I shot down over 100 krauts with anti-aircraft gun in "Secret Weapons Over Normandy".

Meh, grandpa killed over 80 men on the beaches of Normandy with a BAR. Too bad it was 1954....

Lol

Best laugh I've had all day.

Fark is like...weird and stuff.

Iraq/Afgani war: Fark (and almost every other "social media" website) calls the US "military industrial complex" murderers and torturers and wish only for peace, flowers, unicorns, "no blood for oil", and start singing John Lennon songs in between bong hits.

Yet here we have pilots being shot down/killed, other pilots being captured (and likely tortured), rampant chaos and looting and raping and pillaging and other such Viking-esque behavior... and everyone turns into blood-thirsty lunatics and cheer.

/and "blood for oil" is actually more appropriate HERE than it was in Iraq.
//but I guess I dont really care....I'm more looking forward to the next Call of Duty: Libya with more flight missions over Libya - or getting to play the guy with the ghetto-gun trying to shoot down a plane.

Please continue my favorite little hiveminders.

mirazh1976: Of coarse it is bullshiat.
Most of it is all BS.

Personally, I blame the Jews.

In 1999, Serbian defences managed to shoot down an F-117 "Stealth" fighter/bomber. "Lucky shots" aren't out of the question.

To toast!

I suppose the 'loyal' pilots who were taking off and flying around but not trying too hard to hit anything will now rethink their strategy.

My impression is that there have been relatively few casualties in this revolt, maybe a thousand or two (as opposed to the 86 who died at Waco in one day) so things could get quite ugly. Killing unarmed crowds is one thing, but dropping fire on people who are shooting at you is quite another.

Nuno311: Fark is like...weird and stuff.

Iraq/Afgani war: Fark (and almost every other "social media" website) calls the US "military industrial complex" murderers and torturers and wish only for peace, flowers, unicorns, "no blood for oil", and start singing John Lennon songs in between bong hits.

Yet here we have pilots being shot down/killed, other pilots being captured (and likely tortured), rampant chaos and looting and raping and pillaging and other such Viking-esque behavior... and everyone turns into blood-thirsty lunatics and cheer.

/and "blood for oil" is actually more appropriate HERE than it was in Iraq.
//but I guess I dont really care....I'm more looking forward to the next Call of Duty: Libya with more flight missions over Libya - or getting to play the guy with the ghetto-gun trying to shoot down a plane.

Please continue my favorite little hiveminders.

Well, there's a significant difference. We aren't fighting Libya's revolution for them yet.

bmfderek: Voiceofreason01: zenobia: I've been buried in work for the past 5 days. I heard an NPR broadcast of some rebels stealing a tank -- almost made me cry -- and not much more. Is anybody going to help these guys?

The rebels seem to be winning, though it would be nice if somebody would help to ensure that Gaddafi can't leave the country and ends up in the hands of the rebels.

Yeah, I'm really hoping for a Romania-type ending to this. That was an awesome Christmas.

This is all very exciting. I can't even don't even want to think of a good snark.

RocketRay: Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

For the pilot's sake I hope he died in the crash. I don't want to imagine how he'd died had he survived the initial crash and got dragged out of the wreckage afterwards by the mob.

It's amazing how many armed people they can transport in one Isuzu truck. At least a half-dozen to a dozen per vehicle.

Not to be confused with the Toyota War where Chadians rolled 10 deep on Toyotas to attack the Libyans in the 1980s.

See, carpooling does work.

Not to mention a Gaddafi tank driver in the west taken out by a hunting knife. I'm waiting for the guys with BBQ skewers to inflict some casualties to throw the Libyan McGyver trifecta into play.

Cman1982: I hope all these countries get hard line islamists in power and they all ally with iran and finally push israel in the sea.

All this civil unrest in this region gives me the same idea. The whole idea of 'separation of church and state' has never caught on in any of these countries, and it seems they are just as likely to end up under sharia law (and vote for it democratically; at first...) then anything we'd consider free and democratic.

/but what the hell do I know

CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

LOL this^^^

Cman1982: I hope all these countries get hard line islamists in power and they all ally with iran and finally push israel in the sea.

Well that's a piss poor attitude. lol

RocketRay: Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

Man, there are way too many "Allah hu ackbarrrrs" in that video to make me feel comfortable about this rebellion.

/And my comfort is all that matters.

fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Arabs lllllloooooovvvvveeeee shooting in the air.

Kar98: vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

Looked like a 14.5mm to me.

fark YEAH!!! congratulations bro's thats awesome!

Ontos: Looked like a 14.5mm to me.

Agreed.

Rusty Shackleford: "Great kid. Don't get cocky!"

Done in three.

0Icky0: Man, there are way too many "Allah hu ackbarrrrs" in that video to make me feel comfortable about this rebellion.

If you don't like that, i'll pass on some Libyan protest chants before Wikipedia deletes them (new window).

