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(Yahoo)   NFL ups the offer to displaced fans by one million dollars. One Million Dollars   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 81
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4746 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Feb 2011 at 2:43 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-16 12:33:29 PM  
The newest proposal offers fans "greater of $5,000 or your actual substantiated expenses in defined categories for attending Super Bowl XLV." It's the most lucrative offer yet from the league and comes six days after some fans filed a lawsuit seeking up to $5 million in damages for the fiasco at Cowboys Stadium.


if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one.
 
2011-02-16 02:48:15 PM  
Either the mods are on crack, or Drew's just farking with us. This is like the fifth or sixth repeat I've seen in the past 3 days.
 
182
2011-02-16 02:51:47 PM  
litigation won't get them nothing extra except a large attorney fee....take the money and run.
 
2011-02-16 02:54:27 PM  

rickythepenguin: if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one


I'm very surprised that on the back of the ticket- with all the other myriad of fine print- it doesn't have some provision to take care of this.

I know baseball tickets explain all the risks of getting hit by foul balls, explain the right of the venue to kick you out if you're being an asshole, etc.

And I know they all have rain-out procedures detailed.

Basically "We cannot guarantee you a seat for this game, and if there is a problem we will refund face value or give you a ticket to another game if we can."
 
2011-02-16 02:54:34 PM  
I think we've reached the horse-shiat phase of these "negotiations".

rickythepenguin: if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one.


the NFL has no good reason to offer anything more generous than they already have. A $5 million lawsuit will never actually succeed.
 
2011-02-16 02:57:24 PM  
Press criminal fraud charges for knowingly selling tickets for an event which did not exist in reality.
 
2011-02-16 03:05:25 PM  

rickythepenguin: if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one.


Nah. The NFL is just paying the fans for PR purposes, basically "go away and shut up" money. Plus it's cheaper than legal fees.

If this actually went to court, the fans would win, but only for the face value of the tickets. They're getting offered way more than that now.
 
2011-02-16 03:07:44 PM  

Supes: rickythepenguin: if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one.

Nah. The NFL is just paying the fans for PR purposes, basically "go away and shut up" money. Plus it's cheaper than legal fees.

If this actually went to court, the fans would win, but only for the face value of the tickets. They're getting offered way more than that now.


Don't you think they would get travel costs and accommodations as well?
 
2011-02-16 03:09:46 PM  

jst3p: Supes: rickythepenguin: if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one.

Nah. The NFL is just paying the fans for PR purposes, basically "go away and shut up" money. Plus it's cheaper than legal fees.

If this actually went to court, the fans would win, but only for the face value of the tickets. They're getting offered way more than that now.

Don't you think they would get travel costs and accommodations as well?


The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas.
 
2011-02-16 03:13:28 PM  

Supes: rickythepenguin: if thsoe fans have any sense whatsoever, they'll just say no, file their lawsuits, then settle out of court. they have the NFL's balls in a vise on this one.

Nah. The NFL is just paying the fans for PR purposes, basically "go away and shut up" money. Plus it's cheaper than legal fees.

If this actually went to court, the fans would win, but only for the face value of the tickets. They're getting offered way more than that now.


I'm thinking fraud by a monopoly is cause for a RICO suit. This leads to racketeering charges which could lead to prison time for higher-ups.
 
2011-02-16 03:14:04 PM  

mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas


No. A ticket is not a guarantee to see that specific event. Full events get cancelled all the time. Happens 20+ times in baseball alone. Performers cancel concerts because they get sick or are Axl Rose.

You're entitled to a refund for face value or a ticket to a make-up game or some other game of their choosing.

I've travelled to Chicago (to see my family mostly) and always get tickets to a White Sox game because I'm a fan. If it rains out, I'm not going to make it back fo whatever make-up they give me. I'm SOL and I promise a court wouldn't take my case.

Maybe this is slightly different than rain, but the point still stands. And like I mentioned before, I'd hope NFL lawyers put language to this effect on the ticket.
 
