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(ProJo.com)   Facing a budget short fall, Rhode Island community takes the only appropriate measure. It fires all 1,926 teachers   (newsblog.projo.com) divider line 369
    More: Asinine, Rhode Island, Blast!, teachers  
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16569 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2011 at 5:00 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-22 10:07:46 PM
Brillyunt! Just think uv the savings!
 
2011-02-22 10:16:23 PM
i thot thee economy wuz beter
 
2011-02-22 10:22:56 PM
And then what? Have the students run the schools? I don't get it.
 
2011-02-22 10:27:15 PM

violentsalvation: And then what? Have the students run the schools? I don't get it.


Nobody really gets it. It was announced tonight. From what I gather they've been trying to lay-off teachers that were under performing but the union (right or wrong) stepped in.

I hear from this point ALL 2,000 TEACHERS have to reapply for their jobs and go through a series of interviews and, no joke, answer a series of questions in essay form.
 
2011-02-22 10:34:15 PM

TeddyBallGame: violentsalvation: And then what? Have the students run the schools? I don't get it.

Nobody really gets it. It was announced tonight. From what I gather they've been trying to lay-off teachers that were under performing but the union (right or wrong) stepped in.

I hear from this point ALL 2,000 TEACHERS have to reapply for their jobs and go through a series of interviews and, no joke, answer a series of questions in essay form.


It's simple:

They'll be paid entry level wages and lose any/all accumulated leave and seniority/tenure. Sure, you should be able to get rid of bad teachers, but this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
2011-02-22 10:38:53 PM

TeddyBallGame: I hear from this point ALL 2,000 TEACHERS have to reapply for their jobs and go through a series of interviews and, no joke, answer a series of questions in essay form.


And I'm sure all the best teachers will dutifully reapply, go through the three-ring circus, and accept their old job back at reduced salary and benefits.

There is absolutely no way that randomly firing every single teacher could backfire and leave you with the rejects that can't find work elsewhere.
 
2011-02-22 10:53:10 PM
This is the most powerful and potent union in the state. I'm guessing that ultimately nothing will come of this. The union will get lawyers to stop the mass firing, the committee that thought this was a good idea will cave and it'll be business as usual in two weeks.

That's not a bad thing it's just, again, another completely retarded move by a retarded state. I'm amazed we haven't been absorbed by Mass or CT by now.
 
2011-02-22 11:01:04 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: TeddyBallGame: I hear from this point ALL 2,000 TEACHERS have to reapply for their jobs and go through a series of interviews and, no joke, answer a series of questions in essay form.

And I'm sure all the best teachers will dutifully reapply, go through the three-ring circus, and accept their old job back at reduced salary and benefits.

There is absolutely no way that randomly firing every single teacher could backfire and leave you with the rejects that can't find work elsewhere.


Firing them all is the anthesis of random.

Where else are the good teachers gonna find work? A bunch of them are probably in houses worth less than what they owe on them. Even if they could move, what state is short of teachers? Where is this land of pedantic bounty?
 
2011-02-22 11:04:41 PM
The teachers should exercise their Second Amendment rights.
 
2011-02-22 11:13:52 PM
Since I live in Arizona, and we don't have much in the form of unions, workers rights, collective bargaining, etc. I am pretty naive on the whole subject.

Would it be fair to say some unions make it too hard to fire someone and lead to bullsh*t like this?
 
2011-02-22 11:19:41 PM
After meeting many products of Rhode Island public schools, I can vouch that the state should fire them all AND demand the salaries back for services not rendered.
 
2011-02-22 11:19:49 PM

violentsalvation: Since I live in Arizona, and we don't have much in the form of unions, workers rights, collective bargaining, etc. I am pretty naive on the whole subject.

Would it be fair to say some unions make it too hard to fire someone and lead to bullsh*t like this?


No.
 
2011-02-22 11:25:13 PM

violentsalvation: Since I live in Arizona, and we don't have much in the form of unions, workers rights, collective bargaining, etc. I am pretty naive on the whole subject.

Would it be fair to say some unions make it too hard to fire someone and lead to bullsh*t like this?


The NEA/AEA is the only thing that keeps teachers in many of the districts in this state. You have districts like Paradise Valley, where you don't get elected to the board without union approval, and then you have districts like Creighton and Phoenix Elementary where the teachers HAVE to be in the union just to have ANY kind of say-so in the lunatic bad decision-making that takes place at the administrative level.

But this being a right-to fire state, you're screwed if they decide to fire you.

