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(BBSpot)   Star Trek pundit blasted at convention for controversial theory that a star destroyer could whoop the Enterprise E   (bbspot.com ) divider line
    More: Satire  
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19073 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2003 at 1:12 PM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



201 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2003-07-15 09:51:13 PM  
What, a chime in from Wil but no answer? You're the resident expert man?!?! *chuckle*

Seriously though, the shows/movies were fun to watch. Just never got much into them beyond that. I still like catching them every once in a while.

I worry about anyone who dresses up like a character in a movie or tv show who doesn't get paid for it. And paid well.
 
2003-07-15 10:06:49 PM  
Aias: I was so farking pissed when they took the Missle Boat and Defender out of X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. Paid damn good money for that game and didn't even get 2 of my favorite Imperial fighters. Hell, you had to pay for the expansion pack just to get the B-Wing. GRRR at LucasArts!
 
OBB
2003-07-15 10:07:50 PM  
tibis - Star Destroyers don't destroy stars, much in the same way Starships don't ship stars.
 
OBB
2003-07-15 10:09:32 PM  
I was a big fan of Tie Fighter, and I also really liked X-Wing Alliance, possibly because I got to fly through the Death Star II
 
2003-07-15 10:31:27 PM  
Star Destroyers don't destroy stars, much in the same way Starships don't ship stars.

BWAHAHHAHHAHAHHAH

OBB: X-Wing Alliance definately had its share of different ships to fly, by far the most far-reaching variety you could jump into and blast the hell out of someone online with.
 
2003-07-15 10:32:53 PM  
20 bucks says the 38 year old guy lives at home with his Mom and Dad and still is a virgin.........
 
2003-07-15 10:56:15 PM  
Nano Nano.

I think Mork from Ork would kick all of their butts, simply because they would see him and just start tearing up the room in laughter.

Um... wasn't Star Wars set "long long ago" and "Star Trek" in the year 2400 or so? Where's Buck Rogers when you really need him.
 
2003-07-15 11:32:52 PM  
20 bucks says aGodinmyownworld doesn't know what the hell satire means.
 
2003-07-15 11:34:07 PM  
 
2003-07-15 11:36:20 PM  
Wesley could win in any fight cuz he went and saw a dead body by the railroad tracks. And to end all geek fights, or start a new one.... UNICRON would stomp a deathstar, borg cube, enterprise, stardestroyer, all of them. Unless Lt. Barkley or Lando or some other tool opened up the matrix, that would make it tie.
 
2003-07-16 12:17:36 AM  
The satire in the article has come true in this thread. You are all a bunch of Fukin losers.
 
2003-07-16 12:28:59 AM  
Yep, video games, music, movies, Internet none of these causes a person to seek out violence as much as them being tormented by another person. Unfortunately, its so easy to blame groups behind these previously mentioned forms of media that most people dont bother to look at the fact that maybe, some or most of the victims had it coming to them. That they got exactly what they deserved.
 
2003-07-16 12:33:12 AM  
Dam, wrong post.
Sorry.
Ignore my last post, perhaps if he mod could delete it or something.

/Never gonna be viewing or make comments on fark with multiple windows opened.
 
2003-07-16 12:55:57 AM  
A single Orbital frame could take 'em both.


/uber-geek flame bait.
 
2003-07-16 12:58:51 AM  
From a post a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far way, on a server that was ohh so slow slow slow...

04-25-03 03:44:08 PM Yooyooyoo
FARK FARK FARK. Where are all the Star Trek fans? HELLO???? Jeri Ryan, 7 of 9 so much hotter than tech tv lady. Although her brain (Morgans) is quite appealing.

I'd have to go with 7 of 9. Getting horizontal with a Borg would be way cool, I wonder what those nanoprobes would do... hmmm.....

Ohh and about the star wars vs star trek debate, there is none. Totally different worlds. Now if you ask the question who would win in a fight? Star Trek hands down.

Star Wars has Laser level weapons (like the "Turbo Lasers" on the death star). Star Trek uses weapons like anti-matter encased in torpedos. The Death Star exploded and it was a big boom. A couple of Star Trek ships exploded and they ripped the fabric of space time. Different power levels? I think so, Star Trek wins.