"يا قذافي يا حمار، الشعب الليبي مش صغار / ya gadaffi ya hamar. asha3b alibee mish saghar / gaddafi you ass. the libyan people ain't kids."
"سيف يا رأس الدلع. شكلك مقرف فل إذاعة / saif ya ras aldila3a shaklak mugrif fil iltha3a / saif you watermelon head. you look disgusting on the news."
"يا قذافي، يا راس الضبانا، خشمك راهو في خنان / ya gadaffi ya raas dhibana. khashmik rahu fi khanana / oh gadaffi you fly-head. your nose has snot"
"معمر يامكلوب .. الشجاعة مش حبوب / ma3mr ya makloob. ashaja3 mish 7aboob. / moamr you retard. the uprising is not from pills."

The anti-Gaddafi thing is a bit tamer in English. I think the closest to the Arabic stuff is "Gaddafi! His fro! They both have to go!"

RocketRay: Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

In-farking-credible. Didn't understand a word of what was going on but the footage is amazing.

Great kid, Now don't get cocky

winning

Help the rebels?
Fark that.
They are attempting to overthrow their government.
Who says they are in the right?

Every time I see video from the Middle East, my first thought is: For a civilization that is thousands of years old, they aren't sure aren't very civilized.

/just sayin'

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Story is a fake - turns out the jet was just being piloted by John McCain.

So the jet was shot down by Jane Fonda?

He prolly no-scoped him too.

For everybody wondering about falling bullets: Julian Hatcher (sp?) did experiments with that, concluded that a falling .30 spitzer rifle bullet falls at about 300 fps, about a minute after firing. 300fps is a hell of a lot slower than the 2700 fps or so that it had at the muzzle, terminal velocity of a falling object and such. You don't want to get hit with something going 300 fps no matter what it is, but it's a far cry from getting shot.

stirfrybry: CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

LOL this^^^

I could drive down to Detroit, stand beside a crumbled house and tell you that I knocked it down with my cock.

Mister Peejay: Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

What is the freefall speed of whatever projectile their weapons are probably firing?

If it comes down in anywhere near the same vicinity as where it landed, at apogee its velocity will have reached zero or very close to it.

Probably spin will be gone as well, so there's that additional aerodynamic drag...

Not snark. Genuinely interested. I know it's not like a gentle spring misty rain, but it's not like the bullet goes up, hangs a U-ey, then rockets back down like it'd been re-fired, either.


If you're okay with the "Mythbusters" guys' testing methodology (new window), they figured a bullet's terminal velocity to be about 100 MPH (150 ft/s). For comparison, a 7.62 mm bullet fired from an AK-47 is traveling about 2300 ft/s when it leaves the muzzle.

Aerodynamic drag is the biggest factor. Since drag force always acts in an opposite direction to the bullet's travel, it acts both to rob kinetic energy from the bullet on the way up, and also to limit its maximum velocity on the way down.

Looks more like turn something deadly into something cute. Got it backwards.

The subby linked video would allow for some skepticism, however the youtube video later in the thread removes most of the doubt that the rebels shot down the plane. Sure, the gunner had a good bit of luck, and the pilot a great deal of bad luck, but that happens at times. It is one fewer plane and crew that will be dropping bombs on the rebels tomorrow. I wish US/EU/NATO whoever would get off their butts and impose a No-Fly Zone over Libya to put a stop to the air phase of the conflict.

RobbieFal:
Not to be confused with the Toyota War where Chadians rolled 10 deep on Toyotas to attack the Libyans in the 1980s.

The war began with the Libyan occupation of northern Chad in 1983, when Libya's leader Muammar al-Gaddafi, refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the Chadian President Hissène Habré, militarily supported the attempt by the opposition Transitional Government of National Unity (GUNT) to overthrow Habré.

LLOOOOOLLOLLLLLLLLLLLL

Daedalus27: I wish US/EU/NATO whoever would get off their butts and impose a No-Fly Zone over Libya to put a stop to the air phase of the conflict.

apparently some ground recon is needed before that could occur.

In other news, we've found impolite Brits, as the opposition seized a few SAS troops trying to get in contact with the eastern leadership

NFZs are good for some things, but I don't have confidence in Gaddafi to follow rules, so ultimately his guys need to be punched in the mouth a few times to make them run away and meet their fate.

clintp: And take into account that if you're a dictator, what's more valuable: planes or pilots? Planes of course. Don't let the crew eject and they're *far* more likely to try to save the plane in a marginal situation.

That and add to the fact that ejecting over the place you just bombed is a very bad idea for obvious reasons. Then even if you do eject you are in the desert with minimal/no supplies, so it would be very easy to see why the pilots might try and fly the plane back.

bikerbob: The 2nd Amendment in action! "Tyranny from without AND within" God Bless them, their warriors and their families. That could never happen here..right?....HEY!.....RIGHT?

Right, but mostly due to the NRA supported ban on new additions to the full auto part of the NFA registry

Sheeitt...

Don't you know that guy didn't actually hit the jet? Charlie Sheen and his magic Tiger Blood^tm thought about that jet, blinked, and downed the jet.

What are you people doing here? This thread was over in the third post. It's Saturday, for christ's sake.

fat boy: Great kid, Now don't get cocky

I'll bet they call you "Lightnin' Brain" because you're so quick and clever.

if the guy would of had a 4 kill streak going he could gotten a sam turret.

