Yeah, I can't imagine what the husband must be feeling.

Also... something just about the way she did it, is cold and creepy as hell. There's stories where people kill their kids in the heat of a really terrible fight, but to do one and then just calmly walk upstairs and kill the other kid?

Creepy doesn't even start to describe it.

sad

So tragic. The girl was cute as well

\cue pedobear "too old" gif.
\\going straight to hell for that last slashie.

Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

What if it was her husband's pistol?

/just sayin

FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what who actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

FTFY. Taking away the guns doesn't change the motive in which people kill. It only changes the method.

GAT_00

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

citationneeded.jpg

/I'd be curious as to what the actual statistics were when it comes to methods of murder.
//and yeah, I'll focus on what is actually doing the killing, criminals and mental cases.

FirstNationalBastard: because guns would be illegal in your magical

Go back and find where I said the phrase 'outlaw guns.' I'll wait.

Woolwine: FTFY. Taking away the guns doesn't change the motive in which people kill. It only changes the method.

And she could have easily stabbed her kids to death. I don't think it would be strange to conclude she had at least one big kitchen knife in her house that she could have used. She bought a gun.

Igor Jakovsky: citationneeded.jpg

I'm having trouble finding exact numbers nationwide, but I'll give you NYC: 2008 - 125 killed by a knife, 292 by a gun

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: because guns would be illegal in your magical

Go back and find where I said the phrase 'outlaw guns.' I'll wait.

Woolwine: FTFY. Taking away the guns doesn't change the motive in which people kill. It only changes the method.

And she could have easily stabbed her kids to death. I don't think it would be strange to conclude she had at least one big kitchen knife in her house that she could have used. She bought a gun.

And if guns were restricted, she would have stabbed her son to death and slashed her daughter's throat. Guns are preferred because they're efficient. But if we take them away, do you think people are going to say "I don't have a gun, I guess I can't kill"? No. If we take away the guns, nutjobs will get better at using other weapons. GUN violence may go down (because the only way to get them would be through the black market), but overall violence will not. She used a gun because it was quicker, not because it was the only way. A gun is harmless unless it is loaded and someone pulls the trigger.

FirstNationalBastard: I was expecting the outlawing them thing to be in there somewhere.

Why on earth would I say outlaw all guns? What I'm saying here is the same thing I said with Loughner - if they were forced to get a psychological evaluation before being allowed to purchase a gun, both would have thrown up red flags. That's 8 avoidable deaths.

And on the knife point again - she could have stabbed her kids to death without any trouble. I'm sure there was an knife sharp enough to kill in the house. She could have killed them with a knife at any time. She chose instead to go buy a gun. That suggests that she wouldn't have killed them with a knife if she was stopped from buying a gun. If she would have just then killed them with the knife, why didn't she do so before?

Also,

Woolwine: A gun is harmless unless it is loaded and someone pulls the trigger.

I'm pretty sure it hurts to get pistol whipped.

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: I was expecting the outlawing them thing to be in there somewhere.

Why on earth would I say outlaw all guns? What I'm saying here is the same thing I said with Loughner - if they were forced to get a psychological evaluation before being allowed to purchase a gun, both would have thrown up red flags. That's 8 avoidable deaths.

And on the knife point again - she could have stabbed her kids to death without any trouble. I'm sure there was an knife sharp enough to kill in the house. She could have killed them with a knife at any time. She chose instead to go buy a gun. That suggests that she wouldn't have killed them with a knife if she was stopped from buying a gun. If she would have just then killed them with the knife, why didn't she do so before?

Because guns are quicker and more efficient. You use the easiest method possible.

GAT_00: Also,

Woolwine: A gun is harmless unless it is loaded and someone pulls the trigger.

I'm pretty sure it hurts to get pistol whipped.

True. But it would still be the same as if you got hit with a baseball bat, golf club, wrench, etc., so I didn't mention pistol whip.

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: I was expecting the outlawing them thing to be in there somewhere.

Why on earth would I say outlaw all guns? What I'm saying here is the same thing I said with Loughner - if they were forced to get a psychological evaluation before being allowed to purchase a gun, both would have thrown up red flags. That's 8 avoidable deaths.

If you are saying that all gun purchasers should be forced to have a psych evaluation, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I shouldn't have to have a psych eval to exercise a constitutional right.

If you are suggesting that we need to have more funding and access to mental health doctors and facilities so folks like this don't fall through the cracks, I totally agree with you there.

As far as what you said about Loughner in the first thread, I'd be willing to bet you blamed it on Palin and Beck before you blamed it on his lunacy and the need for evaluations.

Benevolent Misanthrope: I notice, though, that she's still alive, and they're dead. Which tells me that, for all her saying otherwise, she just didn't want to be a mom anymore. She got tired of duty.

It happens. People plan a family suicide but when it comes to doing themselves in they chicken out.

Igor Jakovsky: I shouldn't have to have a psych eval to exercise a constitutional right.

If you can pass it, what's the harm? Are you saying that your absolute right is worth these deaths?

FirstNationalBastard: It would just be an extra day and another weak layer of bullshiat to go through.

So do it right.

Woolwine: Because guns are quicker and more efficient. You use the easiest method possible.

So deny her a gun. She'll still use the easiest method possible, right? Except she hadn't used it. Knives were always accessible. She didn't use them. So, assuming that, then preventing her from getting a gun would have prevented these two unnecessary deaths.

FirstNationalBastard: GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: I was expecting the outlawing them thing to be in there somewhere.

Why on earth would I say outlaw all guns? What I'm saying here is the same thing I said with Loughner - if they were forced to get a psychological evaluation before being allowed to purchase a gun, both would have thrown up red flags. That's 8 avoidable deaths.



How much do you trust the government?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the 5 day waiting period and background checks really aren't much of a deterrent for people who want to legally purchase a gun.

So, do you trust that the government would get the best, brightest, and most competent shrinks to do pre-gun purchase psych evaluations? Or would it just be an assembly line, yes or no answer, rubber stamp procedure?

Or, would you be able to go to a shrink of your own choosing, and pay him enough money to call you fit to own a gun?

Psych evaluations would be as ineffective as everything else. It would just be an extra day and another weak layer of bullshiat to go through.


Would it be perfect? Of course not. People will always be able to slip through the cracks.

Would it stop some people who really don't need a gun? Yes indeed.

Throwing strawman arguments that government funded psychologist are all cheap frauds is a bullshiat argument at the highest.



However I think our mental health system across the board needs changing just like our health care system, but you'll be against any government changes there too since you are so bootstrappy.

GAT_00 [TotalFark] Quote 2011-01-29 03:18:58 PM
Igor Jakovsky: I shouldn't have to have a psych eval to exercise a constitutional right.

If you can pass it, what's the harm? Are you saying that your absolute right is worth these deaths?

I could pass it, and if I was a mental case (assuming I had not been admitted for treatment in the past) I could lie my ass off and still pass it. So a psych eval accomplishes what exactly?

GAT_00: Igor Jakovsky: I shouldn't have to have a psych eval to exercise a constitutional right.

If you can pass it, what's the harm? Are you saying that your absolute right is worth these deaths?

FirstNationalBastard: It would just be an extra day and another weak layer of bullshiat to go through.

So do it right.

Woolwine: Because guns are quicker and more efficient. You use the easiest method possible.

So deny her a gun. She'll still use the easiest method possible, right? Except she hadn't used it. Knives were always accessible. She didn't use them. So, assuming that, then preventing her from getting a gun would have prevented these two unnecessary deaths.

Guns are quicker and more efficient than knives. There's an old saying, "Never bring a sword to a gunfight". Knives are the next easiest method.

