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(BBSpot)   Star Trek pundit blasted at convention for controversial theory that a star destroyer could whoop the Enterprise E   (bbspot.com) divider line 201
    More: Satire  
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19065 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2003 at 1:12 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-07-15 02:11:55 PM
A star destroyer? Hell, the Millenium Falcon could take out the Enterprise!

/poking at the Star Trek geeks with a pointy stick
 
2003-07-15 02:18:43 PM
This site will answer all your question:

http://www.merzo.net/

I do believe it's all a question of weight ratios.

/monty python
 
2003-07-15 02:22:56 PM
/Remember Trekker, not trekkie

You say "Trekker" I say "dork"
 
2003-07-15 02:23:28 PM
Ok, I cant believe I am responding to your response

radiofreewill

As you stated, Obi-Wan was able to sense the destruction of Alderran. This can be seen that LARGE disturbances in the force can be SENSED from a far distance. Its questionable if the force can be manipulated to INFLUENCE a person from far away. One also has to consider that the destruction of Alderran was an entire plant being destroyed, which although Vader is the one who is said to have the most control over the force, its unlikely he could have as much of an impact on it as an entire plant being destroyed.

tlenon

YES, I agree that the Lexx could definitely kick some serious butt. No contest, if it was not oh so vary hungry, and Stanley was doing his job, it could take out the Enterprise no problem.
However, I dont think Moya could do much of anything except use Star Burst as a defensive maneuver to run away.
 
2003-07-15 02:30:38 PM
*sigh* there's no help for it.

///FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T READ THIS///

dreadnought right back atcha.

A star destroyer would destroy the Enterprise-E, although it would be more of an even match.

...unlikely Vader could exert all too much influence.

You have obviously never heard of Jedi battle meditation. However, leaving that aside for the moment, what if Vader was to succeed in hailing the Enterprise with a cease-fire offer and a request for negotiations? The weakling federation types would be forced to acquiesce, in which case Vader could show up in the ready room and strangle 'em all.

The shields of empire ships seem not to be too hard to get through.

Whereas the shields of Star Trek ships are indestructible, eh? I don't think you can make any claims for superior shielding technology based on the number of Enterprises they've run through in the movies alone, to say nothing of ships like USS Yamato and USS Stargazer, which picard notwithstanding, was severely damaged by a bunch of Ferengi.

antai mater in a shuttle and remote piloting it in to the shield generator, unless you wish to take a page from Nemesis and just ram the Enterprise into that particular section of the Destroyer.

Antimatter. Say it: anti-matter. Unless you were typing in a curious blend of latin and mongolian, in which case a horde commander mother would indeed be a formidable opponent.

As for weaponry, the Empire seems to outfit its ships with the equivalent of Klingon / Romulan Disrupters. However, the enterprise has Photon torpedoes as well as Quantam

Quantum.

and even perhaps Tri Colbalt torpedoes. It would also have standard Phasers to deal with possible squadrons of tie fighters.

Here we come to the crux of the matter. I view the Enterprise, and indeed all Star Trek ships, as having a rather poor kill record when faced with multiple, swiftly moving opponents. Witness the Yamato's destruction when faced with several smaller, faster Dominion warcraft. Phaser beams don't track quickly enough, and the enterprise doesn't carry enough of them to fend off massed TIEs.

Look at the trends in human naval development. In the 20th century, battleships mounting large guns fulfilling the same functions as the Enterprise's phasers and photon torpedoes were replaced as the main capital ships of serious naval forces due to their ability to project stand-off force over greater distances than a battleship's guns could reach. Similarly, a Star Destroyer or other Star Wars capital ship could stand off all day and pound the Enterprise E with fighter strikes, leaving it crippled and venting bits of crew and atmosphere into the void.

Lastly, my final and most important argument is that geek geek geek, geek geek geek, geekity geek geek geek. Geeking the geek of the geek geek geeker, the geeking can be said to geek all the geek to geek a lot.

I will now go out and shoot myself in the head.

Sincerely,
Far too much geek.

///CONTINUE READING///
 
2003-07-15 02:35:48 PM
Relative sizes from the Starship Dimensions site:



(hope that worked)
 
2003-07-15 02:37:18 PM
Sorry, that should be "replaced by aircraft carriers as the main capital ships..."