SuperNinjaToad: RocketRay: Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

For the pilot's sake I hope he died in the crash. I don't want to imagine how he'd died had he survived the initial crash and got dragged out of the wreckage afterwards by the mob.

It's pretty obvious he died in the crash. And they lay a blanket over the corpse, there's no abuse of any kind. But before that you can see he's pretty messed up, consistent with hitting the ground really hard.

vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

Well crap, I guess that means Gaddafi is employing an Ork Waaagh.
This is bad news, for The God Emperor of Mankind.

/Good shot Libyans.
//This thread is far geekier than I would have expected.

Barfmaker I suppose I'll go ahead and call bullshiat.

Not @ all impossible, this Marine got a Navy Cross for figuring out how to use a dead Iraqi's RPG on a bunch of Saddam's Guards

DIAF: Sheeitt...

Don't you know that guy didn't actually hit the jet? Charlie Sheen and his magic Tiger Bloodtm thought about that jet, blinked, and downed the jet.

Which is why its even better. Charlie is helping Libyans now, just because he can do that too.

DreamWeaver

"Gadhafi" is how the man himself spelled it, in a letter.


Actually, he now spells it "Gathafi," which is about the 53,000th variation he's come up with himself, without even getting into the gazillian number of ways he's spelled Muammuadib...

Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

Not normally - a bullet comes out of the business end of a gun far, far faster than a bullet would travel dropping through the air. It can still injure people, or occasionally be lethal, but it isn't particularly likely.

Ontos: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Arabs lllllloooooovvvvveeeee shooting in the air.

Kar98: vgss: >>The BBC's John Simpson reports from Ras Lanuf, where the rebels were filmed celebrating the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>the shooting down of a fighter bomber

>>fighter bomber

What? A Sukhoi 22 _is_ a fighter/bomber. I doubt you can shoot one down with a thirty cal AA gun though.

Looked like a 14.5mm to me.

Yes, it looks like a ZPU-2, which has twin 14.5mm barrels. Regardless if you could pepper a Su-22 (Fitter) with enough .30 cal, you could take it down. The Fitter has a reputation for being a horrible strike aircraft due to its vulnerability to ground fire. Its cheap though, and when you're blowing up poor saps in the desert who have absolutely no anti-aircraft support at all, it serves its purpose well.

In this case, watching the video from TV5MONDE that RocketRay posted, this was definitely a Su-24 (Fencer). You probably would never hit it with a .30-cal and with a ZPU-2 or ZPU-4 (looks like they had both on site) even with all barrels working it'd be a challenge. The Su-24 is a decent all-weather strike aircraft with supersonic capability. The gunner guy got very lucky.

It looks like the pilot panicked when he came under fire and pulled away rather than into the fire, exposing his underbelly which probably led to his demise. Exposing more of your aircraft when under AAA fire is generally a bad idea.

Or the gunner got incredibly lucky and put one round right through the cockpit messing up the pilot's day.

Mister Peejay: Rug Doctor: fusillade762: Are we sure it just wasn't hit at random by the celebratory wasting of ammunition they all seem so fond of?

Seriously. And they are aware that those bullets will eventually come back down? Going very fast?

What is the freefall speed of whatever projectile their weapons are probably firing?

If it comes down in anywhere near the same vicinity as where it landed, at apogee its velocity will have reached zero or very close to it.

Probably spin will be gone as well, so there's that additional aerodynamic drag...

Not snark. Genuinely interested. I know it's not like a gentle spring misty rain, but it's not like the bullet goes up, hangs a U-ey, then rockets back down like it'd been re-fired, either.

The way I understnd it, is that if it goes straight up and down, or any trajectory that's nearly so, it will hurt but not really kill unless it hits an infant's soft skull or whatever. (Morbid, sorry, but that happened two miles away from where I used to live one New Years eve.)

It's more of a problem when you start getting closer to the 45 degree angle, the bullet doesn't so much reach an apex and stop, only to fall slowly to the ground, it's more like a very long trajectory ballistic shot, maintaining the speed and momentum for much greater distance, indescrimantly landing with lethal force elsewhere. I think that's what's up. ;p

Mister Peejay: Not snark. Genuinely interested. I know it's not like a gentle spring misty rain, but it's not like the bullet goes up, hangs a U-ey, then rockets back down like it'd been re-fired, either.

It's probably tumbling coming down. It will still be moving fast enough to enter your skull.

Is that what you were asking?

RobbieFal: Daedalus27: I wish US/EU/NATO whoever would get off their butts and impose a No-Fly Zone over Libya to put a stop to the air phase of the conflict.

apparently some ground recon is needed before that could occur.

In other news, we've found impolite Brits, as the opposition seized a few SAS troops trying to get in contact with the eastern leadership

NFZs are good for some things, but I don't have confidence in Gaddafi to follow rules, so ultimately his guys need to be punched in the mouth a few times to make them run away and meet their fate.

