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(CBS News)   U.S. stocks stabilize after the entire country goes, "Holy crap gasoline costs WAT NOW?"   (cbsnews.com) divider line 61
    More: Hero, Holy Crap, U.S., International Energy Agency, NASDAQ Composite, Libyan, tax preparation, capital deepening, Target Corp.  
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4046 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Feb 2011 at 5:50 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-25 01:24:33 AM
A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.
 
2011-02-25 04:44:51 AM
unlikely: A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.


I lost about $2000 in the last two days...

I will blame anyone I damn well want!
 
2011-02-25 06:39:52 AM
For all but the tiny handful who pull the strings (and that does not include YOU) the stock market is nothing but flat-out gambling.
Any working person who stakes their future on it is a fool.
 
2011-02-25 07:22:05 AM
I know it's a meme to say random things affect the stock market. But, it's also reality. Every day I read something like "Stocks slump on Lybia worries" or "Stocks up on lower than expected unemployment."
Maybe I don't understand how the stock market works, but why does my Verizon stock go down because of what's going on in Lybia?
I'm sure it is much too complicated to explain on Fark. I'm really just griping.

/ Fark you Tesla! That'll teach me to try to balance my environment killing stocks.
 
2011-02-25 07:29:09 AM
I suspect that oil futures holders just want a reason to crank the price up, Libya being a perfect excuse. Call me ignorant, but how does instability in a country that provides us 2% of our gasoline justify increasing the price 50% or more? Does anyone really expect that suddenly the comfy/rich Saudis will be struck with political instability, or is this just a guise for ripping off consumers?

If I'm wrong, please explain why. I'm all ears.
 
2011-02-25 07:54:50 AM

utahraptor2: I suspect that oil futures holders just want a reason to crank the price up, Libya being a perfect excuse. Call me ignorant, but how does instability in a country that provides us 2% of our gasoline justify increasing the price 50% or more? Does anyone really expect that suddenly the comfy/rich Saudis will be struck with political instability, or is this just a guise for ripping off consumers?

If I'm wrong, please explain why. I'm all ears.


My take is futures prices have been bid up on concerns the contagion could spread to other oil-producing countries (not just in the ME) that rake in the cash and have millions of poor, angry and armed young men. Because future prices are up, people are buying spot (today's) prices as they can make a profit between the two, even including storage costs.

1. Buy oil
2. Sell later
3. Profit!
 
2011-02-25 07:59:30 AM

utahraptor2: I suspect that oil futures holders just want a reason to crank the price up, Libya being a perfect excuse. Call me ignorant, but how does instability in a country that provides us 2% of our gasoline justify increasing the price 50% or more?


Our oil prices do not exist in a vacuum. Much of Libya's oil goes to Europe. If that supply is disrupted, it has to be replaced by oil from somewhere else. Oil we also want to buy.
 
2011-02-25 08:25:06 AM
Meh, gas shot up 30 cents over-night Monday at the local Sheetz. I'm betting it remains at that price regardless of how much oil prices drop.

/the gas that was affected by the increase in price hasn't even made it here yet...
//passing the savings on to YOU!
 
2011-02-25 08:38:09 AM

baka-san: unlikely: A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.

I lost about $2000 in the last two days...

I will blame anyone I damn well want!


Never heard of logic taught in high school, around here it's college only. And not community college either. And the only reason people take it is that it counts as a math credit towards a liberal arts degree (though you still have to pass finite math). Symbolic logic was the way to go at my alma mater, since it was an online self-paced course.

Besides, commodities prices and the stock market have nothing to do with logic. It's a bunch of lemmings with a lot of other people's money looking for any flimsy excuse to buy or sell a lot of something and watching what everyone else is doing to gauge what's next.
 
2011-02-25 08:53:37 AM
STFU about the price of gas already. You knew what you were getting when you moved 40 min from where you work. Deal with it
 
2011-02-25 09:04:49 AM

Cajnik: STFU about the price of gas already. You knew what you were getting when you moved 40 min from where you work. Deal with it


And when you bought that great big pickup truck
 
2011-02-25 09:05:31 AM

Cajnik: STFU about the price of gas already. You knew what you were getting when you moved 40 min from where you work. Deal with it


Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.
 
