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(The News & Observer (NC))   North Carolina DOT chief engineer wants citizen criminally charged for disagreeing with his agency. Not because the criticism was wrong -- because it was right   (newsobserver.com) divider line 283
    More: Asinine, north carolina dot  
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26893 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2011 at 1:10 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-02-03 11:38:41 PM  
TFA Andrew L. Ritter, executive director of the engineers licensing board, said it will take three or four months to investigate Lacy's allegation against Cox. He said there is a potential for violation if DOT and the public were misled by "engineering-quality work"- even if the authors did not claim to be engineers.

If I were Cox, I would beg the licensing board to charge me. That could lead to an epic lawsuit.
 
2011-02-03 11:59:14 PM  
You can't practice engineering without a license? What the fark does that mean!? You can't do math without a license?

I can see if you're peddling your engineering skills to a company and you're not licensed, but this guy simply put a report together to say "Put in a traffic light."

Of all the government bullshiat great googly moogly...
 
2011-02-04 12:07:26 AM  

I_Hate_Iowa: You can't practice engineering without a license? What the fark does that mean!? You can't do math without a license?


Easy, there. That's an engineering-quality question.

Are you trying to mislead us?
 
2011-02-04 12:16:47 AM  
But what about the poor engineers that lost a job because of this computer scientist performing engineering-level work? Did any one think of them?

/facepalms
 
2011-02-04 01:12:58 AM  
What a frivolous argument. How hard can it be to run a train?
 
2011-02-04 01:14:08 AM  
Yet another made up crime in the growing American police state. I wonder why cops are getting shot more and more often during traffic stops?
 
2011-02-04 01:15:08 AM  

I_Hate_Iowa: You can't practice engineering without a license? What the fark does that mean!? You can't do math without a license?


This is North Carolina. He might as well have been practicing witchcraft.
 
2011-02-04 01:15:27 AM  
So basically they're after this guy because his report looked too good? Too professional? It sounds like those teachers who demand, if you made 100% on the test, "you must have been cheating".

I believe the real reason for all this: they want to force out which "traitor" engineer created this report, so they can blacklist him somewhere for city projects.
 
2011-02-04 01:16:36 AM  
Speaking as an official not-an-Engineer*, this is bullshiat. If somebody hires a contractor to build a bridge based on his designs then yeah, he'd better be properly licensed. Merely doing the work and showing it to someone is fair game for anyone.

*B.A.Sc degree, but didn't follow through for the full P.Eng
 
2011-02-04 01:16:53 AM  
So on the one hand this is more government bureaucrat protection bullshiat. On the other hand some moron is trying to get the state to put up more traffic lights.

Anyway they can both lose?
 
2011-02-04 01:17:00 AM  

markcant: What a frivolous argument. How hard can it be to run a train?


Not very. Have you met Karen?
 
2011-02-04 01:17:49 AM  
Chalk up another victory for the "the government is there to help" crowd.
 
2011-02-04 01:17:52 AM  
He was told there was going to be no math and that's the way he should have kept it.
 
2011-02-04 01:20:02 AM  
Arrest that man! Not the one who did calculations without a license, but the one who reported him. Reporting him is acting like a police officer, but this DOT fellow is not a police officer.
 
2011-02-04 01:21:58 AM  
What the fark... thats ridiculous.
 
2011-02-04 01:23:49 AM  
I'm not claiming Kevin Lacy is a douche-bag, but he appears to be doing douche-bag level work.
 
2011-02-04 01:25:19 AM  
I have it under great authority, it is illegal to write in complete sentences, or "author-quality" work, in SC, unless you are a licensed Writer. Reason being, if the average person sees you writing in proper grammar, they would assume you are a professional writer--and that would be fraud.
 
2011-02-04 01:25:28 AM  
I can see where this was a problem if the report was prepared and sold to his association by an unlicensed (or anonymous) engineer, and from TFA it seems like that might have been the case. If it was a bunch of concerned citizens who just happened to be damn good at math and reportcraft, that's one thing...but there are certain conventions in engineering that make it telltale it was done by a professional.

Same thing in securities, by the way. If your neighbor, Joe Blow the plumber, advises you to buy XYZ stock through casual conversation and doesn't sell that advice, that's one thing. If he's unlicensed and collecting fees working as a de facto investment adviser, that could be a finin'/jailin'/sanctionin'. The fact that his advice may have led to portfolio gains (i.e. his advice was correct) is absolutely irrelevant.
 
2011-02-04 01:26:35 AM  
Kevin Lacy needs to be fired for misusing public funds and frivolously reporting Cox for investigation. What a douche nozzle!
 
2011-02-04 01:27:15 AM  
Welcome to Obama's America
 
2011-02-04 01:27:25 AM  
"If Cox is found to have practiced engineering without a license, Ritter said, the likely action would be a letter telling him not to do it again"

Cute. So a potential four month investigation, if ruled against Cox, would most likely lead to a sternly worded letter.