Not that you do or should care. But consistency!
 
2003-07-15 02:39:40 PM
Nothing can touch the monolith.

/2001
 
2003-07-15 02:46:34 PM
Please wake me for the 7-of-9 vs. Twi'lek mudwrestling argument to ensue.


Could someone answer the question: is there anyone who could *not* beat Riker in a fistfight? Even Wesley could drop him with a kick in the shins.
 
2003-07-15 02:49:07 PM
I agree with Flammenwerfer,

I must not commit ritual suicide for channeling this sort of geek-dom.
 
2003-07-15 02:57:02 PM
Zack-Morris
What is really FUNNY (or not at all for me), is that being a CS major I have to endure hearing these conversations constantly. As if the body odor and hardcore japanese fanaticism weren't enough, I have to be put through this every day as well.


I'm a CS major too, and what's really weird is that last semester in my java lab, the guys would always argue about who had the coolest car. I (one of about two girls in there) eventually told them that they should shut up about cars and start talking about who had the better computer. One of the more nerdy guys across the room immediately gave his computer's specs. The guys who were talking about the cars however, just looked at me like I was crazy. Thankfully, I don't think their CS majors, I think they just had to take that class for some engineering major.
 
2003-07-15 02:59:24 PM
Pshaw. Done to death. Every reasonable person knows that Star Wars technology beats Star Trek technology in every area.

Have you ever seen a strap-on dildo with variable feedback in the Federation? No.

I rest my case.
 
2003-07-15 03:00:33 PM
Never kissed a girl. Any of them.
 
2003-07-15 03:01:13 PM
Don't lease site of our ultimate goal here - somehow getting it through the moderators head that BBSpot sucks. I sent another satire link in today that was much better, and this gets moved to the main Fark - its link-exchange at its worst.
 
2003-07-15 03:01:19 PM
Don't lose site of our ultimate goal here - somehow getting it through the moderators head that BBSpot sucks. I sent another satire link in today that was much better, and this gets moved to the main Fark - its link-exchange at its worst.
 
2003-07-15 03:02:37 PM
Ditka
 
2003-07-15 03:06:17 PM
DarthBrooks:
Could someone answer the question: is there anyone who could *not* beat Riker in a fistfight? Even Wesley could drop him with a kick in the shins.


What do you mean even Wesley. He was the toughest actual human on that ship! Think about it, after Worf and Data, who got in more fights or kicked more ass than Wesley?

Of course, in the later movies, when Riker spends all his time with Worf, training in the klingon holodeck scenarios, it might be a different story...

/reverts back to normal from long-buried geekdom
 
2003-07-15 03:06:55 PM
If the Last Starfighter used the "Death Blossom" it could take out a Star Destroyer AND the Enterprise!

/Okay, now I'm scaring myself.
 
2003-07-15 03:28:32 PM
Dreadnought

The A-Wing's kamikazee attack was only sucessful because it was truly unexpected. If you notice in Episode IV, Han Solo's seemingly suicidal attack run on the Destroyer caused the admiral to quickly spit out "Shields Up!" as if attacks on the bridge are unoften.

In regards to the attentuation of Force-attacks?
In Episode V, Darth Vader strangled Admiral Piett over a teleconfrenced video hookup. Possibly a conversation taking place galaxies apart.

Oh, and BTW Y-Wings carry photon torpedoes as standard munition asides from their ion cannons.
 
2003-07-15 03:28:57 PM
EatHam- But what if the Star Destroyer was named Dika?
 
2003-07-15 03:37:27 PM
Anybody remember the episode where the Enterprise D was under attck from some guy who had lasers (Yes, the Star Wars ships use lasers, or turbolasers in the case of capital ships). They laughed at him. Like, Picard said, "Lower our shields... in case we want to surrender" and they laughed. So, in conclusion: Star Wars ships probably couldn't pass the shields of the Enterprise. Because a) when things hit the shields of the Enterprise they blow up, but pass through the sheilds of a Star Wars capital ship and b) lasers suck in the Star Trek universe.