I wouldn't expect much would be needed. Libya has been on the radar so to speak of hotspots so I am sure our satelites have marked areas of interest (SAMs, Airfields, etc.). It wouldn't take much effort to announce that nothing flies without permission and all military aircraft are subject to attack. You don't want to crater the runways due to the long term harm that will cause the country. I am sure the Libyan pilots know that death would be a likely outcome to any attempt to challenge the modern air forces of France, Italy, the UK, or US with their USSR 30 year old castoffs.

The EU/NATO can use Maltese, Italian, or French airfields to support the no fly zone with tankers in addition to US carrier and airfield assets Italy and Spain. If Gadhafi wants to challenge it via hostile actions against patroling aircraft or by flying, they will suffer. Yes, this puts pilots at some risk, but given the systems and resources Libya has, it is a rather low risk. The benefits gained by doing something useful (while not interfering in the domestic unrest) would be an important symbol if the rebels ultimately succeed.

trappedspirit: How can an uprising ever happen? It's going to be bubba vs a jet fighter! And he's going to have a sling shot. And they are going to be dropping nukes. No government rebels against modern military will ever work because no people in the military will ever bawk at orders to kill their own people and convert to the other side. I know. I know how the real shiat goes down. I am fark political pro. This is fake. It's going to be bubba versus a few sidewinder missiles and it's all over. Rebels put down! This is so fake. No military weaponry will get into civilian hands. Established government wins every time.

This is how things actually break apart. Tin foil hat wearers take note. The paranoia may keep you from acting. But you are pussies.

Yup, the highly disorganized and untrained military totally broke rank right away and went over to the rebels. It's amazing that gadaffwhatever is still alive, considering how many bullets, bombs and gunships that have been falling on him.

//not wearing tinfoil
//would rather not have to find out which side the mil would fall on
//everyone loses

One night...
I believe I've told ya this before
But one night
One night I was layin' down, down
I hear my mom an' papa talkin'
I hear them say Lord
Ohhooh, ohhooh hohhooh hohhooh
Ohhohhohhoohh,...
So many roads-ah
Oh I hear them say Lord, I hear them say
Oh, that little boy has reached the age uh twenty four
An' I don't believe he's a baby anymore
Anymore, anymore, anymore, anymore ohhoohhohhooh

We gotta let that boy, gotta let that boy
We gotta let that boy, gotta let that boy
We gotta let that boy, gotta let that boy
We gotta let that boy, gotta let that boy

He's gotta start shootin
He's gotta shoot it
A-shoot it sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh... shoot it
So he did
An' he kept on shootin'
An' on an' on shootin'
Ahh have mercy

Well mama she told me, papa did too
Way that ya move, it's no good for you, ya gotta
A-shoot it mama
A-shoot it mama
shoot it mama
shoot it all night long

Baby told me late last night
Way that ya shoot it's just a little too tight, ya gotta
Bomb it baby
Bomb it baby
Bomb it baby
Bomb it one time for Elvis, alright

Rock it! Rock it

Eat it

some of the problems with the Saadi brigade around Ras Lanuf/Sirt make more sense after reading the Daily Mail. I'm suspecting Saadi Gaddafi is not exactly George S. Patton.

It wouldn't stun me if the number of planes or pilots doing raids is fairly small. They already had 2 pilots defect. This plane down. Who knows what else. There's a difference between the planes that bring in mercs and planes that can inflict damage, obviously.

So, is this war a last hurrah for Soviet-era weaponry? or is there some other countries who bought their gear from the USSR who might wind up in a war soon?

equusdc: DreamWeaver

"Gadhafi" is how the man himself spelled it, in a letter.

Actually, he now spells it "Gathafi," which is about the 53,000th variation he's come up with himself, without even getting into the gazillian number of ways he's spelled Muammuadib...

Here's the Arabic according to Wikipedia: القذافي Remember read right to left!

It should be spelled "Qadhafi". The first two letters are "AL" which means "the", so we'll ignore that. The first letter in Arabic (the circle with two dots over it) is generally transliterated as "Q"; the actual sound is like a hard "K". The next letter is transliterated as "DH", like the "th" in "those". What about the "a" sound? In Arabic vowel sounds are often not actually spelled out.

The next letter (the vertical line) is "A", the circle with one dot over it is "F", and the line that dips down with two dots under it is "I" ("eee" sound).

So yeah, the spelling should be "Qadhafi", pronounced "Kathafee".

Hopefully soon he'll be dead and we won't have to worry about this crap anymore.

/wife's Moroccan, I've tried to learn some of this
//fscking damn hard language

socratesthekidd: trappedspirit: How can an uprising ever happen? It's going to be bubba vs a jet fighter! And he's going to have a sling shot. And they are going to be dropping nukes. No government rebels against modern military will ever work because no people in the military will ever bawk at orders to kill their own people and convert to the other side. I know. I know how the real shiat goes down. I am fark political pro. This is fake. It's going to be bubba versus a few sidewinder missiles and it's all over. Rebels put down! This is so fake. No military weaponry will get into civilian hands. Established government wins every time.

This is how things actually break apart. Tin foil hat wearers take note. The paranoia may keep you from acting. But you are pussies.

Yup, the highly disorganized and untrained military totally broke rank right away and went over to the rebels. It's amazing that gadaffwhatever is still alive, considering how many bullets, bombs and gunships that have been falling on him.