We take away the gun, she'll just use the knife instead. Take away the knife, she'll strangle her kids, etc. It doesn't matter HOW she did it, it only matters that she did it.

Igor Jakovsky: and if I was a mental case (assuming I had not been admitted for treatment in the past) I could lie my ass off and still pass it.

Now we're firmly in Internet Tough Guy territory.

Woolwine: We take away the gun, she'll just use the knife instead.

And yet you keep ignoring that she could have done that all along and didn't.

GAT_00: Igor Jakovsky: and if I was a mental case (assuming I had not been admitted for treatment in the past) I could lie my ass off and still pass it.

Now we're firmly in Internet Tough Guy territory.

Woolwine: We take away the gun, she'll just use the knife instead.

And yet you keep ignoring that she could have done that all along and didn't.

Because at this point, it doesn't matter what weapon she used, all that matters is that she murdered her two children.

Woolwine: Because at this point, it doesn't matter what weapon she used, all that matters is that she murdered her two children.

And there we go, now we move the goalposts. Now it doesn't matter that she used the easiest weapon, but she was going to do it all along. That's a whole new argument.

GAT_00: Woolwine: Because at this point, it doesn't matter what weapon she used, all that matters is that she murdered her two children.

And there we go, now we move the goalposts. Now it doesn't matter that she used the easiest weapon, but she was going to do it all along. That's a whole new argument.

Why would it matter what weapon was used? It's not like there weren't any murders before guns were invented. Taking away the guns won't work, the violence will still be the same. Doesn't matter how the violence happens, just that it happens. It's not like the gun is accused, the person is accused.

GAT_00 [TotalFark] Quote 2011-01-29 03:37:37 PM
Igor Jakovsky: and if I was a mental case (assuming I had not been admitted for treatment in the past) I could lie my ass off and still pass it.

Now we're firmly in Internet Tough Guy territory.

Wut? Saying I could lie on a psych eval is all it takes to get the ITG label these days? I need to re-evaluate my internet standards.

Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

It's to show you that these things happen among the rich white elites, too.

GAT_00: Woolwine: Because at this point, it doesn't matter what weapon she used, all that matters is that she murdered her two children.

And there we go, now we move the goalposts. Now it doesn't matter that she used the easiest weapon, but she was going to do it all along. That's a whole new argument.

Also,

they are coming to take me away pic

that looks like a stroke to me

It's the patriarchy's fault.

Wow, this is incredibly sad and f**ked up.
There will be no snark from me on this one, just a sad face :(

I bet she's on Wellbutrin, or Effexor. That shiat will make you crazy.

That'll learn em.

That is so sad and horrific.

Where is the hero tag?

Isn't there an endorsement of this sort of thing in the bible?

/the brick testament is a reliable source, why do you ask?

GAT_00: ... So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?


You mean crazy people? Because guns to fire themselves.

/Doesn't own a gun
//Has no problem with those that do, to each their own.

How sad. Just... wow.

I know that crimes will happen regardless of the economy, however, it just seems that anytime the economy has a downturn, you start seeing the crazy people who take out their own families.

Aaaand.... kids at that age do get mouthy. They need discipline, not a bullet to the head (or body, or wherever they were shot; I couldn't bring myself to read in-depth about this one).

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

I'm sorry you hate the US Constitution but the freedoms it entails are not going away because of fear mongers such as yourself. She likely would have proven completely sane when she bought the gun which could have been years or decades ago. No one who knew her or were around her (neighbors) said they suspected a thing. It's not often you have to worry about protecting someone from being murdered by their own mother.

Nice of you to use this tragedy as opportunity to push your politics though. Think about what you did here when you see someone you hate pushing their politics at a completely inappropriate time (like Fred Phelps) and try to understand why you should try not to be like them.

GAT_00: Why were these two allowed to happen?

Probably has something to do with God.

I wish more parents would do this ... yours in particular

CornFedIowan: Also, "Calyx"? WTF?

You've never met a girl named Calyx before? I've met a few. And no they weren't strippers.

Like every parent hasn't felt like shooting their kids in the head. They shoulda' got off her fu@n' lawn!

Hope she gets the death penalty.

ultraholland: That'll learn em.

Noon by the dock...

Woolwine: GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what who actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

FTFY. Taking away the guns doesn't change the motive in which people kill. It only changes the method.


And the sheer level of brutality involved.

sectorg: It's not often you have to worry about protecting someone from being murdered by their own mother.

Well on the level of family members mothers are more likely to kill their own children than fathers are. Of course perhaps we should be more worried about mental health issues in the US, instead of trying to shame those who have them and doing all sorts of other stuff that decreases the chances someone will seek help even when they can get it.

yep, that's a woman who looks like she's got a lotta belief in jesus

Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

Came here to bring that up, with the same reaction.

CygnusDarius: As for the kids... I hope they're in a better place.

not even souls can escape Florida

Britney Spear's Speculum: She named her daughter Calyx. What other warning signs did authorities need?

Your link is not helpful. Calyx is a botanical term referring to the whorl of sepals at the base of a flower.

Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

Rich people are crazy.

/enjoy those guns Republicans

The look on her face as she's being led away gives me the chills.

Igor Jakovsky: If you are saying that all gun purchasers should be forced to have a psych evaluation, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I shouldn't have to have a psych eval to exercise a constitutional right.

Psych evaluations were considered at one point before getting the right to vote, but Republicans shot the idea down hard, since the majority of the working poor who've they've somehow convinced to fight to defend banks and insurance companies are clinically insane.

First thing I thought of, but can't find any pics of Barbara Fitts.

FirstNationalBastard:

And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But everyone is issued with bare hands. Not everyone has guns. So how many people are killed with a bare hand or with a knife or bat per day in your country?

CygnusDarius [recently expired TotalFark] Quote 2011-01-29 04:24:16 PM
ultraholland: CygnusDarius: As for the kids... I hope they're in a better place.

not even souls can escape Florida

So you're telling me the zombies shall rise in Florida?.

We already have zombies here, especially in Boca Raton, however most were originally from NY/NJ

GAT_00: But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

Speaking of hypotheticals...

pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation

/facepalm

GAT_00: Also,

Woolwine: A gun is harmless unless it is loaded and someone pulls the trigger.

I'm pretty sure it hurts to get pistol whipped.

It could also hurt to get beat with a shoe, do we outlaw those too?

She must be an atheist - the Bible says to use stones.

/still atrocious

swahnhennessy: Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

Came here to bring that up, with the same reaction.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. It just seems so completely out of place, not to mention unimportant in the face of what happened.

ZAZ: Too bad, the girl was cute.

That's awfully superficial and insensitive. Is the boy's death any less tragic? If the girl was ugly, would it be any less tragic?

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

Half of those gun deaths are suicides. A good portion of the rest are gang-on-gang violence.

Automobiles kill ~42,000 a year.

Ban cars, then we can talk.

LadySusan: I vote for crazy on this one. And I don't mean to expose my gender or my age here but perhaps she was made a bit crazier than normal by menopause. A friend told me once about going completely nutso when the city hadn't replaced the broken garbage can on the agreed upon day. Fortunately, only some groceries were injured in the ensuing tantrum. My friend increased her meds as a result and is now (this week) fine.

This is most likely the case, or that she was on anti-depressants and tried to go cold-turkey off of them, or even some horrible drug interaction. It's not only sad that these children are dead, but it's also sad that this woman is automatically demonized for something that could be attributed to extreme hormonal imbalance, medication issues, or what have you. Imagine what it would be like for her if one of these was the case and they got straightened out and "sane" again.

Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.


I thought that too.

