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(The Hill)   If you were wondering why Harry Reid Reid reversed course, started being more cooperative about avoiding government shutdown, here's why   (thehill.com) divider line 71
    More: Interesting, Harry Reid Reid, reverse course, government shutdown, Harry Reid, Public Policy Polling, quality of lives, CEO Rupert Murdoch, rank-and-file  
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4042 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Feb 2011 at 3:55 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-28 12:39:56 PM
Not sure if serious... Reid has been fighting against a shutdown since January... that is, if anything that Reid does could be accurately described as "fighting"....
 
2011-02-28 01:55:16 PM
Man people annoy me at times. Republicans obstruct at all costs = people blame Democrats.

Democrats obstruct to a fraction of a degree that Republicans do = people blame Democrats.

I wonder if that would change if we had a balanced media instead of one Republican cheerleader and a bunch of networks afraid to report the truth for fear of accusations of bias.
 
2011-02-28 02:03:45 PM
Subby said Reid twice.
 
2011-02-28 02:11:35 PM

dahmers love zombie: Subby said Reid twice.

 
2011-02-28 02:28:34 PM

Andyr2120: Not sure if serious... Reid has been fighting against a shutdown since January... that is, if anything that Reid does could be accurately described as "fighting"....


If you can call purposefully trying to make a shutdown more likely in the hopes of political gain "fighting," then, yes, you're right.
 
2011-02-28 03:33:35 PM

MuadDib: Andyr2120: Not sure if serious... Reid has been fighting against a shutdown since January... that is, if anything that Reid does could be accurately described as "fighting"....

If you can call purposefully trying to make a shutdown more likely in the hopes of political gain "fighting," then, yes, you're right.


Any spending bill that passes the Senate and has a chance at being signed by the President is going to look a lot more like one crafted by Reid than anything that oozes out of the House. When will the House GOP get with the program and start working on a realistic budget? Until that starts, this is Boehner's Waterloo.
 
2011-02-28 03:57:26 PM

Andyr2120: Until that starts, this is Boehner's Waterloo.


I like to think of it as his Macho Grande.
 
2011-02-28 03:59:02 PM
Shut it down. Then my wife and all my friends can get together to play Arkham Horror and BANG!
 
2011-02-28 04:04:34 PM
And the other 48% blame nobody?

/republicans are your friends
/republicans are always right
/republicans have your best interests in mind
 
2011-02-28 04:05:17 PM

apeiron242: Shut it down. Then my wife and all my friends can get together to play Arkham Horror and BANG!


Hope you draw Hastur you bastard.
 
2011-02-28 04:06:11 PM
The reason the shutdown in 1995 was not a boon for Republicans was because it was over something idiotic, like a 2% difference in the budget. You're not getting that this time, as Obama has shown no inclination that he wants to move to a balanced budget, both through his massive spending increases and his huge tax cuts.
 
2011-02-28 04:06:32 PM
Because Harry Reid Reid is a giant pussy pussy.
 
2011-02-28 04:06:40 PM
Can't get government any smaller than "shut down completely." Small-government anarchists teabaggers should be thrilled.
 
2011-02-28 04:06:56 PM
Why are "voters" so stupid?

Who are these "voters"? They need to be put down.
 
2011-02-28 04:08:33 PM

Cinaed: Andyr2120: Until that starts, this is Boehner's Waterloo.

I like to think of it as his Macho Grande.


Over Macho Grande?
 
2011-02-28 04:08:49 PM

Shaggy_C: The reason the shutdown in 1995 was not a boon for Republicans was because it was over something idiotic, like a 2% difference in the budget. You're not getting that this time, as Obama has shown no inclination that he wants to move to a balanced budget, both through his massive spending increases and his huge tax cuts.


Yes, damn Obama and the democrats for extending the Bush tax cuts. Totally not the GOP's doing.


We're through the looking glass here people.
 
2011-02-28 04:08:54 PM

Shaggy_C: The reason the shutdown in 1995 was not a boon for Republicans was because it was over something idiotic, like a 2% difference in the budget. You're not getting that this time, as Obama has shown no inclination that he wants to move to a balanced budget, both through his massive spending increases and his huge tax cuts.


You mean his budget that cuts almost the exact same amount of money as the Republican proposed budget? That horrible budget they're standing against because it's not enough, even though it's almost identical in size to theirs?
 
2011-02-28 04:08:54 PM
So more people will blame the "Party of Big Government" for shutting down the Government, instead of blaming the "Party of Limited (or no) Government (except, of course, for the massively bloated military industrial complex)"?