//not wearing tinfoil
//would rather not have to find out which side the mil would fall on
//everyone loses

Actually the army in Libya were the redheaded step children of the governments security plans. They weren't seen as reliable so they weren't given a lot of training/equipment because of the very risk they wouldn't back Gadhafi. Instead Gadhafi invested the resources in the security services and elite units that are now terrorizing Tripoli and elsewhere. That is why the rebels and military that defected look rather ragtag since what they are looting and confiscating is for the most part, lesser materials and equipment.

Gadhafi for good or ill understood the reliability of the military and that is what is creating problems. Since he didn't count on the militaries loyalty, there loss wasn't as devestating to him as it was in Egypt's or Tunisia's revolts. The key is going to be when his elite forces recongnize the writing on the wall and decide to flip to save their own skin. Hell they may just put Gadhafi against the wall themselves and escape before the rebels get close to create confusion that they can use to make a run for the border.

RocketRay: fscking damn hard language

I'm not the only one to think that the Arabic typefaces need to be larger to be read correctly, right? (And the whole replacing some letters with numbers while transliterating the language thing is something else)

And the Arabic for Libya looks like 3 men in a rowboat

ليبيا

RobbieFal: So, is this war a last hurrah for Soviet-era weaponry

Not by a long shot. Turkey for instance has shiat tons still. Link (new window)

equusdc: DreamWeaver

"Gadhafi" is how the man himself spelled it, in a letter.


Actually, he now spells it "Gathafi," which is about the 53,000th variation he's come up with himself, without even getting into the gazillian number of ways he's spelled Muammuadib...

His last name is MUAD'DIB?

The rebels are screwed.

DreamWeaver: Mugato: When did we start spelling Gaddaffi with a G? When I was a kid it was with a K. Then a QU. I mean it doesn't matter. Since they don't have the same alphabet as us, it's all arbitrarily made up anyway. I just think there should be a consensus.

"Gadhafi" is how the man himself spelled it, in a letter.

Bullshiat, we all know they can't write over there.

FlyingJ: Barfmaker I suppose I'll go ahead and call bullshiat.

Not @ all impossible, this Marine got a Navy Cross for figuring out how to use a dead Iraqi's RPG on a bunch of Saddam's Guards

Ooh rah

Just think, they're doing all this without the help of Rambo or Chuck Norris.

Good for him.

Kar98: RobbieFal: So, is this war a last hurrah for Soviet-era weaponry

Not by a long shot. Turkey for instance has shiat tons still. Link (new window)

Huh?

Turkey's been a NATO country for decades. They operate almost exclusively locally built or western equipment. Your own link lists almost no Soviet systems.

Lots of folks still use old Soviet stuff, but Turkey ain't one of them.

ThisNameSux: stirfrybry: CliChe Guevara: ThisNameSux: Any proof other than a downed jet?

You know, after claiming to have downed a jet, 'only' having a downed jet to show for it seems like pretty good evidence, actually.

LOL this^^^

I could drive down to Detroit, stand beside a crumbled house and tell you that I knocked it down with my cock.

Please do so. I'll link video of such cockwreckage on my FB page.

tiiger: RocketRay: Youtube video (new window) of the jet, anti-aircraft fire, big explosion in the desert, smoking wreckage, and dead pilot (graphic). From TV5Monde.

That seems pretty cut and dried actually. Nice find.

Twitter. #Libya

Usually my opinion of Twitter is "OK poop is coming out". But for things like revolutions it's pretty awesome.

RocketRay: But for things like revolutions it's pretty awesome.

Twitter is great for people watching, and for stuff where people are accessing the net from mobile phones.

Yay technology!

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: What flag are they flying? I thought Libya's flag was just plain green

It's the pre-Khadaffi Flag of the old monarchy.

MeroteTroncoll: Norad: Mugato: I just think there should be a consensus.

There wasn't a consensus back in the mid 1980's, when Libya was front and center in the news either. There were similar "How do we spell this guy's name?" sidebar stories back then, too.

Some things never change.

War. War never changes.

Or does it? No. It is war.
Unless it is different?

markb289: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: What flag are they flying? I thought Libya's flag was just plain green

It's the pre-Khadaffi Flag of the old monarchy.

They're kinda using two different flags. The old flag is on the left. The flag that some of them are using is on the right.



And the new version is better.

ptelg: MeroteTroncoll: Norad: Mugato: I just think there should be a consensus.

There wasn't a consensus back in the mid 1980's, when Libya was front and center in the news either. There were similar "How do we spell this guy's name?" sidebar stories back then, too.

Some things never change.

War. War never changes.

Or does it? No. It is war.
Unless it is different?

Fallout reference. Sorry.
/post-apocalypse junkie

"Great, kid, but don't get cocky!"

"I am an F-18 and I will destroy you in the air!"

"Tiger Blood! Adonis DNA!"

Great cock but don't get a kid.

trappedspirit: socratesthekidd: Yup, the highly disorganized and untrained military totally broke rank right away and went over to the rebels. It's amazing that gadaffwhatever is still alive, considering how many bullets, bombs and gunships that have been falling on him.