Another indicator of technology level would be speed of space craft. Going to "light speed" in Star Wars is a major ordeal. Remember the Millenium Falcon having to go through all those calculations in order to "jump to light speed" so as to avoid going through Stars or planets? In Star Trek they just jump to warp anytime they want, no hesitation.
Warp speed in Star Trek is so much faster than going the speed of light as they do in Star Wars. Exponentially faster. Again, Star Trek whips Star Wars ASS technologically.

The Death Star had the ability to destroy a planet. Big Deal. In Star Trek they can collapse stars. A couple Star Trek Quantumn torpedos can destroy entire planets.

Heck Star Trek ships (metaphasic shielding) can even go into the middle of Stars and hang out there, unlike Star Wars ships.

But the question of who could whip whos ass can conclusively be answered by this one fight.

R2D2+C3P0 (Star Wars) vs. Data (Star Trek)

No one can dispute that Data would whoop their asses in EVERY conceivable scenario.

My work here is done.
 
wil [TotalFark]
2003-07-16 01:02:32 AM  
Ah well, hot trekkie girls...such a rare bird.

Uhh . . . that's hot trekkie girl. I've met her. Her name is Swan, and she's a pr0nstar.

I'm serious.
 
2003-07-16 01:34:23 AM  
The Liberator would take them both out. Avon: "Zen, Clear neutron blasters for firing."
 
2003-07-16 01:44:21 AM  
wil

Her name is Swan, and she's a pr0nstar

Is this her?

[image from madtv.com too old to be available]
 
2003-07-16 01:50:36 AM  
R2D2 would extract some sort of multitool from within itself and give data the shiv.

More to the point, one of my pals is dating a former Land's End model who, I discovered, used to play Dungeons & Dracons back in the 2nd edition days. She knew about THAC0. I seriously entertained thoughts of killing my friend and wearing his skin like a suit.
 
2003-07-16 02:32:32 AM  
I like Star Trek a lot, but have always been partial to Star Wars. That said, The Star Wars movies focus very little on technical details. It's fantasy, not sci-fi. Whereas in Star Trek there are sometimes whole episodes that rely on the existence of some pseudo-scientific concept. There are those in the Star Wars "expanded universe" that have tried to focus on the technology in Star Wars, but I feel it is unecessary and not part of the spirit of the world. I'm right-brained and don't care about that stuff like the left-brained Trekkies/Trekkers do. The Star Wars geek in me imagines a Star Destroyer creaming the Enterprise, but it is not because of some hypothetical technical mumbo-jumbo. I'll be honest, it's just because I like it better. Isn't that all that really matters anyhow?
 
2003-07-16 02:44:26 AM  
Hmmm.. this may be a bit dated - I have much of this taking up space in my head...

Enterprise wins. Reason = shields in Star Trek are not static, they modulate at varying frequencies (anyone who has read/seen a Borg episode knows). The lasers used in Star Wars, as far as I know, emit at a constant frequency (OK I've never seen a pulse laser in Star Wars, but lets say they do have them - they would still emit at a constant frequency, albiet in burst).

The shields in Star Trek also modulate along the surface of the ship randomly (depending on what pattern you use). When a static laser enounters a shield that changes modulation, it can only disrupt one frequency at a time (possibly why old style Klingon disruptors now officially suck ass), so minimal damage, if any, is done. You can see that all kinds of neat shield tricks have evolved since the introduction of the Borg. I like the Borg a lot. They keep things moving along :)

And as this is the Empires chief trick, I don't forsee them attempting to take on a constellation class heavy cruiser anytime soon. It would be suicide.

As for Jedi Mind Tricks, the original mind trick was invented by the Vulcans. Something explained in books, never deployed in movies/series - Vulcans can do a lot more than they let on. For the sake of peace, they hold back much. Reality = Vulcans much more dangerous than Jedi. Kathleen Sky explains this well.
 
2003-07-16 03:08:32 AM  
read some comics and you will see Star Destroyer Eclipse model > all including deathstar ( laser on tip that = 1/3 death star laser
 
2003-07-16 06:29:52 AM  
All right, that's enough. Everybody out of the basement! C'mon! Get moving! That means all of you ... Clem, SRFireside, XaLEv, mtman900, Linuxthess, brentmisado ... yeah, I see you hiding behind the boiler, Brent ... kasarul, faethe, ieldanth ... c'mon, I want all of you outside! Right now! It's time that you all got some fresh air and sunshine. Here's some gloves and a bat and a ball. Go get some exercise. Have some healthy fun for a change. Get out of this moldy basement. It'll do you all some good.