Seems to me that the GOPs own rhetoric alone should lead more people to blame them for anything that shuts down the federal Government. I mean, all I hear from the GOP is how "liberals want the government to do everything for us" and how the GOP wants "very limited government", so how could I possibly believe that the Party that (allegedly) wants government to be involved in every aspect of our lives would also want to shut that government down?
 
2011-02-28 04:10:48 PM

Emposter: Yes, damn Obama and the democrats for extending the Bush tax cuts. Totally not the GOP's doing.


The Obama-McConnell Debt Increase of 2010 was a bipartisan effort. Obama deserves blame for negotiating so poorly.
 
2011-02-28 04:12:14 PM

dahmers love zombie: Subby said Reid twice.


He likes Reid.
 
2011-02-28 04:13:35 PM

dahmers love zombie: Subby said Reid twice.


Maybe he was shooting for "Reidversed" course?
 
2011-02-28 04:13:59 PM
Some of those comments on the Hill are fark troll level:

I doubt Obama will run in 2012. He may have a hard time meeting ballot requirements in several states.

Some people open their windows and instead of the sun and the moon they see Limbaugh and Beck's heads floating gloriously through the sky.
 
2011-02-28 04:14:07 PM

Blathering Idjut: apeiron242: Shut it down. Then my wife and all my friends can get together to play Arkham Horror and BANG!

Hope you draw Hastur you bastard.


We did our group's first play through last weekend. We went with Yig (we heard it was the best for a short game and for noobs). We won handily. Good times.

Hastur, eh? i'll keep and eye out.
 
2011-02-28 04:14:32 PM

Emposter: Shaggy_C: The reason the shutdown in 1995 was not a boon for Republicans was because it was over something idiotic, like a 2% difference in the budget. You're not getting that this time, as Obama has shown no inclination that he wants to move to a balanced budget, both through his massive spending increases and his huge tax cuts.

Yes, damn Obama and the democrats for extending the Bush tax cuts. Totally not the GOP's doing.


We're through the looking glass here people.


If Obama doesn't want to claim credit for the tax cuts, then maybe he should stop telling anyone who'll listen about how he's cutting taxes, and how he campaigned on tax cuts for the middle class.

I can guarantee that the worst thing we could do would be to raise taxes when the economy is still this weak. So we're going to be rolling out our budget. I'm not going to be giving you too many previews of the State of the Union, but I think it's important to understand that No. 1, I haven't raised taxes on anybody, I've cut taxes. Ninety-five percent of working Americans have gotten a tax cut, partly because it's the right thing to do because of the recession, partly because it's just something I campaigned on. So that's point number one.

He's not exactly out there saying "I'd have raised taxes and balanced the budget if the Republicans hadn't stopped me!"
 
2011-02-28 04:14:42 PM

Bacontastesgood: Some of those comments on the Hill are fark troll level:

I doubt Obama will run in 2012. He may have a hard time meeting ballot requirements in several states.

Some people open their windows and instead of the sun and the moon they see Limbaugh and Beck's heads floating gloriously through the sky.


Methamphetamine is a helluva drug.
 
2011-02-28 04:14:42 PM

LasersHurt: You mean his budget that cuts almost the exact same amount of money as the Republican proposed budget? That horrible budget they're standing against because it's not enough, even though it's almost identical in size to theirs?


Isn't the difference $61 billion this year alone? That's not exactly chump change; it's a 5% reduction in the deficit.
 
2011-02-28 04:15:02 PM

Shaggy_C: Emposter: Yes, damn Obama and the democrats for extending the Bush tax cuts. Totally not the GOP's doing.

The Obama-McConnell Debt Increase of 2010 was a bipartisan effort. Obama deserves blame for negotiating so poorly.


You mistake 'bipartisan cooperation' with 'rope-a-doping the GOP into being stupid and then showing them up for it.' He let them hang themselves with their own rope.
 
2011-02-28 04:16:29 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Can't get government any smaller than "shut down completely." Small-government anarchists should be thrilled.


It would be a good start. Though the government version of "shut down completely" is remarkably similar to "the way things usually are" except the media is shiatting a brick while it happens. They cut out all the things people use or like, but keep wasting money on worthless stuff that is arbitrarily labeled mandatory.

And this covers several groups that don't necessarily mix. Teabaggers being regular jackass republicans, libertarians which are like republicans but can't stand the bullshiat aspects of it, minarchists which are a notch more in that direction, anachro-capitalists which are all the way to private roads, police, and justice system, and then regular anarchists which tend to be lefty and probably actually don't want a government shutdown at all on account of it "harming" the poor.
 
2011-02-28 04:17:57 PM
I thought government was useless and a waste of money. Shouldn't shutting it down be the best possible thing you could do for the economy?
 
