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(Dorchester Reporter)   Boston Globe uses apostrophe in attempt to seem relevant. The Dorchester Reporter is there   (dotnews.com) divider line 43
    More: Silly, Dorchester, Boston Globe, Grand Ole Opry, New Englanders  
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9672 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2011 at 3:47 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-01-02 12:25:49 PM  
Dear subby,
RTFA before writing your headline. Nor'easter is correct. TFA foes on to piss and moan about how people around there are retarded and are in desperate need of speech therapy.
 
2011-01-02 01:19:31 PM  
FTFA: Pronunciation that leaves out the "r" sound is the way linguistically stubborn New Englanders and Bostonians have spoken for centuries, as in "hahbis" for harbors, "bahjis" for barges, "cahs" for cars, "Dawchestah" for Dorchester, and "nawtheastahs" for northeasters. So why nor'easter with its pointedly accented "r"?

Really? People have spoken like that for centuries? Kind of hard to imagine the pilgrims going to the natives and asking "hey red man, gaht any cidah so I can wash down mah food?".

Aside from that, anyone heard speaking like that west of Worcester, south of Weymouth or north of Haverhill gets looked at like they are "retahded".
 
2011-01-02 01:44:46 PM  
RoxtarRyan: Aside from that, anyone heard speaking like that west of Worcester, south of Weymouth or north of Haverhill gets looked at like they are "retahded".

You've obviously never been to Northern New England. Swamp Yankees in Maine are pretty bad.
 
2011-01-02 01:52:46 PM  
SpaceyCat: You've obviously never been to Northern New England. Swamp Yankees in Maine are pretty bad.

I have a buddy who lives north of Augusta. He has more of a Brooklyn accent, really...

How north are we talking, here? There is a point in Maine where somehow, through a ripple in space-time, you end up transported to rural West Virginia.
 
2011-01-02 03:00:04 PM  
Slow news day, eh?
 
2011-01-02 03:49:29 PM  
LOL WUT
 
2011-01-02 03:52:06 PM  
As an aside, Do'chestah is also a great place to get shanked.
 
2011-01-02 03:52:45 PM  
www.tooconservative.com
 
2011-01-02 03:53:39 PM  
RoxtarRyan: There is a point in Maine where somehow, through a ripple in space-time, you end up transported to rural West Virginia.

You can't get there from here
 
2011-01-02 03:55:17 PM  
cretinbob: Dear subby,
RTFA before writing your headline. Nor'easter is correct. TFA foes on to piss and moan about how people around there are retarded and are in desperate need of speech therapy.


I'm confused.
Enemies of TFA piss and moan?
 
2011-01-02 03:59:21 PM  
Ah used ta live downeast, subby deah, an' it's a nor'eastah. ayuh.
 
2011-01-02 03:59:33 PM  
What do the skinheads from Maine have to say about all this?
 
2011-01-02 04:01:03 PM  
its not news...
 
2011-01-02 04:01:44 PM  
truestorieslaworder.com

www.eutree.eu

www.kingskidstuff.com
 
2011-01-02 04:04:15 PM  
7 paragraphs and 435 words for a stylebook change that probably three people outside the paper care about. Some reporter didn't want to go out in the freezing cold and find an actual story today.
 
2011-01-02 04:04:38 PM  
The Dorchester Reporter is there

I first read that as "The douchey reporter".
 
2011-01-02 04:10:06 PM  
snoah
 
2011-01-02 04:12:08 PM  
So the newspapers have sunk to the point where they are reporting on each other?
 
2011-01-02 04:12:33 PM  
I have no dog in this fight, but - http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2870
 
2011-01-02 04:13:30 PM  
A rare word - English English.
The term "nor'easter" comes to American English by way of British English. According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the first recorded use in the English language of the term "nore" ("north") in association with the points of the compass and wind direction is by Dekker in 1612
Wiki - so it must be true (new window)
 
2011-01-02 04:22:11 PM  
RoxtarRyan: FTFA: Pronunciation that leaves out the "r" sound is the way linguistically stubborn New Englanders and Bostonians have spoken for centuries, as in "hahbis" for harbors, "bahjis" for barges, "cahs" for cars, "Dawchestah" for Dorchester, and "nawtheastahs" for northeasters. So why nor'easter with its pointedly accented "r"?

Really? People have spoken like that for centuries? Kind of hard to imagine the pilgrims going to the natives and asking "hey red man, gaht any cidah so I can wash down mah food?".

Aside from that, anyone heard speaking like that west of Worcester, south of Weymouth or north of Haverhill gets looked at like they are "retahded".