C'mon, move it! Don't make me come down there!
 
2003-07-16 07:36:52 AM  
?????

Excuse me? You lot are bashing "geeks", "nerds" and "dorks" when a lot of you spend far too much time on a computer reading Fark?

Sorry, by being a fanboy of ANY website you are automatically classed as a geek or a dork. Have a nice day.

Oh, and methinks Q could whup Darth Vader anytime.
 
2003-07-16 09:48:15 AM  
"Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not an actor!
 
2003-07-16 10:29:33 AM  
Good guys win and bad guys lose... that's my flavor argument as well! But just for the sake of "did I miss something in the thread?" argument...
'Jedi' powers are actually illustrated in "The Return of the Jedi" as covering a HUGE range. The Emperor was in communication and some form of control with coordinating his commanders right up until Darth chucked him into the firey abyss (hmmm... ironic eh?). After the Emperor was 'destroyed' his military visibly started to break down and lose the ability to fight properly. So those Anti-Jedi mind trick arguments really shouldn't be based on range to or sight of target.
It would also seem to me that the Betazoid empath on the Enterprise's bridge would easilly be able to tell that this mental manipulation is in 'force' over hundreds or thousands of individuals from one great and evil source. Thus sparking the bleeding heart of Picard into realizing that destroying a whole vast crew, of normal citizens of the Empire who are only dong thier job as dictated by an evil mastermind with absolute tyranical control, would be immoral.
Finally it would all come down to an away mission where the various plans would indicate that their only chance is to send a very small and elite crew over to the source of the evil presence and stop it, thus freeing the Empire of it's evil root. Now this is the part that matters because we have seen in every Star Trek episode that it mattered in transporting close enough to the enemy to get the job done is no problem. They will figure SOMETHING out to get it done. Also we have seen in every Star Wars episode that it is exactly these kinds of personal encounters with the big-baddies that are the only successful way to fight the Empire on any worthwhile scale. That is a formula for success that the Enterprise crew certainly will have going for them since they are all very experienced at this kind of thing and Luke was just a farm-boy with good genes... and a "moisture farmer" at that!
Seems to me though that in the background of the action you would have the Enterprise flying around doing tricks and tearing up the Star Destroyer like so much Borg Cube until the Emperor pulled a trick that we know works in Star Trek also... mentally taking control of the Enterprise. That always happens you know. Those gel-pack memory living cell computer things are bound to have Mitochlorians in them (the Force bugs) and thus subject to the Emperor's wrath. It'd be a classic struggle on the Enterprise of surperior technology being slowly suffocated to death while the villain gloats about it while Picard and Data stroll up with phasers and turn the Emperor into pudding after failing to reason with him. Somehow... you know it... we all know it... well any of us Geeks know it that is! =)
By the way, I must remind you if I can that this debate is supposed to be about the Enterprise and the Star Destroyer but nothing in either of the movies or TV shows featuring those ships is EVER really about the gadgets or technology. It's about the people and the struggles and the hope... so sorry foks but the good guys have to win!
 
2003-07-16 10:41:37 AM  
**rolling on the basement floor**

/Thanks Kong!
 
2003-07-16 10:54:24 AM  
I'll take the Nadesico or possibly the Durandal.
 
2003-07-16 10:56:33 AM  
What about the Mon Cal cruisers? Since it's come down to a "good guys" win, what about good vs. good? I think the Mon Cal's would stand a good chance against the Enterprise, heck, it'd probably win, seeing as they can take down Star Destroyers. Beside, if it was Rebels vs. Federation, the rebels would just send Kyle Katarn in to spy and sabotae stuff and it would be all over. I mean, he is the guy that stole the orginial death star plans, the Federation would be nothing. Especially since he's gone all Jedi now.
 
