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(Yahoo)   Fannie Mae:"America, what's happening? If you got the memo you'll know we lost $21.7 billion last year. So if you could go ahead and give us $2.1 billion more, that'd be great"   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 50
    More: Sad, Fannie Mae, Federal Housing Administration, Bank of Japan, Ice T, GSEs, toxic assets, McLean, line of credits  
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1795 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Feb 2011 at 12:26 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-02-24 09:57:48 PM  
Fannie Mae,

Maybe you didn't get the memo. We're shutting you and your brother, Freddie Mac, down.

Sincerely,
America
 
2011-02-24 10:12:01 PM  
Ah, so it's like Defense Department overruns?
 
2011-02-24 11:11:48 PM  
The private market would wither and die without federal agencies to back the mortgages.

Wanna see real pain? Shut down these two rotting pieces of crap. It'll be epic.
 
2011-02-24 11:37:38 PM  

NewportBarGuy: The private market would wither and die without federal agencies to back the mortgages.

Wanna see real pain? Shut down these two rotting pieces of crap. It'll be epic.


No it won't. The mortgage industry would grind to a halt immediately and thousands fired. Construction busts with thousands more fired. Suddenly you have a huge jump in unemployment and people not paying for things causing even more foreclosures, credit card defaults, car defaults, etc. Banks will fail at a greater rate and bank runs will occur.

With the financial and construction crew out of work the state's already strained social programs will collapse and ask for federal aid. The feds will print more money (Bernanke is now the largest holder of US debt and this transition occurred in only 3 years, over taking China).

Now we get into credit default swaps and on a macro scale the US economy will be downgraded; interest rates on US borrowing will eclipse what we spend on national defense.

In the meantime on main street with such a huge sector looking for work and not buying anything, the consumer industries will start to collapse (i.e. retail, food, amusement, etc). These people will be placed out of work and on to the State and Fed govt for help. All these people and nobody able to create jobs.

The sad fact is the US economy is a horrible house of cards that could easily collapse at any time. A major sector failure and we're pretty much boned.
 
2011-02-25 12:29:51 AM  
wake me when they've lost the trillions wall street has.
 
2011-02-25 12:32:46 AM  

dahmers love zombie: Ah, so it's like Defense Department overruns?


Ooh. They should claim they are part of the Defense Department. Then they'd get the funding without question.
 
2011-02-25 12:36:19 AM  

dustman81: Fannie Mae,

Maybe you didn't get the memo. We're shutting you and your brother, Freddie Mac, down after giving you senior managers another round of huge bonuses.

Sincerely,
America

 
2011-02-25 12:56:10 AM  
Call me silly, but first thing I thought of is WTF is a candy company asking for that much money.
Link (new window)
/Damn I miss them being in Chicago
 
2011-02-25 01:03:58 AM  
Amazing, just amazing.
The private financial institutions fleece pension plans and Fannie and Freddie, and what do people do? Blame the people fleeced rather than the real criminals.
Does greed really blind you that much?
 
2011-02-25 01:22:20 AM  

mauricecano: NewportBarGuy: The private market would wither and die without federal agencies to back the mortgages.

Wanna see real pain? Shut down these two rotting pieces of crap. It'll be epic.

No it won't. The mortgage industry would grind to a halt immediately and thousands fired. Construction busts with thousands more fired. Suddenly you have a huge jump in unemployment and people not paying for things causing even more foreclosures, credit card defaults, car defaults, etc. Banks will fail at a greater rate and bank runs will occur.

With the financial and construction crew out of work the state's already strained social programs will collapse and ask for federal aid. The feds will print more money (Bernanke is now the largest holder of US debt and this transition occurred in only 3 years, over taking China).

Now we get into credit default swaps and on a macro scale the US economy will be downgraded; interest rates on US borrowing will eclipse what we spend on national defense.

In the meantime on main street with such a huge sector looking for work and not buying anything, the consumer industries will start to collapse (i.e. retail, food, amusement, etc). These people will be placed out of work and on to the State and Fed govt for help. All these people and nobody able to create jobs.

The sad fact is the US economy is a horrible house of cards that could easily collapse at any time. A major sector failure and we're pretty much boned.