GAT_00:
You know, I don't like guns either, but you're being farking ridiculous. Congratulations, I have no respect for you.

More importantly, this might be in the running for one of the most horrible things I've read in a while. What the hell man? You don't just do that shiat. And I can't imagine what the husband must be going through....I'm sure he's a good man. It would be horrible enough to have your children murdered by some random stranger, but to find out it was your wife and their mother? I can't even imagine, I can't begin to fathom the pain he must be feeling.

Really, this is just a piteous situation. Those poor kids were innocent, and so was their father. Now the children are dead for no damn reason, and Col. Schenecker is left holding the bag. How can he even bear to look at her again? How can he feel realizing that he's MARRIED to someone so truly horrible? As I said, I just feel sadness and pity for the victims of this awful situation.

FirstNationalBastard: sectorg:
I'm sorry you hate the US Constitution but the freedoms it entails are not going away because of fear mongers such as yourself. She likely would have proven completely sane when she bought the gun which could have been years or decades ago.

FTFA:

With a .38-caliber revolver she bought five days before

However, that doesn't mean she couldn't have passed a psych test for a gun.

Interesting. Read an article on this from another new source before I saw it here so didn't read this one. Would like to hear from the gun store who solid but she still would have to pass a background check. I still stand by my original statement. There is a difference between being insane and not knowing right from wrong and then there's people with functional mental illnesses which wouldn't even be perceivable by any but the closest to her. She could also just be a plain old evil biatch. She premeditated the whole thing and planned to off herself which seems to indicate she fully grasped the scope of what she was about to do.

Good god...I can't believe all the people that are pulling out soapboxes for this story. Jesus. This isn't about gun violence, it's about violence. If she was depressed it's quite possible that she just, had a psychotic break. The fact that she killed the daughter clearly shows not pre-meditation but someone who literally had disconnected and was following the plans that an irrational mind set. Then she just sat waiting because well, she tuned out.

\Sad
\\The husband will have a very tough time. I hope he's strong.

It's everyone's fault because guns are available

It's her mom's fault for spanking her when she was a child

It's because she was under pressure for having a mortgage that she could never pay off because of the economic downturn

It's everyone's fault because there is not enough psychological treatment available.

It's her husband's fault because he didn't support her enough.

It's not her fault because she was going through menopause.

amidoingitright.jpg

God forbid we just blame her because she did something that should get her the death penalty.

Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

Maybe their big debt is more than they can afford, and that's what contributed to the psycho's snap? Losing almost $200k in just three years is pretty steep.

Je5tEr: Automobiles kill ~42,000 a year.

Ban cars, then we can talk.

While I'm not advocating banning guns by any stretch of the imagination, I always hate that argument. Auto deaths are almost always accidents. Gun deaths... not so much.

craxyd: Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.


I thought that too.

I don't know, maybe it was part of her motive. Maybe the family is in debt up to its eyeballs. How much does a Colonel working in intel make? Enough to afford a house that's depreciated almost half its value? I really don't know, maybe their finances were fine, but perhaps it had something to do with it.

Mom shoots and kills her two teen children because "they were mouthy"

Not any more.

GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?


That would be crazy people. Thank you Mr. Reagan, and those who succeeded you in office.
Deaths are deaths. They are every bit as dead if killed by a gun, knife, bat, car, wrench, fire.

sugahboy: swahnhennessy: Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

Came here to bring that up, with the same reaction.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. It just seems so completely out of place, not to mention unimportant in the face of what happened.

It could be a roundabout way of saying that financial difficulties could have been a factor but they haven't been able to corroborate it. The home has lost a serious amount of value.

some_beer_drinker:

i know dozens of ways to kill you with my bare hands.

So thats OK then - issue everyone with guns. That'll make the world a safer place.

Bad Christian!
You're supposed to stone your children for mouthing off.

/Ticket please.

Bigdogdaddy: It's everyone's fault because guns are available

It's her mom's fault for spanking her when she was a child

It's because she was under pressure for having a mortgage that she could never pay off because of the economic downturn

It's everyone's fault because there is not enough psychological treatment available.

It's her husband's fault because he didn't support her enough.

It's not her fault because she was going through menopause.

amidoingitright.jpg

God forbid we just blame her because she did something that should get her the death penalty.

There are people in WAY worse situations who have not done this.

The lady is a psycho and should be tortured to death.

"Hi what kind of handgun is best for stopping the screaming demon voices coming from my children's heads?"

"Oh you want this .38. Get the pearl handle all the ladies like that."

"Will it stop the voices?"

"Only if you're a good shot. That will be $350. Do you need some ammo with that?"

/America, fnck yeah!

Wodan11: ZAZ: Too bad, the girl was cute.

That's awfully superficial and insensitive. Is the boy's death any less tragic? If the girl was ugly, would it be any less tragic?

The boy was cute as well. HTH.

Tingle007: Where is the hero tag?

Florida tag wins, but I think she deserves a parent of the year nomination.

Joines: Bigdogdaddy: It's everyone's fault because guns are available

It's her mom's fault for spanking her when she was a child

It's because she was under pressure for having a mortgage that she could never pay off because of the economic downturn

It's everyone's fault because there is not enough psychological treatment available.

It's her husband's fault because he didn't support her enough.

It's not her fault because she was going through menopause.

amidoingitright.jpg

God forbid we just blame her because she did something that should get her the death penalty.

There are people in WAY worse situations who have not done this.

The lady is a psycho and should be tortured to death.

I don't agree with torture, but she should be put down like an animal.

Stanfan114: "Hi what kind of handgun is best for stopping the screaming demon voices coming from my children's heads?"

"Oh you want this .38. Get the pearl handle all the ladies like that."

"Will it stop the voices?"

"Only if you're a good shot. That will be $350. Do you need some ammo with that?"

/America, fnck yeah!

Try an experiment. Go try to buy a gun and open your conversation with the gun dealer with the exact first sentence you wrote and report the results.

My kid talks back and is 'mouthy'. I usually fight off the urge to put a bullet in her skull and just send her to her room.

Am I the only one wondering if maybe these "angels" were actually mouthy little f***s. I mean, have you ever been to a mall and just wanted to take some of these mouthy little pissants out back and shoot them for being so rude and disrepectful to people they don't even know? I by no means am justifying shooting them, I didn't know them, but there are just some worthless people in the world that need a bullet in the head and they don't have to be adults for someone to recognize it.

This planet is waaaay over populated as it is, maybe this is just a way for the "crazy" people to limit their influence on the world. I mean, removing themselves from the gene-pool and all.

theknuckler_33: Je5tEr: Automobiles kill ~42,000 a year.

Ban cars, then we can talk.

While I'm not advocating banning guns by any stretch of the imagination, I always hate that argument. Auto deaths are almost always accidents. Gun deaths... not so much.

A "gun" is a relatively simple, 600 or so year old technology, that can be manufactured by a person of average intelligence and mechanical ability with tools and supplies more primitive than what can currently be found in your local Lowes or Home Depot.

Which is incidentally where you can also purchase some VERY effective weapons in the form of axes, chainsaws and all manner of gardening and woodworking implements. As well as poisons and torches.

Traditionally, women seem to kill by poisoning or similar means.

You are sick of the automobile accident argument, I'm sick of people blaming the tools for the actions of their wielder.

Anyone remember the mother who drove her SUV into a lake with her kids locked inside?

This is kinda creepy as I just finished a short story where a single mom is planning to do just that. Eek

theknuckler_33:

Try an experiment. Go try to buy a gun and open your conversation with the gun dealer with the exact first sentence you wrote and report the results.

Or try buying a gun with that intent, but keep your big mouth shut. And report the results.