2011-02-16 03:18:05 PM  

downstairs: mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas

No. A ticket is not a guarantee to see that specific event. Full events get cancelled all the time. Happens 20+ times in baseball alone. Performers cancel concerts because they get sick or are Axl Rose.

You're entitled to a refund for face value or a ticket to a make-up game or some other game of their choosing.

I've travelled to Chicago (to see my family mostly) and always get tickets to a White Sox game because I'm a fan. If it rains out, I'm not going to make it back fo whatever make-up they give me. I'm SOL and I promise a court wouldn't take my case.

Maybe this is slightly different than rain, but the point still stands. And like I mentioned before, I'd hope NFL lawyers put language to this effect on the ticket.


The fundamental difference is the NFL knowingly sold tickets to seats that did not exist. If an airline overbooks, they don't get to bump you without compensation and your agreement.
 
2011-02-16 03:28:11 PM  
The fundamental difference is the NFL knowingly sold tickets to seats that did not exist. If an airline overbooks, they don't get to bump you without compensation and your agreement.

No they didn't. They sold tickets to seats that were to be temporarily installed. A freak snow storm caused delays on getting the seats installed. There offer of a future SuperBowl of the fans choosing with expenses paid is more than enough compensation.
 
2011-02-16 03:29:02 PM  
Wait a minute...I just realized the NFL is the one negotiating the compensation. Isn't this more the fault of Jerry's kids? Why should the league cough up for Mr. Jones' unsubstantiated promises?
 
2011-02-16 03:30:13 PM  

netweavr: downstairs: mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas

No. A ticket is not a guarantee to see that specific event. Full events get cancelled all the time. Happens 20+ times in baseball alone. Performers cancel concerts because they get sick or are Axl Rose.

You're entitled to a refund for face value or a ticket to a make-up game or some other game of their choosing.

I've travelled to Chicago (to see my family mostly) and always get tickets to a White Sox game because I'm a fan. If it rains out, I'm not going to make it back fo whatever make-up they give me. I'm SOL and I promise a court wouldn't take my case.

Maybe this is slightly different than rain, but the point still stands. And like I mentioned before, I'd hope NFL lawyers put language to this effect on the ticket.

The fundamental difference is the NFL knowingly sold tickets to seats that did not exist. If an airline overbooks, they don't get to bump you without compensation and your agreement.


This. These folks are entitled to more than just the face value of the ticket. With that being said, I think what they're offering now would be more than fair.
 
2011-02-16 03:30:47 PM  

downstairs: mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas

No. A ticket is not a guarantee to see that specific event. Full events get cancelled all the time. Happens 20+ times in baseball alone. Performers cancel concerts because they get sick or are Axl Rose.

You're entitled to a refund for face value or a ticket to a make-up game or some other game of their choosing.

I've travelled to Chicago (to see my family mostly) and always get tickets to a White Sox game because I'm a fan. If it rains out, I'm not going to make it back fo whatever make-up they give me. I'm SOL and I promise a court wouldn't take my case.

Maybe this is slightly different than rain, but the point still stands. And like I mentioned before, I'd hope NFL lawyers put language to this effect on the ticket.


Congrats on missing the point. When was the last time the Super Bowl was either canceled or delayed? It was indoors and the only issue was ice. Hell they played in Detroit in '82 and there was basically a blizzard beforehand.

/also modmins, this is a repeat
 
2011-02-16 03:31:34 PM  

Shoop008: The fundamental difference is the NFL knowingly sold tickets to seats that did not exist. If an airline overbooks, they don't get to bump you without compensation and your agreement.

No they didn't. They sold tickets to seats that were to be temporarily installed. A freak snow storm caused delays on getting the seats installed. There offer of a future SuperBowl of the fans choosing with expenses paid is more than enough compensation.


So you are saying the seats were not installed and they sold tickets to non-installed seats? Ergo, they sold tickets to seats that didn't exist.
 
