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(NPR)   An Alabama prison has amazing success reducing inmate violence with a meditation program. For some reason Christians have a problem with this   (npr.org) divider line 135
    More: Asinine, Alabama, Bible Belt, Pandora's box, accidental death, parole, Christian values, hospices, violence  
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7833 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2011 at 1:30 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-08 12:24:07 PM
I like the idiot in the comments asking why the ACLU hasn't stepped in. Because no law was broken? I guess he/she missed all the times the ACLU has went to bat for Christian Organizations.
 
2011-02-08 12:32:12 PM
FTA: "The Vipassana technique, though secular, is based on the teachings of Buddha. Soon after it started at Donaldson about a decade ago, the prison system's chaplains expressed concern that it might not be in keeping with Christian values. The state put an end to the program.

But Hetzel, the warden, saw the dramatic results and brought it back."

It seems like the Christians are just upset that Buddhist meditation is working better and showing the Christians to be full of empty promises.
 
2011-02-08 12:33:06 PM
So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.
 
2011-02-08 12:33:50 PM

GWLush: I like the idiot in the comments asking why the ACLU hasn't stepped in. Because no law was broken? I guess he/she missed all the times the ACLU has went to bat for Christian Organizations.


The ACLU is sort of like the CIA in that no one really likes them, or gives them any credit, up until you run into something that affects you directly, then they're farking aces...
 
2011-02-08 12:34:39 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: It seems like the Christians are just upset that Buddhist meditation is working better and showing the Christians to be full of empty promises.


{shakes head} Bless your heart.
 
2011-02-08 12:38:18 PM

Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.


I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.
 
2011-02-08 12:43:32 PM

GWLush: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.

I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.


I skimmed them. I thought they were mostly positive. I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation. Of course, most of them are Catholic, not Southern Baptist. I am sure that there are folks in Alabama who think this is just going to put us all on the road straight to hell, but I mean, come on - it's Alabama.
 
2011-02-08 12:48:51 PM

Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.

I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.

I skimmed them. I thought they were mostly positive. I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation. Of course, most of them are Catholic, not Southern Baptist. I am sure that there are folks in Alabama who think this is just going to put us all on the road straight to hell, but I mean, come on - it's Alabama.


Yeah, I grew up Southern Baptist and they are against anything but Southern Baptist. My wife and I visited South Carolina and one of my long time friends would not invite my wife over because she is a Buddhist which he found out on Facebook. I politely told him to "suck the frothiness from my cock". Needless to say we are no longer friends.
 
2011-02-08 12:49:58 PM
Rather than focus on the objection of chaplains who are worried about Christian values--when faced with a prison population that is fair often not Christian--I think that it might be better to focus, as the article does, on the value of such stark self examination.

Even if you aren't Buddhist, the techniques and self reflection as tools for rehabilitation, or at the very least, as a tool for healing. The powerful thing about such techniques is that you force yourself to confront yourself. Your motivations, your actions, and the build up of justifications for those actions. You don't have to be Buddhist to use those tools.

Meditation has a place in just about every religious practice, including Christianity. The techniques that Buddhists developed were particularly focused on self examination, to hone the mind, and free the practitioner of illusions, to confront one's own deceptions.

In the end, they are a tool, and nothing more. How you use a tool, that is the determining factor, as opposed to the tool itself.
 
2011-02-08 12:50:56 PM

GWLush: Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.

I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.

I skimmed them. I thought they were mostly positive. I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation. Of course, most of them are Catholic, not Southern Baptist. I am sure that there are folks in Alabama who think this is just going to put us all on the road straight to hell, but I mean, come on - it's Alabama.

Yeah, I grew up Southern Baptist and they are against anything but Southern Baptist. My wife and I visited South Carolina and one of my long time friends would not invite my wife over because she is a Buddhist which he found out on Facebook. I politely told him to "suck the frothiness from my cock". Needless to say we are no longer friends.


I grew up in SC. Knew people who would fit that description. New Orleans is like a polar opposite of that when it comes to religious tolerance.
 
2011-02-08 12:53:02 PM

Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.

I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.

I skimmed them. I thought they were mostly positive. I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation. Of course, most of them are Catholic, not Southern Baptist. I am sure that there are folks in Alabama who think this is just going to put us all on the road straight to hell, but I mean, come on - it's Alabama.

Yeah, I grew up Southern Baptist and they are against anything but Southern Baptist. My wife and I visited South Carolina and one of my long time friends would not invite my wife over because she is a Buddhist which he found out on Facebook. I politely told him to "suck the frothiness from my cock". Needless to say we are no longer friends.

