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(Austin Statesman)   Texas Governor calls for $10,000 bachelor's degrees   (statesman.com) divider line 218
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2986 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Feb 2011 at 2:26 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-14 06:43:10 PM
Hmmm, how about this. Most Universities get a huge chunk of change from grants given to the Departments by various agencies (like the NSF or DOD), the administration usually takes 40-50% off from the total award.

Say you received a half million dollar grant from NASA to do some computational analysis about CO2 levels in the Atlantic. Okay great, the University takes half that and you're now left with $250,000. You need a lab staff so you decide to hire a few of your graduate students to compile code and run simulations. 3 students at $20K a year, and this grant money is suppose to last 3 years. Now you have $70,000 left. After a year you decide that you need to upgrade your equipment, subtract $20,000. Your grad students are getting swamped with exams from their classes so you decide to hire a Post Doc at $40K a year for the remaining year. $10,000 left. Great job, you have enough money to attend the conference where you present your research.

Meanwhile the administration of the University uses their $250,000 to spend on practical things; funding clubs that no one joins, dances that no one attends, and various statues and art pieces that are overpriced.

Maybe I'm just jaded because I'm going to a University that is a commuter school and have seen this place spend $300,000 on a single dance where less than 2,000 people went to attend (out of 40,000) then clamor about doing nothing about "rising tuition costs."

I don't really know what the "college experience" is, but I can assure you it is over price and means jack shiat when you graduate. I don't need to attend school functions, join worthless fraternities, or live in the luxury dorms that costs more than a few classes to network with the various professors, peers, department heads, and recruiters.

I would like to see the school administration use their portion of their ill-owned grant money to fund need based grants or even a general fund to lower the tuition of all students.

Like most things in life, the blame usually is the school administration's fault.
 
2011-02-14 06:50:52 PM

captain_heroic44: hasty ambush: captain_heroic44: BMulligan: captain_heroic44: Alexander Hamilton, "Report on Manufactures," submitted to Congress on behalf of George Washington, 1792.

Fun fact: One of George Washington's greatest regrets was that he failed to establish a National University.

A less fun fact is that 230-odd years into the Republic, we still don't have one. : (

It could be that he realized he lacked the constitutional authority to do so.

Why do I suspect this proposition is as well supported as your claim that lawyers default on their student loans at a higher rate than other degree holders? Or your claim that "unemployed" lawyers fuel the filing of frivolous lawsuits?


"According to the National Law Journal 40% of law school graduates default on their student loans incurring collection fees of 29% when turned over to collection. Law school graduates default more than doctors, engineers, and business school graduates"

Link (new window)
 
2011-02-14 06:58:39 PM

asdfbeau: FTA: Critics of online education worry about quality and intangibles that could be lost without a face-to-face setting.

"A lot of the discussion about online classes takes the view that education is a package of facts," said John Curtis , director of research and public policy at the American Association of University Professors in Washington. "Education is a process of interaction, of thinking through concepts, debating ideas and having others react to your thoughts."

if only there were a place where you could think through concepts, and debate ideas with others, without having to pay thousands of dollars a year...


Interesting how people rush to defend the outdated brick and mortar college. No doubt they lament the passing of the video
rental store and village blacksmith.
 
2011-02-14 07:11:37 PM
A spokesman for the University of Texas System said, "We look forward to reviewing details of the governor's proposal."

The spokesman then chuckled and got back to polishing his once-a-semester press release about why it's necessary to hike tuition and fees again.
 
2011-02-14 07:15:09 PM

hasty ambush: asdfbeau: FTA: Critics of online education worry about quality and intangibles that could be lost without a face-to-face setting.

"A lot of the discussion about online classes takes the view that education is a package of facts," said John Curtis , director of research and public policy at the American Association of University Professors in Washington. "Education is a process of interaction, of thinking through concepts, debating ideas and having others react to your thoughts."

if only there were a place where you could think through concepts, and debate ideas with others, without having to pay thousands of dollars a year...

Interesting how people rush to defend the outdated brick and mortar college. No doubt they lament the passing of the video
rental store and village blacksmith.