//not wearing tinfoil
//would rather not have to find out which side the mil would fall on
//everyone loses

Well, I'm not sure what you are saying. If you are calling Libya's military highly disorganized and untrained, I don't know where you got this information. Also, nothing "totally broke rank". There are still many military units loyal to Gaddafi. The point I was making was in reference to people talking about how unlikely any uprising in America would ever be because it would be our military vs civilians. But the reality is that our military is made up of civilians that would be hesitant to follow through with orders to bomb civilian areas where their or their buddy's families may live and there would be some overturning of military supply depots and it wouldn't be as slick as some people imagined.

So I am not certain at all what you are trying to say but for farks sake misspelling a dictator's name is only an insult to all of us. Unless it's really witty.

My general point is as follows.

1) yes, the Libyan military is, in fact, disorganized and poorly trained because Gaddafi/Gadhafi/Qadhafi/Gathafi/any other way you feel like spelling it doesn't trust the military and kept it relatively weak to prevent a military coup.
1a)a significant portion of this poorly trained military stayed loyal to him, even as it has become more and more insane to do so.

2)I too was referencing your point of the us military and how they would side in an armed revolution within the united states.
2a) The US military is really hard to compare to the Libyan military because they're just different animals.
2b)I suspect that different levels of the military, with different levels of training and indoctrination would have significantly different reactions. I would posit that the more highly trained (special forces, green berets, marines) would have a higher government loyalty due to the psychological bits to the training.
2c) We really don't know how it would end up playing out, and hopefully we never will have to because either way it's going to be a terrible, violent, and ugly thing.

3)you're a tool for claiming that people who think an armed revolution is a terrible idea are "pussies"

p.s. I misspelled his name because there isn't a right way to spell it, and I don't really give a shiat about him or his name. He'll likely be buried in an unmarked grave.

RobbieFal: markb289: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: What flag are they flying? I thought Libya's flag was just plain green

It's the pre-Khadaffi Flag of the old monarchy.

They're kinda using two different flags. The old flag is on the left. The flag that some of them are using is on the right.



And the new version is better.

According to a story on NPR the old flag hasn't been produced since Gadaffi took over so the new ones are hand made and vary in style. In any event, it is much better than the gadaffi flag.

socratesthekidd: trappedspirit: socratesthekidd:

p.s. I misspelled his name because there isn't a right way to spell it, and I don't really give a shiat about him or his name. He'll likely be buried in an unmarked grave.

Better yet, dragged through the streets until he can be disposed of in a small ziplock bag.

markb289: socratesthekidd: trappedspirit: socratesthekidd:

p.s. I misspelled his name because there isn't a right way to spell it, and I don't really give a shiat about him or his name. He'll likely be buried in an unmarked grave.

Better yet, dragged through the streets until he can be disposed of in a small ziplock bag.

Also acceptable, as long as figuring out a correct way to spell his name remains pointless

Mugato: When did we start spelling Gaddaffi with a G? When I was a kid it was with a K. Then a QU. I mean it doesn't matter. Since they don't have the same alphabet as us, it's all arbitrarily made up anyway. I just think there should be a consensus.

There never has been. I think there's something like 37 accepted ways to spell it. And who cares anyway, since he wasn't in the jet that was shot down, just some poor pilot and his backseat who might have switched sides if they'd had a chance.

One thing we CAN all agree on is there should be no rejoicing until Col. Qaddafi is strung up over Benghazi harbor.

BravadoGT: zenobia: I've been buried in work for the past 5 days. I heard an NPR broadcast of some rebels stealing a tank -- almost made me cry -- and not much more. Is anybody going to help these guys?

Dude--It's the weekend.

I know, dude. I'm surprised Fartbongo isn't out there with a sniper rifle aimed right at Khadaffi's head. That's his job, right? We voted for change and all we got was golf.

if you want a new way to spell Gaddafi, go with this woman's block list



Gadafi is a good spelling if you're really lazy or on a cell phone SMS system.

/has to wonder about the religio-political leanings of the 'gunner'.
Someone we'll be calling a 'errorist a year or two later?

RocketRay: equusdc: DreamWeaver

"Gadhafi" is how the man himself spelled it, in a letter.

Actually, he now spells it "Gathafi," which is about the 53,000th variation he's come up with himself, without even getting into the gazillian number of ways he's spelled Muammuadib...

Here's the Arabic according to Wikipedia: القذافي Remember read right to left!

It should be spelled "Qadhafi". The first two letters are "AL" which means "the", so we'll ignore that. The first letter in Arabic (the circle with two dots over it) is generally transliterated as "Q"; the actual sound is like a hard "K". The next letter is transliterated as "DH", like the "th" in "those". What about the "a" sound? In Arabic vowel sounds are often not actually spelled out.

The next letter (the vertical line) is "A", the circle with one dot over it is "F", and the line that dips down with two dots under it is "I" ("eee" sound).

So yeah, the spelling should be "Qadhafi", pronounced "Kathafee".


The /q/ is a uvular sound; it's lower in your throat than the /ch/ in Bach (a velar sound). Try making a /k/ sound down in the area where you clear your throat.

