FARK.com: (5998447) The once thought to be dead idea of a national ID card is now alive and kicking down your door this May 11th

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(The (Fading) American Dream)		The once thought to be dead idea of a national ID card is now alive and kicking down your door this May 11th (endoftheamericandream.com)		193
		More: Interesting, Real ID Act, personal identification, United States Nationality law, Coming into force, U S Capitol, u.s. congressman, Department of Homeland Security, fundamental rights

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PanicMan		2011-03-01 01:34:32 PM

brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

LittleBlondeJug		2011-03-01 01:35:25 PM

Casey_S777: Philip Francis Queeg: Casey_S777: I'm the most paranoid person I know and I like the idea of a national ID card.

All you people who are scared of this probably all have Facebook accounts, where they sell every digital byte you put out there to whoever wants it, whereas the government will issue you an ID card so you can... go in a federal building? prove you did not break in to the country? are not a terrorist?

All ths talk of "show me your papers" fear mongering is just retarded.

How would a National ID prove you aren't a terrorist?

It's really complicated. There's like algorithms and shiat involved...I think.

farking math.

I knew it.

LittleBlondeJug		2011-03-01 01:36:26 PM

PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

pregerstheHobo		2011-03-01 01:36:40 PM

Cajnik: itazurakko: (2) IF the US really does want to be serious about cracking down on foreigners illegally working or living in the US, then they will have to have some form of ID proving citizenship that they will require all job prospects to show. For this of course, a passport is the obvious solution, I don't see any need for a NEW ID card.

Particularly in regards to (2), it would mean that everyone applying for jobs shows either a US passport, a US green card, or a foreign passport with a legal and current visa in it. That would be a legitimate information need, just as they ask for your SSN now (because they actually need it to process your employment).

You're going to require everyone to get a passport, when like 30% of Americans actually use it?

A passport is for international travel, a driving license is for driving. I don't understand the big deal with carrying one extra card in your wallet. Throw out your subway club card and you've got room.

/Also, since we're talking about passports, did you know they charge you $82 to add pages to your passport? Thanks, Obama!

And they literally tape that shiat in there. Frickin TAPE. No joke. Soda shot out of my mouth when I got it back and opened it. up.

Transkaren		2011-03-01 01:38:23 PM

Cajnik

/Also, since we're talking about passports, did you know they charge you $82 to add pages to your passport? Thanks, Obama!

Try changing your name. $100 or so just for the legal proceedings & documentation, $50 for a new birth certificate, $70 per owned vehicle including manufactured homes, early payment of property taxes, deed transfer fee (for those with actual homes), $80 for a new ID. And that doesn't even include the other fun things, like possibly losing credit history, having credit cards declined (because you haven't gotten the new one yet), etc.

And I don't even have a passport; I don't plan on getting one until I can get one with an F.

jake3988		2011-03-01 01:38:44 PM

This was passed in like... 2005 or so. Was supposed to be implemented in '08, then '09, then '10, now '11. Every year the states biatch, and they get a year extension.

Now that most states are back to republican control and off to destroying unions or biatching about the health care bill, this nightmare of a law will finally be implemented.

Ugh.

Cajnik		2011-03-01 01:42:55 PM

pregerstheHobo: And they literally tape that shiat in there. Frickin TAPE. No joke. Soda shot out of my mouth when I got it back and opened it. up.

Lol, yep. The embassy here has "American Services" hours from like 9-11am and they made me come back the next day to pick up my taped pages. Everytime I go in there, there's like one family with a baby and a crying 19 year old girl who lost her passport. I don't understand why they're so 'busy'

Latinwolf		2011-03-01 01:45:25 PM

Bigdogdaddy: GAT_00: How is it a bad thing?

The only problem is if I am stopped on the street by the cops randomly and asked to see it.

Like black and Latino citizens had to put up with when Rudy Guilani was mayor.

skullkrusher		2011-03-01 01:46:44 PM

Latinwolf: Bigdogdaddy: GAT_00: How is it a bad thing?

The only problem is if I am stopped on the street by the cops randomly and asked to see it.

