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(Reuters)   Boehner: "The CBO is entitled to their opinion." Actual math: "Boehner's an idiot"   (reuters.com ) divider line
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2926 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jan 2011 at 9:02 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-01-06 04:19:36 PM  
So the GOP wants to decrease the deficit by repealing HCR as well as fighting to keep the Bush tax cuts.

So the beatings will continue until morale improves?
 
2011-01-06 04:37:25 PM  
I don't understand this tactic of taking facts, calling them opinions, and then ignoring them.

//I know, both sides are bad.
 
2011-01-06 04:40:20 PM  
www.laprogressive.com
Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
 
2011-01-06 04:46:03 PM  
Oh pleeze. The CBO calculates the "assumptions" given to it. Garbage in, Garbage out.
 
2011-01-06 04:52:21 PM  

GaryPDX: Oh pleeze. The CBO calculates the "assumptions" given to it. Garbage in, Garbage out.


Then I'd say it's incumbent upon Mr. Boehner to provide better numbers, if as you say those numbers are garbage.
 
2011-01-06 04:56:55 PM  
This douchebag is the epitome of what passes for thought in the GOP.

Actual experts analyze something and issue their conclusions.

GOP response: Hurrrr... that's just like... your opinion, man. You're wrong because I said so.
 
2011-01-06 05:00:07 PM  
Only liberal elitists believe that fancy math stuff.
 
2011-01-06 05:06:10 PM  

Diogenes: GaryPDX: Oh pleeze. The CBO calculates the "assumptions" given to it. Garbage in, Garbage out.

Then I'd say it's incumbent upon Mr. Boehner to provide better numbers, if as you say those numbers are garbage.


Yea, I would hope so.

Had the Doctors payments (400 billion) hadn't been removed from the HCR calcs last spring, it would have never passed. That's why the CBO numbers aren't accurate on that issue. It's not their fault, as I said, they calculated the "assumptions" given to them by the people selling that turd.
 
2011-01-06 05:13:27 PM  

GaryPDX: Oh pleeze. The CBO calculates the "assumptions" given to it. Garbage in, Garbage out.


"Garbage in garbage out" is an apt description of most of your postings.
 
2011-01-06 05:15:53 PM  

GaryPDX: Had the Doctors payments (400 billion) hadn't been removed from the HCR calcs last spring, it would have never passed. That's why the CBO numbers aren't accurate on that issue. It's not their fault, as I said, they calculated the "assumptions" given to them by the people selling that turd.


Gary, you are talking about the medicare reimbursement rate which every congress has treated as off budget since the founding of medicare and which the republicans will treat as off budget even if they could repeal HCR. In other words, it is factored out of both sides numbers. Hence the CBO's numbers are correct.
 
2011-01-06 05:32:27 PM  

BritneysSpeculum: Gary, you are talking about the medicare reimbursement rate which every congress has treated as off budget since the founding of medicare and which the republicans will treat as off budget even if they could repeal HCR. In other words, it is factored out of both sides numbers. Hence the CBO's numbers are correct.


To be fair though, Gary is a retarded Republican fop.
 
2011-01-06 05:38:09 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: BritneysSpeculum: Gary, you are talking about the medicare reimbursement rate which every congress has treated as off budget since the founding of medicare and which the republicans will treat as off budget even if they could repeal HCR. In other words, it is factored out of both sides numbers. Hence the CBO's numbers are correct.

To be fair though, Gary is a retarded Republican fop.


Of course, that is an assumption that I incorporate into all of my analyses.
 
2011-01-06 05:45:22 PM  
Boehner you make me sick
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-01-06 05:49:42 PM  

Kimothy: I don't understand this tactic of taking facts, calling them opinions, and then ignoring them.


Denying reality as opinion weakens the power of your opponent's argument and protects your base of support by reinforcing their biases.
 
2011-01-06 06:00:31 PM  

GaryPDX: Oh pleeze. The CBO calculates the "assumptions" given to it. Garbage in, Garbage out.


Facts and analysis --> GaryPDX --> HURR DURR DERP-DERP-DERP
 
2011-01-06 06:19:46 PM  
Something about Nixon and dolt...
 
2011-01-06 06:30:11 PM  
Majority Leader Eric Cantor got asked about this, and he returned the reporter's serve with a volley of nonsense. "About the budget implications, I think most people understand that the CBO did the job it was asked to do by the then-Democrat majority, and it was really comparing apples to oranges," Cantor said. "It talked about 10 years' worth of tax hikes and six years' worth of benefits. Everyone knows beyond the 10-year window, this bill has the potential to bankrupt this federal government as well as the states."