2003-07-16 10:56:35 AM  
yooyooyoo:

Star Wars has Laser level weapons (like the "Turbo Lasers" on the death star). Star Trek uses weapons like anti-matter encased in torpedos. The Death Star exploded and it was a big boom. A couple of Star Trek ships exploded and they ripped the fabric of space time. Different power levels? I think so, Star Trek wins.


And I suppose a modern M-16A2 is superior to a medieval catapult, eh? I mean, the M-16 is a highly sophisticated piece of machinery, and the catapult is just a big rock thrower. The level of technology is irrelevant, what matters is the quantifiable power of that technology. Star Wars laser weapons (which are not LASERs, as you have conveniently ignored) have demonstrated and are stated to have vastly higher power than Trek antimatter weapons. So a couple of ships ripped space time. Great. Now quantify the energy required to do that.


Another indicator of technology level would be speed of space craft. Going to "light speed" in Star Wars is a major ordeal. Remember the Millenium Falcon having to go through all those calculations in order to "jump to light speed" so as to avoid going through Stars or planets? In Star Trek they just jump to warp anytime they want, no hesitation.
Warp speed in Star Trek is so much faster than going the speed of light as they do in Star Wars. Exponentially faster. Again, Star Trek whips Star Wars ASS technologically.


SW ships have to do all those calculations because they are going so fast they will not have much time to correct course if something unexpected pops up. Trek ships can jump whenever they want because they don't go fast enough to ram into somehting before anyone can react. I should also mention that the navigational calculations are only required for long journeys, small jumps of a couple of lightyears at most are quite simple. Exponentially faster you say? Explain why it would have taken Voyager, one of the fastest Fed ships, 70 years to cross the galaxy, when SW ships can cross half of their -larger- galaxy in less than a day?

The Death Star had the ability to destroy a planet. Big Deal. In Star Trek they can collapse stars.

SW can do that too. It's called the Sun Crusher, a small fighter-sized craft which can be controlled by one person.

A couple Star Trek Quantumn torpedos can destroy entire planets.

Prove it.

Heck Star Trek ships (metaphasic shielding) can even go into the middle of Stars and hang out there, unlike Star Wars ships.

Lie. Never have they attempted to actually enter a star. They have always stayed in the corona, the star's atmposphere.

TNG Season 6, Ep# 148: "Suspicions"

REYGA: You've all seen my experimental data. The metaphasic shield has been proven.
T'PAN: Forgive my skepticism, Doctor, but your claims are somewhat extravagant. Protect a shuttle within a star's corona? Not even your own government believes it can be done.

TNG Season 6, Ep# 148: "Suspicions"

COMPUTER: Warning. Approaching stellar photosphere. Metaphasic shield at seventy-one percent ...
(Dr. Crusher and Jo'Bril scuffle for the phaser)
COMPUTER: ... Metaphasic shield at fifty-nine percent ...
(Dr. Crusher knocks Jo'Bril down and grabs the phaser)
COMPUTER: Metaphasic shield at thirty-four percent ...


Notice here that their shields are taking damage quite fast as they approach the star's surface.

TNG Season 7, Ep# 153: "Descent Part 2"

BEVERLY: If we had metaphasic shielding, we could enter the sun's corona and the Borg ship wouldn't be able to follow.


Star Destroyers, on the other hand, can sit indefinitely on a star's surface, not just in the corona.

faethe:

Enterprise wins. Reason = shields in Star Trek are not static, they modulate at varying frequencies (anyone who has read/seen a Borg episode knows). The lasers used in Star Wars, as far as I know, emit at a constant frequency (OK I've never seen a pulse laser in Star Wars, but lets say they do have them - they would still emit at a constant frequency, albiet in burst).


It amuses me how much Trekkies tout this whole frequency thing as an advantage. Tell me, would you consider a bullet proof vest which can block one caliber of bullet effortlessly, but allow another caliber to pass unimpeded, to be a quality defense? In order to have a frequency, the shields must oscillate, and that means it's constantly turning on and off. Star Wars shields, on the other hand, have no such weakness. They block what comes at them, regardless of its phase, frequency or anything else of that nature. All that matters is power and energy.

The whole phase/frequency thing is irrelevant anyway, because SW weapons are very powerful, and that energy must go somewhere. You can play all the neat little tricks you want, but when you get hit with more energy than you can handle, you are dead.
 