GAT_00: Also,

Woolwine: A gun is harmless unless it is loaded and someone pulls the trigger.

I'm pretty sure it hurts to get pistol whipped.

Hurts when you drop one on your toe, too.

Je5tEr:

Anyone remember the mother who drove her SUV into a lake with her kids locked inside?

No.
How many times a day does that happen?

Nice to see the lady is wearing American made DuPont Tyvek. There's nothing better than free advertising in a free enterprise economy.

GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

How many die from automobile wrecks you idiot. Lets ban all motor vehicles, etc., etc., etc.

My kids are often "mouthy" but I would never consider killing 'em to shut 'em up.

What a tragedy.

/Also wondered why they included the sell price/market value of the family home in the story. Unless the defense plans on using it as a reason.

lunkhed: Je5tEr:

Anyone remember the mother who drove her SUV into a lake with her kids locked inside?

No.
How many times a day does that happen?

About the same number of times a day that ANY MOTHER kills all over her children BY WHATEVER MEANS.

How many times a year do we see stories of mothers who kill their children?

Many of them are just drowned in the bathtub.

FirstNationalBastard: GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

Yeah, I don't know why she used a gun in the first place! It would be so much easier for a 50 year old woman to just strangle two healthy teenagers! And going through that long half-second of anguish and conflict involved in pulling a trigger when she could have just clubbed them five or ten times each.

Look, man- I'm a proud supporter of the second amendment.
But to ignore the simple facts that easier killing methods lower the mental and physical bars to killing, increase the opportunities for killing, and thus over time inevitably increase the number of incidents and the body count, just makes you look like a stupid, lying asshole.

I guess without guns, there would have been 60 million people stabbed with spears and swords or strangled in WWI and WWII. Cause you know they would have done it anyway, even with their bare hands- the availability of lethal and easy to use weapons had nothing to do with it! And of course, there would be just as many armed robberies, home invasions, and gang murders, because it's every bit as easy to physically subdue a person and beat or stab them to death as it is to pull a trigger from yards away and run.

Moron.

Cole is getting lonely at Lowell, and Anthony's trial hasn't even started. The though of an eventual companion must perk her up a bit.

Bigdogdaddy: It's everyone's fault because guns are available

It's her mom's fault for spanking her when she was a child

It's because she was under pressure for having a mortgage that she could never pay off because of the economic downturn

It's everyone's RONALD REAGAN'S fault because there is not enough psychological treatment available.

It's her husband's fault because he didn't support her enough.

It's not her fault because she was going through menopause.

amidoingitright.jpg

God forbid we just blame her because she did something that should get her the death penalty.

FTFY.

/the bastard with no Limbic System screwed us all

FirstNationalBastard: GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

Wrong, guns making killing so easy that people kill with them when without them they wouldn't be able to. This is why having a gun in the house dramatically increases your chance of committing suicide. It's a stupid lie to say people would just use knives or baseball bats, these things require a measure of skill.

Je5tEr: theknuckler_33: Je5tEr: Automobiles kill ~42,000 a year.

Ban cars, then we can talk.

While I'm not advocating banning guns by any stretch of the imagination, I always hate that argument. Auto deaths are almost always accidents. Gun deaths... not so much.

A "gun" is a relatively simple, 600 or so year old technology, that can be manufactured by a person of average intelligence and mechanical ability with tools and supplies more primitive than what can currently be found in your local Lowes or Home Depot.

Which is incidentally where you can also purchase some VERY effective weapons in the form of axes, chainsaws and all manner of gardening and woodworking implements. As well as poisons and torches.

Traditionally, women seem to kill by poisoning or similar means.

You are sick of the automobile accident argument, I'm sick of people blaming the tools for the actions of their wielder.

Anyone remember the mother who drove her SUV into a lake with her kids locked inside?

Like I said, I'm not arguing for a ban at all. I'm pro gun. My only point is that a car (and all of those things you mentioned) are designed to be used for purposes other than killing people. Handguns have one purpose.

While I'm not on their side, I can admit that gun ban advocates are not saying that banning guns will eliminate people killing people. They are just saying that they believe it will eliminate one of the easiest ways to do so. Some people who might be able to pull a trigger might not be able to slit someone's neck or strangle them.

I guess my point is that I don't see the value in pointing out the other ways people die (or can be killed) in defending gun rights.

gimmeasammich: My kids are often "mouthy" but I would never consider killing 'em to shut 'em up.

What a tragedy.

/Also wondered why they included the sell price/market value of the family home in the story. Unless the defense plans on using it as a reason.

The house is gonna be for sale soon, so why not inform the speculators!

Smokey the Bare: HMS_Blinkin: craxyd: Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.


I thought that too.

I don't know, maybe it was part of her motive. Maybe the family is in debt up to its eyeballs. How much does a Colonel working in intel make? Enough to afford a house that's depreciated almost half its value? I really don't know, maybe their finances were fine, but perhaps it had something to do with it.

An O6 in Tampa makes 122,244 a year in base pay (taxable) and 29,916 in Basic Allowance for Housing (non-taxable). He was deployed so was have a good portion of his pay tax free and was getting another 700 or so in incentives. I don't think money was an issue here.

/this guy makes in 2 1/2 months what I do in a year

It's not the mortgage - though it might be the marriage.
One detail that really sticks out for me is the information she was in a serious car crash about a month ago.

If she wasn't suicidal then, it might be that she suffered traumatic brain injury causing her to act out aggressively and irrationally.

I just can't get the poor Dad out of my mind. All my crotch gobblins grew up and I lost the tax write off a little at a time, but this guy has it happen all at once. At least it's a new year. Can't you still file married if the old lady is in the slammer? That would be a double whammy if he couldn't.

El_Maestro: Isn't there an endorsement of this sort of thing in the bible?

/the brick testament is a reliable source, why do you ask?

Yes, by biblical rules you are supposed to kill children who disrespect their parents. Yet another reason I am not a Christian.

Woolwine: GAT_00: Woolwine: Because at this point, it doesn't matter what weapon she used, all that matters is that she murdered her two children.

And there we go, now we move the goalposts. Now it doesn't matter that she used the easiest weapon, but she was going to do it all along. That's a whole new argument.

Also,

Not really, you never had a point to miss- unless you actually count your incredibly wrong, stupid-assed idea that easy to use, highly lethal weapons somehow don't make killing easier, and that everyone who shoots someone would certainly have killed their victims some other way if they hadn't had a gun.

Jesus christ, is it dumbfark shiathead day today, or what?

Je5tEr: the same number of times a day that ANY MOTHER kills all over her children

no drip pan or anything?

CornFedIowan: Also, "Calyx"? WTF?

An unusual name, to be sure, although that's part of why I actually like it. The other reason is because I think it sounds nice. Maybe I'm odd, but there you have it.

Well, you know, if your father's a high-level military spy, and you're a mouthy kid, well, maybe sometimes National Security protocols call for the ol' "flip the mind-control murder switch on the mom" maneuver.


Ghastly: Luxury!

ok I laughed at that.

One Bad Apple: sugahboy: swahnhennessy: Sybarite: The Scheneckers paid $448,000 for their 3,300-square-foot home at 16305 Royal Park Court in April 2008, according to property records, which also list the current market value at about $260,000.

What a bizarre thing to include in this story.

Came here to bring that up, with the same reaction.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. It just seems so completely out of place, not to mention unimportant in the face of what happened.

It seemed to me like free advertising for recently vacated real estate.

/A little paint and some carpet steaming and viola'



;)

/such a sad story

gimmeasammich: My kids are often "mouthy" but I would never consider killing 'em to shut 'em up.