Part of me wishes the Republicans could enact every piece of their agenda just so the country could experience the ensuing catastrophe and permanently turn away from supply side economics and wedge politics. Unfortunately, I don't hate humanity quite enough to want so many people to suffer needlessly.
 
2011-02-25 01:27:03 AM  

Stile4aly: Part of me wishes the Republicans could enact every piece of their agenda just so the country could experience the ensuing catastrophe and permanently turn away from supply side economics and wedge politics. Unfortunately, I don't hate humanity quite enough to want so many people to suffer needlessly.


That and the unemployed and destitute would find a way to blame "the libs"
 
2011-02-25 01:47:29 AM  

dustman81: Fannie Mae,

Maybe you didn't get the memo. We're shutting you and your brother, Freddie Mac, down.

Sincerely,
America



I don't even think this is possible. It would tank the economy. I don't think you can just shut them down.
 
2011-02-25 01:59:45 AM  
Don't worry. Barney Franks to the rescue!

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-02-25 02:01:58 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Call me silly, but first thing I thought of is WTF is a candy company asking for that much money.
Link (new window)
/Damn I miss them being in Chicago


I've been saying this since I was a kid, so you are not alone...
/'burbs...
 
2011-02-25 02:13:52 AM  

Big Al: Amazing, just amazing.
The private financial institutions fleece pension plans and Fannie and Freddie, and what do people do? Blame the people fleeced rather than the real criminals.
Does greed really blind you that much?


If Fannie Mae can't make sensible investments with its assets and isn't competent enough to see through get rich quick scams and fraud, it's kinda failed at its core purpose anyhow. I'd say maybe farming it out to a third-party agency that's less "government bank" and more "bank with government contracts" might help, but the fully private banks are screwing it up, too.
 
2011-02-25 02:48:17 AM  
Another sign of the doom of the middle class: Even after it's been explained to them time and again that Fannie and Freddie did nothing to cause this bubble, everyone blames them. Why? Because they were created by the eeeeeeebil gubmint. No other reason is plausible at this point. The idolatry of the private sector is such that, even when they did all the wrong, they can do no wrong. And the demonization of the state is such that, even when they did nothing at all, they're responsible for everything.
 
2011-02-25 04:09:41 AM  

IlGreven: Another sign of the doom of the middle class: Even after it's been explained to them time and again that Fannie and Freddie did nothing to cause this bubble, everyone blames them. Why? Because they were created by the eeeeeeebil gubmint. No other reason is plausible at this point. The idolatry of the private sector is such that, even when they did all the wrong, they can do no wrong. And the demonization of the state is such that, even when they did nothing at all, they're responsible for everything.


That's not true at all. They weren't blamed for being created by the government, they were blamed for having anything to do with mortgages. Everything and everyone that had anything to do with housing, right or wrong, gets a finger pointing.
 
2011-02-25 04:25:58 AM  
Good lord, the amount of spin on that article is incredible.

If you read carefully, the 2.1 billion "loss" actually includes 2.2 billion in dividend payments to the government. And the total government aid to Freddie and Fannie actually declined by $700 million as they repaid more than they took.

How is that anything but good news?
 
2011-02-25 07:18:46 AM  

picturescrazy: IlGreven: Another sign of the doom of the middle class: Even after it's been explained to them time and again that Fannie and Freddie did nothing to cause this bubble, everyone blames them. Why? Because they were created by the eeeeeeebil gubmint. No other reason is plausible at this point. The idolatry of the private sector is such that, even when they did all the wrong, they can do no wrong. And the demonization of the state is such that, even when they did nothing at all, they're responsible for everything.

That's not true at all. They weren't blamed for being created by the government, they were blamed for having anything to do with mortgages. Everything and everyone that had anything to do with housing, right or wrong, gets a finger pointing.


Except Wall St.
 
2011-02-25 07:33:24 AM  

picturescrazy: IlGreven: Another sign of the doom of the middle class: Even after it's been explained to them time and again that Fannie and Freddie did nothing to cause this bubble, everyone blames them. Why? Because they were created by the eeeeeeebil gubmint. No other reason is plausible at this point. The idolatry of the private sector is such that, even when they did all the wrong, they can do no wrong. And the demonization of the state is such that, even when they did nothing at all, they're responsible for everything.