That's a worthy cost to the taxpayers and a state agency's time if I've ever seen one.
 
2011-02-04 01:27:34 AM  
Math --

Speaker2Animals: TFA Andrew L. Ritter, executive director of the engineers licensing board, said it will take three or four months to investigate Lacy's allegation against Cox. He said there is a potential for violation if DOT and the public were misled by "engineering-quality work"- even if the authors did not claim to be engineers.

If I were Cox, I would beg the licensing board to charge me. That could lead to an epic lawsuit.


No kidding -- this is the most asinine thing I've read today. This is almost Kansas-grade stupid. The guy should just be thankful he didn't use any calculus in that letter -- he'd probably get 20 years in the electric-chair.
 
2011-02-04 01:28:09 AM  
FTA:
"DOT gets many reports and petitions from residents opposing road plans and engineering decisions. Lacy said this is the first time he has referred a case to the professional licensing board."

so many dumb hicks drunkenly write in that they dont want lights and they dont like the speed limit... or that they want a road that runs directly into their garage for their ease of use.... hell there could be death threats if the city puts a road thru some hicks weed farm.


but someone writes in something intelligent and they get investigated....

sounds about right for NC.
 
2011-02-04 01:28:17 AM  
This is total bullshait. Most of the stuff that is built is not done by licensed engineers to begin with. Designers and engineering majors that do not have a cert do it. The engineers are budget managers that sign off on the documents the ones under them actually created. I know designers that have been working in the field for 30 years that can do most of what engineers in their discipline can do.

Also, does this extend to other things. If someone takes the time to research an issue and prepares and excellent brief or article, can they be referred to the state bar for prenting to be a lawyer?

What teachers? People that perform great first aid.

Total BS.
 
2011-02-04 01:28:34 AM  
"If Cox is found to have practiced engineering without a license, Ritter said, the likely action would be a letter telling him not to do it again."

That made me chuckle
 
2011-02-04 01:28:36 AM  
Someone's never going to have to work again.

And someone else is going to get fired.
 
2011-02-04 01:29:36 AM  

Sun Khan: but there are certain conventions in engineering that make it telltale it was done by a professional.


Well that smells like weapons grade BS!
 
2011-02-04 01:29:41 AM  

red5ish: I'm not claiming Kevin Lacy is a douche-bag, but he appears to be doing douche-bag level work.


awesome.
 
2011-02-04 01:29:51 AM  
I guess he was expecting a "You didn't think this through" response to the HOA, and instead, he got his dick slapped in public.
/I'm thinking an itty-bitty winkie.
 
2011-02-04 01:30:21 AM  

Killer Cars: "If Cox is found to have practiced engineering without a license, Ritter said, the likely action would be a letter telling him not to do it again"

Cute. So a potential four month investigation, if ruled against Cox, would most likely lead to a sternly worded letter.


What an investigation leading to a sternly-worded letter might look like:
www.september11news.com
 
2011-02-04 01:31:09 AM  

markcant: What a frivolous argument. How hard can it be to run a train?


Apparently not as hard as being an engineer. It would seem just about anyone that can draw and put together a cogent argument can convince even an actual engineer.

I'd countersue on the basis of Lacy being an enormous dickwad. I'd bet a jury would find that fair enough grounds.
 
2011-02-04 01:31:47 AM  
Doing math without a license ... that's a paddlin'
 
2011-02-04 01:31:58 AM  

Schlock: "If Cox is found to have practiced engineering without a license, Ritter said, the likely action would be a letter telling him not to do it again."

That made me chuckle


was just going to post the same quote.


You wouldn't BELIEVE how many laws I must be breaking - fixing cars without a SAE license, fixing dinner w/o chef credentials, trimming my biatchin 'stach w/o a cosmetology license, delivering babies w/o being board-certified....etc etc.
 
2011-02-04 01:33:49 AM  
(Adjusts tinfoil hat)

So should a private citizen saying they disagree for philosophical/technical reasons with a proposed law be investigated for practicing law without a license just because they give a reasoned analysis?

I really wanted to find 'something' redeeming about the DOT's argument but I just can't ...
 
2011-02-04 01:33:51 AM  
So apparently it's not a crime in North Carolina to be intelligent, it's just a misdemeanor.
 
2011-02-04 01:33:57 AM  
Al-Jazeera is covering the wrong revolution.

"We hear you loud and clear, Falls of Neuse in Raleigh, NC!!! The world is watching and we stand with you in your struggle!!!"
 
2011-02-04 01:37:42 AM  
As a non-engineer who has done a fair amount of engineering work (that was signed off by licensed engineers), I'm getting a kick out of Mr. Lacy's smokescreen. Sounds like some of the public sector engineers I've worked with.
 