That's all well and good -- but it's not true.

voices.washingtonpost.com

What's important about Cantor's argument is not that he's wrong. It's why he's saying something he knows to be wrong. There are plenty of reasons to oppose the health-care reform bill. You might not want to spend that money insuring people, or you might not think the legislation goes far enough in reforming the system. But as a matter of arithmetic, using the math that Congress always uses, the bill saves money. It cuts enough spending and raises enough taxes to more than pay for itself, both in the first 10 years and in the second 10 years. In fact, Democrats added that second metric, which is not typically a hoop that legislation has to jump through, in order to specifically allay concerns that the legislation would backload its costs. Instead, as CBO said, it ramps up its savings.

Link (new window)

Just lying through their teeth.
 
2011-01-06 06:31:13 PM  

CitizenTed: Facts and analysis --> GaryPDX --> HURR DURR DERP-DERP-DERP


It's sad to always focus on Gary, when he is essentially a representation of 1/3 (or more) of the American population, and the VAST majority of GOP politicians.
 
2011-01-06 06:39:44 PM  

GaryPDX: That's why the CBO numbers aren't accurate on that issue.


5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform. This is both the most unfair of the GOP's arguments, and the most annoying to rebut, as it's fairly complicated. But here's the short version: In 1997, the Republican Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Bill Thomas, added a provision to Medicare that cut doctor pay if growth exceeded a certain formula. The formula was flawed and the provision, which was expected to require modest cuts, suddenly began requiring huge cuts that would've sent doctors fleeing. So the Republican Congress began passing bills that kept the automatic cuts from going into place. When the Democrats took power, in 2006, they did the same thing. None of these bills were ever paid for, on either side.

The reason they were never paid for was that under the rules of the budget process, you would've had to find offsets for these hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts that you had never intended to make. And no one wanted to do that. Nor did anyone want to repeal the provision without offsets, because that would make them look fiscally irresponsible, as CBO's deficit estimates would rise sharply. So Congress kept passing one-year patches to SGR. When health-care reform was starting, House Democrats broached a permanent fix, but the GOP, in a sudden and opportunistic outbreak of fiscal responsibility, wouldn't let them undo the GOP's mistake unless they also offset the cost of the GOP's mistake. So House Democrats dropped it from health-care reform, because there was no need to add more problems and costs to the ones they were already dealing with.

Republicans then decided that this meant the doc fix was part of the cost of health-care reform, but this was transparently false: The problem predated the health-care reform bill, and needed to be fixed whether or not there was a health-care reform bill. The argument was the same as saying that America has $2.2 trillion in needed infrastructure upgrades, and those should be added to the cost of the bill. Incidentally, the GOP repeal bill doesn't include a word on the doc fix. If you follow their logic, this means that the cost of the doc fix should be added to their repeal bill, and in that case, their bill increases the deficit by $540 billion, not $240 billion. But they don't actually believe the argument they're making on this subject and neither do I, so I'm not going to try to get you to believe that. If you're a glutton for punishment and want to read more about this, head here.

Link (new window)

Never underestimate Gary's ability to be wrong.
 
2011-01-06 07:50:43 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.


Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.
 
2011-01-06 07:59:12 PM  

GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.


The doc fix has been instituted since 1997. And you're moving the goalposts.
 
2011-01-06 08:04:59 PM  

GaryPDX: Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.



Excellent retort, full of citations and facts. Clearly, Ezra is wrong and you are right. I'll email WaPo, have them set you up an office.
 
2011-01-06 08:09:08 PM  
Fun fact: The current head of the CBO used to work for the Brookings Institution and famously torpedoed Clinton's health care plan for being too costly.
 
2011-01-06 08:18:06 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.

The doc fix has been instituted since 1997. And you're moving the goalposts.


I'm not either. If you're going to try and sell a comprehensive plan, you have have to include all the elements. From the GOP side, that's what they see, the whole picture and it does NOT compute.

Doc Fix is on the side, that's a Medicare element. HCR is robbing 500 billion from Medicare..how the fark is it not related?

Not to mention HCR assumes the States will pick up the slack, that's what's mandated. What a hoot!! The States are already Tango Uniform.

It's a bad legislation, Cameron. Let's jettison it and build a better reform. Everyone squawks about Insurance Companies but we never hear about what Providers charge them for services. That area MUST be addressed too.