2011-02-16 03:31:45 PM  

DVDave: Wait a minute...I just realized the NFL is the one negotiating the compensation. Isn't this more the fault of Jerry's kids? Why should the league cough up for Mr. Jones' unsubstantiated promises?


The NFL puts on the Superbowl, not the owner of the team the plays in the stadium chosen.
 
2011-02-16 03:32:03 PM  

mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas.


What they "deserve" isn't the issue.

The seats were deemed unsafe hours before kickoff. This is tantamount to cancellation of an event hours before for whatever reason.

The fault or reason is irrelevant. These tickets were sold thinking there would be seats, and for various reasons these seats were not available. The result is a refund of face value.

The people used their plane tickets, stayed in their hotel rooms. Obviously in a fair world, they would get those reimbursed here as well. But that's not the law. What you want here are incidental damages, but this is not the sort of situation where they are given (they would need to have been deprived use of those other expenses).

This is a move by the NFL to (a) save face, and (b) avoid paying lawyer fees. Nothing more.
 
2011-02-16 03:34:15 PM  
downstairs: A ticket is not a guarantee to see that specific event.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on here.
 
2011-02-16 03:34:46 PM  
Filing a lawsuit by the fans against the NFL is the worst most money grubbing thing to do, it will not come out in their favor.
 
2011-02-16 03:35:10 PM  

Supes: mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas.

What they "deserve" isn't the issue.

The seats were deemed unsafe hours before kickoff. This is tantamount to cancellation of an event hours before for whatever reason.

The fault or reason is irrelevant. These tickets were sold thinking there would be seats, and for various reasons these seats were not available. The result is a refund of face value.

The people used their plane tickets, stayed in their hotel rooms. Obviously in a fair world, they would get those reimbursed here as well. But that's not the law. What you want here are incidental damages, but this is not the sort of situation where they are given (they would need to have been deprived use of those other expenses).

This is a move by the NFL to (a) save face, and (b) avoid paying lawyer fees. Nothing more.


The seats were never even inspected. The NFL plain didn't finish them. They don't get a gold star for effort here, the tickets were for something that wasn't completed (iow didn't exist.)
 
2011-02-16 03:39:35 PM  
All that being said, this seems like a fair deal. Provided "actual substantiated expenses in defined categories" isn't lawyer-talk for "lol, you're getting screwed."
 
2011-02-16 03:41:20 PM  
I think the NFL is being pretty generous here, but they did screw up and these fans have a right to be upset and get more than just 'face value of the ticket' refunded.
 
2011-02-16 03:41:53 PM  

YouWinAgainGravity: downstairs: A ticket is not a guarantee to see that specific event.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on here.


Really? Ever read the fine print on a sports event or concert ticket?
 
2011-02-16 03:42:30 PM  

netweavr: The seats were never even inspected. The NFL plain didn't finish them. They don't get a gold star for effort here, the tickets were for something that wasn't completed (iow didn't exist.)


The huge question then is "at what point did the NFL know for sure these seats would not be completed/properly installed in time"?

This picture of the seats (and articles I read) led me to believe they were trying to complete the seats right up until a couple hours before gametime:
assets.nydailynews.com

If in fact the seats were known to be inadequate several days before (one day before wouldn't be enough I think, since people would already be in Arlington), then the NFL would probably be liable for additional damages resulting from not telling people earlier and allowing them to rearrange their plans.

This is important information none of us have, as far as I know...
 
2011-02-16 03:45:06 PM  
downstairs: Really? Ever read the fine print on a sports event or concert ticket?

Yes, and it refers to things like 'the band for the concert didn't show up' or 'snow caved in our football stadium'. Not 'we just decided to knowingly oversell' or 'we knowingly sold tickets for seats that hadn't passed inspection'. That borders on things like fraud.
 