What a tragedy.

/Also wondered why they included the sell price/market value of the family home in the story. Unless the defense plans on using it as a reason.

Smacking is adequate usually.

Je5tEr: About the same number of times a day that ANY MOTHER kills all over her children BY WHATEVER MEANS.

I'm trying to be a dick, but I don't figure that any mother has killed all of her kids more than once in a day.

theknuckler_33: Stanfan114: "Hi what kind of handgun is best for stopping the screaming demon voices coming from my children's heads?"

"Oh you want this .38. Get the pearl handle all the ladies like that."

"Will it stop the voices?"

"Only if you're a good shot. That will be $350. Do you need some ammo with that?"

/America, fnck yeah!

Try an experiment. Go try to buy a gun and open your conversation with the gun dealer with the exact first sentence you wrote and report the results.

Yes I'm sure she and Jared Lautner seemed perfectly normal when they were buying their harmless guns.

In fact, Lautner probably would have gotten just as high a body count with a knife, yep.

Americans are the most pig headed, stupid motherfarkers on the planet when it comes to guns.

FirstNationalBastard: Salt Lick Steady: Je5tEr: About the same number of times a day that ANY MOTHER kills all over her children BY WHATEVER MEANS.

I'm trying to be a dick, but I don't figure that any mother has killed all of her kids more than once in a day.

What if they're Zombie Children?

Well then I suppose he would have a point, if he gets rid of the "by whatever means" nonsense.

Room mate decided to go off his meds this last week so getting a kick etc.

/not really getting a kick, this is very tragic
//Things have been getting pretty weird around here, removed the firing pins from all of my guns and locked them up just to be sure.

FirstNationalBastard: They're coming to take her away? Ho ho, hee hee, ha ha? To the funny farm? Where life is beautiful all the time and she'll be
happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take her away, ha-haaa?

Yes, to the happy home, with trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes and they're coming to take her away, ha-haa, and I hope she fries on the electric chair. The evil biatch. Christ, if she didn't want to be a mom anymore she could have put them up for adoption, or filed for divorce, sold the half million dollar mansion and took half and left the kids with grandma. It's better than dead isn't it?

Time to drag out Ole Sparky.

Rubberband Girl: who is clearly unstable

You have excellent hindsight. What is it, like 20/20?

sectorg: GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

I'm sorry you hate the US Constitution but the freedoms it entails are not going away because of fear mongers such as yourself. She likely would have proven completely sane when she bought the gun which could have been years or decades ago. No one who knew her or were around her (neighbors) said they suspected a thing. It's not often you have to worry about protecting someone from being murdered by their own mother.

Nice of you to use this tragedy as opportunity to push your politics though. Think about what you did here when you see someone you hate pushing their politics at a completely inappropriate time (like Fred Phelps) and try to understand why you should try not to be like them.

well, at least when apparently liberal folks do it, they are actually honestly addressing real issues related to the tragedy, asking simply that people try to learn something from the painful scene at hand.

When non-liberal folks like modern republicans do it, they take a much larger tragedy, say something like 9/11, and use it as an excuse to restrict FAR MORE liberties than handgun rights, subvert the constitution almost entirely instead of one issue contained within the interpretation of one amendment, and also use it as an excuse to rile up racism and warmongering so they can make billions of dollars completely at taxpayer expense.
The nominally insensitive political sins of gun-control advocates are so small as to disappear in comparison. Yet somehow still worthy of your high and mighty disdain, as if anybody gives a shiat.

So maybe YOU should take this opportunity to think about what YOU did here, and ask yourself why you feel the need to be a smug little biatch-ass whiner, you stupid piece of shiat.

The real tragedy here is that this just HAD to be turned into yet another "gun grabber" thread.

I think it's funny how fast the thread went from...

"Aww, that's sad. Now this is why people shouldn't have guns."
"You're right, that is sad. BUT this is why you're argument is dumb."

10 posts later.

"But those kids blahblahblah guns are evil yaddayadda..."
"WTF you talking about? yaddayadda guns aren't evil, people are blahblahblah And besides, what kids... oh."


Seriously, I burst out laughing seeing how fast people forget why they're arguing.
Ahh fark, always good to know that people don't matter, the opinions do.

No need to point out the obvious... but somebody's gonna anyway. I'll just say, "Where else was I supposed to bring it up?"

You know, I don't see how I could ever even THINK of doing something like that to my kids. if they were THAT lippy I may give 'em a good whuuuupin' to put them in their place, but killing them?? Geez...

stiletto_the_wise: The real tragedy here is that this just HAD to be turned into yet another "gun grabber" thread.

Why not? Why are insane people allowed access to guns in the United States anyway? Price of freedom?

stiletto_the_wise: The real tragedy here is that this just HAD to be turned into yet another "gun grabber" thread.

These are among the worst threads on Fark.

Stanfan114: Americans are the most pig headed, stupid motherfarkers on the planet when it comes to guns.

You know what is pig-headed and stupid? Thinking that every crazy person is walking around blathering like a lunatic 24 hours a day. If you had even a tiny understanding about the breadth of mental illness, you would realize that millions of people can appear totally normal, even under a psychological evaluation (especially the totally perfunctory kind that would almost certainly be implemented to be required to buy a firearm), pretty much most of the time. Hindsight is 20-20. Thinking that some kind of psychological evaluation would have prevented Laughner or this woman from getting their gun is an exercise in futility BECAUSE it is totally farking ludicrous to think they went into the gun store asking if the gun would help get rid of the farking voices in their head.

This was not a psychotic break, a reaction for a mediation, or some hormonal thing.

She bought a gun five days before and wrote out a detailed plan. She had it in the car within reach when she was driving. She shot her son twice in the head. Then she had to park the car, turn it off, get out, go into the house, up the stairs, and to her daughter's room, where she shot her in the head, then in the face.

That's not a mental illness, that's evil in the purest form.

Let me put it another way: my neighbor invited me in his home to show me his gun collection, which includes the same handgun Lautner used to shoot all those people in AZ, and an AK47. My neighbor thinks that people in the neighborhood are out to get him, and he told me he is going to die soon in a shootout with these people.

What the fark am I supposed to do with somebody like that? I want to move now.

Clearly the WRONG PEOPLE are getting their hands on guns, that the laws are not working, and people are dying because of it. How can anyone without a head full of AIDS not see the logic of this?

Rubberband Girl: Think about it - guns offer a detachment


Have you ever actually fired a gun? Have you ever even touched a gun, or are you just talking out your ass?

Let me tell you, anybody who handles a gun carelessly would have to also be capable of waving around a sword or knife carelessly, or jabbing with a hypodermic, or splashing around a poison, without caring. You can't touch a loaded gun without being well aware of the damage it can do, unless you are retarded, a baby, or psychotic.

If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

"Honor your mother and father that your days may be long on this earth".

Je5tEr: GAT_00: FirstNationalBastard: And remember that, if she didn't use a gun, she would have maybe stabbed them with a kitchen knife, or beaten them to death with a baseball bat, or her bare hands, and we'd be discussing why fists, guns, and kitchen knives aren't registered because the tool used to kill is always to blame, not the crazy motherfarker using it.

But it wasn't. It was her gun. Plus the deaths caused by fists, knives and baseball bats don't come close to equaling the deaths caused every year by gun violence. So let's focus on what actually is doing the killing and not pointless hypotheticals, shall we?

internutthead: What if it was her husband's pistol?

It wasn't, so the point is moot isn't it?

Half of those gun deaths are suicides. A good portion of the rest are gang-on-gang violence.

Automobiles kill ~42,000 a year.