=/ DNRTFA but reporter may want to look up rhotic and non-rhotic accents
 
2011-01-02 04:22:30 PM  
ChuableVicodin: RoxtarRyan: There is a point in Maine where somehow, through a ripple in space-time, you end up transported to rural West Virginia.

You can't get there theah from here heah


FTFY

Turn left at the third Dunkin Donuts.
 
2011-01-02 04:22:48 PM  
Cue Bob the Angry Fl... oh wait, never mind.
 
2011-01-02 04:24:38 PM  
itsfullofstars: So the newspapers have sunk to the point where they are reporting on each other?

In Boston, newspapers sniping at each other goes back to Colonial times.

Anyway, I lived in and around Boston for almost twenty years, and I heard plenty of people pronounce it noreaster. Or, much more commonly, blizzard or snow storm, if you're not actually on a boat.

Besides, the Brahmin would say nawtheaster in a dry tone, think you veddy much, and people just a little ways north would either say northeaster (even if it's spelled nor'easter) or norrrreastah.

New England has like 65,000 dialectic pronunciations. And 30 Rock gets them all hilariously wrong, but is it funny to anyone not from the area?
 
2011-01-02 04:37:02 PM  
Westcoast Mariners use the term Nor'Easter all the time.
I cannot understand what the subby is trying to say.Clearly the only boat he has navigated was in his bathtub sailing around his weiner.

(licensed officer-command endorsement)
 
2011-01-02 04:40:32 PM  
The term Nor'easter is a British nautical term, and has little to do with New England.

cf Sou'wester.
 
2011-01-02 04:51:34 PM  
I'm not su'e I get the w'ite's point. Does he want the Globe to spell "northeaster" out in full or to spell it "no'easter" to reflect local pronunciation?

I did a Google n-gram search for all three spellings and found that there has been a recent increase in the use of the abbreviated form used by the Globe.

This makes sense since very few people pronounce the theta (th) sound and it shortens the word. Dropping the "r" in spelling, however, doesn't make much sense to me and my n-gram search from 1820 to 2008 shows that very, very few authors do so or ever did. It makes sense to leave the unpronounced "r" in for the same reason a lot of silent letters are left in the "correct" spelling of words--to explain the etymological source of the word and thus make it easier to identify.

I doubt if the Dorchester whatzit style requires reporters and editors to drop all the unpronounced words in words such as caw, staw, King Judge, etc.

My n-gram shows that the full spelling was preferred until quite recently, but that No'easter is now dominant. This is not a conspiracy of snobby Bostoners, whatever the proles in Dorchester might think. It is just natural linguistic change, such as the gradual dropping of hyphens in hyphenated words to form new words.

However, if you look at British books, Nor'easter does not appear. It is an American usage which dates back to the mid to late 1800s but which seems to be coming to the fore, or as they say in bits of New England, the faw. Or is it fo'?

Disclaimer
My ancestor, John Gallup (or Gallop, Gallupe, etc.), was a pioneer of Dorchester, MA, in 1630 and became a freedman of Boston in 1634. His wife, Christobel, brought the four boys over in 1634 after Governor Winthrop wrote a letter to the Reverend John White, in Dorchester, England, to convince her to get her feeble feminine backside to the colonies as it would cost John Gallup forty pounds to go fetch her and he didn't want to lose a good settler who was making himself useful in the coastal trade and also sometimes serving as a pilot to Boston Harbour, or Hubba, as it is called locally.

Linguistics is fun. My great-grandmother married a Philadelphian that she met in Bah Hubba, Mayan.

Bah, Hubba! Bah, Hubba! Bah, Hubba-ba-ba-ba-ba!
 
2011-01-02 04:55:44 PM  
jjorsett: 7 paragraphs and 435 words for a stylebook change that probably three people outside the paper care about. Some reporter didn't want to go out in the freezing cold and find an actual story today.

He doesn't even have that excuse. It's 50° in Boston today.
 
2011-01-02 05:01:02 PM  
The result, he said, is that a person "finds himself talking like a stage Yankee from a 19th-century melodrama."

Burn!
 
2011-01-02 05:15:50 PM  
brantgoose: I'm not su'e I get the w'ite's point. Does he want the Globe to spell "northeaster" out in full or to spell it "no'easter" to reflect local pronunciation?

I did a Google n-gram search for all three spellings and found that there has been a recent increase in the use of the abbreviated form used by the Globe.

This makes sense since very few people pronounce the theta (th) sound and it shortens the word. Dropping the "r" in spelling, however, doesn't make much sense to me and my n-gram search from 1820 to 2008 shows that very, very few authors do so or ever did. It makes sense to leave the unpronounced "r" in for the same reason a lot of silent letters are left in the "correct" spelling of words--to explain the etymological source of the word and thus make it easier to identify.

