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(AP) NewsFlash Saddam's sons may have been killed -- *confirmed*   (story.news.yahoo.com ) divider line 855
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15379 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2003 at 12:31 PM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2003-07-22 02:44:03 PM  
http://msnbc.com/news/942420.asp?0cv=CA01
there it is, the figure heads already going low key - already talking about bringing the dna back.

it's not them.
continue the hunt.
 
2003-07-22 02:45:23 PM  
I call that the Truth.
It's all good and well to be a tough-guy in a thread on Fark where the least that will happen is that the meaningoflifeisnot will rip you a new one.
I was talking with a Vietnam vet who was just screaming for the Marines to pick him up again to go to Iraq (he was like 63 and too old to go) but look at the mentality. He pointed at me and said,"There should be a draft so little shiats like you could see what it was all about." Then he nervously twitched as visions of punji-sticks danced in his head. Seriously screwed up.
 
2003-07-22 02:45:25 PM  
bbcrackmonkey, you would risk your life for some shmoe in Iraq? What about [insert your favorite war-torn African nation here]?
 
2003-07-22 02:46:10 PM  
Code_Archeologist
gte269 so because we have conquered in the past and gotten away with it we are justified to do it in the future?


Who said we have to be justified? In my opinion.. world peace is only going to happen if we have one uniform body of gov't... which may never happen.. but i'd be perfectly willing to let several countries take over the whole world if it meant no more fighting/genocide... hell... i might even be happy under communism rule if it meant the fighting could end (although i think thats proven not to work)
 
2003-07-22 02:46:24 PM  
PS, I am very sorry for every single soldier currently occupying Iraq having to deal with the insects the size of my fist, the heat of the Devil's Balls, sand that gets in every crevice, really long work hours with insufficient pay and gratitude, and having to miss their families for so long. I honestly think that's worse than the miniscule amount of deaths we have every so often, which are really unavoidable in both civilian and military life.
 
2003-07-22 02:46:29 PM  
2003-07-22 02:35:28 PM skinkn8r


Reburninator

Do you really need a new story to show whether or not Bush lied?


I don't want a story to tell me whether or not he lied, I want documented evidence. That's all. The fact that WMD's haven't yet been found does not mean that they were never there to begin with. It is as simple as that. Show me evidence that he knew they weren't there, but said that they were, and I will believe that he lied.

Look, I'm not a Bush lover, and frankly I think he needs to focus less on Iraq and more on the American economy. That's where my beef with him lies right now. To heck with spending billions to rebuild Iraq...spend billions at home so that people can keep their jobs. But give the man some credit...he and Tony Blair had the cajones to do what the UN was afraid to do, which should have been done 12 years ago.
 
2003-07-22 02:47:15 PM  
Stoke, how's Afghanistan doing now? It's been a couple of years at least now and outside Kabul it's still chaos...
 
2003-07-22 02:47:36 PM  
I'd be interested to know (facts, no opinions) how many US soldiers were killed a day/week/month in Germany after VE day? or in Japan after VJ day? I suspect not too many in Europe were killed, like in hostile action killed (shot or blown up by enemy combatants), not accidentally killed (like rolled a jeep or stepped on a leftover landmine)

Especially Japan - remember they were ready to fight tooth and nail, every man woman and child was set to fight to the death upon US invasion of Japan, until they were bombed twice with nuclear devices. Then the Emperor ordered a surrender, and US troops came up and occupied the island. Were many US soldiers killed afterwards in Japan, like they are now in Baghdad?
 
2003-07-22 02:47:43 PM  
bbcrackmonkey
Father_Jack
was already interrogated.
 
2003-07-22 02:48:10 PM  
Ya know, what ever happened to those underground bunkers Saddam was supposed to have built all over Baghdad and Tikrit? I haven't seen reports of us finding any, not even fragments. If I was an evil dictator (hey, it could happen) threatened by the world's greatest airpower and expecting an invasion I'd build a bunch of tunnels myself, so it would be odd if Saddam didn't.

Because that's where you'd expect these guys to be holed up, instead of some easy-to-storm cousin's house, no?
 
2003-07-22 02:48:44 PM  
"I WANT DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE!!!!"

(that's another demand i've seen a million times. not that i'll accept any evidence which does not support my opinion, but i demand it nonetheless)
 
2003-07-22 02:48:58 PM  
Pman, I would in Liberia, but not Congo. I would only risk my life if I felt that what I was doing was going to make a big difference. I'm an idealist like that one guy from Blackhawk Down. I know though, that mostly I would just wish I was back home in my bed safe and comfy.
 