2011-02-16 03:46:02 PM  

netweavr: The fundamental difference is the NFL knowingly sold tickets to seats that did not exist. If an airline overbooks, they don't get to bump you without compensation and your agreement


That's my point. They (should) list the specific compensation on the ticket. I never said they diserve no compensation. They diserve standard compensation- face value.

They don't diserve their hotel and travel to be compensated. That's their thing.
 
2011-02-16 03:48:33 PM  

YouWinAgainGravity: Yes, and it refers to things like 'the band for the concert didn't show up' or 'snow caved in our football stadium'. Not 'we just decided to knowingly oversell' or 'we knowingly sold tickets for seats that hadn't passed inspection'. That borders on things like fraud


Ummmm... airlines knowingly oversell and its legal. Maybe you disagree with the legality (I kinda do)... but it is currently legal. And not fraud.

And they didn't technically "oversell". The whole point was to have these seats. Unfortunately they didn't pass inspection. shiat happens. As long as they noted this in the fine print of the ticket (and I'd think any two-bit lawyer would know to do this), you're SOL.

Actually you're not SOL. You get face value back.
 
2011-02-16 03:50:10 PM  

downstairs: YouWinAgainGravity: Yes, and it refers to things like 'the band for the concert didn't show up' or 'snow caved in our football stadium'. Not 'we just decided to knowingly oversell' or 'we knowingly sold tickets for seats that hadn't passed inspection'. That borders on things like fraud

Ummmm... airlines knowingly oversell and its legal. Maybe you disagree with the legality (I kinda do)... but it is currently legal. And not fraud.

And they didn't technically "oversell". The whole point was to have these seats. Unfortunately they didn't pass inspection. shiat happens. As long as they noted this in the fine print of the ticket (and I'd think any two-bit lawyer would know to do this), you're SOL.

Actually you're not SOL. You get face value back.


They didn't get inspected. The NFL clearly knew they wouldn't be ready since they never even bothered to schedule an inspection.
 
2011-02-16 03:50:52 PM  

Supes: If in fact the seats were known to be inadequate several days before (one day before wouldn't be enough I think, since people would already be in Arlington), then the NFL would probably be liable for additional damages resulting from not telling people earlier and allowing them to rearrange their plans


Is this true? From what I've heard they were trying- up until hours before the game- to get them in condition to be used. And failed. But they didn't "know" they would not be able to be used until then. And until then why would they tell people?

Heck- how COULD they even tell people. If I buy a ticket to a baseball game on StubHub, the team doesn't know my name, number, and address.
 
2011-02-16 03:54:31 PM  
Supes:

The fault or reason is irrelevant. These tickets were sold thinking there would be seats, and for various reasons these seats were not available. The result is a refund of face value.



Face value of the tickets was $800 ~ $1200.

Actual average price paid per ticket was over $4000.

Almost no tickets to the superbowl are sold at face value.

Plus, there should be compensation for travel and lodging expenses, because if the patrons had known that they would not have had a seat, they would not have booked travel. In almost all cases, the travel was booked expressly for the purposes of going to an event that the NFL had indicated to the patrons that they would attend, and then were denied.

Plus, there should be compensation of a punitive nature. This is *not* a baseball game, no matter how much people say it is. There are almost FIVE THOUSAND MLB baseball games played per year. There is only one superbowl.

It is literally the biggest event in American sports, and every year it only gets bigger and more popular. It is the championship game. It's, for most attendees, a once in a lifetime experience.

How can you compensate someone with $800 for spending $4000 on a ticket and $3000 on hotel/food/plane ticket? And then, on top of that, how can you compensate them for the loss of the opportunity to see *their team* play for the championship, in the biggest event, on the biggest stage, of the entire sport? What, promise them you'll give them a ticket to another superbowl? That's not going to help Steelers fans when the Ravens go to the superbowl. It's not going to help the Packers fans when Bears go to the superbowl? Why would you think that seeing some other team is the same as seeing *your* team play?

No, these people deserve compensation for the loss of a once in a lifetime opportunity, plus the money that they paid to not see the game.
 