2011-02-25 09:10:05 AM

baka-san: unlikely: A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.

I lost about $2000 in the last two days...

I will blame anyone I damn well want!


That's a pretty meaningless piece of information, without knowing how much money we're dealing with, total.

For example, I only had to finance 12k for my new car, which has a sticker price of 19.5k Yippie!

Of course, that's after I got 2500 cash back, traded in my old car for about the same, and put 2k down.
 
2011-02-25 09:13:01 AM

baka-san: unlikely: A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.

I lost about $2000 in the last two days...

I will blame anyone I damn well want!


Look you were told that slut was just after your money, it is nobodies fault but your own that you took her back to your hotel room, he put roofies in your drink, and stole your wallet. Next time plan your gay sex better dumbass.
 
2011-02-25 09:14:57 AM
Can we have an alternative fuel source now, please?

images.wikia.com
 
2011-02-25 09:17:51 AM
i love americans' collective amnesia.

four years ago, gas was $4+ a gallon and everyone went apeshiat. now people are realizing that it could happen again, but they're acting surprised. this is the same amnesia that got the teabaggers elected to congress just two years after their kind nearly destroyed the global economy.

we get what we deserve, people.
 
2011-02-25 09:20:42 AM
On top of the people biatching about "just deal with the gas prices", a barrel(42 gal.) of crude is used to produce (with gallons in parenthesis):
Gasoline (19.3)
Distillate Fuel Oil - Inc. Home Heating and Diesel Fuel (9.83)
Kerosene Type Jet Fuel (4.24)
Residual Fuel Oil (2.10)
Petroleum Coke (2.10)
Liquified Refinery Gases (1.89)
Still Gas (1.81)
Asphalt and Road Oil (1.13)
Petrochemical Feed Supplies (0.97)
Lubricants (0.46)
Kerosene (0.21)
Waxes (0.04)
Aviation Fuel (0.04)
Other Products (0.34)
 
2011-02-25 09:29:35 AM

ghare: Cajnik: STFU about the price of gas already. You knew what you were getting when you moved 40 min from where you work. Deal with it

And when you bought that great big pickup truck


I do drive 40 miles to work, and I drive a 4x4. So I'm getting a kick...

Ok, it's actually a Subaru hatchback, I average 29mpg, and I work at home a couple days a week. Bbbuttt can't I be indignant?

Trying...trying...nah
 
2011-02-25 09:44:43 AM
Are we really going to have another iteration of the tired old debate about whether rising oil prices and increasing scarcity are a "good" or a "bad" thing?
Don't matter, folks. It's an inevitable thing.
 
2011-02-25 09:46:18 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com

/Oblig.
 
2011-02-25 09:57:28 AM

Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.


The first three are personal choices, the last two are affected by more than just the price of gas. Like the shiatty value of the USD
 
2011-02-25 10:04:19 AM
I am a commodities trader and I am going to be super-wealthy because I was smart enough to predict the middle east uprisings and subsequent surge in oil prices. You guys will hear my G-6 flying above your ghetto homes.
 
2011-02-25 10:10:42 AM

unlikely: A happened and then B happened.


YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT!
 
2011-02-25 10:11:21 AM
It's okay, I take the bus.

/powered by rainbows.
 
2011-02-25 10:12:24 AM

Land Ark: Maybe I don't understand how the stock market works, but why does my Verizon stock go down because of what's going on in Lybia?
I'm sure it is much too complicated to explain on Fark. I'm really just griping.


The economy at large and the stock market function based largely on emotions. If people are worried about a potential recession they will start saving more which reduces spending, which causes layoffs, which causes recessions. It also causes the stock market to fluctuate. The Libya concern is largely about oil prices. Oil is used for EVERYTHING. It's in the fertilizers that grow food, production of plastic, and obviously the transport of all goods across the board. If the price of oil goes up, the price of everything goes up. This drags on the economy and is why the stock market across the board, including your Verizon stock, goes down.
 