Note, however, that the above pronunciation is as the sounds are pronounced in Modern Standard Arabic; they may be different in Maghrebi (North African) Arabic, such as your wife probably speaks. My Arabic prof was Tunisian, and spoke this dialect as well, but we were taught MSA.

weegee101:

Yes, it looks like a ZPU-2, which has twin 14.5mm barrels. Regardless if you could pepper a Su-22 (Fitter) with enough .30 cal, you could take it down. The Fitter has a reputation for being a horrible strike aircraft due to its vulnerability to ground fire. Its cheap though, and when you're blowing up poor saps in the desert who have absolutely no anti-aircraft support at all, it serves its purpose well.

In this case, watching the video from TV5MONDE that RocketRay posted, this was definitely a Su-24 (Fencer). You probably would never hit it with a .30-cal and with a ZPU-2 or ZPU-4 (looks like they had both on site) even with all barrels working it'd be a challenge. The Su-24 is a decent all-weather strike aircraft with supersonic capability. The gunner guy got very lucky.



Kinda covered that on the first page, but it's a ZPU-4 mount with just 2 KPVs mounted, apparently only one functional. regarless, the gunner got a lucky shot, though with enough 14.5mm rounds flying through the air, any aircraft at that SU-24s altitude would be pretty much toast.

special20: JustGetItRight: Kar98: RobbieFal: So, is this war a last hurrah for Soviet-era weaponry

Not by a long shot. Turkey for instance has shiat tons still. Link (new window)

Huh?

Turkey's been a NATO country for decades. They operate almost exclusively locally built or western equipment. Your own link lists almost no Soviet systems.

Lots of folks still use old Soviet stuff, but Turkey ain't one of them.

Thank you for replying to derpness there... I was far too stunned reading through the wiki-weaponry of Turkey, and switching back to the OP, blinking, mouth going dry from being agape...

How is it derpness? Germany sold off a shiat ton of stuff that they inherited from the East German military. Excuse the fark out of me for naming a random country in the general area.

pic of downed SU-24's tail. Link (new window)

According to source "1124 Bomber Squadron from airbase Ghurdabiya-Sirte"

Highly doubtful. I'd bet on the pilots not wanting to bomb civvies punching out over rebel territory.

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: What flag are they flying? I thought Libya's flag was just plain green

I think that's supposed to be the pre-Gadaffi(sp?)-era f;ag of Libya

Mugato: When did we start spelling Gaddaffi with a G? When I was a kid it was with a K. Then a QU. I mean it doesn't matter. Since they don't have the same alphabet as us, it's all arbitrarily made up anyway. I just think there should be a consensus.

The problem is that there is no transliteration between Arabic and English like there is for Chinese (pinyin). That's why there are so many different spellings of Arabic names.

MeroteTroncoll: ptelg: MeroteTroncoll: Norad: Mugato: I just think there should be a consensus.

There wasn't a consensus back in the mid 1980's, when Libya was front and center in the news either. There were similar "How do we spell this guy's name?" sidebar stories back then, too.

Some things never change.

War. War never changes.

Or does it? No. It is war.
Unless it is different?

Fallout reference. Sorry.
/post-apocalypse junkie

No need to apologize for being awesome.

That man was doing it wrong right!

Damn, looking at that Youtube news video from upthread, it took me a moment to figure out what I was looking at when they showed the pilot's body, on the right side of the corpse... his legs were wrapped around themselves like two twisted wet towels. The impact must have just shattered his bones to fragments, and turned him into a human ragdoll. Farking disgusting TBH.

/I've seen worse though, and it's still always disgusting

mirazh1976: The real question each and everyone of you needs to ask is WHY has all this fighting erupted after YEARS of peace in the region.

Hint: It has to do with Debasing ones government for their Money and Resources.

LMAO. Hahaha oh man, that's rich.
I love conspiracy theorists, so entertainingly ridiculous.

"Hey you rubes, forget all this independently corroborated evidence from multiple sources and videos, I've got a bunch of implausible ideas supported by nothing but circumstantial appeals to things that everyone "knows" are true, like 'oil companies and governments are greedy'. That indisputable logic!"

RobbieFal: if you want a new way to spell Gaddafi, go with this woman's block list

Damn, that's a pretty fine-lookin' woman.
Perhaps I should consider visiting this Libya place once they toss this a-hole out.

trappedspirit: Daedalus27: Actually the army in Libya were the redheaded step children of the governments security plans. They weren't seen as reliable so they weren't given a lot of training/equipment because of the very risk they wouldn't back Gadhafi. Instead Gadhafi invested the resources in the security services and elite units that are now terrorizing Tripoli and elsewhere. That is why the rebels and military that defected look rather ragtag since what they are looting and confiscating is for the most part, lesser materials and equipment.

Please tell me the title of the book you are writing, you Libya military pro. I suppose our guys, who our forward assisting the ground Libya resistance forces, and are still not driving back the redheaded stepchildren in droves, are apart of these untrained ill equipped troupes. The bombing runs are being flown by the redheaded step children? I don't think you are seeing the same country as I am.