I doubt if the Dorchester whatzit style requires reporters and editors to drop all the unpronounced words in words such as caw, staw, King Judge, etc.

My n-gram shows that the full spelling was preferred until quite recently, but that No'easter is now dominant. This is not a conspiracy of snobby Bostoners, whatever the proles in Dorchester might think. It is just natural linguistic change, such as the gradual dropping of hyphens in hyphenated words to form new words.

However, if you look at British books, Nor'easter does not appear. It is an American usage which dates back to the mid to late 1800s but which seems to be coming to the fore, or as they say in bits of New England, the faw. Or is it fo'?

Disclaimer
My ancestor, John Gallup (or Gallop, Gallupe, etc.), was a pioneer of Dorchester, MA, in 1630 and became a freedman of Boston in 1634. His wife, Christobel, brought the four boys over in 1634 after Governor Winthrop wrote a letter to the Reverend John White, in Dorchester, England, to convince her to get her feeble feminine backside to the colonies as it would cost John Gallup forty pounds to go fetch her and he didn't want to lose a good settler who was making himself useful in the coastal trade and also sometimes serving as a pilot to Boston Harbour, or Hubba, as it is called locally.

Linguistics is fun. My great-grandmother married a Philadelphian that she met in Bah Hubba, Mayan.

Bah, Hubba! Bah, Hubba! Bah, Hubba-ba-ba-ba-ba!


This is the coolest story in the history of cool stories.
/My Southern accent is irrelevant to this thread
 
2011-01-02 05:17:53 PM  
FTA: Tom Mulvoy worked in the Globe newsroom from 1966 through the year 2000.

No sour grapes here!

/ Though the article's griping about the lack of resources put into
/ local obituaries does ring true.
 
2011-01-02 05:24:53 PM  
WAHST FACKIN' ACCENT IN THA WAHLD! NO ONE DENIES THIS!
 
2011-01-02 05:27:02 PM  
jjorsett: 7 paragraphs and 435 words for a stylebook change that probably three people outside the paper care about. Some reporter didn't want to go out in the freezing cold and find an actual story today.

You'd think that with all the Pulitzer prize winners out of jobs in the newspaper industry that the Dorchester Reporter, which only publishes on Thursdays, could find talented staff to fill their paper with meaningful articles.
 
2011-01-02 05:47:27 PM  
somewhat harmless: FTA: Tom Mulvoy worked in the Globe newsroom from 1966 through the year 2000.

No sour grapes here!


The dude wasted 25 column inches on a rant about a previous employer's print style. I can see why the Globe let him go.
 
2011-01-02 06:18:54 PM  
The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.
 
2011-01-02 06:24:55 PM  
*goes
 
2011-01-02 07:23:13 PM  
Typical example of an un-story.

"Nor'easter" is correct.
 
2011-01-02 09:07:21 PM  
Mr.Man: Westcoast Mariners use the term Nor'Easter all the time.
I cannot understand what the subby is trying to say.Clearly the only boat he has navigated was in his bathtub sailing around his weiner.

(licensed officer-command endorsement)


what the hell is a 'Westcoast Mainer'?
 
2011-01-03 04:35:30 AM  
FTA: So why nor'easter with its pointedly accented "r"?

I don't think they're spelling it that way so you can pronounce it phonetically, dude; they're putting an apostrophe in the place of the missing "th" in the word north.

Y'all like this pointedly accented Y? Good, fark y'all.
 
2011-01-03 11:38:50 AM  
llDuffManll: The result, he said, is that a person "finds himself talking like a stage Yankee from a 19th-century melodrama."

Burn!


Author needs to get out more. People still talk like this. And even I would call the author a Masshole.
 
2011-01-03 11:58:41 AM  
ChuableVicodin: RoxtarRyan: There is a point in Maine where somehow, through a ripple in space-time, you end up transported to rural West Virginia.

You can't get there from here


Kudos for the Bert and I reference
 
2011-01-03 01:14:52 PM  
Tillmaster: The term Nor'easter is a British nautical term, and has little to do with New England.

That seems fairly incorrect, since there is an obvious significant connection between Britain and New England.

I don't know what the hubbub is all about. I've been reading "nor'easter" and hearing people say it my whole life.

/from southern New England
 
2011-01-03 05:45:42 PM  
ttyymmnn: ChuableVicodin: RoxtarRyan: There is a point in Maine where somehow, through a ripple in space-time, you end up transported to rural West Virginia.

You can't get there from here

Kudos for the Bert and I reference


"Then Bert stahted up the one-lungah"

Ka-CHUG. Ka-CHUG. Ka-CHUGCHUGCHUGCHUG
 
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