2011-02-25 10:13:15 AM
I'm simply trying to use futures contracts to hedge against fuel price increases for my trucking company. Wake me up when you have to file a quarterly fuel tax return for your family car.
 
2011-02-25 10:16:30 AM

DubyaHater: I am a commodities trader and I am going to be super-wealthy because I was smart enough to predict the middle east uprisings and subsequent surge in oil prices. You guys will hear my G-6 flying above your ghetto homes.


G6? Pfft. I've got a G7 that tows a boat that tows another plane.
 
2011-02-25 10:22:22 AM

FlashHarry: i love americans' collective amnesia.

four years ago, gas was $4+ a gallon and everyone went apeshiat. now people are realizing that it could happen again, but they're acting surprised. this is the same amnesia that got the teabaggers elected to congress just two years after their kind nearly destroyed the global economy.

we get what we deserve, people.


I believe this was a record year for sales of F-150s, no?

On the one hand, I don't biatch (too much) about gas prices--compared to the rest of the world, we're doing alright.

On the other hand, if you are one of those biatching about gas prices, make sure your own house is in order, first.

/shortcsb: outside my old apartment building, there was a guy who lived a couple houses up. He drove a Bronco with the following bumper sticker attached: "Gas Prices Suck".
 
2011-02-25 10:25:07 AM

Land Ark: I know it's a meme to say random things affect the stock market. But, it's also reality. Every day I read something like "Stocks slump on Lybia worries" or "Stocks up on lower than expected unemployment."
Maybe I don't understand how the stock market works, but why does my Verizon stock go down because of what's going on in Lybia?
I'm sure it is much too complicated to explain on Fark. I'm really just griping.


The market has nothing to do with how good a companies product is, if its supply chain is being choked, who gets elected in a country 5,000 miles away, or hell, even if you actually have customers.

The stock market is simply a way for people to gamble without having to go to Vegas or an race track. Its the same strategies, luck, and guessing.

If anyone ever really did "understand" the stock market, the system would collapse.
 
2011-02-25 10:28:31 AM

Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.


Who pays for work travel?
 
2011-02-25 10:32:16 AM

thornhill: Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.

Who pays for work travel?


People who own the business
 
2011-02-25 10:35:25 AM

the_geek: The economy at large and the stock market function based largely on emotions.


It never ceases to amaze me that people think this is a good thing.

/yes, I know, no one has come up with anything better, etc
 
2011-02-25 10:36:21 AM
I gassed up for $3.65.

Accent: Cajnik: STFU about the price of gas already. You knew what you were getting when you moved 40 min from where you work. Deal with it

Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.


Meh... I'm hardly high income, and I live in a high cost-of-living place, and I dealt with $4 gas three years ago while I was driving an SUV. Now I own a little economic hatchback. Gasoline, groceries, and utilities come up to less than 10% of my household expenses. If beer gets more expensive (already $5-6 for a pint most places, unless you get domestic piss-water), I might get a bit testy, but otherwise... meh.

Go to a grocery store and look at the things people buy... they complain about the cost of groceries, but look in their carts. Bottled water? 24 packs of Coke? Freezer dinners? Buy some actual ingredients and cook them yourself - it's really not that expensive.
 
2011-02-25 10:46:38 AM

utahraptor2: I suspect that oil futures holders just want a reason to crank the price up, Libya being a perfect excuse. Call me ignorant, but how does instability in a country that provides us 2% of our gasoline justify increasing the price 50% or more? Does anyone really expect that suddenly the comfy/rich Saudis will be struck with political instability, or is this just a guise for ripping off consumers?

If I'm wrong, please explain why. I'm all ears.


Oil futures holders only get to crank up the price if someone is willing to buy at that price. Market results and prices are based on what some group of people randomly want the price to be, it reports the actual price agreed by a buyer and seller for a commodity, contract, share or whatever. Now they might be able to get the price people are willing to pay for the thing they are selling by getting people in the media to speculate how much higher the price might go in the future, and that might be very ethically dubious (or even potentially criminal if done directly).