2003-07-16 11:07:06 AM  
XaLEv - I disagree with you on the fact that the emperor would not have seen the vong as a treat just like he didn't see the rebels as one. The only one who would have been able to put up a better fight would have been Thrawn, mainly because he knew they were comming. And even then he didn't expect total victory. If Luke and Mara hadn't killed the clone Thrawn it might have been adverted.

And in response the the Eclipes model of SD..

Name/Model#
Eclipse-class Super Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer
Kuat Drive Yards
Combat Designation
Capital Starship
Length
17500 meters
Weapons
550 Laser Cannons
500 Turbolaser Batteries
75 Ion Cannons
100 Tractor Beam Projectors
10 Gravity-well Projectors
1 Axial Superlaser

Designed alongside the Executor-class, but much more massive and powerful, there were only two Eclipse-class Star Destroyers ever produced, the Eclipse and Eclipse II. Both served the Emperor during his reincarnation, and both were destroyed with the Emperor. No more have been constructed.

The first Eclipse-class Star Destroyer, the Eclipse was used as the flagship for the reborn Emperor Palpatine. It was destroyed when the Force storm Palpatine sent to destroy Luke Skywalker turned on Palaptine himself. The storm consumed Palpatine and eradicated the Eclipse.

The Eclipse II was built by the second reincarnation of Emperor Palpatine, following the loss of his first ship, the Eclipse. Palpatine took the Eclipse II to Onderon, in an attempt to obtain the body of Anakin Solo for clones. A New Republic assault team, led by Chewbacca and Kam Solusar, infiltrated the ship and reprogrammed its navigation systems. They fled the ship as it jumped into hyperspace, bound for Byss. When it emerged from hyperspace, the Eclipse II crashed into the new Galaxy Gun, which began to fires its projectiles in its death throes. One projectile was launched successfully, and it ploughed into the planet Byss, destroying it and all of the Imperial ships in orbit around it, including the Eclipse II. The New Republic assault team barely escaped.
 
2003-07-16 11:19:59 AM  
star destroyers sheild generators are on the outside and can be blown the up, trek wins
 
2003-07-16 11:48:44 AM  
O god somebody help me...I'm dorking out!
 
2003-07-16 01:13:30 PM  
Actually this whole Star Wars/Star Trek controversy will be resolved in an upcoming movie. Check out the banner at the top of this issue of ENN (Electronic News Network) - be sure to click "restart with sound" on the banner itself. ;)

http://tinyurl.com/h4i6
 
2003-07-16 01:44:41 PM  
Queen's Guy, I find it highly unlikely (read: impossible) that such a movie will ever be made. In fact that whole website you linked to looks bogus.
 
2003-07-16 01:53:55 PM  
2003-07-15 08:58:03 PM RubensHakkamacher
I'll never forgive Lucas for explaining the Force. Idiot.

I completely agree. He took away something that was magical that I remember from my childhood and replaced it with "mitichlorians." The Force was supposed to be mystical, wonderous, and if you had a pure heart and believed, you could master The Force too (sounds a little like pixie dust, from Peter Pan, I know). Lucas changed it to a chemical imbalance, like having too much magnesium in your diet. Thanks a lot George.
 
2003-07-16 02:34:11 PM  
-i think it would depend on who the captain of each ship was.

based on "scientific" claims...the federation would kick the empires ass.

no transporters for the empire.

they have never been used to their fullest potential.
 
2003-07-16 03:50:26 PM  
"I completely agree. He took away something that was magical that I remember from my childhood and replaced it with "mitichlorians." The Force was supposed to be mystical, wonderous, and if you had a pure heart and believed, you could master The Force too (sounds a little like pixie dust, from Peter Pan, I know). Lucas changed it to a chemical imbalance, like having too much magnesium in your diet. Thanks a lot George."

He didn't change anything about the Force at all. People have this widespread misconception that midi-chlorians ARE the Force or that they create it. We already know that this isn't true because the Force was already explained in ANH. "it is an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together". And we also know from the original movies that not everybody could use or was in tune to the Force. Wherever you got the notion that having a pure heart and believing was all it took is beyond me. Midi-chlorians are simply mediums between the Force and those who weild it. What other reason would there be for genetic predisposition to Force sensitivity? Has to be something in the blood, right? I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion or say that you should like it. Just don't cry foul that it was 'changed' when it never was.
 