Hey, we've got FARK. Who needs some fancy pants edumacashun.

www.untoldentertainment.com

The future is here.
 
2011-02-14 07:20:45 PM

Fart_Machine: hasty ambush: asdfbeau: FTA: Critics of online education worry about quality and intangibles that could be lost without a face-to-face setting.

"A lot of the discussion about online classes takes the view that education is a package of facts," said John Curtis , director of research and public policy at the American Association of University Professors in Washington. "Education is a process of interaction, of thinking through concepts, debating ideas and having others react to your thoughts."

if only there were a place where you could think through concepts, and debate ideas with others, without having to pay thousands of dollars a year...

Interesting how people rush to defend the outdated brick and mortar college. No doubt they lament the passing of the video
rental store and village blacksmith.

Hey, we've got FARK. Who needs some fancy pants edumacashun.



The future is here.


It is not the value of education that is being questoned but the methods in which it is being obtained.
 
2011-02-14 07:39:18 PM

erveek: A spokesman for the University of Texas System said, "We look forward to reviewing details of the governor's proposal."

The spokesman then chuckled and got back to polishing his once-a-semester press release about why it's necessary to hike tuition and fees again.


Worse still is the UT system has an endowment of about $13 billion.
 
2011-02-14 07:42:09 PM

hasty ambush: captain_heroic44: hasty ambush: captain_heroic44: BMulligan: captain_heroic44: Alexander Hamilton, "Report on Manufactures," submitted to Congress on behalf of George Washington, 1792.

Fun fact: One of George Washington's greatest regrets was that he failed to establish a National University.

A less fun fact is that 230-odd years into the Republic, we still don't have one. : (

It could be that he realized he lacked the constitutional authority to do so.

Why do I suspect this proposition is as well supported as your claim that lawyers default on their student loans at a higher rate than other degree holders? Or your claim that "unemployed" lawyers fuel the filing of frivolous lawsuits?

"According to the National Law Journal 40% of law school graduates default on their student loans incurring collection fees of 29% when turned over to collection. Law school graduates default more than doctors, engineers, and business school graduates"

Link (new window)


Good news for you is, I suspected you had vandalized the Answers.com page just to fabricate support for your claim. I traced the claim back to its source on Wikipedia. The Wikipedia page contained no evidence that it was edited today, or that this particular claim or its source had been edited.

So good for you. Best evidence is, you're not lying.

Bad news for you is, the source isn't directly from the "National Law Journal." Rather, it is from a Fordham University website which is no longer available, and which someone claims to have visited in 2002.

So this extraordinary claim--which may actually be true now because of the recession--is backed by a 9 year hold source quoting another source neither of which can be readily verified, either for the question of whether they asserted that claim, or their methodology.

I commend you for trying, and for not apparently lying. But candidly, I need more credible evidence before I'll believe your claim. And to really convince me, you'd need to provide evidence with data taken before December of 2007.

Also, both your claim that unemployed lawyers fuel frivolous lawsuits, and your claim that George Washington believed a national university was constitutionally authorized, remain utterly unsupported.
 
2011-02-14 07:44:41 PM

captain_heroic44: Also, both your claim that unemployed lawyers fuel frivolous lawsuits, and your claim that George Washington believed a national university was not constitutionally authorized, remain utterly unsupported.


FTFM.
 
2011-02-14 07:52:20 PM

hasty ambush: Interesting how people rush to defend the outdated brick and mortar college. No doubt they lament the passing of the video
rental store and village blacksmith.


I've seen no evidence that the traditional brick and mortar college is "passing." For the time being, at least, brick and mortar colleges offer credibility that online schools simply don't. Let me know when folks stop going to Harvard so they can get University of Phoenix degrees instead.
 
2011-02-14 08:22:14 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: sprawl15: Instead of building a new stadium, lower tuition. There. What do I win?

A "D" in economics.

Sports programs usually pay for themselves or turn a profit for the school.


Incorrect. Absolutely, totally, and utterly incorrect.

Please look up your facts before making such a ridiculous claim. Start with the EADA data, move on to the Knight Commission, and then check out the refereed economics literature on this topic.
 