/ex Arizona teacher
//walked out on my contract
 
2011-02-22 11:25:57 PM

propasaurus: violentsalvation: Since I live in Arizona, and we don't have much in the form of unions, workers rights, collective bargaining, etc. I am pretty naive on the whole subject.

Would it be fair to say some unions make it too hard to fire someone and lead to bullsh*t like this?

No.


Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.
 
2011-02-22 11:31:50 PM
Gotta spend money to make money.
 
2011-02-22 11:55:28 PM
This is just a gimmick. They issue "pink slips" to a large number of teacher (or in this case all of them) to create a backlash that the politicians then try to spin into justifying new taxes "because we're laying off teachers". None, or hardly any of the teachers actually get laid off its just a procedural stunt.
 
2011-02-22 11:58:39 PM
Time to add Rhode Island to the list.
 
2011-02-22 11:59:43 PM
Listening to the talk radio today, I heard the morons talking about urban disorders and civil unrest if 'entitlement programs' are cut, but how the country will collapse if it keeps running up debt. I wanted to call and ask if they would agree to raise taxes to share the sacrifice to avoid civil war...but I already knew the answer and didn't bother.
 
2011-02-23 12:03:54 AM
begun the class wars have.
 
2011-02-23 12:07:34 AM
We need to give all levels of government the ability to print money like the Feds do. Problem solved. Free Bubble-Up and Rainbow Stew for all.
 
2011-02-23 12:36:38 AM
i693.photobucket.com
 
2011-02-23 12:43:20 AM

violentsalvation: Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.


I heard sometimes people use guns to do bad things. We should eliminate the 2nd amendment.

/carries as much weight as your anecdote
 
2011-02-23 12:44:49 AM

log_jammin: begun the class wars have.


Did they fire all the Police? Firemen? Will they all have to reapply and go through testing?

Why is it ONLY teachers that are being targeted?

/rhetorical question
 
2011-02-23 02:00:36 AM

ShawnDoc: This is just a gimmick. They issue "pink slips" to a large number of teacher (or in this case all of them) to create a backlash that the politicians then try to spin into justifying new taxes "because we're laying off teachers". None, or hardly any of the teachers actually get laid off its just a procedural stunt.


It's probably both a gimmick and a necessary step. Here in California, union contracts require that a school district put teachers and other employees on notice that they may be laid off long before they actually are. Meanwhile, the officials keep working on the problem, find a way to get around it, and then rescind the notices.
 
2011-02-23 03:50:44 AM

violentsalvation: propasaurus: violentsalvation: Since I live in Arizona, and we don't have much in the form of unions, workers rights, collective bargaining, etc. I am pretty naive on the whole subject.

Would it be fair to say some unions make it too hard to fire someone and lead to bullsh*t like this?

No.

Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.


Why would you ask a question if you already have an answer in your head? It's almost as if you're trying to lead people down a pre-determined path in order to make a point.
 
2011-02-23 04:24:11 AM

DarthBrooks: After meeting many products of Rhode Island public schools, I can vouch that the state should fire them all AND demand the salaries back for services not rendered.


Hey, f*ck you. I can count to potatoe!

I just love that my town approved a $30,000,000 bond for a school that has no architect, design, or any agreement. I think I've watched public access 5-10 times in my life. Usually to mock that weird f*cking guy with the Star Trek show in his basement. Thgat wasn't just a Family Guy episode, that guy actually existed! Where was I? Oh, yeah. I was flipping through the channels and I see the school board meeting about the school. High comedy ensued. Link (new window)

I love this messed up state.
 
2011-02-23 04:35:58 AM

violentsalvation: Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.



My dad tells me stories about unicorns that fart rainbows.
 
2011-02-23 04:50:08 AM

violentsalvation: Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.


your dad is a liar.
 
2011-02-23 04:57:39 AM
This doesn't really surprise me, though I was thinking it was going to be Pawtucket...
 
2011-02-23 05:11:21 AM
Y'know, if we would just decide to stop letting the cabal at the top skim away billions (trillions?) annually, this wouldn't be a problem. Unions take peanuts, relatively speaking.
 
2011-02-23 05:15:36 AM
My former company (blue cross blue shield) did same BS to me. They couldn't fire me, so they laid off all 6 people in my unit. One retired, four were rehired and I was left high & dry while on ADA protected medical leave for a ruptured Achilles. Oh and the best part? My "severance package" was this: If you quit, we'll pay you your salary for 90 days. I argued I'd lose my health insurance & unemployment doing that and asked for the customary 2 months severence given to other laid off employees (per HR). I was told to piss off.