Like black and Latino citizens had to put up with when Rudy Guilani was mayor.

stop committing so many crimes, wolfie ;)

PanicMan		2011-03-01 01:47:24 PM

LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=542&invol=177

The Wiki is a little easier to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

Not quite an exact match to your question. But I'm not a law-talking-guy.

PanicMan		2011-03-01 01:48:51 PM

Forgot the money quote:

"The Nevada Supreme Court had held that the Nevada statute required only that the suspect divulge his name; presumably, he could do so without handing over any documents whatsoever. As long as the suspect tells the officer his name, he has satisfied the dictates of the Nevada stop-and-identify law."

altxatu		2011-03-01 01:49:00 PM

GAT_00: Bigdogdaddy: The only problem is if I am stopped on the street by the cops randomly and asked to see it.

Ah yes, the government is coming to get you. Well, they can already ask you for ID, because as I said, everyone has a picture ID already. I see nothing that forces you to provide it, much as you might like to imply that you automatically can be forced to do that. And, well, if you have a problem with providing it, talk to the Republicans. They were totally cool with it in Arizona to catch the scary brown people.

In SC if a police officer asks to see your ID they can arrest you if you don't provide it. However it isn't enforced in that manner. If they arrest you for that, they're going/trying to get you an another charge and don't want you running off.

I imagine that a National ID would act pretty much the same. As was pointed out, we already need ID to work legally, to drive, to do an awful lot. A National ID wouldn't be a bad idea, however I'd like to see the bill before I get excited.

LittleBlondeJug		2011-03-01 01:49:47 PM

PanicMan: LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=542&invol=177

The Wiki is a little easier to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

Not quite an exact match to your question. But I'm not a law-talking-guy.

So, does that apply to Indiana

BuckTurgidson		2011-03-01 01:50:30 PM

Nuclear Monk: Mind you, but not 4 years ago, this would have been a patriotic website asking the dirty liberals why they are so afraid of having a national ID card and why they hate america.

... and still hawking bullion and survival gear as defense against not the government, but muzzie terrorists.

pregerstheHobo		2011-03-01 01:53:00 PM

Cajnik: pregerstheHobo: And they literally tape that shiat in there. Frickin TAPE. No joke. Soda shot out of my mouth when I got it back and opened it. up.

Lol, yep. The embassy here has "American Services" hours from like 9-11am and they made me come back the next day to pick up my taped pages. Everytime I go in there, there's like one family with a baby and a crying 19 year old girl who lost her passport. I don't understand why they're so 'busy'

I've never understood how someone loses a passport. At home, yeah I can get that, it's probably shoved in a book somewhwere. But while travelling? Guard that with your life.

/unless it's Ireland, many a friend has lost a passport there while plastered.

noblehammer16		2011-03-01 01:56:40 PM

Compulsory ID number tattoos.

/if they don't like it, round them up and put them in camps!

brigid_fitch		2011-03-01 01:57:07 PM

LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

Yes, you do have to give your name but that's it. The statute is Papachristou v. Jacksonville, where the Supreme Court shot down all anti-vagrancy laws.

So, LBJ, you don't have to worry that you're from IN, since it's a Federal law. You just have to worry if they bother to run your name against any outstanding warrants.

Or you could just pay the freakin' ticket already. :)

PanicMan		2011-03-01 01:59:05 PM

LittleBlondeJug: So, does that apply to Indiana

The wiki for "stop and identify" will lead you to the Indiana code.

That's all I know.

mhd		2011-03-01 02:02:08 PM

Today I learned: Austrian women are younger, hotter and better educated than German woman.

/and single. How you doin', Ms. Samplewoman?

Latinwolf		2011-03-01 02:05:43 PM

weiserfireman: skullkrusher: weiserfireman: Latinwolf: We already have a national ID card, it's your social security card.

Passport is another National ID system. They even have a card version of it now

and the new ones have chips in them

Yep my new one has an rfid chip

I think my last one was issued in 2004 so probably not.

Cajnik		2011-03-01 02:13:00 PM

Vzor Specimen? That doesn't even sound Czech. I think it should be Specimenova

brigid_fitch		2011-03-01 02:13:02 PM

altxatu: GAT_00: Bigdogdaddy: The only problem is if I am stopped on the street by the cops randomly and asked to see it.