Now, if Star Wars ships used phasers, the Executor would dominate the entire federation. That is all.
 
2003-07-15 03:44:56 PM
BritneysSpeculum
Someone, please, assure me that this is in fact just satire because if it's true, it's the saddest thing I have ever read.

That might be the saddest thing I've ever read.
 
2003-07-15 03:48:52 PM
Miket-

Nonono, if you remember from Ep 6, there was a conversation something like this right before the A-Wing, which was out of control, ran into the thing.
"Sir, the sheild is out"
"Intensify forward battery power, I don't want anything coming through"
"Too late!"
(Haven't seen the movie in a while)

Anywho, that is the reason why something could get through. Remember earlier on in the movie, Lando saved the fleet by figuring out that since they were being jammed, the sheild was still up.

"The shields are still up"
"I'm not getting a reading. Are you sure?"
"Yes! All craft, pull up, PULL UP!"

Again, lines are not verbatim.

Also, I want to bring up the point that earlier on in this thread someone was talking about Jedi Battle Meditation... it is pretty cool. A Jedi sits down and meditates, and controls everyone's thoughts, therefore making all of the units much more effective. Sort of like being a dedicated server in real life. This could be very handy if you had a force sensitive person aboard the star ship. In that case, the Jedi would be able to use everyone's mind effectively.

And even if there was no jedi aboard, think of all of the craft that carry photon torpedos. The shields would be destroyed immediately. And, don't forget the awesome power of their lasers which would wreck anyone and anything
 
2003-07-15 03:56:16 PM
This reminds me too much of a "versus" game a couple roommates back in college used to play.

The Terminator vs Johnny 5
Star Destroyer vs Psilon Base ship
Superman vs Captain Marvel
etc.
 
2003-07-15 03:58:29 PM
Is it just me, or when was the last time they sent the Enterprise back into the past. Are we not reminded of the situation of which Star Wars takes place? A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away?
I'm not much for following the Star Trek shows or movies, so I really don't know how the time traveling takes place for the Enterprisers. If they even do it. Hell, help me out here! Did they or didnt they ever time travel in Star Trek???
 
2003-07-15 03:59:26 PM
*sigh* You guys are making even me sad.
 
2003-07-15 04:02:11 PM
miketbj2:
(Yes, the Star Wars ships use lasers, or turbolasers in the case of capital ships)


That must be why they are visible from all directions and travel at distinctly sub-light speeds, and other behaviours which are impossible for LASERs. In any case the whole laser immunity thing is a ridiculous No-Limits fallacy. The photons of a LASER beam are not fundamentally different from those in light from other sources. If navigational deflectors could truly block all LASERs of any power, the ship itself would be invisible (or rather, there would be a big black spot where it is). Not to mention the times when the E-D was threatened by LASER armed ships, such as:

TNG Season 2, Ep# 32: "Loud as a Whisper"

WORF: I'm reading laser activity in the Solari Solar System!
RIKER: How concentrated is the activity?
WORF: It is localized -- and very intense.
RIKER: So much for the cease-fire.
PICARD: Open hailing frequencies.
WORF: I can establish voice only.
PICARD: This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard, commander of the Federation starship USS Enterprise. If you continue to violate the rules by breaking the cease-fire, I will abort this mission.
FIRST LEADER: You have no jurisdiction here, Picard. Where is Riva?
PICARD: Riva is in charge of the summit. I command the ship that brings him. I will not endanger my ship under any circumstances.


If the E-D were truly immune it could waltz through them with its battle shields down.

The LASER immunity thing comes from the episode "Outrageous Okona", where a ship armed with a LASER was dismissed as not even being able to penetrate the E's nav deflectors. Some of the more rabid Trekkies take this to mean (as mentioned above) that they can therefore block any LASER of any power, even going so far as to say a shuttlecraft can survive a shot from the Death Star's superlaser. A far more reasonably explanation is that this particular LASER was simply too weak.

Now, if Star Wars ships used phasers, the Executor would dominate the entire federation.

No need. Her TLs are already vastly superior to phasers what we've seen from phasers. Though I suppose it is possible that, with her power generation capacity, chain-reacion-based phasers could be superior to direct-energy-transfer turbolasers in some situations.
 