I'm in process of finding a lawyer, but so far no one's willing to take on state's largest health insurer. The Dept of Labor's like, "ADA violation? Yup, happens all the time. Go away."
 
2011-02-23 05:16:54 AM

Petit_Merdeux: violentsalvation: Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.


My dad tells me stories about unicorns that fart rainbows.


Oh, yeah? Well my dad farts rainbows!

/And eats force field dogs!
 
2011-02-23 05:19:52 AM

log_jammin: violentsalvation: Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.

your dad is a liar.


I don't think he's even his real dad.
 
2011-02-23 05:20:01 AM

arkansas: We need to give all levels of government the ability to print money like the Feds do. Problem solved. Free Bubble-Up and Rainbow Stew for all.


Oh, and the death penalty for anyone raising prices. Gotta prevent inflation.

And the army takes over the all banks and burns / erases all the loan records for everybody. And prints lots of checks. Free money for everyone!

While the bankers weep for their lost money and are forced to live out of a shopping cart in the park for the rest of their lives.
 
2011-02-23 05:20:10 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: There is absolutely no way that randomly firing every single teacher could backfire and leave you with the rejects that can't find work elsewhere.


THIS to the tenth power.

I also get the impression from teachers I know that typically the principal and school board don't have the teachers back. In that if it were up to them, when a parent complained about a teacher being too hard on their precious snowflake, they'd happily fire the teacher to make the problem go away. The only thing that prevents it is the union, because they can be a bigger pain in the butt than the parent.

\Friend had a Jr High student punch her in the hoo-haw. She decked him without thinking. School district tried to fire her, but the union put a stop to it.
 
2011-02-23 05:25:08 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-02-23 05:26:47 AM

violentsalvation: propasaurus: violentsalvation: Since I live in Arizona, and we don't have much in the form of unions, workers rights, collective bargaining, etc. I am pretty naive on the whole subject.

Would it be fair to say some unions make it too hard to fire someone and lead to bullsh*t like this?

No.

Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.


Your dad enjoys sex with farm animals.
 
2011-02-23 05:29:10 AM

log_jammin: begun the class wars have.


We're almost up to China's 'eat the teachers' solution now.
 
2011-02-23 05:32:45 AM
I know there are financial problems with schools. Too many administrators. Too many varying standards between districts in the same state. However, I can't help but think that there are other places money can be taken from BEFORE one resorts to firing all the teachers.

Personally, I'd like to nationalize all the public schools - the same classes per grade, the same lesson plans, the same schedule, the same textbooks, every day for all schools in the country. Keep it simple. Then there are no excuses for falling behind, no penalties to students who have to frequently relocate, and the same funding is spent per student.
 
2011-02-23 05:34:19 AM
The why is easy: 2 easy targets for fringe right wingers to aim at and hit. Unions because they they usually support Democrats, and teachers because the concept of an educated populace directly contravenes right wing election strategy. Illiterate people rely on oral authority, and lack the ability(or indeed, don't even understand the concept) of fact checking their talking heads.

But you know, to the 400 people that own 90% of America, it doesn't matter if their labor pool can read, or define irony, as long as they queue up for the meat grinder. Meanwhile the rest of us pay taxes out the ass and all we get out of it are crumbling schools, crumbling roads, crumbling bridges and a lingering sense of "wtf" as some fat republitard takes that cash and starts some new pointless ideological unwinnable war.
 
2011-02-23 05:35:04 AM
Fire 'em all/rehire 'em all-at minimum wage. Sounds good to me.

/up next, Wisconsin followed by Ohio
//unions suck!
 
2011-02-23 05:35:17 AM

TeddyBallGame: I'm amazed we haven't been absorbed by Mass or CT by now.


They don't want you.

/There's an old joke about the Michigan/Ohio border: 'If we'd taken the land we were entitled to, we'd be stuck with both Detroit *and* Toledo.'
 
2011-02-23 05:35:27 AM
If only they had tried to compromise in some way, you know, the union giving up some of it's bloated excess in return for no massive lay offs. If that were the case many would have prefered that, but then again some would be silly enough to think that all those teachers would have prefered to be fired rather than compromise and so I guess they got their wish.
 
2011-02-23 05:35:38 AM

gibbon1: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: There is absolutely no way that randomly firing every single teacher could backfire and leave you with the rejects that can't find work elsewhere.

THIS to the tenth power.

I also get the impression from teachers I know that typically the principal and school board don't have the teachers back. In that if it were up to them, when a parent complained about a teacher being too hard on their precious snowflake, they'd happily fire the teacher to make the problem go away. The only thing that prevents it is the union, because they can be a bigger pain in the butt than the parent.