2011-02-16 03:55:38 PM  

netweavr: They didn't get inspected. The NFL clearly knew they wouldn't be ready since they never even bothered to schedule an inspection


Untrue. The fire and police inspectors were part of the process all the way until minutes before the game:

Link (new window)

The plan was always to have them ready, and the NFL didn't "know" they wouldn't be three days before.

Unfortunately they couldn't get the thing safe enough, but they tried.

Their only responsibility was to notify the ticket holders once they knew it wasn't going to happen. Again, that was minutes before the game. And then refund face value.

Now, PR wise they *should* and did do more than that. Maybe should have done a lot more. But legally, no.
 
2011-02-16 03:57:59 PM  

xiaodown: How can you compensate someone with $800 for spending $4000 on a ticket and $3000 on hotel/food/plane ticket?


That's not how life works. All Super Bowl tickets *are* sold at face value. If you choose to overspend on one, fine. But the NFL pockets the $800 face value, and that's all they owe you.

(Again- PR wise I'd have absolutely done more. But technically they have no obligation to do so).
 
2011-02-16 03:58:49 PM  

downstairs: netweavr: They didn't get inspected. The NFL clearly knew they wouldn't be ready since they never even bothered to schedule an inspection

Untrue. The fire and police inspectors were part of the process all the way until minutes before the game:

Link (new window)

The plan was always to have them ready, and the NFL didn't "know" they wouldn't be three days before.

Unfortunately they couldn't get the thing safe enough, but they tried.

Their only responsibility was to notify the ticket holders once they knew it wasn't going to happen. Again, that was minutes before the game. And then refund face value.

Now, PR wise they *should* and did do more than that. Maybe should have done a lot more. But legally, no.


Hmm, that's different from what I read. I read something about police saying the seats weren't inspected at all.
 
2011-02-16 04:00:16 PM  
How many of these fans are actually suing?

How many are actually Packer Fans anyway? Because if they're not a Packer fan, they really need to STFU about this and take the damn money. I REALLY don't want to hear about their feelings. They can go to another damn superbowl.
 
2011-02-16 04:01:03 PM  
Here's the thing about the offer and the negotiation.

If they go to court, there is no way they get LESS than this. They have nothing to lose by pursuing it.

On top of that, the failure wasn't an act of god, snowstorm, etc, but rather the failure of the event to execute.

Not saying these folks should get a windfall, but there is only upside for them at this point.
 
2011-02-16 04:04:47 PM  
www.robertjschwalb.com
 
2011-02-16 04:08:01 PM  

mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas.


Hmph.
 
2011-02-16 04:14:49 PM  

The Dynamite Monkey: Here's the thing about the offer and the negotiation.

If they go to court, there is no way they get LESS than this. They have nothing to lose by pursuing it.

On top of that, the failure wasn't an act of god, snowstorm, etc, but rather the failure of the event to execute.

Not saying these folks should get a windfall, but there is only upside for them at this point.


What the settlement would be and what the fans get are not the same thing. Once the lawyers get their share, the fans could end up with less, especially if the NFL's lawyers run right over the lawyer a hick from Wisconsin could afford.
 
2011-02-16 04:18:25 PM  

Resolute: The Dynamite Monkey: Here's the thing about the offer and the negotiation.

If they go to court, there is no way they get LESS than this. They have nothing to lose by pursuing it.

On top of that, the failure wasn't an act of god, snowstorm, etc, but rather the failure of the event to execute.

Not saying these folks should get a windfall, but there is only upside for them at this point.

What the settlement would be and what the fans get are not the same thing. Once the lawyers get their share, the fans could end up with less, especially if the NFL's lawyers run right over the lawyer a hick from Wisconsin could afford.


Also, a judge/jury could decide that, legally, all they deserve is face value of the ticket. Then , they're totally SOL.
 