2003-07-22 02:49:24 PM  
Tigger,

at this point? oh did I mess up and not google the correct answer down to months? That's just like a loser in an argument to gloss over the point and pick at some trivial aspect of the fact.

Fight WW2 with this generation of pussies? fuggitabout.
 
2003-07-22 02:49:41 PM  
stoke: "This one is going pretty well."

Well, here we go again with the utterly inappropriate WWII analogies. I swear the endless comparisons to WWII have deranged people and completely skewed their thoughts on this whole "WAR ON TERROR." Comparing this situation to WWII is even worse than comparing it to Vietnam.

Japan and Germany were highly industrialized, disciplined, and racial/religious homogeneous societies. Iraq (and the rest of the Arab/Muslim world, for that matter) is none of the above. Neither Osama nor Saddam had huge industrial bases and large, well-organized military establishments, as the Axis Powers did. Saddam and Osama are incapable of conquering and occupying large areas of enemy terrain, as the Axis Powers could, nor of projecting naval or air power even regionally.

Please don't go on with the absurd WWII comparisons, because they just confuse the issue.

If you want a comparison, use any of a number of anti-colonialist struggles, even our own (The Revolution), where we celebrate the daring and innovation of Washington's sneak attacks and harrassing tactics. The Arabs/Muslims (in their divers sorts - sunni islamists like Osama's boys, ba'athists like Saddam & Co, shia islamists like Hezbollah) are struggling against what they see as an invasion of their space and a assault on their culture and way of life. "Terrorism" is merely a form of insurgency, or "asymetrical warfare" as the wonks say. That Osama was able to project this globally in the case of 9-11 is due to the reach of our own technology and economic paradigm - he used our own tools against us. What 9-11 was emphatically not is a battle in a global war. It was a razzia, a classic Arab tribal raid, and as such was meant as ritual combat, and we don't understand the ritual.

Anyway, back to the occupation: Since this is a guerrilla struggle against invaders in the first place, all we have done by invading Iraq is to make it easier for the insurgents to close with us on their own terms, and not coincidentally, vastly increased the pool of potential insurgents into the bargain. AKA, we are radicalizing an entire generation of young Muslim men and women. We have seen this already in Israel/Palestine. What makes you think it will work better in Iraq? Please note the demographic situation we face in the Arab domain: HALF of the individuals in Iraq are under 20 years of age. That is a potential guerrilla army of approx five million, and that is just Iraq. No, Mr. Stoke, this is not going pretty well. Bush just stuck our foot in a bear trap. In a few year's time, the discussion on these boards will be concentrating not on how we retreat with honor, but how we manage to retreat at all.
 
2003-07-22 02:50:03 PM  
gte269
we run canada (its basically just another state with alot of pride (kind of like georgia))...


Um, ya right. Just the like the Russians run Chechnya.
 
2003-07-22 02:50:30 PM  
Pman,

How the hell do you know if it's "chaos". I'm out of here. Bunch mental midgets.
 
2003-07-22 02:51:29 PM  
Hussein is no George Washington in the eyes of the average Iraqi. You liberals hanky holders are really reaching today.
 
2003-07-22 02:51:36 PM  
later on, haywood.
 
2003-07-22 02:51:47 PM  
i like bacon
 
2003-07-22 02:52:14 PM  
SadDad - point is.. i've run into more trouble going from new jersey to PA than i have going from WA to BC... canada is just a puppet of the US that we like to tax alot
 
2003-07-22 02:52:37 PM  
Lets layout the truth of all of this SANS political loyalties right or left...

Fact: Hussein is a threat to the entire region. Kuwait, Kurds, funding Palestinian Suicide Bombers.

Fact: Uday and Qusai are cruel and heartless murderers and rapist who have treated the citizenry of Iraq as chattel to be used and culled as the mood takes them.

Fact: Had the Kuwait invasion been allowed to stand, the Iraqi's would have had a strangle hold on the Gulf and oil transportation. The plan had ALWAYS been to control the global oil market. Iran was Next Target.

Fact: Left unchecked, the Iraqi regime would have destabilized an already unstable region to the point of possible nuclear and or biological holocaust. Proof being the Iraqi "Tests" of Chemicals in Halabja.

It is a shame that a nation has to step up to put down a rabid regime with eyes towards global dominance through war and murder but had we not taken this responsibility during World War II, most of the planet would be speaking German or Japanese.

But with that shame comes a greater good... Balance of power in theworld.