\Friend had a Jr High student punch her in the hoo-haw. She decked him without thinking. School district tried to fire her, but the union put a stop to it.


i punched this girl in the hoo-haw once, she slapped me

/was the most action i had seen in a while
 
2011-02-23 05:39:24 AM

Day_Old_Dutchie: arkansas: We need to give all levels of government the ability to print money like the Feds do. Problem solved. Free Bubble-Up and Rainbow Stew for all.

Oh, and the death penalty for anyone raising prices. Gotta prevent inflation.

And the army takes over the all banks and burns / erases all the loan records for everybody. And prints lots of checks. Free money for everyone!

While the bankers weep for their lost money and are forced to live out of a shopping cart in the park for the rest of their lives.


i112.photobucket.com
 
2011-02-23 05:44:13 AM

violentsalvation:
Really? My dad tells me his stories about trying to fire incompetent state workers in a unionized, collective bargaining state. He told me it took him over a year to fire a CPS worker who was hooked on all kinds of drugs, and almost never showed up to work.


This is such a BS excuse for being anit-union. How many people have been in jobs, non-union, where you had that one employee who got away with murder.


gibbon1:
\Friend had a Jr High student punch her in the hoo-haw. She decked him without thinking. School district tried to fire her, but the union put a stop to it.


This is why we need unions for this kind of abuse people have to endure just to do their job.
 
2011-02-23 05:45:45 AM
If you fire everyone and make them reapply, you will in fact decrease your work-force.

The problem is that there's no way to guarantee that you'll decrease it without degrading its quality (competent teachers are pretty decently in demand, and could easily take the opportunity to move, while shiat ones... not so much) and no guarantee that you won't decrease it by more than your target cuts.

Honestly, if you're cutting budgets, usually the teachers are the wrong end to start from. Even a big school district needs only two administrative employees per school (a Principal, a secretary) and an additional two administrative personnel for the district (a superintendent, possibly a secretary for that position as well). But the administrative branches of many school districts come close to being just as numerous as the employees that perform the actual services (teachers, librarians, janitors, cafeteria types).

Were I trimming a primary/secondary budget, I'd start by eliminating administrative positions, then I'd start eliminating elective activities and services that cost the schools money. Only then would I move on to academic programs and teachers. They wouldn't be immune to downsizing, but they'd be far from the first against the wall.
 
2011-02-23 05:52:36 AM

HotSalsaZoot: Fire 'em all/rehire 'em all-at minimum wage. Sounds good to me.

/up next, Wisconsin followed by Ohio
//unions suck!


What makes you think they would take the job back at minimum wage? With no union bargained benefits, no health care, no nothing? Even people who love teaching aren't going to do it for minimum wage. Are you going to hire illegal mexicans to be school teachers? Or are you going to h1b visa in some Indians? I mean, those are the 2 default responses most republicans have for any job that isn't "oil executive" right?

Really, I know you guys are just ragingly hard over the idea of spewing into the eye of the teachers unions, but they aren't the problem here, when it comes to education. Really.
 
2011-02-23 05:55:36 AM
neongoats:
What makes you think they would take the job back at minimum wage? With no union bargained benefits, no health care, no nothing? Even people who love teaching aren't going to do it for minimum wage. Are you going to hire illegal mexicans to be school teachers? Or are you going to h1b visa in some Indians? I mean, those are the 2 default responses most republicans have for any job that isn't "oil executive" right?

Really, I know you guys are just ragingly hard over the idea of spewing into the eye of the teachers unions, but they aren't the problem here, when it comes to education. Really.


I don't care if they take the jobs at minimum wage, don't take the jobs, or simply starve to death. It's no sweat off my nuts. And sorry, all unions suck - yes, they are part of the problem.
 
2011-02-23 05:58:51 AM

gadian: I know there are financial problems with schools. Too many administrators. Too many varying standards between districts in the same state. However, I can't help but think that there are other places money can be taken from BEFORE one resorts to firing all the teachers.

Personally, I'd like to nationalize all the public schools - the same classes per grade, the same lesson plans, the same schedule, the same textbooks, every day for all schools in the country. Keep it simple. Then there are no excuses for falling behind, no penalties to students who have to frequently relocate, and the same funding is spent per student.


Education is not one size fits all. I live with a teacher and she has at least 3 levels for each subject.

If she were to go to your plan, some kids (like the refugees from Nepal) would be lost and fall behind and some kids would fall asleep.

Indeed we would be shooting for mediocrity. Which may actually be the plan, I guess I don't know.
 
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