Ah yes, the government is coming to get you. Well, they can already ask you for ID, because as I said, everyone has a picture ID already. I see nothing that forces you to provide it, much as you might like to imply that you automatically can be forced to do that. And, well, if you have a problem with providing it, talk to the Republicans. They were totally cool with it in Arizona to catch the scary brown people.

In SC if a police officer asks to see your ID they can arrest you if you don't provide it. However it isn't enforced in that manner. If they arrest you for that, they're going/trying to get you an another charge and don't want you running off.

Citation, please. Papachristou v. Jacksonville set precedent that you don't have to show ID unless you're engaged in an activity that requires a license or certification. Police can't enforce or even arrest you for anything like that at all because it's not illegal to just be out walking. According to you, SC cops are arresting bikers & joggers who don't have their driver's licenses on them and I'm sure that's not happening.

I imagine that a National ID would act pretty much the same. As was pointed out, we already need ID to work legally, to drive, to do an awful lot. A National ID wouldn't be a bad idea, however I'd like to see the bill before I get excited.

You don't need ID to legally work. You need some proof of citizenship for an I-9 but not ID. A National ID is a dumb idea because what would you use if for? To travel? Well, to go internationally, you need a passport, so that's already covered. And since, by Federal law, you DON'T need ID to just walk around or even work, what's the point?

Unless the point is to have a National ID so that laws could be enacted later to legitimize their requirement. It's a little tin-hattish, but that's where most people's ire begins, including my own. I have no problem standardizing driver's licenses--that's a no-brainer which will make law enforcement's job easier. But when you move to anything requiring you to produce papers for arbitrary reasons, like AZ, then we start eroding Constitutional Amendments.

/And again, TFA is NOT about National ID's. It's about the standardization of driver's licenses portion of the REAL ID Act
//The author is just crying wolf with the whole National ID thing.

globalwarmingpraiser		2011-03-01 02:20:00 PM

oLittleBlondeJug: Great. I'm sure that mine will have a big red letter "A" across the front of it.

So you do love Anal.

/U know this is but I am the first, Fark, I am disappoint.

jcsturgeon		2011-03-01 02:36:45 PM

OUTRAGE!!!

I demand to be able to board trains, apply for work and enter federal buildings without presenting my papers to the gestapo!

...Oh wait, I already have to show them my state issued ID anyway?

Nevermind.

If a federal ID would be harder to counterfeit, and take the place of some of these useless papers then why not?

Mazzic518		2011-03-01 02:47:31 PM

LittleBlondeJug: Great. I'm sure that mine will have a big red letter "A" across the front of it.

Dont you mean AW

aug3		2011-03-01 02:52:41 PM

i'm gonna need to see your original long form id card.

Bush signed the Real ID into law,
making Obama get that fake lookin' birf certrificate.
its a conspiracy!

weiserfireman		2011-03-01 02:54:54 PM

jcsturgeon: OUTRAGE!!!

I demand to be able to board trains, apply for work and enter federal buildings without presenting my papers to the gestapo!

...Oh wait, I already have to show them my state issued ID anyway?

Nevermind.

If a federal ID would be harder to counterfeit, and take the place of some of these useless papers then why not?

Fed's aren't going to be issuing these. These are still State issued IDs.

Just some uniformity to the requirements to get one, features of the card to prevent counterfeiting, etc. On the back end, the States are making their computer systems integrate with each other so that the authorities in any State can verify the legitimacy of an ID from any other State.

In my State, for about 20 years, whenever you went to the DMV to get an ID, you would walk out the door with your new ID in hand. Because of the new security measures, the local DMVs will issue temporary IDs and the new permanent ID will be mailed in a couple weeks. It is going to feel like the old ways are back.

LittleBlondeJug		2011-03-01 03:02:38 PM

brigid_fitch: LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

Yes, you do have to give your name but that's it. The statute is Papachristou v. Jacksonville, where the Supreme Court shot down all anti-vagrancy laws.