Ban cars, then we can talk.

YOU'RE RIGHT! I heard Flush Limbaugh say the same thing yesterday on the radio while I was riding my handgun to work. I'll get to hear his show everyday next week while I'm on vacation- we're going to load the family up in the Winchester and go to the Grand Canyon.


JUMPING JESUS FARKFACE ON A JELLY ROLL! I sure am glad I've got to go BBQ some sirloin and sausages in a few minutes, the farking fumes of retard in here are really starting to get to me.

theknuckler_33: Stanfan114: Americans are the most pig headed, stupid motherfarkers on the planet when it comes to guns.

You know what is pig-headed and stupid? Thinking that every crazy person is walking around blathering like a lunatic 24 hours a day. If you had even a tiny understanding about the breadth of mental illness, you would realize that millions of people can appear totally normal, even under a psychological evaluation (especially the totally perfunctory kind that would almost certainly be implemented to be required to buy a firearm), pretty much most of the time. Hindsight is 20-20. Thinking that some kind of psychological evaluation would have prevented Laughner or this woman from getting their gun is an exercise in futility BECAUSE it is totally farking ludicrous to think they went into the gun store asking if the gun would help get rid of the farking voices in their head.

Have you heard Lautner talk? He could not string two sentences together without sounding like a nutjob.

And yes, there SHOULD be a mental health check before allowing anyone to buy a gun. Just make it part of the background check. And to claim this is impossible is bullshiat of the highest order.

Why would you be against sane gun laws that would keep weapons out of the hands of people like this woman and Lautner? Are you and idiot?

GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun automobile purchases are negligible. Think again if these two multiple needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she most drivers was are clearly not in her their right mind. Think again about the NRA car dealers which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons vehicles, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 More than 30K people die pointlessly every year from a gun an automobile in this country. Why were these two countless others allowed to happen?

****citation provided****

Link (new window)

We need car control. Now.

WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?

Crazy + Easy access to guns = this.

clowncar on fire: GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun automobile purchases are negligible. Think again if these two multiple needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she most drivers was are clearly not in her their right mind. Think again about the NRA car dealers which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons vehicles, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 More than 30K people die pointlessly every year from a gun an automobile in this country. Why were these two countless others allowed to happen?

****citation provided****

Link (new window)

We need car control. Now.

Apples and oranges.

Besides, if every American got up in the morning, and instead of getting in their car and driving to work, took a gun and shot it into the air for 30 minutes straight your statistics might change.

Beginning to see how mind-numbingly stupid your post was? I hope so.

Portugal. The Man: WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?

Crazy + Easy access to guns = this.

Agreed.

Do you think Charles Whitman could have gotten the body count he achieved with rocks? What an idiotic argument.

ese_guey: The look on her face as she's being led away gives me the chills.

I'll be seeing that look in my nightmares this evening. I've seen that look before. The very first thing it reminded me of:
(the right).



May the father find whatever solace and understanding he can grasp and reach. May the childrens' souls reach paradise. May the mother receive the mental aid she so very blatantly obviously needs and then find a cell for the rest of her natural born life. I believe the death penalty would be too good for her. She should have to attempt to live with the knowledge of what she's done every second of every day for 40 years.

Stanfan114: Why not? Why are insane people allowed access to guns in the United States anyway?

Keep trying to politicize the story by focusing on an irrelevant detail: The weapon. Why not focus on one of the many other inanimate objects that were peripheral to the story?

She killed one of them in a car. Why was she allowed access to a car?? She wouldn't have been able to kill him in a car if she had no access to cars!!

She killed the other in front of a COMPUTER! Why was she allowed to have a computer?? Without a computer, she wouldn't have been able to kill in the presence of a computer!

Stanfan114: Have you heard Lautner talk? He could not string two sentences together without sounding like a nutjob.

And yes, there SHOULD be a mental health check before allowing anyone to buy a gun. Just make it part of the background check. And to claim this is impossible is bullshiat of the highest order.

Why would you be against sane gun laws that would keep weapons out of the hands of people like this woman and Lautner? Are you and idiot?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or something? Perhaps a sign of some psychological problem. I never said I was against it. I said that many (most) mentally ill people can appear totally sane most of the time. Yes, I've read Laughner's writings (not Lautner), that does not reflect the way he would appear in a casual encounter at a retail outlet. You think he spoke in those pseudo-logical statements all the time? WTF? I'm saying that whatever 'test' you want to put in place wouldn't necessarily have prevented him (or this woman) from getting their gun. Like I said, you think they walked in talking about demon voices and still got their guns. I'm saying that is farking retarded. Are you able to comprehend this simple concept. Crazy people appear normal most of the time. Get it? The one's that DON'T appear normal most of the time are usually street people or in institutions already because, you know, it is so farking obvious that are crazy!!!!

2wolves: "Schenecker's husband Parker is a colonel in U.S. Army intelligence and is in Qatar.

In the military for 28 years, he is assigned to U.S. Central Command, where he works in the intelligence directorate, said Centcom Lt. Col. Michael T. Lawhorn."

Too long on her own.

More bodies on the war pile.

THIS.

clowncar on fire: GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun automobile purchases are negligible. Think again if these two multiple needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she most drivers was are clearly not in her their right mind. Think again about the NRA car dealers which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons vehicles, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 More than 30K people die pointlessly every year from a gun an automobile in this country. Why were these two countless others allowed to happen?

****citation provided****

Link (new window)

We need car control. Now.

Dumbasses with death machines, the lot of them.

Portugal. The Man: WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?


Why, perhaps she thought she needed to make a fashion statement. How the fark do I know what the crazy biatch was thinking?

The point is, if she could not have purchased a gun, she would have used a knife, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Or driven the car into a lake, or held them underwater in the bathtub. Or taken them to a cult church to be rolled up in rugs and sat on till their lungs collapsed. Because she was crazy and wanted to murder. Those persons who are crazy and want to murder may find other methods even of they don't have access to guns.

Meanwhile, sane mothers, who also have access to guns and the ability to purchase them, somehow manage not to buy guns and kill children. How do they manage to do that?

clowncar on fire: GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun automobile purchases are negligible. Think again if these two multiple needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she most drivers was are clearly not in her their right mind. Think again about the NRA car dealers which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons vehicles, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 More than 30K people die pointlessly every year from a gun an automobile in this country. Why were these two countless others allowed to happen?

We need car control. Now.



We have it. Liscening, insurance etc. It does not elimanate car deaths, but I believe it limits them.

In her defense, the kids were being real assholes.

First word out of my mouth after reading the "they were mouthy" part: "Wow." 0_o
Girlfriend then reads article over my shoulder. First word out of her mouth: "Wow." o_0

/csb

theknuckler_33: Stanfan114: Have you heard Lautner talk? He could not string two sentences together without sounding like a nutjob.

And yes, there SHOULD be a mental health check before allowing anyone to buy a gun. Just make it part of the background check. And to claim this is impossible is bullshiat of the highest order.

Why would you be against sane gun laws that would keep weapons out of the hands of people like this woman and Lautner? Are you and idiot?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or something? Perhaps a sign of some psychological problem. I never said I was against it. I said that many (most) mentally ill people can appear totally sane most of the time. Yes, I've read Laughner's writings (not Lautner), that does not reflect the way he would appear in a casual encounter at a retail outlet. You think he spoke in those pseudo-logical statements all the time? WTF? I'm saying that whatever 'test' you want to put in place wouldn't necessarily have prevented him (or this woman) from getting their gun. Like I said, you think they walked in talking about demon voices and still got their guns. I'm saying that is farking retarded. Are you able to comprehend this simple concept. Crazy people appear normal most of the time. Get it? The one's that DON'T appear normal most of the time are usually street people or in institutions already because, you know, it is so farking obvious that are crazy!!!!