Look at it this way, example. If you replace your windshield and pay cash, you're looking at 2-3 hundred bucks. If you charge it to your Insurance Company, you get red carpet treatment and 24 dinners at the local restaurant chain. That's because they bill the Insurance Company the max which can be as much as 2500 bucks. And you get a rate hike and you hate the EVIL insurance company.

Things like this in Health Care are not even being addressed. Do you pay a 1000 bucks for some Aroma Therapy?

The point is the whole thing needs a dressing down. And that also involves every state's constitutions too.
 
2011-01-06 08:24:00 PM  
You're on your own cameron.
 
2011-01-06 08:26:45 PM  

GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.


Yes, let's repeal the health care plan largely modeled on a former GOP plan for health care for a new GOP plan for health care.

What's the new GOP plan they'll want to repeal?
 
2011-01-06 08:29:54 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: You're on your own cameron.


Aww dude!, we've been sparring for years. We just went green. The Liters will garble. Don't give up now.
 
2011-01-06 08:31:25 PM  

djkutch: GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.

Yes, let's repeal the health care plan largely modeled on a former GOP plan for health care for a new GOP plan for health care.

What's the new GOP plan they'll want to repeal?


lol..are you serious? You're claiming what Libs/Progressives have been selling for 60 years as a GOP plan? Really?
 
2011-01-06 08:36:30 PM  

GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.


Dusk, I doubt Gary read your excellent post. If he did, I'm sure he didn't comprehend it.

The best part about being him is that when all else fails, he can fall back on just being dumb.
 
2011-01-06 08:39:43 PM  

GaryPDX: djkutch: GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.

Yes, let's repeal the health care plan largely modeled on a former GOP plan for health care for a new GOP plan for health care.

What's the new GOP plan they'll want to repeal?

lol..are you serious? You're claiming what Libs/Progressives have been selling for 60 years as a GOP plan? Really?


Yup. (new window)
 
2011-01-06 08:39:46 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.

Dusk, I doubt Gary read your excellent post. If he did, I'm sure he didn't comprehend it.

The best part about being him is that when all else fails, he can fall back on just being dumb.


You guys can't answer me, so you just call me dumb. Carry on.
 
2011-01-06 08:43:56 PM  

djkutch: Yup. (new window)


Well, it didn't sell in 93, or 35 or 39 under FDR. And it's not selling now.
 
2011-01-06 08:46:30 PM  

GaryPDX: djkutch: Yup. (new window)

Well, it didn't sell in 93, or 35 or 39 under FDR. And it's not selling now.


It's already sold and you can't get rid of it. Neener neener.
 
2011-01-06 08:46:33 PM  
If the GOP wants to CHANGE the health care bill, as in actually improve it with their impressive wealth of brilliant ideas they have shown us all over the last 40 years, then let them present their ideas.

That is not what this is about. They have no interest in fixing health care. They only want to bring down an Obama legislative victory. Their interests are those of insurance companies and big pharma. This is why their ONLY suggestions are to break the seal on interstate medical commerce and tort reform. This would greatly exacerbate the problem, not solve it in any way. It is the same bullshiat they have been weakly peddling for years. Weak sauce.

Greed is a pre-existing condition.
 
2011-01-06 08:49:20 PM  

GaryPDX: You guys can't answer me, so you just call me dumb. Carry on.


They answer you, you refuse to rebut with any but bald assertions.

Can we stop responding to this attention-driven tar-pit troll? Please? Any decade now? We all know he's beyond redemption and completely wrong in every possible way if he's a real human being, and a total waste of time if not. Can we, I dunno, discuss how disingenuous Boehner's being?
 
2011-01-06 08:51:43 PM  

Occam's Chainsaw: GaryPDX: You guys can't answer me, so you just call me dumb. Carry on.

They answer you, you refuse to rebut with any but bald assertions.

Can we stop responding to this attention-driven tar-pit troll? Please? Any decade now? We all know he's beyond redemption and completely wrong in every possible way if he's a real human being, and a total waste of time if not. Can we, I dunno, discuss how disingenuous Boehner's being?


Ya know what? I've pretty much written you guys off too, so there we are.
 
2011-01-06 08:53:53 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Greed is a pre-existing condition.


Indeed, the Greed of free government checks so far.
 
2011-01-06 08:56:51 PM  

GaryPDX: djkutch: GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.

Yes, let's repeal the health care plan largely modeled on a former GOP plan for health care for a new GOP plan for health care.

What's the new GOP plan they'll want to repeal?

lol..are you serious? You're claiming what Libs/Progressives have been selling for 60 years as a GOP plan? Really?