That's not true at all. They weren't blamed for being created by the government, they were blamed for having anything to do with mortgages. Everything and everyone that had anything to do with housing, right or wrong, gets a finger pointing.


And yet, everyone thinks that the bubble was caused by Fannie and Freddie. I wonder which Foxy News organization is pushing that narrative?
 
2011-02-25 08:49:01 AM  
Our money is debt. What do you expect to happen when you pay debt with more debt?
 
2011-02-25 08:58:24 AM  

Jim_Callahan: If Fannie Mae can't make sensible investments with its assets and isn't competent enough to see through get rich quick scams and fraud, it's kinda failed at its core purpose anyhow. I'd say maybe farming it out to a third-party agency that's less "government bank" and more "bank with government contracts" might help, but the fully private banks are screwing it up, too.


Eh, consider the source. Government is blameless.
 
2011-02-25 09:30:55 AM  

LiquidSky: Good lord, the amount of spin on that article is incredible.

If you read carefully, the 2.1 billion "loss" actually includes 2.2 billion in dividend payments to the government. And the total government aid to Freddie and Fannie actually declined by $700 million as they repaid more than they took.

How is that anything but good news?


Also, this is the second quarter in a row where this has happened. F&F would have shown profits, profits that would have allowed them to begin paying back the treasury (ie taxpayers), if they interest rate on SR pfds were 6 or even 7%, not 10. This is so impossibly dumb, I don't know why no one's been cock-punched over it.
 
2011-02-25 09:38:03 AM  

picturescrazy: That's not true at all. They weren't blamed for being created by the government, they were blamed for having anything to do with mortgages. Everything and everyone that had anything to do with housing, right or wrong, gets a finger pointing.


But, But, But Fannie&Freddie made shiat filled sausages!!! Who invented and proliferated the practice of selling AAA-rated shiat to the incredibly efficient and mature sausage-making process known as F&F? They did exactly what they were supposed to do, make delicious sausages.

Touch a hot oven, and then blame it for being hot. tea-tards...
 
2011-02-25 10:21:08 AM  
Someone set us up the bomb.
 
2011-02-25 10:51:12 AM  

NewportBarGuy: The private market would wither and die without federal agencies to back the mortgages.

Wanna see real pain? Shut down these two rotting pieces of crap. It'll be epic.


Wrong. Tax payers will stop subsidizing debt ownership, at least less so than they are now. We need to stop propping this industry.
 
2011-02-25 10:51:46 AM  
img152.imageshack.us
 
2011-02-25 11:42:02 AM  
Good, maybe then we can go back to the halcyon days of banking and mortgages before the government created Fannie Mae. Because we all know how well the banks and free market self regulated in the 1920's.

Plus, who really needs a 30 year mortgage anyways. The 'best' home loan you could get, before the government got involved, was a 50% down, 10-year loan.
 
2011-02-25 12:11:39 PM  

IlGreven: Another sign of the doom of the middle class: Even after it's been explained to them time and again that Fannie and Freddie did nothing to cause this bubble, everyone blames them. Why? Because they were created by the eeeeeeebil gubmint. No other reason is plausible at this point. The idolatry of the private sector is such that, even when they did all the wrong, they can do no wrong. And the demonization of the state is such that, even when they did nothing at all, they're responsible for everything.


WTF are you talking about? This whole scheme that backfired was part of official government policy in cooperation with the private sector. Sure a few banks were good at playing pass the parcel (see AIG) since that is sometimes how the street works. Bill Clinton speech on the national housing strategy from circa 95' or 96' (of course Bush is the one that followed it through to its disastrous conclusion):

I want to say this one more time, and I want to thank again all the people here from the private sector who have worked with Secretary Cisneros [HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros] on this: Our home ownership strategy will not cost the taxpayers one extra cent. It will not require legislation. It will not add more Federal programs or grow Federal bureaucracy.

You clearly do not understand how mortgage banking works in America to still be pointing at the banks as the originators of this debacle.
 
2011-02-25 12:22:12 PM  

MrSteve007: Good, maybe then we can go back to the halcyon days of banking and mortgages before the government created Fannie Mae. Because we all know how well the banks and free market self regulated in the 1920's.