2003-07-15 04:02:16 PM
FHEH! ALL of you are wrong, because both the Enterprise-E and a Super Star Destroyer fighting together could be blown into cosmic dust by a Zentraedi Command Ship. Nyeaaahh! Nyeaaahh! Nyeaaahh!

 
2003-07-15 04:24:03 PM
*** WARNING!!!!**** SUPER GEEK ALERT!!! ***** PLEASE AVERT EYES IF YOU ARE A NON_GEEK!!!!!*****


Okay my take on the whole Enterprise/Star Destroyer debate broken into various points (ignoring other factors like Q or Death Stars):

Size: Star Destroyer wins being roughly three times the size of Enterprise-E, if not more. Though size isn't actually a good thing when in a battle.

Firepower: Star Destroyers have the edge, with tons more point defense and capital weapons. Also a massive fighter compliment.

Speed - Subspace: Enterprise hands down. Almost any Starfleet ship can run circles around a Star Destroyer, which is slow and lumbering when in normal space.

Maneuverability - Subspace: Again it's Enterprise being the winner. Star Destroyers can't "turn on a dime" like Starfleep ships seem to be able to. As a matter of fact Star Destroyers are pretty slow at maneuvering anything.

Speed - Hyperspace: For the sake of argument lets just call faster than light travel hyperspace. I haven't found much data on exactly how fast Star Destroyers can go other than that they are a lot faster than just about anything else in the Star Wars universe. Considering how massive the Empire is and how easily they transverse the galaxy I would have to say Death Stars win here. Maximum safe speed for Enterprise is Warp 9.2, which would still take four days to travel 20 light years. It seems Star Wars ships can do that in at least half the time.

Maneuverability - Hyperspace: Enterprise wins just for the fact they can maneuver their ships while in warp. It seems ships in the Star Wars universe have to plot their course ahead of time and when in hyperspace just sit back and wait until they get there. If there was ever a fight in hyperspace the Enterprise is the only ship that can fire weapons while in warp. Those weapons being photon torpedoes.

Shields - Should be obvious Enterprise shields are significantly superior to Star Destroyer sheilds. If the Star Destroyer's sheild deflectors can be destroyed by weapons from small fighters than a single hit from a phaser would take them out easily. The rest of the Star Destroyer should be easy enough pickings after that.

Tractor Beams: It would be best to assume the Star Destroyer has more powerful tractor beams for no other reason than the fact that Star Destroyers have a massive power supply. Nearly 1/4 of the ship is a massive reactor. Given that, and that alone, the Star Destroyer would have more energy to draw upon. Thus the tractor beams are likely more potent when you max the power output.

Proton torpedoes vs. Photon torpedoes: No contest. Photon torpedoes have a much more powerful payload and can used while in warp. Remember Star Wars shields mostly absorb and disperse energy attacks while Star Trek shields absorb both beam energy and kinetic energy. It would take a lot of proton torpedoes to affect the shields of a ship as large as the enterprise.

Jedi Powers: There has to be a range limit for abilities like influencing someone's mind and choking people otherwise why even bother with light sabers? There are limits to these powers. The only viable theory is visual contact as shown in Empire Strikes Back. Only you would have to factor in that Riker or another officer on the Enterprise would cut off communications the first sign of trouble, thus stopping short the chokage.


Putting this all into consideration if you have Picard, Riker or Data at the helm the Enterprise will likely win for a number of reasons. Darth Vader hasn't shown himself to be a brilliant tactician in this arena. It's all about making best use of your advantages. You have superior mobility as well as the ability to split into two ships (Nacelle section and saucer section) to increase your battle effectiveness. You also have more powerful shelds on the Enterprise to sustaim several hits from those turbolasers while the Star Destroyer's sheild generators can be taken out more easily.Tactically speaking the Enterprise has the upper hand.