2003-07-16 03:59:21 PM  
Ok, my two cents:

Why are Jedi powers being considered in this arguement? Are Jedi powers connected to a Star Destroyer? Assuming that they are not, than what you are left with are the two, physical, ships.

The same goes for any extraordinary benefits/powers/etc. from outside sources. Any argument saying that a SD would win because it has Darth Vader on it is completely baseless for the sake of the pure argument.

My two cents... personally, I think the Enterprise would do circles around a Star Destroyer, but that's just my own view.
 
2003-07-16 04:50:57 PM  
azazyel: The Emperor doesn't need to see them as a threat. All that is required is that the Vong show up and start stepping on the Empire's toes. Once that happens, someone will come down on them, probably an admiral or Moff out to make a name. If they fail, the Vong will be seen as a threat and will be stepped on. By the time of ROTJ, the Empire already had 25000 ISDs alone, not to mention the other millions of ships required to maintain Imperial power throughout the galaxy. With their industrial capacity, they would have many thousands more ISDs as well as dozens of Executors, Eclipses and Sovereigns by the time the Vong showed up, and maybe even multiple Death Stars and Galaxy Guns. Then there is the theory that Palpatine did forsee the Vong invasion, but I don't know how valid that is.

CoRDS

star destroyers sheild generators are on the outside and can be blown the up, trek wins

Bauer

-i think it would depend on who the captain of each ship was.

based on "scientific" claims...the federation would kick the empires ass.

no transporters for the empire.

they have never been used to their fullest potential.


Jebus, it's like you guys aren't even trying. CoRDS, already refuted. Bauer, present these "scientific claims" and show how they support you. Tell us why lacking transporters is a weakness. (also, transporter technology does exist but isn't used, see Magwit's Magic Hoops)
 
2003-07-16 07:33:39 PM  
Ok, I've stopped laughing long enough to comment. Seeing as <gamer geek> I was a Origins a few weeks ago </gamer geek>, the only think I can think of right now is that making a Star Trek vs. Star Wars miniatures game has got to rake in some long green.

Why argue about it when you can actually fight it! It'll make millions, judging by this thread alone.
 
2003-07-16 07:40:53 PM  
Wow, I didn't think people would be sticking up for Star Trek so much. This seems so obvious to me.

Star Destroyer without a contest. It's orders of magnitude more powerful. What seems to confuse people is that Star Destroyers are shown fighting off Mon Calamari cruisers and bomber type fighters (B-Wing and Y-Wing) craft in the movies and are destroyed. This seems to give them a sense of fragility. However, Mon Cal cruisers are extremely powerful ships, as are B and Y-Wing fighters.

The fighters rely on their small sizes to elude the Turbolasers of and ISD. However a Turbolaser hit to either of those fighters, shields or not, would simply vaporize the craft (as Porkins found out). The analogy would be a WWII era battleship trying to shoot down fighters with their 16" guns. True, if the shell hit the plane, it'd be in trouble, but the odds are against it. The level of shielding for the fighters are more appropriate to the close defense weapons that they would face going against an ISD. Because the fighters can concentrate on indefensible or critical areas of the ship, an ISD is still vulnerable to a heavy fighter assault. This isn't as strange as it seems if you consider the WWII analogy; many battleships fell pray to attack aircraft. ISDs therefore rely on their fighter complement to protect them from fighter assaults. The episodes IV-VI show the empire at a somewhat awkward moment, where the introduction of the X-Wing rendered their compliment of TIE fighters largely innefective. A small compliment of X-Wings could take on and neutralize a considerably larger continget of TIEs leaving their escorting ship vulnerable to Y-Wing (and later B-Wing) assaults.

ISDs are shown being brought down rarely in the film. The vast majority shown destroyed occured during the battle of Endor. While the movie shows the ships seemingly destroyed quite simply, one must consider that the ISDs were under heavy Turbolaser bombardment before being finally destroyed. The Super Star Destroyer shown destroyed had the entire firepower of the rebel fleet focused on it for a few minutes before losing control.