Plus, who really needs a 30 year mortgage anyways. The 'best' home loan you could get, before the government got involved, was a 50% down, 10-year loan.


That was the best and sustainable rate a private market could come up with, mayhaps?

Let's rewind even further shall we? The purpose of the Federal Reserve System was to try to counteract the business cycle. There have been just as many recessionary periods since the Federal Reserve set up shop as there were beforehand. So what have they accomplished again?

And this regulation that the government supposedly provides usually accomplishes what exactly? There was a regulator for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac his name was Armando Falcon Jr. Do you really think he stood a chance against their leadership who were heralded by the government and media alike as financial rock stars? Even though his task was admittedly impossible, do you know what his punishment was for failure? A $215,000 federal pension. If that is the worst that can happen to you, I'd like to sign up.
 
2011-02-25 12:26:15 PM  

IlGreven: picturescrazy: IlGreven: Another sign of the doom of the middle class: Even after it's been explained to them time and again that Fannie and Freddie did nothing to cause this bubble, everyone blames them. Why? Because they were created by the eeeeeeebil gubmint. No other reason is plausible at this point. The idolatry of the private sector is such that, even when they did all the wrong, they can do no wrong. And the demonization of the state is such that, even when they did nothing at all, they're responsible for everything.

That's not true at all. They weren't blamed for being created by the government, they were blamed for having anything to do with mortgages. Everything and everyone that had anything to do with housing, right or wrong, gets a finger pointing.

And yet, everyone thinks that the bubble was caused by Fannie and Freddie. I wonder which Foxy News organization is pushing that narrative?


Actually anyone who understands mortgage finance in this country knows that to be true without question. Bill Clinton speech on the national homeownership strategy circa 1996:

I want to say this one more time, and I want to thank again all the people here from the private sector who have worked with Secretary Cisneros [HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros] on this: Our home ownership strategy will not cost the taxpayers one extra cent. It will not require legislation. It will not add more Federal programs or grow Federal bureaucracy.

everyone had their role to play: government, banks, consumers...but let's not forget who got the ball rolling.
 
2011-02-25 12:39:14 PM  

MrSteve007: Good, maybe then we can go back to the halcyon days of banking and mortgages before the government created Fannie Mae. Because we all know how well the banks and free market self regulated in the 1920's


Fannie and Freddie have nothing to do with regulating the market. They're buying dogshiat from the banks so that the banks can make more risky loans.

MrSteve007: Plus, who really needs a 30 year mortgage anyways. The 'best' home loan you could get, before the government got involved, was a 50% down, 10-year loan.


With shorter terms and higher DP requirements, Americans would be spending a WHOLE lot less in interest payments, not to mention home prices (and yes I think lower home prices are good for the country). Why make the cost of living higher than it ought to be? That's like putting a vacuum cleaner hose in the wallet of every American.
 
2011-02-25 12:51:35 PM  
Jim_Callahan Quote 2011-02-25 02:13:52 AM

If Fannie Mae can't make sensible investments with its assets and isn't competent enough to see through get rich quick scams and fraud, it's kinda failed at its core purpose anyhow. I'd say maybe farming it out to a third-party agency that's less "government bank" and more "bank with government contracts" might help, but the fully private banks are screwing it up, too.

>>>

What do you mean, get rich quick scams? They were investing in triple A rated securities. What scam? You mean they should have seen the future, and realized that the private banks and rating agencies conspired to falsify documents and give triple A ratings to securities that were not even A rating?
 
2011-02-25 12:52:30 PM  
GoldSpider Quote 2011-02-25 08:58:24 AM

Eh, consider the source. Government is blameless.

>>>

really? is that what you think I am?
 
2011-02-25 12:53:33 PM  
Amagi Quote 2011-02-25 12:26:15 PM

...but let's not forget who got the ball rolling.

>>>>

Reagan?
 
2011-02-25 12:57:01 PM  

Big Al: You mean they should have seen the future, and realized that the private banks and rating agencies conspired to falsify documents and give triple A ratings to securities that were not even A rating?


They could have done what I did and look at home prices throughout the country, realizing that they had doubled in a very short period of time without anywhere close to a corresponding increase in incomes. They do have economists working at those companies, you know.
 