Background checks. Background checks. Background checks. Background checks. Background checks. Background checks. Background checks. Background checks. Background checks.

Get it? Let me post it again. Background checks. Have a history of paranoia or simple depression? No gun for you. How hard was that? Would you be against something like that? Would you support the NRA if they were against such a simple, effective way to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of the insane?

Let me put it this way. If your doctor knows you have depression, they will typically not give you enough of any drug to overdose on because of liability. Now guns are the same thing, with the added bonus the mentally ill person can also kill other people, JUST LIKE IN THE ARTICLE.

stiletto_the_wise
You're a moron.

Wouldn't surprise me if her husband decides to kill himself.

I know I would.

GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

You think they'd be able to keep guns out of the house of a member of the military? Really?

Britney Spear's Speculum: She named her daughter Calyx. What other warning signs did authorities need?

Is that like a stripper's name? In ancient Rome?

"Schenecker's husband Parker is a colonel in U.S. Army intelligence and is in Qatar.

In the military for 28 years, he is assigned to U.S. Central Command, where he works in the intelligence directorate"

Explains it all. She was prohibited from having any sort of social life at all, due to her husband's career.

Britney Spear's Speculum: She named her daughter Calyx. What other warning signs did authorities need?

Calyx means "coat". Blau means "blue". Yeah.

2wolves: "Schenecker's husband Parker is a colonel in U.S. Army intelligence and is in Qatar.

In the military for 28 years, he is assigned to U.S. Central Command, where he works in the intelligence directorate, said Centcom Lt. Col. Michael T. Lawhorn."

Too long on her own.

More bodies on the war pile.

He's stationed in Tampa and is only in Qatar for a few days.
Try again.

WeenerGord: Portugal. The Man: WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?


Why, perhaps she thought she needed to make a fashion statement. How the fark do I know what the crazy biatch was thinking?

The point is, if she could not have purchased a gun, she would have used a knife, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Or driven the car into a lake, or held them underwater in the bathtub. Or taken them to a cult church to be rolled up in rugs and sat on till their lungs collapsed. Because she was crazy and wanted to murder. Those persons who are crazy and want to murder may find other methods even of they don't have access to guns.

Meanwhile, sane mothers, who also have access to guns and the ability to purchase them, somehow manage not to buy guns and kill children. How do they manage to do that?

I'm not going to argue that crazy people won't find a way do damage with whatever is available. My problem is that we have a over-aggressive mentality in the US and it lends itself to scenarios where people are presented with a problem and because of our mentality, one of the answers is to pick up a gun (because they are readily available) and blow the problem away.

WeenerGord: Portugal. The Man: WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?


Why, perhaps she thought she needed to make a fashion statement. How the fark do I know what the crazy biatch was thinking?

The point is, if she could not have purchased a gun, she would have used a knife, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Or driven the car into a lake, or held them underwater in the bathtub. Or taken them to a cult church to be rolled up in rugs and sat on till their lungs collapsed. Because she was crazy and wanted to murder. Those persons who are crazy and want to murder may find other methods even of they don't have access to guns.

Meanwhile, sane mothers, who also have access to guns and the ability to purchase them, somehow manage not to buy guns and kill children. How do they manage to do that?

These are some weak arguements, I expect better. I think we can agree that the woman should not have had access to a firearm, will anyone suggest a way that she might have been prevented from getting her hands on one?

Outlaw Thirds: GAT_00: Just two of the ~80 people every day killed by a gun in this country. Remember that when you wonder why things like this have to happen. Remember that the restrictions and checks on gun purchase are negligible. Think again if these two needless, pointless deaths could have been prevented with something as simple as a psychological evaluation, because she was clearly not in her right mind. Think again about the NRA which will ignore this and protest time and time again against logical checks on people buying weapons, checks that you will almost certainly pass should you buy one yourself. 30,000 people die pointlessly every year from a gun in this country. Why were these two allowed to happen?

You think they'd be able to keep guns out of the house of a member of the military? Really?

Gun safe.

How hard was that? Oh that's right the NRA is against anything that keep Amurrrrricans from gittin their pop guns when the scary black man tries to break in (never mind that the vast majority of gun death are family members shooting other family member... GOODNESS JUST LIKE IN THIS ARTICLE! What a coincidence.

Valiente: Britney Spear's Speculum: She named her daughter Calyx. What other warning signs did authorities need?

Is that like a stripper's name? In ancient Rome?

No, that would be Meretrix.

Rubberband Girl: Woolwine - Because guns are quicker and more efficient. You use the easiest method possible.


I'm guessing guns aren't just easier because they require less physical effort to use than a knife or a baseball bat, but they're mentally easier as well.

Think about it - guns offer a detachment you wouldn't have with a sharp object or a cudgel. You have to get really close to a person to use one of those and aim fairly well in order for them to be effective. With a firearm, you could be several yards away OR you could be fairly close and not have perfect aim and still do some damage.

That's probably what bothers me - any wimp with poor eyesight could maim or kill someone if they had a gun, thereby greatly reducing their target's risk of survival. On top of that, you've got people like this mother who is clearly unstable but there was little (if anything) in her way of getting the gun.

Would you feel better if you were killed by a body builder with 20/20 vision? Did they earn it with their training? Is it somehow more fulfilling if you have your neck broke by a ninja or you skull beat in with a rock? Or is just assumed that that the weak were just plain born to be preyed upon by the strong and that's their place in life? Wimps should never be capable of having a choice to even the playing field I guess.

Sarcasm aside, it's my opinion that modern civilization would simply not be possible without the incredible power the firearm gives to the average person who would likely have been nothing more than a tool to be used and exploited by those stronger than them or, thanks to birth, just had more influence and resources. The gun is the ultimate equalizer. I've gone on this rant before but I don't think it can be said enough times when people want to bring up ideas about curtailing rights in this area. There are downsides but it's my opinion that they don't outway the benefit.

Also, I can understand stories like this messing with people's heads but how often have you had to try and dodge bullets in your life? If you're like most people, that number is 0 and I would recommend moving on with your life. Not saying it's ok to let people who sell guns to clearly insane people off the hook even though I haven't read anything regarding this case where someone thought she was unstable. There are laws against that but anti-gun people seem to exaggerate these things badly. There are almost as many guns in the US as people and that's not even counting military and police. If anything, gun deaths in the US are incredibly low considering how many millions of Americans handle a firearm on any given day. You'd think deaths from just accidents alone would make totals much higher. Even then the questions arises. Is doing something about that a right the government has to impose? Most interpretations of the constitution say they don't.

/tl;dr

Silly_Sot: Explains it all. She was prohibited from having any sort of social life at all


There are plenty of people in the world with little or no social life who don't kill their children. Probably many of them right here on FARK.

vlakorados: First word out of my mouth after reading the "they were mouthy" part: "Wow." 0_o
Girlfriend then reads article over my shoulder. First word out of her mouth: "Wow." o_0

/csb

I first read that as "monthly" and I was thinking that "PMS" must be hell enough to make you kill your kids.

Tophersky: GAT_00: Also,

Woolwine: A gun is harmless unless it is loaded and someone pulls the trigger.

I'm pretty sure it hurts to get pistol whipped.

It could also hurt to get beat with a shoe, do we outlaw those too?

A nuke is harmless unless it is armed and detonated. A person is harmless unless it is awake. Fire is harmless when you're not on fire.

Stanfan114: Gun safe.