2011-02-16 04:20:23 PM  

xiaodown: No, these people deserve compensation for the loss of a once in a lifetime opportunity, plus the money that they paid to not see the game.


Deserve ≠ legally entitled to
 
2011-02-16 04:23:02 PM  

Di Atribe: mjoven1975: The fans deserve a full refund on the cost of their trip (tickets, hotel, airfare, car, food, etc.) plus punitive damages for unnecessarily having to spend the weekend in Texas.

Hmph.


Well, it wasn't at your place. That might mean anguish.
 
2011-02-16 04:38:01 PM  

downstairs: xiaodown: How can you compensate someone with $800 for spending $4000 on a ticket and $3000 on hotel/food/plane ticket?

That's not how life works. All Super Bowl tickets *are* sold at face value. If you choose to overspend on one, fine. But the NFL pockets the $800 face value, and that's all they owe you.

(Again- PR wise I'd have absolutely done more. But technically they have no obligation to do so).


Know how we know what the average price for tickets was?

http://www.ticketexchangebyticketmaster.com/NFL/default.aspx

Yep. The NFL PROVIDES a place to sell tickets aftermarket. Then they take a cut of each sale. They artificially drive the price up.

So,

1.) Set "face value" of ticket at $800.
2.) Sell all of them to people who will re-sell.
3.) Provide forum to easily re-sell.
4.) Take a cut of each re-sell.
5.) Reimburse $800 in the event of problems.
6.) profit^2.
 
2011-02-16 04:38:23 PM  

Supes: xiaodown: No, these people deserve compensation for the loss of a once in a lifetime opportunity, plus the money that they paid to not see the game.

Deserve ≠ legally entitled to


Also, what someone "deserves" is extremely subjective.
 
2011-02-16 04:45:16 PM  

LucklessWonder: Well, it wasn't at your place. That might mean anguish.


I can't fit 100k in my house at one time. 20, tops.
 
2011-02-16 04:53:41 PM  
This just reminds me of those ass-shats who had their cruise 'ruined' when they had to eat spam for a few days. The NFL has tried to make amends, but these people think they are entitled to more.
 
2011-02-16 05:15:30 PM  

xiaodown: Know how we know what the average price for tickets was?

http://www.ticketexchangebyticketmaster.com/NFL/default.aspx

Yep. The NFL PROVIDES a place to sell tickets aftermarket. Then they take a cut of each sale. They artificially drive the price up.

So,

1.) Set "face value" of ticket at $800.
2.) Sell all of them to people who will re-sell.
3.) Provide forum to easily re-sell.
4.) Take a cut of each re-sell.
5.) Reimburse $800 in the event of problems.
6.) profit^2


Ok, if they bought it at the NFL re-selling market, fine. They're entitled to whatever the NFL made from the tickets.

My whole point is when it comes to stuff like this, you're entitled to be "made whole". You buy a ticket for $2000, the seats are broken, you get $2000 back.

You're not entitled to anything else. Your hotel worked just fine, so you're not out any consideration there. Your flight took off and you got to Dallas. You're not entitled to anything there.
 
2011-02-16 05:16:04 PM  

downstairs: Now, PR wise they *should* and did do more than that. Maybe should have done a lot more. But legally, no.


And this is why the NFL is a sh*t league.

They never do more than the absolute minimum to keep fans giving them money.

/I was going to say "happy," but they don't give a sh*t if fans are happy
//football season starts March 11. Watch the AFL, a league that actually WANTS fans and shows it with good prices, a fun atmosphere, giveaways, accessible players, and a more exciting game.
 
2011-02-16 05:16:56 PM  

Resolute: What the settlement would be and what the fans get are not the same thing. Once the lawyers get their share, the fans could end up with less, especially if the NFL's lawyers run right over the lawyer a hick from Wisconsin could afford


As well, they could lose their case entirely. Who knows what happens in court... especially once you start pushing and shoving a billion dollar entity.

The NFL could spend millions just to make these idiots spend millions on their case.
 
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