2011-02-14 08:33:28 PM
DarnoKonrad:
ne2d: Stop subsidizing higher education with student loans and watch the price of tuition plummet.

You'd be left with a few universities that had both rich kids and good sports teams. One that thing that won't happen is lower tuition.


It worked well pre-civil war. Though those typical socialists after the war wanted to lower the cost of education so ordinary people could go and learn just so it didn't lead to a massive amount of low educated people who would be eager to fight another retarded war.
 
2011-02-14 10:54:02 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: rewind2846: Toss in a generous $500 for books and other supplies over two or three years

$500 per semester, maybe.... you should still come in well under $10,000 though.

/AA Riverside Community College... super cheap
/BS West Chester University of PA.... not quite as lucky, but still decent.


I was an art major... my supplies cost more than $500, but my books (6) cost less than $300 (I rented all of them, another way to save bucks)

/don't buy books unless you HAVE to
 
2011-02-14 11:02:25 PM

BMulligan:
If you want to provide $10,000 bachelor degrees, it's easy to do - just increase public funding to the universities. But if you want to bring the real, total cost of a college education down to $10,000 or less, well, good luck.


Consider this: how much more is that educated person going to contribute to the tax base than someone without said education, compared to the "subsidized" education they received?

The "real" cost is not so much a cost, but an investment that will reap dividends in the future. That's why it's important, that's why california has done it, and as a result that's why they have so many people in well-paid jobs, even with unemployment at 10% or so.

If you think small, you'll always be small. If all you think about is now, then now is where you'll always be. The future is worth it.
 
2011-02-14 11:30:44 PM

LasersHurt: Even better, overhaul High School so you can stop repeating the same shiat year after year, get all of the gen-ed you'd have done in college out of the way early, then make college core-classes only.


Texas High School teacher here: I recently heard something about 12th grade being useless and it should be done away with. I could not agree more with this assessment.

Of course, I am also for the school day being longer and going four days a week - Tuesday through Friday. There are already districts in other states that do this and funny things have happened: better attendance by students; better attendance by teachers which reduces district costs for subs; and what else??? oh yeah, test scores have gone up!
 
2011-02-15 01:38:23 AM

sprawl15: Instead of building a new stadium, lower tuition. There. What do I win?


The University of Texas athletic department is self-sufficient and profitable. A&M, not so much, but that's because A&M is stupid.
 
2011-02-15 11:03:27 AM

spooner: Texas High School teacher here


903!
 
2011-02-15 03:42:28 PM

rewind2846: Consider this: how much more is that educated person going to contribute to the tax base than someone without said education, compared to the "subsidized" education they received?


Hmm... Going by Wiki:
Household income for those > 25(because of the big difference between male&female):
Median income, HS Grad: $36,835
Median income, Associate: $51,970
Median income, Bachelor: $68,728

Additional Income:
HS Grad -> Associate: $15,135
Associate -> Bachelor: $16,758

They're all in the 15% tax bracket for 2010, 25% actually hits at $68k, but with deductions, not many bachelors will actually hit it, plus, I'm trying to keep it simple.

Getting somebody an associates would then average another $2,270, and upgrading to a Bachelor's would be $2514, for a total of $4784 per family in upgrading a HS grad to a bachelor's degree.

That would translate to an additional $191,360 over the course of a 40 year career(25-65). This would be federal level only, of course, and assumes that social security/medicare is pretty much even(paying in more is balanced out by getting more when they retire). Though theoretically you'd also have to figure in the ~$22k in forgone income tax while the individual was in school.

This DOES neglect some things like how right now a skilled HS grad can actually earn more than people with a 'soft' degree. Though given the amount of education they gave my brother, I'd say it's equal, at least, to an associates degree at this point.

The "real" cost is not so much a cost, but an investment that will reap dividends in the future. That's why it's important, that's why california has done it, and as a result that's why they have so many people in well-paid jobs, even with unemployment at 10% or so.

Yep, it's an investment. That doesn't mean that it's not a good idea to lower the cost, as long as we can keep the benefits. Reducing waste is never a bad idea.
 
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