2011-02-25 12:57:33 PM  
The federal government should seize all fanny back mortgages, become the servicer, cut the banks right the fark out.

They can hold foreclosed land and resell it later for a tidy profit. Also remove terms on loans, let people pay in perpetuity if they want, just have the land ownership revert to the fed upon death.
 
2011-02-25 01:27:18 PM  
wolvernova [TotalFark] Quote 2011-02-25 12:57:01 PM

They could have done what I did and look at home prices throughout the country, realizing that they had doubled in a very short period of time without anywhere close to a corresponding increase in incomes. They do have economists working at those companies, you know.

>>>

Does it really matter? As far as they were concerned, they were buying the creme de la creme of home buyers mortgages. Only a small percentage of total buyers have walked away. You are again, blaming the wrong people for fraud.
 
2011-02-25 01:43:08 PM  
LiquidSky Notice the market reaction to last night's release, which was apparently bad news? (not talking about the common.)
 
2011-02-25 01:49:59 PM  

Big Al: Does it really matter? As far as they were concerned, they were buying the creme de la creme of home buyers mortgages. Only a small percentage of total buyers have walked away. You are again, blaming the wrong people for fraud.


I'm not blaming them for fraud. The SEC and the mortgage lenders are responsible for that. You were implying that the only way they could have known this was going on was to see into the future. I knew it was going on when people like my (at the time) roommate went and bought a $320k condo on a $37k salary. When prices doubled in just a few years. Fannie and Freddie had about a million red flags right in front of them and ignored them all.
 
2011-02-25 03:21:47 PM  

Big Al: Amagi Quote 2011-02-25 12:26:15 PM

...but let's not forget who got the ball rolling.

>>>>

Reagan?


the government in general...yep
 
2011-02-25 03:22:48 PM  

mauricecano: NewportBarGuy: The private market would wither and die without federal agencies to back the mortgages.

Wanna see real pain? Shut down these two rotting pieces of crap. It'll be epic.

No it won't. The mortgage industry would grind to a halt immediately and thousands fired. Construction busts with thousands more fired. Suddenly you have a huge jump in unemployment and people not paying for things causing even more foreclosures, credit card defaults, car defaults, etc. Banks will fail at a greater rate and bank runs will occur.

With the financial and construction crew out of work the state's already strained social programs will collapse and ask for federal aid. The feds will print more money (Bernanke is now the largest holder of US debt and this transition occurred in only 3 years, over taking China).

Now we get into credit default swaps and on a macro scale the US economy will be downgraded; interest rates on US borrowing will eclipse what we spend on national defense.

In the meantime on main street with such a huge sector looking for work and not buying anything, the consumer industries will start to collapse (i.e. retail, food, amusement, etc). These people will be placed out of work and on to the State and Fed govt for help. All these people and nobody able to create jobs.

The sad fact is the US economy is a horrible house of cards that could easily collapse at any time. A major sector failure and we're pretty much boned.


LET IT BURN

America must suffer the dire consequences of socialism, so that we reject it utterly and never fall into the same trap again.

This is the bitter harvest of the seeds of Marxism planted when FDR, the liberals' High Priest of Big Government (Government is the liberal substitute for God), created Fannie Mae during the Great Depression.

So let the house of cards collapse. Real America will resist, reload, and rebuild.

Real Americans have God, guns, gold (thank God for Glenn Beck and Goldline!), and a work ethic to see us through.

Liberals won't last a week after the government collapse, because they're chickenshiat pansies who can't do anything without some government official or regulatory agency telling them what to do. They'll starve when their welfare checks stop coming in the mail and they can no longer buy chitlins, tortillas, and organic arugula from Whole Foods. They won't hunt, trap, or fish because that would be cruel to the poor critters. They won't forage because they have moral objections to pillaging Mother Earth's bounty. And they won't have any guns to prevent us from taking what few valuables they have left.

And when the new world is rebuilt, there won't be any gay wedding chapels. There won't be any abortion clinics. There sure won't be any schools brainwashing our children with global warming, evolution, and "diversity" propaganda.

People will know their place. Without affirmative action and liberal activist judges, some folks will have to get back to work like they did before the War of Northern Aggression. Womenfolk will have to get back to doing what they should have been doing all along, not pretending to be men.