So, LBJ, you don't have to worry that you're from IN, since it's a Federal law. You just have to worry if they bother to run your name against any outstanding warrants.

Or you could just pay the freakin' ticket already. :)

LOL I wish it was that easy.

Surool		2011-03-01 03:17:03 PM

So, the bottom line is that all state driver's licenses must comply to certain standards. No new federal cards will be issued, but states must have a minimum of info on their cards.

That's it? That's this guy's whole story? How completely farking retarded!

I also love that some people think it means federal agents and police will be asking for your identification more than they do now.

weiserfireman		2011-03-01 03:26:22 PM

Surool: So, the bottom line is that all state driver's licenses must comply to certain standards. No new federal cards will be issued, but states must have a minimum of info on their cards.

That's it? That's this guy's whole story? How completely farking retarded!

I also love that some people think it means federal agents and police will be asking for your identification more than they do now.

yep complete non-story. Only grief that the States had with it was the billions of dollars that their experts told them it was going to cost to comply with REALID. Feds set up a grant program, low and behold, that costs ended up being so low, that many States never bothered with a grant in the end. A couple that did take grant money eventually returned part of it.

BuckTurgidson		2011-03-01 04:03:45 PM

mhd: Today I learned: Austrian women are younger, hotter and better educated than German woman.

An ausweis!

You get a 10 out of 10 for this, old boy!

TheGreatGazoo		2011-03-01 04:36:09 PM

The problem with Real ID is that it makes it a complete pain in the neck to get your driver's license renewed.

You basically need to go into the office with your old license, your birth certificate or passport, Social Security Card, a utility bill that has your current address and legal name on it. All the names have to match exactly. If you are married and the bills come in your husband's name, too bad. If you recently moved, you have to bring the lease or sales documentation. Even if you have a valid US passport.

If you are a woman and are on your third marriage, you have to bring in all of your marriage licenses and divorce decrees showing the various name changes if anything doesn't line up.

If you are unofficially adopted and don't know where you were born. You can't get a driver's license. Same if the court house where your original birth certificate was stored burned down. If you are older, you might not have had a birth certificate issued for you, especially if you were born at home in a rural setting. Too bad. No drivers license (or voting) for you.

globalwarmingpraiser		2011-03-01 06:47:04 PM

LittleBlondeJug: brigid_fitch: LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

Yes, you do have to give your name but that's it. The statute is Papachristou v. Jacksonville, where the Supreme Court shot down all anti-vagrancy laws.

So, LBJ, you don't have to worry that you're from IN, since it's a Federal law. You just have to worry if they bother to run your name against any outstanding warrants.

Or you could just pay the freakin' ticket already. :)

LOL I wish it was that easy.

So what are you wanted for LBJ.

Parthenogenetic		2011-03-01 08:05:41 PM

TheGreatGazoo: The problem with Real ID is that it makes it a complete pain in the neck to get your driver's license renewed.

You basically need to go into the office with your old license, your birth certificate or passport, Social Security Card, a utility bill that has your current address and legal name on it. All the names have to match exactly. If you are married and the bills come in your husband's name, too bad. If you recently moved, you have to bring the lease or sales documentation. Even if you have a valid US passport.

If you are a woman and are on your third marriage, you have to bring in all of your marriage licenses and divorce decrees showing the various name changes if anything doesn't line up.

Oh, please. If you are a LEGAL American citizen in a normal marriage with no divorces, no living in unmarried hetero or homosexual sin, none of this will affect you one whit.

Well, maybe if you're the wife and the bills come in your husband's name. But really, that's one of the small burdens you must bear to live in a Biblically sanctioned marriage in which you submit to your husband's authority. And why does a woman need to drive somewhere without her husband anyway?

So REAL ID is for Real Americans. You sinners can suck it.

LittleBlondeJug		2011-03-01 08:52:47 PM

globalwarmingpraiser: LittleBlondeJug: brigid_fitch: LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

Yes, you do have to give your name but that's it. The statute is Papachristou v. Jacksonville, where the Supreme Court shot down all anti-vagrancy laws.