Now to cover some other hypotheticals I saw on this thread:

Wookie vs. Klingon: Sure wookies are stronger, but can they fight? It all depends on if the wookie is a trained warrior like the Klingon. So you really can't just say who can win by race alone... you freakin' bigots :-)

Borg Cube vs. Death Star: I have to say Death Star wins. Even though the Borg would have the ability to adapt quickly if the Death Star uses it's superlaser there really wouldn't be much time to adapt since the Borg cube would be obliterated. Even if the superlaser wasn't used first it would take a simgle Borg cube months to assimilate something as big as the Death Star. You can bet the "big gun" would be used well before then.

Millenium Falcon vs. Enterprise: You gotta be kidding me. No way the Falcon has the firepower to do any damage to the Enterprise. It's just too small.

Deathblossom vs. Star Destroyer: I would have to say no. Deathblossom is still a weapon on a fightercraft. Even if deathblossom can get past a Star Destroyer's shields it couldn't penetrate deep enough inside one to do significant damage. Now a Gunstar against 72 Tie Fighters and gunships? Yeah I would say even odds. :-)

Okay boys and girls... you just drained a ton of geek out of me. I need time to recharge with some good old Babylon 5 reruns and and a round of Pod Racer on my game system.

/Geek-boy signing off.
 
2003-07-15 04:29:37 PM
While the Red Dwarf would put up a good fight, it's the Heart Of Gold that can beat them all and make a nice cup of tea, just not at the same time.
 
2003-07-15 04:41:50 PM
Excellent points accompanied by in depth analysis SRFireside.

Dont think anyone could have laid down the facts any better.
 
2003-07-15 04:42:08 PM
Excellent points accompanied by an in depth analysis SRFireside.

Dont think anyone could have laid down the facts any better.
 
2003-07-15 04:43:08 PM
SRFireside, wow, that is really l337
 
2003-07-15 04:43:30 PM
In order for the Enterprise to even have a chance, they would need someone to warn them of any possible traps that the Empire may have set.
 
2003-07-15 04:51:44 PM
omg, people actually argue about this crap? whether one fictional space craft could beat another fictional spacecraft? i could beat them both single-handed. after all, i exist, and they don't.
 
2003-07-15 04:51:52 PM
I hate to get involved in this, but isn't the whole laser question moot?

Two words: Tie Bombers.

Now, ignoring the fact the SDF-1 could kick all KINDS of ass (sorry, couldn't resist, that's how I usually shut down this discussion if I ran across it, but then got the stare from both parties for daring to bring up a CARTOON in this 'serious' discussion. It's happened), I'd have to say this discussion boils down to power plant tech, which I have remotely NO idea what powers a star destroyer. The only reason I know what powers and Star Trek ship is they scream something about it every episode/movie. Hell, if you took discussions of the power source from the original series I don't think Scotty would have any lines left to his credit. Whoever has the most power to keep the shields replenishing would eventually win.

But chiming in, I'd have to think the shield system in both series would be roughly equal in stopping power (what the fark IS a turbo laser? If a laser is a beam of light, how do you make it a turbo version of light!?) and the star destroyer would win hands down on sheer numbers of weaponry alone.

I did some QA work on Klingon Academy, and the game really showed you that shields would get hit HARD by torpedoes. A couple would reduce your shield facing to practically nil, and that's when a good phaser battery would come into play. The dreadnought class ships that had 7+ torpedo banks fired consecutively would just core through whatever you were looking at.

So when you add Tie Bombers with full torpedo tubes, Tie Fighters to draw fire, and the massive battery of turbo lasers, I'm afraid you're looking at one seriously f'ed Enterprise.

But unless the Trek franchise is bought out by Lucas (and wouldn't that make people scream) we'll never see anything more concrete for proof.
 
2003-07-15 04:59:32 PM
I wonder why there weren't any quotes in the articles from women at the conference? Oh wait...
 
2003-07-15 05:02:36 PM
SRFireside

A couple of points:

Size generally means bubkus. It's the mass that counts when speaking of manuverability or acceleration in a vacuum.
The bulwarks of the Enterprise can be comprised of star dust, the most dense of substances in the universe.

The hyperspace speeds are discussed in the Star Wars book series (yeah I actually read a couple). IIRC, there is 3 speed grades of hyperspace which are .33, .50 and .66. Of the 3, the Millenium Falcon can travel .66 while a destroyer can only go .50. That why Han Solo said he could outrun those imperial cruisers all day long.