How hard was that? Oh that's right the NRA is against anything that keep Amurrrrricans from gittin their pop guns when the scary black ... [garble garble garble]

I wasn't aware that the NRA is "against gun safes". In fact, their store sells them.

pete1729: WeenerGord: Portugal. The Man: WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?


Why, perhaps she thought she needed to make a fashion statement. How the fark do I know what the crazy biatch was thinking?

The point is, if she could not have purchased a gun, she would have used a knife, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Or driven the car into a lake, or held them underwater in the bathtub. Or taken them to a cult church to be rolled up in rugs and sat on till their lungs collapsed. Because she was crazy and wanted to murder. Those persons who are crazy and want to murder may find other methods even of they don't have access to guns.

Meanwhile, sane mothers, who also have access to guns and the ability to purchase them, somehow manage not to buy guns and kill children. How do they manage to do that?

These are some weak arguements, I expect better. I think we can agree that the woman should not have had access to a firearm, will anyone suggest a way that she might have been prevented from getting her hands on one?

I'm a 'leftist' and I know that preventing access to weapons ultimately isn't going to solve the problem, people will find a way. But we have to ask why violence is more often becoming the solution that people reach for when a personal crisis arises.

Mister Peejay: FirstNationalBastard:
Crazy people, violent people...

Is there a reason you're demonizing one of the tools they use, and not the others?

Without guns, do you expect murder to cease, or someone to pick up a bat or a knife to kill?


No, but the people they attack may not be strong enough to fight back.

That is why you should never trust anybody who wants to ban guns. Some of them are doing it because they're scared of guns, some of them are doing it because they want to ensure that the weak cannot protect themselves, and all of them are not to be trusted.

If you are not scared of guns, you are an idiot. The rest of what you posted is pure paranoia. The government is not going to come into your home and put your mama in a FEMA death camp, no matter what Papa Rush tells you.

You know who is not to be trusted? Armed nutjobs like you.

2wolves: "Schenecker's husband Parker is a colonel in U.S. Army intelligence and is in Qatar.

In the military for 28 years, he is assigned to U.S. Central Command, where he works in the intelligence directorate, said Centcom Lt. Col. Michael T. Lawhorn."

Too long on her own.

More bodies on the war pile.

And Sarah Palin and Tea Baggers, amirite?

How about this? If you sell a gun to someone who, within a week, month or some other proscribed period, commits murder with it, you, the seller, bear some criminal liability.

The sad part is losing the two children. The female deserves to be called anything but "Mother". She didnot want that title. Also mentioning the price paid for the house verses what it was worth. Could that be the refection of the father as well? We now know the female was stupid...... All the stupid female had to do was to open the front door and walk and walk and keep on walking if she was so unhappy. I pray she does not get away with killing these two angels, whether she's crazy or not!

This is really a tragedy. Had something like this happen late last year in a town just south of here - mother walked in, shot her teenaged daughter and killed herself. Left a note explaining her actions, apologized for her act and requested that her pets be adopted out as a group.

After months of investigation, it was determined that the woman had been in deep financial straits because of her husband's death from cancer a couple of years before and she'd been unable to sell the house to pay the bills.

I have no idea what caused this woman to go off the deep end. It could be a combination of factors: depression, hormonal imbalances, an undiagnosed closed head injury from the aforementioned auto accident, marital issues, finances or a combination of factors.

For all we know, it may be the only reason this woman is still alive is because she ran out of ammunition in the gun.

This is a tragedy, pure and simple. It is a time to feel sympathy for the surviving family and to mourn the lost potential of the children. It is not the time to hop on soapboxes and espouse your particular views on gun control, auto accident statistics or any other such BS.

stiletto_the_wise: Stanfan114: Gun safe.

How hard was that? Oh that's right the NRA is against anything that keep Amurrrrricans from gittin their pop guns when the scary black ... [garble garble garble]

I wasn't aware that the NRA is "against gun safes". In fact, their store sells them.

My bad I meant trigger locks. The gun lobby has been trying to keep them from becoming mandatory, despite accidental shootings of children with careless parents.

pete1729: How about this? If you sell a gun to someone who, within a week, month or some other proscribed period, commits murder with it, you, the seller, bear some criminal liability.

Only if the seller did not act within prudent rules and laws set down.

But yes, why is nobody asking where Lautner got his weapon. Or his quasi-legal long magazines.

Outlaw Thirds: Calyx means "coat".

I thought it was part of a plant.

pete1729: I think we can agree that the woman should not have had access to a firearm

You can think that, but you will be wrong. In future she may very well be banned from legally purchasing or owning a firearm, if she ever leaves prison alive. But before she did this there may not have been a reason to stop her from buying a gun.

sectorg: it's my opinion that modern civilization would simply not be possible without the incredible power the firearm gives to the average person

Well said!

Mugato: Mister Peejay: That is why you should never trust anybody who wants to ban guns. Some of them are doing it because they're scared of guns, some of them are doing it because they want to ensure that the weak cannot protect themselves, and all of them are not to be trusted.

That's a new one.

Whose minds are you people going to change with this long ass gun control argument? Might as well argue about abortion and evolution while you're at it. They're all equally masturbatory.

I'm venting. I can't scream at people IRL for being utter morons so I do it here.

Portugal. The Man: pete1729: WeenerGord: Portugal. The Man: WeenerGord:
If she didn't have access to a gun she could have beaten their brains out with a hammer. You going to ban all hammers? She wanted to kill her own children, and that is the sick part of the story, not the weapon she used to do it.

It seems that five days before she murdered her kids, she didn't have access to a gun. I'm sure she had access to knives, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Why didn't she use those instead?


Why, perhaps she thought she needed to make a fashion statement. How the fark do I know what the crazy biatch was thinking?

The point is, if she could not have purchased a gun, she would have used a knife, a hammer, a rock or some other bludgeoning instrument. Or driven the car into a lake, or held them underwater in the bathtub. Or taken them to a cult church to be rolled up in rugs and sat on till their lungs collapsed. Because she was crazy and wanted to murder. Those persons who are crazy and want to murder may find other methods even of they don't have access to guns.

Meanwhile, sane mothers, who also have access to guns and the ability to purchase them, somehow manage not to buy guns and kill children. How do they manage to do that?

These are some weak arguements, I expect better. I think we can agree that the woman should not have had access to a firearm, will anyone suggest a way that she might have been prevented from getting her hands on one?

I'm a 'leftist' and I know that preventing access to weapons ultimately isn't going to solve the problem, people will find a way. But we have to ask why violence is more often becoming the solution that people reach for when a personal crisis arises.

I qualify as left of center, and I have no interest in preventing access. However, I support a mandatory firearms course. I own no guns and yet have better gun ettiquette than a good percentage of gun owners I've met.

WeenerGord: Outlaw Thirds: Calyx means "coat".

I thought it was part of a plant.

pete1729: I think we can agree that the woman should not have had access to a firearm

You can think that, but you will be wrong. In future she may very well be banned from legally purchasing or owning a firearm, if she ever leaves prison alive. But before she did this there may not have been a reason to stop her from buying a gun.

sectorg: it's my opinion that modern civilization would simply not be possible without the incredible power the firearm gives to the average person

Well said!

Except you know, something as simple as a mental health check. But you are right that would take an act of God all the planets in alignment before something as monumentally unachievable as a 5 minute online background check could be done.

And there have been greater civilizations than ours in the past that went tens of thousands of years without guns, so that statement is simply idiotic with zero basis in fact.

Guns put a woman on the same ground as a 350 lb rapist.

Guns allow us to think and not focus pushups and situps as self defense.

You can sit at home and read a book safely because of guns.