Regardless, the weaponry and shielding in the Star Wars universe are generally measured in orders of magnitude greater levels that in the Star Trek Universe. I contend that a B-Wing stands a good chance at taking down the Enterprise. Certainly a squadron of B-Wings. Low power phaser blasts from the Enterprise, the kind that would be required to shoot quickly enough to track a B-Wing, would likely be on a scale that the B-Wing shielding could handle. A high power blast (think 16" guns) coudln't be fired quickly enough to be much of a threat to the Enterprise. The punch that a B-Wing packs, and the fact that its weaponry genrate power on the same order of magnitude of the Enterprise would probably make it a threat.

So take that, you communist pot-smoking Trekkies. I'll see you Enterprise D and raise you a B-Wing.
 
2003-07-16 08:01:04 PM  
In support of Kaeishiwaza, I present this, taken from the Episode 2 Incredible Cross Sections:

Data File
Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering, subsidiary of Kuat Drive Yards (fighter); TransGalMeg Industries Inc. (hyperdrive ring)
Make: Delta-7 /Aethersprite/ light interceptor; Syliure-31 long-range hyperdrive module
Dimensions: length 8m; width 3.92m; depth 1.44m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 12,000 kph
Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 5,000G
Hyperdrive: Class 1.0 (effective range 150,000 light-years)
Armament: 2 dual laser cannons (1 kiloton per shot max.)

Data File
Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering
Make: Firespray-class patrol and attack ship
Dimensions: length 21.5m; wingspan 21.3m; depth (excluding guns) 7.8m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 1,000 kph
Max acceleration (linear, in open space): 2500G
Hyperdrive: class 1.0
Armament: 2 blaster cannons (600 gigaloues per shot); 2 laser cannons (8e12 joules per shot); missile launcher (8e17 joules per shot); minelayer (5e19 joules per shot); other unknown weapons

Data File
Manufacturer: Huppla Pasa Tisc Shipwrights Collective
Make: /Nantex/-class territorial defence starfighter
Dimensions (excluding cockpit bubble): length 9.8m; width 1.9m; depth 2.2m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 20,000 kph
Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 4,500G
Armamnet: 1 laser-cannon turret (1e13 joules per shot)


This shows the level of firepower carried by Star Wars fightercraft.
 
2003-07-16 10:01:31 PM  
Who cares what kind of space junk you're piloting? The Hulk could kick everyone's ass, because the angrier Hulk gets, the stronger he gets. And like most big, over-muscled guys, sci-fi fanatics totally piss him the hell off.
 
2003-07-16 11:06:34 PM  
Kong

I've been outside now most of the day and hace taken my allergy meds. May I go back to the basement again :)

faethe:

Enterprise wins. Reason = shields in Star Trek are not static, they modulate at varying frequencies (anyone who has read/seen a Borg episode knows). The lasers used in Star Wars, as far as I know, emit at a constant frequency (OK I've never seen a pulse laser in Star Wars, but lets say they do have them - they would still emit at a constant frequency, albiet in burst).


It amuses me how much Trekkies tout this whole frequency thing as an advantage. Tell me, would you consider a bullet proof vest which can block one caliber of bullet effortlessly, but allow another caliber to pass unimpeded, to be a quality defense? In order to have a frequency, the shields must oscillate, and that means it's constantly turning on and off. Star Wars shields, on the other hand, have no such weakness. They block what comes at them, regardless of its phase, frequency or anything else of that nature. All that matters is power and energy.

The whole phase/frequency thing is irrelevant anyway, because SW weapons are very powerful, and that energy must go somewhere. You can play all the neat little tricks you want, but when you get hit with more energy than you can handle, you are dead.

Hmmm.. this is true. The way they get around that in Star Trek is not only modulating the frequency of the shields, they also layer the shields. So, layer a through x are modulating at different capacities in region "x" (Oscillating, yes). Lasers are either long or short rays of light (in the case of pulse lasers they are short burst of light). If you are able to "disrupt" the frequency of the light beam being emitted, you can scramble it, weaken it, cause it to break up into shorter rays, and invariably, change their frequency. This is why Klingons originally tried out the "disruptor" method, which is in fact a compact bust of "laser" light, that modulates simultaneously on many frequencies, spectrums, etc., in an attempt to scramble federation shields, and hence, penetrate them.

OK so lets say you get through the shields. Now you have to get through the hull.