On the matter of shields, just because Star Destroyers are effected by snubfighter weapons doesnt mean that the Enterprise wouldnt have the same difficulty shielding against it. It might just be saying more about the snubfighters fearsome weapon system.

Why bother with lightsabers when you can chokehold from a distance? Because the people you usually fight with lightsabers could counteract your chokehold with their own force powers. Hence, everyone using lightsabers are generally on a level playing field and must resort to sabers to settle duels.

Dont forget that we are assuming universal constants, perhaps Han Solo will be able to swallow an Enterprise whole when it enters his universe.
 
2003-07-15 05:03:20 PM
2003-07-15 01:46:58 PM dreadnought
/Remember Trekker, not trekkie


There's a difference?
 
2003-07-15 05:04:20 PM
My credits are on the Enterprise. Heck, anything Star Trek would kick major Star Wars backside. Look, the Emporer can't even touch Q...

 
2003-07-15 05:26:40 PM
Where the REAL geeks do their debating...

Click Here For Uber Geekiness
 
2003-07-15 05:27:15 PM
Funnier is this, which comes from a whole page of this kind of stuff.

Scary.
 
2003-07-15 05:30:43 PM
Actually it would be a draw:

The star destroyer would fail because it's run by Star Wars bad guys who cannot hit the broadside of a planet.

Enterprise would spend all it's time trying to make freinds and avoid conflict.
 
2003-07-15 05:30:59 PM
Nothing in either universe could compare to the Improbability Drive of the Heart Of Gold. And Marvin would kick C3PO's metalic ass. Now Marvin vs. Bender would be a good fight.
 
2003-07-15 05:32:11 PM
You guys want to drain me completely eh?

CLem: You still have to factor that TIE Bombers can only carry a small payload compared the size of the Enterprise. Second you forget the mobility of the Enterprise compared to what TIE Bombers are used to hitting: nigh motionless targets. So first a TIE Bomber squad would have to keep up with a ship at least a hundred times larger than it that can fly faster than them at a moment's notice. Then there is the shield factor, which I still conclude are stronger on the Enterprise side.

Also remember torpedoes in the Star Trek universe are MUCH bigger and badder than the ones in Star Wars (please don't make me break out the books to explain why).

Linuxthess: Mass might not mean anything in space, but Star Destroyers are still a lot slower and less maneuverable than Starfleet ships. Base it on methods of how they move their ships, but it's still an advantage with the Enterprise.

I know the Falcon is faster than Star Destroyers, thus my saying faster than ALMOST anything out there. Since you know a bit more about Star Wars hyperspace velocity just how fast are these grades? Be nice to see how they compare since I had to speculate just by what I see in the movies for Star Wars.

The weapons systems on A-Wings, which I believe were the ones that took out the shield generators in ep. 6, are noted for having weak offensive capabilities compared to X-Wings and TIE Interceptors. Besides the Enterprise's phasers have been known to cause devastating damage on much larger ships than an A-Wing so I still say the argument stands that a single phaser hit can take out the shield generator.

My point on choke hold stuff is if that ability was so easilty done at a distance than people like Queen Amidala, Admiral Akbar, and a score of others would have been easily assassinated without any effort. There has to be limits apparently, and either range or in sight seem logical. Plus why didn't Luke choke Jabba? He choked two guards and did a mind freak on Jabba's henchmen before. There is a possibility the ability itself is taxing, even at close range.

I am of course assuming everybody is working in the same universe and the laws of physics that apply in said universe. Anything else would just be a complete blast of speculation on just about all incredible possibilities.
 
2003-07-15 05:38:14 PM
Speed - Hyperspace: For the sake of argument lets just call faster than light travel hyperspace. I haven't found much data on exactly how fast Star Destroyers can go other than that they are a lot faster than just about anything else in the Star Wars universe. Considering how massive the Empire is and how easily they transverse the galaxy I would have to say Death Stars win here. Maximum safe speed for Enterprise is Warp 9.2, which would still take four days to travel 20 light years. It seems Star Wars ships can do that in at least half the time.