I grew up in SC. Knew people who would fit that description. New Orleans is like a polar opposite of that when it comes to religious tolerance.


I grew up in the Anderson/Greenville area. You?
 
2011-02-08 12:54:37 PM
The Vipassana technique, though secular, is based on the teachings of Buddha. Soon after it started at Donaldson about a decade ago, the prison system's chaplains expressed concern that it might not be in keeping with Christian values. The state put an end to the program.

well that's just wonderful.
 
2011-02-08 12:55:14 PM

GWLush: Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.

I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.

I skimmed them. I thought they were mostly positive. I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation. Of course, most of them are Catholic, not Southern Baptist. I am sure that there are folks in Alabama who think this is just going to put us all on the road straight to hell, but I mean, come on - it's Alabama.

Yeah, I grew up Southern Baptist and they are against anything but Southern Baptist. My wife and I visited South Carolina and one of my long time friends would not invite my wife over because she is a Buddhist which he found out on Facebook. I politely told him to "suck the frothiness from my cock". Needless to say we are no longer friends.

I grew up in SC. Knew people who would fit that description. New Orleans is like a polar opposite of that when it comes to religious tolerance.

I grew up in the Anderson/Greenville area. You?


I lived in the Greenville area for about two years before going to college in Charleston. Before that, spend seven years in Florence, SC. The less I say about Florence, the better. My parents still live in the upstate.
 
2011-02-08 12:56:27 PM

Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: GWLush: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.

I am not the subby but I think he/she may be referring to the comments also.

I skimmed them. I thought they were mostly positive. I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation. Of course, most of them are Catholic, not Southern Baptist. I am sure that there are folks in Alabama who think this is just going to put us all on the road straight to hell, but I mean, come on - it's Alabama.

Yeah, I grew up Southern Baptist and they are against anything but Southern Baptist. My wife and I visited South Carolina and one of my long time friends would not invite my wife over because she is a Buddhist which he found out on Facebook. I politely told him to "suck the frothiness from my cock". Needless to say we are no longer friends.

I grew up in SC. Knew people who would fit that description. New Orleans is like a polar opposite of that when it comes to religious tolerance.

I grew up in the Anderson/Greenville area. You?

I lived in the Greenville area for about two years before going to college in Charleston. Before that, spend seven years in Florence, SC. The less I say about Florence, the better. My parents still live in the upstate.


Been to Florence. They are intellectuals compared to some of the small towns I lived in.
 
2011-02-08 01:12:02 PM

Nabb1: I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation


Religious conservatives rail against any form of stretching or meditation classes due to the religious doctrinization of the teachings. This one is typical:

"You're being influenced just the same...make no mistake about that. They will introduce more as you go along...pay attention to the chants...you are calling on their Gods even if you think otherwise.

The whole idea behind this cultish agenda is to get people to relax and trust them....then they start playing with your head...it is very deceptive and entraps people long before they realize."
 
2011-02-08 01:24:20 PM

savage henry: Nabb1: I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation

Religious conservatives rail against any form of stretching or meditation classes due to the religious doctrinization of the teachings. This one is typical:

"You're being influenced just the same...make no mistake about that. They will introduce more as you go along...pay attention to the chants...you are calling on their Gods even if you think otherwise.

The whole idea behind this cultish agenda is to get people to relax and trust them....then they start playing with your head...it is very deceptive and entraps people long before they realize."


Which is odd, considering that the same technques are used in reflection or in extended prayer...
 
2011-02-08 01:24:50 PM

savage henry: Nabb1: I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are opposed to meditation

Religious conservatives rail against any form of stretching or meditation classes due to the religious doctrinization of the teachings. This one is typical:

"You're being influenced just the same...make no mistake about that. They will introduce more as you go along...pay attention to the chants...you are calling on their Gods even if you think otherwise.

The whole idea behind this cultish agenda is to get people to relax and trust them....then they start playing with your head...it is very deceptive and entraps people long before they realize."


Chick tract? Glenn Beck? Jesus, is that you?
 
2011-02-08 01:26:10 PM

hubiestubert: Which is odd, considering that the same technques are used in reflection or in extended prayer...


Careful now, that sounds like rational analysis. Which is the path to Satan. Do as you're told.
 
2011-02-08 01:32:36 PM
So many christians, so few lions...
 
2011-02-08 01:32:57 PM

Occam's Chainsaw: hubiestubert: Which is odd, considering that the same technques are used in reflection or in extended prayer...