Energy use is pretty inelastic, especially in the short time - most of the time where it is being used the benefits are massively higher than the price, so continuing using petrol/gas/electricity makes sense still even as the price goes up.

To illustrate the effect in the extreme - if a group of 10 people needed a pill to live each day, and there were 10 pills created each day, the price would be very low. If later there were only 9 pills available, do you think the price would only rise by 11%? Or would it rocket up to be just more expensive than every penny the 10th people has (for one day anyway, seeing as after that they would be dead in this example and the price for the 9 the next day would drop back down to next to nothing again).
 
2011-02-25 10:47:50 AM

Accent: thornhill: Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.

Who pays for work travel?

People who own the business


If you're not billing your client for your travel expenses or building it into you're pricing, you're doing it wrong.
 
2011-02-25 10:50:47 AM

Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.


That's your own damn fault. Condoms are cheaper than babies... although with current oil prices... OH SHI....
 
2011-02-25 10:51:20 AM

thornhill: Accent: thornhill: Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.

Who pays for work travel?

People who own the business

If you're not billing your client for your travel expenses or building it into you're pricing, you're doing it wrong.


Yeah, I'll bill my clients for my travel expenses... when I'm trying to get them to buy my product...

When the price of transportation increases unexpectedly (sorry, I can't predict Libya shiatting their pants) it screws up the budget.

If nothing ever fluctuated, the stock market would only move 4 times a year.
 
2011-02-25 10:55:06 AM

loser0: It never ceases to amaze me that people think this is a good thing.


I wasn't stating it was a good thing, just stating what is.
 
2011-02-25 11:05:10 AM
Gas is one of many people's primary expenditures, but the government can talk about how inflation is fine to big business because their inflation measurements give it little weight
 
2011-02-25 11:06:50 AM

unlikely: A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.


Yeah, because correlation implies no causation. So don't even try to think there might be a cause when there's a correlation.
 
2011-02-25 11:21:32 AM
www.zerohedge.com
 
2011-02-25 11:31:38 AM

Katolu: Meh, gas shot up 30 cents over-night Monday at the local Sheetz. I'm betting it remains at that price regardless of how much oil prices drop.

/the gas that was affected by the increase in price hasn't even made it here yet...
//passing the savings on to YOU!


Gas went up 10 cents at my local Sheetz. Funny thing is the sign said the new price but they did not update the pumps yet. So the sign said $3.19 and I got it for $3.09.

/crappy thing is I have to do two 340 mile round trips to NJ for work next week.
//I get $.51 a mile for it though and will get about 13 hours of OT
///get paid to drive as well as for the mileage
////should be a great next paycheck as well as expense check
 
2011-02-25 11:38:26 AM

rumpelforeskin: unlikely: A happened and then B happened.

If anyone tries to draw a causal relation between them they deserve a slap to the back of the head and should be sent back to 7th grade for logic class.

Yeah, because correlation implies no causation. So don't even try to think there might be a cause when there's a correlation.


Sometimes there is causation but in this case there is no logical way to draw that conclusion.

Gas cost rose, and then stocks stabilized. Both statements are true and happened in sequence but there is nothing to suggest a causal relation. I had mini wheats for breakfast yesterday, you posted something fairly stupid today. Sequence, yes; causal relation probably not.

As much as it pains me to stick up for a partisan gasbag like unlikely, he is right on this one.
 
2011-02-25 11:42:40 AM

Ramayana: I had mini wheats for breakfast yesterday, you posted something fairly stupid today. Sequence, yes; causal relation probably not.


Dude, this is fark. You can't explain this much bullshiat without some kind of fiber-telepathy.
 
2011-02-25 11:43:53 AM
farm5.static.flickr.com
 
2011-02-25 11:49:19 AM
The thing is, this was all foreseeable. Gas prices spiked in 2005 around Katrina (let's just ignore the gas crises since they were a generation ago). Prices spiked again in 2006. They went into a huge climb in 2007 and 2008. True, there was a huge reprieve in 2009, but who would seriously believe that $2/gallon gasoline was sustainable? We had a program to allow people to ditch gas-hogs at above market value, and get into more efficient vehicles.