You are right about hyperdrive being faster, though you are wrong about just how much faster. Speeds attained with Star Wars hyperdrives are on the order of 1 million c+. Examples:

In the novel Dark Force Rising, the hyperdrive of the Victory-class SD (the ISD's predecessor) was stated as being capable of 127 light years per hour, or 1.1 million c.

In Episode 1, Darth Maul's ship was able to make the trip from Coruscant to Tatooine in under one Tatooine day. Tatooine is in the Outer Rim, and Coruscant the core. We know from Dark Empire that the galaxy is 120,000 light years in diameter. Assuming the trip was 24 hours long, and that there is a mere 30,000 ly between the two planets, the hyperdrive of Maul's ship is capable of ~ 10 million c.

Speeds of 10 million c+ were also attained by the Millenium Falcon in her trip from Tatooine to Alderaan, which was also in the Core, relatively close to Coruscant.

There is no reason for there to be a significant difference between the hyperdrives of the Imperator-class and others. At the lowest speed listed here, it would take an ISD 10 minutes to traverse 20 lightyears.

Shields - Should be obvious Enterprise shields are significantly superior to Star Destroyer sheilds. If the Star Destroyer's sheild deflectors can be destroyed by weapons from small fighters than a single hit from a phaser would take them out easily. The rest of the Star Destroyer should be easy enough pickings after that.

I take it you refer to the destruction of one of the Executor's bridge globes in ROTJ. You ignore the fact that the Executor was under sustained fire from the entire Rebel fleet at the time, a fleet carrying dozens of cannon capable of multi gigaton blasts. Those globes are also not shield generators; the reasoning behind them being such requires they be unprotected by the shield they supposedly project*. They are instead sensor globes, their position and design being more in line with this, plus being labeled as such on the early ISD blue prints.

* The bridge globes are assumed to be shield generators by some because the destruction of one coincided with the loss of bridge shields in ROTJ. If the destruction of the globe caused the shield loss, the shields must have still been up when the globe was destroyed, meaning the globe itself was not protected by them (remember that the ship was under bombardment by an entire fleet at the time, which the shields were withstanding). If the shield was already down, the reasoning behind the globes being shield generators falls down completely. A more plausible explanation is that the fleet bombardment caused the temporary loss of bridge (and only bridge) shielding, and a passing fighter fired on this target of opportunity.


Proton torpedoes vs. Photon torpedoes: No contest. Photon torpedoes have a much more powerful payload and can used while in warp. Remember Star Wars shields mostly absorb and disperse energy attacks while Star Trek shields absorb both beam energy and kinetic energy. It would take a lot of proton torpedoes to affect the shields of a ship as large as the enterprise.

The small kiloton range Protorps seen in Episode 4 are only one type. There also exist large, multi-gigaton anti-ship variants. Imperial ships have two shield systems, ray shields which you mention here, and particle shields meant to stop physical impactors.

You also have more powerful shelds on the Enterprise to sustaim several hits from those turbolasers while the Star Destroyer's sheild generators can be taken out more easily.Tactically speaking the Enterprise has the upper hand.


The fact that SD shields are not so easily defeated crushes your conclusion. The E's shields can be brought down by megaton range weapons, while ISD shields can withstand multi-gigaton and even teraton bombardments. The ISD is also equipped with gigaton range weapons.

Victor: Empire
 
2003-07-15 05:41:08 PM
Bah, a competent cable repairman with an apple laptop could take them both, drunk, and with airsickness.
 
905
2003-07-15 05:46:06 PM
Now what about a Battlestar?

I'm sure Commander Cain & the Pegasus could whoop all their asses...
 
2003-07-15 05:51:13 PM
Clem - In the 1970s, "turbo" was a very cool word, and so was "laser" .. so you have Turbo Lasers in star wars movies. You have to remember that george lucas was like 13 when he made the first film.
 
2003-07-15 05:57:30 PM
Entertaining thread, but here's the definitively objective non-geek answer:

So deep are the chronicles, records, and "facts" of these two fantasy worlds. Any fan can dig up the technology and tactics that prove one ship is superior than the other.

However, each world has one incontrovertible law in common:

"The good guys win. The bad guys lose."

You figure out the result.
 
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