2011-02-28 04:19:04 PM

Shaggy_C: LasersHurt: You mean his budget that cuts almost the exact same amount of money as the Republican proposed budget? That horrible budget they're standing against because it's not enough, even though it's almost identical in size to theirs?

Isn't the difference $61 billion this year alone? That's not exactly chump change; it's a 5% reduction in the deficit.


No, the difference was a few hundred billion over 10 years. And Obama's actually had the slightly larger set of cuts. This was last I heard a few days ago, though, I don't have the numbers in front of me right now.
 
2011-02-28 04:20:13 PM

Infernalist: He let them hang themselves with their own rope.


How, exactly? He's just gearing to make taxes the key battle of the 2012 elections. I'm sure running on jacking up tax rates is going to be a winning proposition. Even worse, even if he does win the election, we will have piled up several hundred billion dollars in additional debt. And for what? To prove a political point? Like a Republican, you're happy to see the country suffer if it means your 'team' wins, huh? Farking party loyalist.
 
2011-02-28 04:20:34 PM
Reid and Re-Reid were on a bandwagon. Reid fell off. Who was left?
 
2011-02-28 04:20:42 PM
They blame the DEMONcrats for everything so how is this any different?

If the government were to shut down I would expect to see commercials from every left-wing PAC stating in very clear words "The Republicans are why you can't collect welfare/unemployment/medicare etc..." and run it every day the government is shut down.
 
2011-02-28 04:23:51 PM
The results are surprising...

No, they're really not. This is a populace that believes our old healthcare system was better before the healthcare reform act. Our modern society is full of stupid people.
 
2011-02-28 04:25:27 PM

LasersHurt: No, the difference was a few hundred billion over 10 years. And Obama's actually had the slightly larger set of cuts. This was last I heard a few days ago, though, I don't have the numbers in front of me right now.


The 60 billion in cuts was from the House budget just passed about two weeks ago - it cut Obama's proposed budget by 14%, which the President and Harry Reid immediately condemned.
 
2011-02-28 04:28:03 PM
If the reason Reid is changing his mind is because of a poll that suggests Democrats would receive a larger portion of the blame than Republicans, it only goes back to the fundamental truth about the Democratic party: they suck at messaging.

The House Republicans talked about nothing but job, jobs, jobs the entire campaign season and then turn around and introduce more abortion restrictions and a define rape bill. Do they get called on it by the Democrats? Barely, but you'd think they'd be shouting it from the mountain tops and make everyone see what's happening.

And what is happening? The Republicans are setting the narrative for the next big budget fight and can completely escape any criticism for not creating jobs that is leveled at them by screaming louder than the Democrats about spending cuts.

Democrats suck at messaging.
 
2011-02-28 04:29:44 PM

Shaggy_C: LasersHurt: No, the difference was a few hundred billion over 10 years. And Obama's actually had the slightly larger set of cuts. This was last I heard a few days ago, though, I don't have the numbers in front of me right now.

The 60 billion in cuts was from the House budget just passed about two weeks ago - it cut Obama's proposed budget by 14%, which the President and Harry Reid immediately condemned.


Hey, I condemn it too - Completely defunding programs you personally dislike isn't governance, it's childishness. Cut a percentage, sure, that's cutting for budget's sake - but totally killing funding for things just because you can? Bullshiat of the highest order.
 
2011-02-28 04:30:42 PM
I'd be interested to see the wording of the questions.

I mean, if it were something like:

"If hardline Democrats don't concede to the GOP's modest proposals for a fiscally sound budget and they force the government to shut down, who would you blame for the shutdown, the Democrats? Or the Republicans who are blamelessly trying to do the right thing?"


you might imagine why the results seem a little counter-intuitive.
 
2011-02-28 04:33:00 PM

LasersHurt: Hey, I condemn it too - Completely defunding programs you personally dislike isn't governance, it's childishness. Cut a percentage, sure, that's cutting for budget's sake - but totally killing funding for things just because you can? Bullshiat of the highest order.


What have they totally killed? I'll admit the 60% cut at the CFTC seems extreme (and idiotic), but I haven't seen any department entirely defunded. Then again, I'm just reading articles rather than the bill itself, so maybe I'm wrong...
 
2011-02-28 04:35:52 PM

Shaggy_C: How, exactly? He's just gearing to make taxes the key battle of the 2012 elections. I'm sure running on jacking up tax rates is going to be a winning proposition.


1) Everybody is complaining about the budget deficit, which for this year is projected to be $1.6 trillion. People want to get us back to a a balanced budget.
2) The Republicans came into power pledging to reduce spending by $100 billion. Which is a lot less than $1.6 trillion, btw.
3) The Republicans quickly backed down from that number, realizing that cutting out that much would be too unpopular.