The hull of the enterprise is made of a material that alows a current of energy to pass through it (I forget what the hell sort of enerygy this is in particular). As the energy passes through the hull, it reinforces the material the hull is made of. This is so, at subwarp, you can hit a rock and not have it penetrate the hull. If something does penetrate the hull, the hull "heals" itself, as the energy passing through the material intensifies, and causes the hull to "change shape". In other words, it fills itself in. It's best to think of the "skin" of a constellation class cruiser as "fluid" - by controlling the amount of energy passing through the "skin" - you enable the skin to pool together at points where it has been compromised.

Now, of coursethe ships get holes in them, big ones. This is where the "fields" that comprise both the shields and the hull/fabric of the ship, have been stripped away by superior force. Even if you are able to do that in one area, compromise sections of the hull, support towers for the nacelles, etc. you still have the rest of the ship to contend with.

So if in some fashion, a laser can compromise something on the ship, you better bring a lunch, because its going to take all day to trash enough of the ship to disable it to a point where it is unable to withstand more damage.
 
2003-07-16 11:24:59 PM  
OK - my prior post was directed at XaLEv

This is from the link he sited

Notice the common element: in each case (the Tacoma Narrows bridge, the air in your room, the glass), the object has a natural resonant frequency. If you manipulate the object at that frequency, the energy from successive waves will add, and the oscillations will grow until the object is either disrupted (eg- the Tacoma Narrows bridge or the glass) or reaches a point of equilibrium with resistive forces (the air in your room): Successive waveforms add because they are phase-coherent, so they interfere constructively rather than destructively. To illustrate this concept, imagine the act of pushing a child on a swing. If you apply a "push" when the child is at the top of each swing, the next swing will be larger than the one before. But if you apply the "push" at the wrong time, you will be fighting against the natural frequency and the next swing will be smaller than the one before.

This is EXACTLY why the Klingons used "Disruptors" to raise hell with federation shielding - they mess with the frequency of the shields, until they are useless, and hence, and then able to be penetrated. This is also EXACTLY why the federation developed layered field technology - so if by some chance you do loose the first, second, and third layer of shields, you can divert resources to those remaining, while you are simultaneously firing back, and getting the hell out of there. If you look at "Disruptor" style damage, versus other forms of damage - Roddenberry and crew did their best to illustrate how disruptors cause damage within and without the fields. They blow shiat up all over the place...

and who said that the enterprise would be silly enough to use lasers at a moving target that has superior shielding? They use "Photon" torpedos, and in the case of Dreadnaught class vessels, antimatter torpedos, and no, not even a constellation class cruiser has a hope in hell against that.
 
2003-07-16 11:37:23 PM  
I've never heard of this layered shield stuff before. Where's it from?
 
2003-07-17 06:11:43 AM  
And of course John Crichton would just open up a wormhole that connected to the heart of a sun and smoke both their arses like he did with the big-assed Skarran ship(see Farscape, "Infinite Possibilities, Part II: Icarus Abides").
I acknowledge that this is a pretty geeky thread, but being a hard-core 'Scaper, I just couldn't pass up a chance to represent.
 
2003-07-17 08:52:28 AM  
Irishlad78,
>

LOL - you're right. If you look at the date on that website you'll see it's December 31, 2009.

It's a website like CNN to report events in a near-future online international battle exercise. I design/maintain the sites (issues 1-9 so far) and throw in some additional news stories I make up on my own just as a lark for the participants. I did that flash banner about a year ago (?) and thought I'd mentioned it when I read this thread.

ENN#7

But that's not to say I wouldn't love to see this movie actually made someday. :)

Thanks for the comments,

-Steve
 
2003-07-18 03:41:41 PM  
XaLEv - I actually don't think the emperor would have even noticed their existence before they grabbed a decent foothold. The Republic stumbled on them by accident. Plus the emperor would still be battling the rebels and all the dissidents created by Nom Anor. True he could just go around with the death star and blow everything up but remember that the Vong have some pretty neat toys themselves. Hell, the brought and entire moon down on a planet and completely toasted another. Plus, the emperor might have tried for peace, remember the deal he make with the Sri Ruk (the ones who entrenched people into droids). And of course the vong would have played along then killed them.
 
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