Though we don't agree on how America deals with the global events (I Think Bush should have been honest about WHY he wanted to invade Iraq (Oil) but also qualified it with the "For the Iraqi People" statement) We should all remember that som,etimes a lie is really for the greater good... Didn't your Mama always lie to you when she tried to get you to take that ghastly medicine that tasted like what I can only imagine rancid dog piss might taste like by saying, "Trust me honey, it tatses like Cherries."

So again I say, grow up, face facts and accept that SOMEBODY has to keep the animals in check. If not the US, who? France... Please. China? Sure, they don't have an ultierior motive at all... Hope you like wearing green uniforms with red stars...

The fact is that out of all the nations fit and fair enough to do the Job, the US is the ONLY option.
 
2003-07-22 02:52:44 PM  
Were many US soldiers killed afterwards in Japan, like they are now in Baghdad?

Therein lies a big difference. The Japanese, however vicious they may have been, still abided by the rules of conflict. After your leader surrenders, the war is over. Comparing Japan to Iraq is quite a stretch. The people in Iraq only recognized Saddam as thier leader cause if not, Uday would have gave them an invitation to the "Bludgeon Room".
 
2003-07-22 02:53:00 PM  
Haywood_Jabloeme

I never argued with you how can I have lost?

You were out by 2 years or 25%. (4 years or 80% if we are using the year that the US entered the war as opposed to the invasion of Poland, what most people view as the start)

The irony lay in the fact that there was a separate discussion of people having no knowledge of history. The fact that you do not know the dates of the single most important event in 20th century history is amusing to me in this context.
 
2003-07-22 02:53:05 PM  
pontechango, that wasn't Father Jack, was it? Say it ain't so.
 
2003-07-22 02:53:27 PM  
son of secret police, I think you nailed it.
 
2003-07-22 02:54:02 PM  
sorry that 80% should have read 50%
 
2003-07-22 02:54:29 PM  
ReBurninator

I agree with your second paragraph. My point being, no matter what evidence anyone finds, it's not going to make a difference in people's opinions unfortunately...not to the degree where the massive propaganda machine can be set in reverse.

Isn't it funny that a couple months after the whole skirmish, Dubya signed a bill that released many restrictions on the FCC...you scratch my balls and I'll scratch yours..
 
2003-07-22 02:54:32 PM  
Forget WMDs. Where's all the pr0n?
 
2003-07-22 02:54:53 PM  
In other news "Elvis believed to be alive and well... in Iraq!
 
2003-07-22 02:55:00 PM  
Haywood_Jabloeme: George Washington was no George Washinton in the eyes of the average colonist. Most were loyalists.
 
2003-07-22 02:55:20 PM  
stoke: You should read a few books on Arabic culture and history, and maybe brush up on the histories of the several anti-colonial struggles that have happened in the last hundred years. It is clear that you, in comparing this to WWII, have completely misjudged the situation. But that doesn't make you unique, by any means.
 
2003-07-22 02:55:51 PM  
"son of secret police, I think you nailed it."

nice pic. right now, i'm trying NOT to make an inappropriate pun....

;-)
 
2003-07-22 02:55:53 PM  
gte269
SadDad - point is.. i've run into more trouble going from new jersey to PA than i have going from WA to BC... canada is just a puppet of the US that we like to tax alot


No, the point is you're trolling. Stop it.
 
2003-07-22 02:55:59 PM  
in other news, the United States is more unpopular than ever with the highest unemployment in 9 years! Little Bush still sucks, war on terror or not.
 
2003-07-22 02:57:07 PM  
Are Presidents allowed to make mistakes anymore? Great Gaia, we should have impeached FDR because he didn't predict Pearl Harbor (or, as some believe, knew about it and lied)!
Bush was misinformed, or he got carried away with his own rhetoric. I really don't think he lied...at least, he doesn't believe he did. That may not make it right, but he is a human being. Don't like him? Great! Vote him out of office next year. You have that power, if you're an American citizen.
We're in Iraq. It's done. All the whining or wringing of hands can't change it. Let's just do the damn thing right, get things moving again, and go home when the job's done. Since I don't think anyone here is going to defend Saddam's Boys, then I imagine we all can agree that the world is better off without them.
 
2003-07-22 02:57:51 PM  
SadDad - uh huh.. trolling .. seriously.. u don't beleive the canadian and US governments are tightly interwoven?
 
2003-07-22 02:58:12 PM  
"Vote him out of office next year. You have that power"

actually, it turns out we don't.
 
2003-07-22 02:58:44 PM  
GEAH
This is terrible news. Who are the liberals going to support handing Iraq over to when we leave?