Careful now, that sounds like rational analysis. Which is the path to Satan. Do as you're told.


Sorry. Dirty Buddhist here:

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
 
2011-02-08 01:34:57 PM

Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.


Dude.

Do you have a job?

Or are you paid to be an angry, disingenuous shill in every... single... goddam thread?

Jeeze. Get a life. And a real job, and then go do it.
 
2011-02-08 01:36:04 PM
Christians hate competition that actually works.
 
2011-02-08 01:36:06 PM
C'mon, don't be too hard on Southern Baptists. They're obsessed with owning human souls since they got the living bejaysus kicked out of them 150 years ago and they can't own human beings outright anymore.
 
2011-02-08 01:36:50 PM
namaste
 
2011-02-08 01:38:29 PM
I think it is funny that the Pastor would object that religion was being used in prisons.
 
2011-02-08 01:38:45 PM
Christians just don't like the competition. Christian fundamentalists have been using the prison system as a recruiting ground for a very long time, as they know that with a captive audience, color of authority, and a population of people who are vulnerable, it's an easy place to do so.
 
2011-02-08 01:40:45 PM

hubiestubert: Dirty Buddhist here


I hear ya, brother. Heavy Taoist leanings here.
 
2011-02-08 01:40:53 PM
Betcha that darn troublemaker Ken Kesey would have had a problem with it, too.
webomatica.com
 
2011-02-08 01:41:03 PM

Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.


i.imgur.com

That being said, I expect as much from fark.
 
2011-02-08 01:41:56 PM

Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.


That's not fair dude. I think subby's as dumb as a box of hammers.
 
2011-02-08 01:43:58 PM
If the chaplain was smart he would go through the program and work it with Christian values guiding parts of the meditation, instead of just wanting it cancelled.
 
2011-02-08 01:44:29 PM
Chaplains setting behavior policy in state run institutions and their apologists, Live on Fark.com
 
2011-02-08 01:44:50 PM
Don't they know they're supposed to go Muslim in the hoosegow?
 
2011-02-08 01:44:52 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: FTA: "The Vipassana technique, though secular, is based on the teachings of Buddha. Soon after it started at Donaldson about a decade ago, the prison system's chaplains expressed concern that it might not be in keeping with Christian values. The state put an end to the program.

But Hetzel, the warden, saw the dramatic results and brought it back."


Welp, "by their fruits you shall know them". I guess not all meditation is a gateway to demon possession.
 
2011-02-08 01:45:34 PM
There's actually no innate philosophical or political conflict between many sects of buddhism and christianity, since something like half of the flavors of buddhism are non-religious. You can be a Christian Buddhist, in the same way you can be a Christian Republican or a Christian Boy Scout or a Christian Freemason. The club memberships are not mutually exclusive.

I could see certain denominations that cater specifically to stupid people (Baptists, for instance) not having any members smart enough to understand that, though.

//After all, there are also sects of Buddhism that _are_ religious.
 
2011-02-08 01:46:12 PM

hubiestubert: when faced with a prison population that is fair often not Christian


Actually.. according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, most prisoners are Christians.

Catholic - 39.164%
Protestant - 35.008%
Muslim - 7.273%
Jewish - 1.773%
Church of Christ - 1.744%
Pentecostal - 1.463%
Buddhist - 1.180%
Jehovah Witness - 0.890%
Mormon - 0.399%
Scientology - 0.254%
Atheist - 0.209%
 
2011-02-08 01:46:58 PM
It looks like the whole program was shut down because of the vocabulary.

If the practitioners had called it something ridiculous like "Psychological Massage" or "Mental Anesthesia", and billed it like a low-cost medication, it'd likely have had the same success rate and probably could have continued without contest.

OR if the chaplains had come in with their choice of Jesus-inspired wordage/mantra it could easily be made into Christian meditation. Those clergy get zero points for creativity.
 
2011-02-08 01:47:35 PM
How brilliant of them. Nothing like taking away a net-beneficial program at A CORRECTIONS FACILITY. Other than the most heinous of criminals that have been put away with the notion that they'll never see the outside of prison walls again, the GOAL BEHIND CORRECTIONS is to (1) keep the public safe while (2) *trying* to get the imprisoned to become a minimal or non-threat to society again SO THAT HE/SHE CAN BE RELEASED as soon as possible [a parallel goal being "minimizing recidivism"].

THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF CORRECTIONS/IMPRISONMENT IS HUGE - taxpayers not only pay for the incarceration but society loses the incarcerated's productivity. It's a gigantic hole of suck. Anything that helps the incarcerated become less of a threat to society is a motherfarking good thing.

/alabama, you dummy
 
2011-02-08 01:48:23 PM

wolfpaq777: Nabb1: So, let me get this straight, submitter, you read that entire article, and zoned in on the one paragraph that mentioned (practically in passing) the prison chaplains objected, resulting in a temporary stopping of the program until the warden reinstated it, and then drew the conclusion that all Christians objected to it? Either you're trolling for a green light or you are as dumb as a box of hair.



That being said, I expect as much from fark.


Yeah, basically. I mean, Christians are to blame for all of the world's problems on Fark.
 
2011-02-08 01:48:27 PM

Kali-Yuga: Atheist - 0.209%


I wonder if that's because as atheists, we don't believe in an afterlife, and instead focus on dealing with life now, and life stuck in prison ain't no life at all.
 
2011-02-08 01:49:30 PM

Occam's Chainsaw: I hear ya, brother. Heavy Taoist leanings here.


A Farker I haven't seen around for a long time coined the expression: "Church of the Quantum Tao: You may already be a member."
 
2011-02-08 01:49:46 PM
At least it's not yoga. Downward facing dog is a stalking horse for fundamentalist Islam.
 
2011-02-08 01:53:44 PM
This is as stupid as those derpers who think that Yoga must be altered specifically for Christians.
 
2011-02-08 01:55:47 PM

gameshowhost: How brilliant of them. Nothing like taking away a net-beneficial program at A CORRECTIONS FACILITY. Other than the most heinous of criminals that have been put away with the notion that they'll never see the outside of prison walls again, the GOAL BEHIND CORRECTIONS is to (1) keep the public safe while (2) *trying* to get the imprisoned to become a minimal or non-threat to society again SO THAT HE/SHE CAN BE RELEASED as soon as possible [a parallel goal being "minimizing recidivism"].

THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF CORRECTIONS/IMPRISONMENT IS HUGE - taxpayers not only pay for the incarceration but society loses the incarcerated's productivity. It's a gigantic hole of suck. Anything that helps the incarcerated become less of a threat to society is a motherfarking good thing.

/alabama, you dummy


Okay I RTFA (what - this is Fark... did you expect me to comment *after* reading it? =|) and see that it's a supermax, so these guys aren't going to see the light of day. And that the program was brought back. Though the prison chaplains were still being retarded and the state was dumb for eliminating the program in the first place.

Naughty subby! Spoo on your mom.

/but my rant still holds, otherwise
 
2011-02-08 01:55:48 PM
FTA: "The Vipassana technique, though secular, is based on the teachings of Buddha. Soon after it started at Donaldson about a decade ago, the prison system's chaplains expressed concern that it might not be in keeping with Christian values. The state put an end to the program."

So the state stopped a program because it wasn't christian.

How is this not "promoting a religion"?? The state saying only christian programs are allowed. This is in violation of the US Constitution???
 
2011-02-08 01:55:50 PM

Kali-Yuga: hubiestubert: when faced with a prison population that is fair often not Christian

Actually.. according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, most prisoners are Christians.

Catholic - 39.164%
Protestant - 35.008%
Muslim - 7.273%
Jewish - 1.773%
Church of Christ - 1.744%
Pentecostal - 1.463%
Buddhist - 1.180%
Jehovah Witness - 0.890%
Mormon - 0.399%
Scientology - 0.254%
Atheist - 0.209%


So you are saying most criminals are Christian? Wouldn't the prudent solution be to ban all Christian religions, or just kill 'em all? FEWER CHRISTIANS = LESS CRIME!

/yes, I know.
 
2011-02-08 01:57:19 PM
I originally read the headline as 'medication'. Thought it would be the Scientologists complaining.
 
2011-02-08 01:58:23 PM
Quakers are christians and their entire worship service revolves around meditation.

Methinks the "christians" who dislike meditation are less "christians" and more "pathetic losers."
 
2011-02-08 02:01:17 PM

foxy_canuck: If the chaplain was smart he would go through the program and work it with Christian values guiding parts of the meditation, instead of just wanting it cancelled.


That was my first thought too. The fact that they didn't think to try that makes me think they weren't very well-educated in Theological teaching-- Reflection & Meditation can work well for people who don't respond to the Hellfire & Brimstone approach.
 
2011-02-08 02:01:18 PM
The list of what they don't have a problem with is shorter.

And scarier.
 
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