So, LBJ, you don't have to worry that you're from IN, since it's a Federal law. You just have to worry if they bother to run your name against any outstanding warrants.

Or you could just pay the freakin' ticket already. :)

LOL I wish it was that easy.

So what are you wanted for LBJ.

DUI.

dustman81		2011-03-01 09:55:45 PM

Ohio redesigned their licenses in 2009 to match the AAMVA 2005 standard. They specify where each piece of data should go, the dimensions of the photograph and even what each track on the magstripe should hold. It also specifies which color signifies a license (pink) and what signifies a ID (green).

It caused an uproar when drivers (males in particular) were getting the new "pink" licenses.

I doubt that states are going to ready to implement RealID on 5/11/11. Ohio was the first state to ask - and receive - an extension for the first deadline.

What they should do is:
Give "Enhanced" Drivers Licenses (which also meet RealID requirements) to US citizens. This way, any US citizen can drive to Mexico or Canada without the need for a passport
Give RealIDs to legal immigrants
Tell illegal immigrants to piss off and go home

KarmicDisaster		2011-03-01 10:33:34 PM

Well, carrying the card will be a lot easier than carrying my papers.

Raptor_1.4G		2011-03-02 01:31:36 AM

Ah yes the federal government gatekeepers have all gathered here to tell us how wonderful their nazi government is.

Take your ID and shove it. Along with your draft card.

indylaw		2011-03-02 07:20:10 AM

If this were to be enacted, whom does it hurt and what effect does it have? You already need a government-issued ID to open a bank account, pay with anything other than cash, drive a car, fly on a plane, or to be hired for a legitimate employer that submits I-9 proof of citizenship or visa.

How many people in 2011 live "off the grid"? Not many, and those hermits who do wouldn't need a national ID card anyway.

I'm just not seeing it. I know government is supposed to be the antichrist and always up to no good, but what difference does it make whether your ID has "Illinois" or "United States of America" printed on it?

indylaw		2011-03-02 07:24:12 AM

Raptor_1.4G: Ah yes the federal government gatekeepers have all gathered here to tell us how wonderful their nazi government is.

Take your ID and shove it. Along with your draft card.

Yes, minus the systematic extermination of Jews, homosexuals, Communists and other "undesirables"; the absence of democratic institutions; the strict control of the press and other major media; the aggressive campaign of continental conquest; and the daffy personality cult, we're JUST LIKE Nazi Germany, because they had ID cards too.

globalwarmingpraiser		2011-03-02 11:06:45 AM

LittleBlondeJug: globalwarmingpraiser: LittleBlondeJug: brigid_fitch: LittleBlondeJug: PanicMan: brigid_fitch: LOL--wow, did I come across as harsh. It's just that the issue of people not really knowing their rights bugs me. I come from a family of cops and even THEY roll their eyes at the amount of ignorance out there.

But you are required to (at a minimum) verbally identify yourself if asked, right?

I would like to know.

/Indiana
//yes, a warrant out for my arrest, so I would REALLY like to know

Yes, you do have to give your name but that's it. The statute is Papachristou v. Jacksonville, where the Supreme Court shot down all anti-vagrancy laws.

So, LBJ, you don't have to worry that you're from IN, since it's a Federal law. You just have to worry if they bother to run your name against any outstanding warrants.

Or you could just pay the freakin' ticket already. :)

LOL I wish it was that easy.

So what are you wanted for LBJ.

DUI.

So you like anal and make poor decisions.......how YOU doin?

Stoker		2011-03-02 03:29:33 PM

"He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16-17

What... Did you forget?

Ya know, computers don't have to be bad, it's just what people do with them that can be bad. It's like a gun. It doesn't have to kill people, but when people use guns to kill people, it usually does.

Surool		2011-03-02 05:15:23 PM

Stoker: "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16-17

What... Did you forget?

Ya know, computers don't have to be bad, it's just what people do with them that can be bad. It's like a gun. It doesn't have to kill people, but when people use guns to kill people, it usually does.

Wow! I am impressed. You are taking a Bush era Homeland Security mandate to have all drivers licenses in the USA carry the same information and say it signifies the end of days. Truly, a sight to behold!

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