I thought you were part of the Bush II administration. Didn't they tell you? We're NEVER leaving Iraq?

It's a great opportunity to spend $4 Billion USD per month without any controls. And reap all the benefits for the oil companies!! And cut funding for social programs in the US! It's a win/win/win for the NeoCons!!!
 
2003-07-22 02:59:05 PM  
skinkn8r

Agreed. At this point, it wouldn't matter what was found in Iraq, people will believe what they want to believe. If it isn't WMD, then it will be something else.

It's all politics, plain and simple. One side of the aisle doesn't care any more than the other side.
 
2003-07-22 03:00:52 PM  
gte269 : You really think he country that just legalized gay marriage, voted against the Iraq war, and started giving pot to sick people is the lapdog of the conservative dominated American government?
 
2003-07-22 03:01:31 PM  
MikeWeath


gte269 : You really think he country that just legalized gay marriage, voted against the Iraq war, and started giving pot to sick people is the lapdog of the conservative dominated American government?
 
2003-07-22 03:01:38 PM  
mmmm...pot
 
2003-07-22 03:02:39 PM  
"the lapdog of the conservative dominated American government?"

hey whats a couple centuries compared to the 3 years Bush has been in office...

/joking in a silly thread.
 
2003-07-22 03:03:04 PM  
gte269: What about someone in the canadian government getting fired or reprimanded for calling Bush an idiot in the papers? Still think they are intrawoven?
 
2003-07-22 03:03:10 PM  
Dissent; unfortunately, your post was not without political loyalties; you chose only to cover the facts that supported your opinion, while ignoring those that didn't.

Fact: George Bush II was intent on attacking Iraq even before his "War on Terrorism" and his "Weapons of Mass Destruction."

Fact: There are people suffering even worse than the Iraqis. Had this been a humanitarian war, we would have gone after those countries first.

[Partisan note: I don't want to go after ANYONE until we fix ourselves.]

Fact: We do not live in a dictatorship. We live in a Republic. Part of that system is allowing representatives of the people make EDUCATED decisions about what the country does, so lying about the motivations for this war IS a big deal, and will remain a big deal.

[note: if anyone brings up Clinton, I'll personally ream them.]
 
2003-07-22 03:03:22 PM  
I hate it when multiple nicks are exposed :)


I only have one nick and you should too!
 
2003-07-22 03:03:35 PM  
Sentinel:

I am in total agreement with your statement to move foreword and quit the bickering. It just seems to me that the U.S. has far too many black-eyes to heal before we get another president that "gets carried away with his own rhetoric" and screws up lots of stuff. It is the greatest responsibility I can think of to command the U.S. Armed Forces. That being said, the U.S. just cant walk around the world pointing our stick at everybody telling them they could be next. We are citizens of the world and it would be nice to at least try to understand why people are always pissed off at us before we start dropping the daisy-cutters.
 
2003-07-22 03:03:49 PM  
Pman--
"Stoke, how's Afghanistan doing now? It's been a couple of years at least now and outside Kabul it's still chaos..."


My advice is the same to you. Pick up a history book. Look at the time frames involved in our previous country rebuilding projects. I will say this, Afghanistan never had anything to "rebuild" to begin with.

Frankly, I don't see how Afghanistan is any worse off than before we invaded. I see quite a bit of social improvements happening, though. I also don't see that many reports of "chaos" coming out of Afghanistan. What civilization damning "chaos" is going on? Some warlords stirred up a little trouble a couple months ago but I haven't seen anything since then to indicate they got anywhere with it. Our GI's continue to make raids virtually without opposition all across the country.

What exactly is there outside of Khabul to get control of?
Are the goat herders staging a massive revolution? Are they running rampaging goat herds upon the villages?
 
2003-07-22 03:04:05 PM  
Let's try that again...

MikeWeath
gte269 : You really think he country that just legalized gay marriage, voted against the Iraq war, and started giving pot to sick people is the lapdog of the conservative dominated American government?

Not to mention: not arresting regular people for pot posseion, and the barely literate Prime Minister continually bragging about the relative smallness of Canada's deficit.
 
2003-07-22 03:04:15 PM  
MikeWeath - You really think the state that just legalized gay marriage, voted against the Iraq war, and started giving pot to sick people is the lapdog of the conservative dominated American government?

Yeah.. you could say the same about many states... When you come to the US you can have a canadian or US passport.. when you go to canada you can just have a driver's license... the hawaii and puerto rico are more of a foreign gov't than canada is
 
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