My question to you is, at what point do you think the country will finally wise up and admit that no amount of cutting is going to get us to a balanced budget without significantly raising taxes at the same time?

Shaggy_C: Isn't the difference $61 billion this year alone? That's not exactly chump change; it's a 5% reduction in the deficit.


Yes, a five percent reduction is definitely chump change.

It's like our collective house is ten feet under flood waters, and the Democrats are proposing to build a 12 inch sandbag barrier while the Republicans are proposing to build an 18 inch barrier.
 
2011-02-28 04:36:49 PM

Shaggy_C: LasersHurt: Hey, I condemn it too - Completely defunding programs you personally dislike isn't governance, it's childishness. Cut a percentage, sure, that's cutting for budget's sake - but totally killing funding for things just because you can? Bullshiat of the highest order.

What have they totally killed? I'll admit the 60% cut at the CFTC seems extreme (and idiotic), but I haven't seen any department entirely defunded. Then again, I'm just reading articles rather than the bill itself, so maybe I'm wrong...


Haven't they been trying in earnest to strip funding entirely from Planned Parenthood, PBS, etc? In essence, these are purely symbolic "fark you"s you the Democrats, and do little do address real budgetary problems. Hell they FOUGHT cutting that extra F35 engine, and nobody even WANTED that thing.
 
2011-02-28 04:37:07 PM

Bacontastesgood: Some of those comments on the Hill are fark troll level:

I doubt Obama will run in 2012. He may have a hard time meeting ballot requirements in several states.

Some people open their windows and instead of the sun and the moon they see Limbaugh and Beck's heads floating gloriously through the sky.


the best thing about all the birther bills is the requirement for the "Original Birth Certificate" which i doubt anyone will be able to produce.
 
2011-02-28 04:37:47 PM

Talondel: Emposter: Shaggy_C: The reason the shutdown in 1995 was not a boon for Republicans was because it was over something idiotic, like a 2% difference in the budget. You're not getting that this time, as Obama has shown no inclination that he wants to move to a balanced budget, both through his massive spending increases and his huge tax cuts.

Yes, damn Obama and the democrats for extending the Bush tax cuts. Totally not the GOP's doing.


We're through the looking glass here people.

If Obama doesn't want to claim credit for the tax cuts, then maybe he should stop telling anyone who'll listen about how he's cutting taxes, and how he campaigned on tax cuts for the middle class.


As if there is anything else he can do after making those idiotic compromises without looking even worse than he already does for making them.
 
2011-02-28 04:38:32 PM

GAT_00: Republicans obstruct at all costs = people blame Democrats.


You're off message. The story, from the earlier thread, is "Republicans did this before and will be blamed for it if they do it again." Get with the program!
 
2011-02-28 04:38:52 PM

Andyr2120: Cinaed: Andyr2120: Until that starts, this is Boehner's Waterloo.

I like to think of it as his Macho Grande.

Over Macho Grande?


Boehner will never get over Macho Grande.

/that's the hope anyway
 
2011-02-28 04:40:36 PM

Lando Lincoln: Everybody is complaining about the budget deficit, which for this year is projected to be $1.6 trillion. People want to get us back to a a balanced budget.


But no one agrees on how to do it. The deficit may make for great arguments but electorally it is always a losing proposition to run on austerity. Just look at the last midterms.
 
2011-02-28 04:42:05 PM

LasersHurt: Haven't they been trying in earnest to strip funding entirely from Planned Parenthood, PBS, etc? In essence, these are purely symbolic "fark you"s you the Democrats, and do little do address real budgetary problems.


Yes, but I believe a lot of those things were stripped out of the bill passed in the House. Some of the Tea Party guys are trying to double the $60 billion in cuts, so this seems like the GOP's version of a compromise.
 
2011-02-28 04:42:59 PM
Tennessee SB 366 includes:

(B) The affidavit prescribed in subdivision (a)(2)(A) shall include references to
and attachment of all of the following, which shall be sworn to under penalty of
perjury:
(i) An original long form birth certificate that includes the date and
place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician, and
signatures of the witnesses in attendance
;
(ii) A sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held
dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to
the United States of America; and
(iii) A sworn statement or form that identifies the candidate's
places of residence in the United States for the preceding fourteen (14)
years.


Not a copy, an original.
 
2011-02-28 04:43:44 PM

Shaggy_C: But no one agrees on how to do it.


No one even PROPOSES how to do it. Big difference.
 
2011-02-28 04:44:51 PM

Lando Lincoln: No one even PROPOSES how to do it. Big difference.


Because all of the proposals have to be within certain recognized constraints in order to be taken seriously. This means no cuts more than a few percent and no tax hikes beyond the rates from the 1990s. Why do you think the deficit commission recommendation went nowhere?
 
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