From my understanding (which is as a spectator reading a few sources, following media reports, and a basic interest in military), it is not the "army" that is doing the heavy fighting, shooting of civilians, and bombing via aircraft. Sources like those provided by 21-7-b suggest it is not the army as we would understand it doing the fighting. It is more the paramilitary alternative security forces using military equipment and tactics that is personally loyal to Gaddaffi.

I am not suggesting the "government" units fighting on behalf of Gaddaffi are incompetent, ill equiped, or undisciplined. Merely that they aren't really the army as we understand it. The classically infantry/mechanised relying on drafting or volunteers designed to fight other infantry/mechanised forces for the nation are not the funding priority for equipment and training and it is those who have surrendered/joined the rebellion. It is these type of formations that stood aside in Tunisa, Egypt, and in Libya.

The forces fighting for Gaddaffi are much like the forces seen in the protest last year in Iran (and presently) in the Revolutionary Guards and Basij. These parallel alternative security forces and special units seperate from a national army are recruited and trained differently to serve the leaders explicitly and not the nation. Therefore their concerns about civilian casualties or harm on the country are reduced especially in Gaddaffi case with addition of mercenary units from outside the country.

So my comments on the national army are just about the national army. It is not to minimize the task faced by the rebels in confronting the other security forces and elite that Gaddaffi has lavished his money and attention on. I am sorry I wasn't clearer in my initial comment above you cited.

mirazh1976: Of coarse it is bullshiat.
Most of it is all BS.

Just like most of the supposed conflicts that have been claimed in Lybia. Does it mean that no one hates Gadaffi, of coarse there are going to be dissenters. Just like there are dissenters here in the US who oppose our own figureheads.

All this drama in the oil nations are being promoted by us western nations to cause the oil prices to skyrocket. The goal for which is to continue to elude that we have enemies abroad while debasing our dollar. Which will force the international markets to abandon the US dollar and cause us to go further toward inflation.

International provocateurs are adding fuel to the fire everyday.
While governments play the role of helpless onlookers waiting for the drama to begin to irritate people so much that the UN will finally rear its head and with simple words as allow international interference in Lybia.

New medias rolls their heads and the audience (who are unaware of political and resource?financial gains) roll their heads as well.
The pressure build and builds, while little if anything other than people on the outskirts of their country shout and riot. For what?

More than half the population of Lybia is in is capitol Tripoli and there is nothing, zero unrest. Show the proof. Besides hating on its time faded leader. Show the proof.

These are all staged events to play on peoples minds to get each and everyone of you to believe that communities and local governments are useless to the word of the UN.

Remember, the farther away you are from interacting with your government body, the more corrupt the behavior by said government.

Day after day I see these reports with ZERO evidence except pictures of dissenters and words, hearsay. Do I support Gadaffi, no I don't.

The real question each and everyone of you needs to ask is WHY has all this fighting erupted after YEARS of peace in the region.

Hint: It has to do with Debasing ones government for their Money and Resources.
Hint 2: US & UK are FFS.

Step one: Pay people off to riot for WHATEVER.
Step two: Lie to the international world about it.
Step three: Play innocence.
Step four: Wait for a new war of new government to take hold in region of conflict.
Step five: Profit.

Same old Shiat.
Yawn!

So you guys want another war, huh?

This post brought to you by friends of Moammar (TM).

Dinodork:
Kinda covered that on the first page, but it's a ZPU-4 mount with just 2 KPVs mounted, apparently only one functional. regarless, the gunner got a lucky shot, though with enough 14.5mm rounds flying through the air, any aircraft at that SU-24s altitude would be pretty much toast.

Yeah, that pilot was flying way too low. Somehow I doubt the rebels have SAM sites so I really can't figure out why the heck that pilot was as low as he was. There's no radar to dodge... fly high and fast so you can go home at night.

Good for him, what do you want a freakin' medal?

Oh, wait.


/Hot like Alderaan

"Great kid, don't get penisy!"

Shenanigans!

Line forms to the left for the dispensing of the brooms.

antidumbass: /has to wonder about the religio-political leanings of the 'gunner'.
Someone we'll be calling a 'errorist a year or two later?

yet another enemy in our war on errors...
will he spell out istructions wrong somehow?

Iron Felix: In 1999, Serbian defences managed to shoot down an F-117 "Stealth" fighter/bomber. "Lucky shots" aren't out of the question.

It wasn't that lucky, a lot of preparations on the Serbian side and stupidity on the NATO side went into that one...
short version: the pilot took the same route too often and the Serbs prepped a pretty decent kill-box..

BrotherKalashnikov: Iron Felix: In 1999, Serbian defences managed to shoot down an F-117 "Stealth" fighter/bomber. "Lucky shots" aren't out of the question.

It wasn't that lucky, a lot of preparations on the Serbian side and stupidity on the NATO side went into that one...
short version: the pilot took the same route too often and the Serbs prepped a pretty decent kill-box..

Exactly, had enough radars pointed at the general area to turn up that small signature into something they could shoot at. It wasn't a high probability shot, but I certainly wouldn't call it luck. They used their resources and adopted tactics to shock the US and western military forces using the lower tech equipment that they had available.