The Katrina spikes were five and a half years ago. That's plenty of time to heed the wake-up call. The 2008 spikes were three years ago. What were people buying for the past 2 years? What are the hot cars on the market? More crossovers. A 400 hp Mustang. I get it, some people need to be able haul things, butthere are options. Somehow all of Europe gets by without everyone and their brother driving Tahoes and Rams. If you like your urban tank and can afford the gas, more power to you. If you bought a vehicle without planning for at least $5 gasoline as a possibility, you have failed the "Not a Moron" test.

I feel for people who are stretched to their limits despite making responsible decisions, but these price spikes bring out a lot of moaning and whining from people who have no grounds for it. If you pet the dog and get bit once, that's unfortunate. If you keep petting the dog, you're a moron. And don't give me the "But I have 8 kids" line. You should have them unless you know you are financially secure.
 
2011-02-25 11:49:23 AM

mctwin2kman: Katolu: Meh, gas shot up 30 cents over-night Monday at the local Sheetz. I'm betting it remains at that price regardless of how much oil prices drop.

/the gas that was affected by the increase in price hasn't even made it here yet...
//passing the savings on to YOU!

Gas went up 10 cents at my local Sheetz. Funny thing is the sign said the new price but they did not update the pumps yet. So the sign said $3.19 and I got it for $3.09.

/crappy thing is I have to do two 340 mile round trips to NJ for work next week.
//I get $.51 a mile for it though and will get about 13 hours of OT
///get paid to drive as well as for the mileage
////should be a great next paycheck as well as expense check


I'm surprised that they haven't tied a direct line from the gas pump price to the oil commodities market so that any bump upwards causes an automatic change at the pump. You could start off with filling your tank at $3.20/gal and by the time you are finished, it would be jacked up to $5.34/gal.
 
2011-02-25 11:51:49 AM

LemSkroob: Land Ark: I know it's a meme to say random things affect the stock market. But, it's also reality. Every day I read something like "Stocks slump on Lybia worries" or "Stocks up on lower than expected unemployment."
Maybe I don't understand how the stock market works, but why does my Verizon stock go down because of what's going on in Lybia?
I'm sure it is much too complicated to explain on Fark. I'm really just griping.

The market has nothing to do with how good a companies product is, if its supply chain is being choked, who gets elected in a country 5,000 miles away, or hell, even if you actually have customers.

The stock market is simply a way for people to gamble without having to go to Vegas or an race track. Its the same strategies, luck, and guessing.

If anyone ever really did "understand" the stock market, the system would collapse.



Hey, the rumor of Steve Jobs dying made me about $2000!
 
2011-02-25 11:52:13 AM
calculator13 [TotalFark] 2011-02-25 11:21:32 AM
www.zerohedge.com

//This^
FTA: "Higher oil prices can also slow the U.S. economy by increasing transportation costs."

And when America even attempts to stop wasting and consuming...
the rest of the world takes a tumble.
When America actually goes on strike, the world economy will be in cardiac arrest.
In view of the consequences, the world is far better off to guarantee, subsidize, if necessary give, cheap oil to the US.
 
2011-02-25 11:58:13 AM

Accent: thornhill: Accent: thornhill: Accent: Says the guy who doesn't have to pay for work travel, rides his bike to the grocery store, doesn't have kids to take places, doesn't travel by jet/plane anywhere, thinks all things just magically appear in stores without having to get there by truck.

Who pays for work travel?

People who own the business

If you're not billing your client for your travel expenses or building it into you're pricing, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah, I'll bill my clients for my travel expenses... when I'm trying to get them to buy my product...

When the price of transportation increases unexpectedly (sorry, I can't predict Libya shiatting their pants) it screws up the budget.

If nothing ever fluctuated, the stock market would only move 4 times a year.


Conduct your business however you want, but all of your expenses, including travel, should be built into your fees. Obviously you cannot predict unexpected spikes in gas prices, but you shouldn't assume prices will remain static and predictable.
 
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