2011-02-04 01:39:56 AM  
Wait, I was trained by the Navy in Nuclear Engineering, certified by a Navy Commanding Officer to run the Nuclear reactors on his ship but I do not have a degree in Nuclear Engineering. So if I use my training and knowledge to produce a report about the safety of a nuclear reactor for free for my neighborhood group to show why or why not they should build a reactor next door, I can be reported to my friendly local Engineering board for Engineering level work without a license??

WTF??

Just because you do not have a license does not mean you do not have professional level knowledge about a subject. He needs to really get a grip on reality. Some people are just smart. Oh never mind. This IS Farktm after all.
 
2011-02-04 01:42:46 AM  
They better hang this fake engineering guy up good, or the next thing you know we'll have community organizers thinking that they can run the whole damn country.
 
2011-02-04 01:44:27 AM  

Road_Kill: Sun Khan: but there are certain conventions in engineering that make it telltale it was done by a professional.

Well that smells like weapons grade BS!


Almost every profession has best practices and style sheets, whether it's journalism, medicine, law or yes, engineering - accepted ways and means to assemble and show data. For example, you could write a incisive commentary on a ruling just by having intelligence and wisdom, but your style of delivery would make that argument look nothing like a legal brief, as there's generally accepted conventions for writing those within the legal profession. So it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that the authorities are looking at this report may have concluded that a licensed engineer (the key here) drafted this report and failed to take responsibility for its contents, which is not cool.

But, please, continue with your outrage and insults.
 
2011-02-04 01:44:47 AM  
I'm siding with the government on this one. What if they were fooled into following this non-engineering citizen's recommendations and someone was killed due to the absence of a streetlight?
 
2011-02-04 01:45:51 AM  
what does that say about licenced transportation engineers if "engineering quality work" was produced by either a non-licenced engineer or someone who isnt an engineer at all?
 
2011-02-04 01:48:28 AM  

Gdalescrboz: what does that say about licenced transportation engineers if "engineering quality work" was produced by either a non-licenced engineer or someone who isnt an engineer at all?


Or that this layman produced a more accurate analysis than a licensed engineer?
 
2011-02-04 01:49:39 AM  
The general line is whether or not you are charging for your services. If I tell someone that they have a cold and to eat some chicken noodle soup, take two aspirin, and go to bed, It's fine as long as I don't charge them. If I charge them, however, it becomes "practicing medicine without a license".
 
2011-02-04 01:50:20 AM  

Biner: As a non-engineer who has done a fair amount of engineering work (that was signed off by licensed engineers), I'm getting a kick out of Mr. Lacy's smokescreen. Sounds like some of the public sector engineers I've worked with.


Sounds to me like they were upset that the report was distributed to the community as an engineering document. It apparently is an engineering document.

Sounds to me like the head of DOT department is doing two things, 1) busting this guys balls, 2) protecting his profession. Allowing people to practice in a profession without the licensure and accreditation of the governing bodies of your profession is just bad business. It also diminishes the quality the practitioners. I have no problem with the guy publishing a document, and he very well may be a competent engineer but without requiring accreditation and licensing you just end up with an inferior quality.

I mean shiat, probably some people on Fark right now could make a decent surgeon just by studying independently. Doesn't mean I would want them cutting me open. Or building the bridges I drive 2 tons of metal over.
 
2011-02-04 01:52:26 AM  
lelio 2011-02-04 01:44:47 AM

I'm siding with the government on this one. What if they were fooled into following this non-engineering citizen's recommendations and someone was killed due to the absence of a streetlight?


Then, uh, you need to get someone who can tell the difference between good engineering and bad engineering to evaluate good engineering and bad engineering. I mean, if i get paid to audit bansk, and the bank is pulling the cover over my eyes, then i need to be replaced.
 
2011-02-04 01:53:26 AM  

GoldSpider: Chalk up another victory for the "the government is there to help" crowd.


i265.photobucket.com
 
2011-02-04 01:55:28 AM  
Stupid charges. Being that he isn't even alleged to be claiming to be an engineer I'm not sure how they think he wouldn't be protected by the first amendment.
 
2011-02-04 01:55:48 AM  
Nice try subby, but nowhere in the article is there the slightest suggestion that the petitioner is right -- or that his report is in any sense more accurate than that written by the person who actually is an engineer.
 
2011-02-04 01:56:41 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Speaking as an official not-an-Engineer*, this is bullshiat. If somebody hires a contractor to build a bridge based on his designs then yeah, he'd better be properly licensed. Merely doing the work and showing it to someone is fair game for anyone.

*B.A.Sc degree, but didn't follow through for the full P.Eng


Isn't this like MIT and other techie schools and their "open course" programs? You get all the info to read and learn as you wish, but none of the certifications?
 
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