The individual mandate is a Republican idea from the 90s, Gary.
 
2011-01-06 08:57:24 PM  

GaryPDX: AdolfOliverPanties: Greed is a pre-existing condition.

Indeed, the Greed of free government checks so far.


It is only because you seem like a nice enough guy that you aren't on ignore. The massive stupidity and party line vomit you splash on this page would otherwise put your name in gray with empty spaces underneath.
 
2011-01-06 08:59:44 PM  

GaryPDX: djkutch: Yup. (new window)

Well, it didn't sell in 93, or 35 or 39 under FDR. And it's not selling now.


It was bought. Obama signed the receipt.

I don't know why you are insisting on "tearing it down and starting over"

G.O.P. refused to join in at the beginning, middle and end.

Good luck trying to get any repeal passed through the house...and Democratic President.
 
2011-01-06 08:59:51 PM  

GaryPDX: djkutch: Yup. (new window)

Well, it didn't sell in 93, or 35 or 39 under FDR. And it's not selling now.


Gee, I didn't see 35 or 39 in the link for comparison, but I did see a Republican proposal in 93. I'm confused.

Because, I love you and would offer a kidney. Liver is more appropriate, but we don't get two of those.
jussoli.com
 
2011-01-06 09:03:07 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: The individual mandate is a Republican idea from the 90s, Gary.


And obviously rejected by the populace. Ken Lay dreamed up Cap and Trade too, so what?

Stop trying to skirt the issue Libs/Progressives have been pushing government health care since the 30's and have been rejected every time.
 
2011-01-06 09:03:40 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: GaryPDX: djkutch: GaryPDX: Dusk-You-n-Me: 5) The doc fix is not part of health-care reform.

Gimmicks. If you're going to try and pass some 2000 page "comprehensive" turd on the American people, at least try to be somewhat "comprehensive".

This puppy needs to die and everyone start over.

Yes, let's repeal the health care plan largely modeled on a former GOP plan for health care for a new GOP plan for health care.

What's the new GOP plan they'll want to repeal?

lol..are you serious? You're claiming what Libs/Progressives have been selling for 60 years as a GOP plan? Really?

The individual mandate is a Republican idea from the 90s, Gary.


no one farks with the Jesus (new window)

thefeed.blogs.com
 
2011-01-06 09:04:50 PM  

djkutch: Gee, I didn't see 35 or 39 in the link for comparison


Sorry (new window) Here ya go.
 
2011-01-06 09:06:01 PM  

GaryPDX: cameroncrazy1984: The individual mandate is a Republican idea from the 90s, Gary.

And obviously rejected by the populace. Ken Lay dreamed up Cap and Trade too, so what?

Stop trying to skirt the issue Libs/Progressives have been pushing government health care since the 30's and have been rejected every time.


Rejected by the corporations. When adequately presented to actual citizens your premise fails.
 
2011-01-06 09:07:46 PM  
Does anyone know whether there has been a good study of the CBO's predictions in hindsight? Not just anecdotal "They got that completely wrong" or "They hit that one on the head"?
 
2011-01-06 09:10:44 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Does anyone know whether there has been a good study of the CBO's predictions in hindsight? Not just anecdotal "They got that completely wrong" or "They hit that one on the head"?


Link
 
2011-01-06 09:11:03 PM  

2wolves: GaryPDX: cameroncrazy1984: The individual mandate is a Republican idea from the 90s, Gary.

And obviously rejected by the populace. Ken Lay dreamed up Cap and Trade too, so what?

Stop trying to skirt the issue Libs/Progressives have been pushing government health care since the 30's and have been rejected every time.

Rejected by the corporations. When adequately presented to actual citizens your premise fails.


America is a free country. We're free to choose. I can work for a corporation or I can own my own.

Your point?
 
2011-01-06 09:11:05 PM  

GaryPDX: djkutch: Gee, I didn't see 35 or 39 in the link for comparison

Sorry (new window) Here ya go.

We might have thought the Great Depression would create the perfect conditions for passing compulsory health insurance in the US, but with millions out of work, unemployment insurance took priority followed by old age benefits. FDR's Committee on Economic Security, the CES, feared that inclusion of health insurance in its bill, which was opposed by the AMA, would threaten the passage of the entire Social Security legislation. It was therefore excluded.


Wow, shoving it down the people's throat even back then. I'm not sure you really checked out your site.
 
2011-01-06 09:12:41 PM  
So the liberals think Obamacare will cut funds for healthcare in the long term saving us money, why do liberals hate healthcare for the people?
 
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