No more Department of Education to fill our kids' heads with doubletalk. No more Environmental Protection Agency to tell us that spotted owls and snail darters are more important than loggers and fishermen. No more government interference in my Medicare and Social Security. And I can sleep better knowing that no government death panel will come and get me because their computers say I'm too old to be useful any more.

It will be a simpler world. A happier world. A world where the Ten Commandments is law, and the man-made wall of separation between Church and State will have been trampled into rubble and thrown on the dungheap of history.

And we will dwell in the House of the Lord for ever and ever, Amen.
 
2011-02-25 03:53:19 PM  

wolvernova: I'm not blaming them for fraud. The SEC and the mortgage lenders are responsible for that. You were implying that the only way they could have known this was going on was to see into the future. I knew it was going on when people like my (at the time) roommate went and bought a $320k condo on a $37k salary. When prices doubled in just a few years. Fannie and Freddie had about a million red flags right in front of them and ignored them all.


Looks like someone didn't read the FCIC report. They, F&F, were dragging their feet for years on joining the sub-prime market, but I certainly won't deny that they in fact did join it, and with gusto, but what other way is their to do business?

will try to substantiate that with a couple page #s in the pdf copy.
 
2011-02-25 04:21:51 PM  
Parthenogenetic 6/10

'doubletalk' gives you away as someone who has read a book, plus some of it was over the top, but you covered all the key points.
 
2011-02-25 04:36:17 PM  
page 533 of the pdf (which is page 506 of the report, respectively)

Oddly enough, this is Wallison's official dissent, attached to the report.
 
2011-02-25 06:58:46 PM  
Did anyone mention Freddie Mac is asking for more too?
 
2011-02-25 10:04:22 PM  
Hey bud! Where'd you go? I thought you were going come right back to the penny slots!

Yeah, sorry, I decided to try my hand at blackjack.

Oh really? How'd you do?

I won $2,000 bucks!

Really!? Great! Hotel room is on you I guess!

Well, no... I won that on the first hand.. can I borrow a few hundred til I can get to an ATM?
 
2011-02-25 10:21:00 PM  

vegasj: Did anyone mention Freddie Mac is asking for more too?


500 million. Couch-change.
 
2011-02-26 09:04:27 AM  

Leggat: LiquidSky Notice the market reaction to last night's release, which was apparently bad news? (not talking about the common.)


Nope ... I'm an Aussie, so I don't exactly keep up with daily variations in the US market.

(If you're wondering WTF I'm doing in a US housing-crisis thread, I started following them when I was thinking about buying a house here. Lots of bearish experts were suggesting we'd have an even more dramatic collapse, so I was interested in the details of what when on in the US situation. In the end, I decided that the bears were ignoring some major differences between the two countries, and I did buy a house. So far, so good. Prices have flattened a little - which was needed - but they haven't dropped.)

It's an interesting topic as an outsider. So much disinformation and fear. We don't have anything like Freddie and Fannie in Oz - our banks get finance from capital markets. The estimated flow-through to customers of that kind of government-backed lender is only around 20 basis points - it's not like your mortgage would double. Fixed-rate mortgages would probably become rare, but really, that's not a bad thing for the economy. Monetary policy in Australia is extremely effective, because when our Reserve Bank changes interest rates, practically everyone with a mortgage has their repayments changed the next month. This gives them a much sharper tool to control inflation/deflation ... technically, we haven't had a recession in 18yrs.
 
2011-02-26 06:41:40 PM  

LiquidSky: Nope ... I'm an Aussie, so I don't exactly keep up with daily variations in the US market.

(If you're wondering WTF I'm doing in a US housing-crisis thread, I started following them when I was thinking about buying a house here. Lots of bearish experts were suggesting we'd have an even more dramatic collapse, ...


Look up John Bronte, at http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/ (clickety-poppity) He's got a lot to say on Fannie&Freddie; believe it or not his proposal is the closest to what the Treasury&Co is doing re raising guarantee fees, etc.

He's also got a lot to say about the Aussie housing market, naturally. Worth a read, though you might find him a bit bearish, and he is near spot-on with his 11 part serious on F&F. Aside from that, it might be worth it buying housing in the US while you still can.

/I, for one, welcome our new aussie&canadian landlords?
 
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