If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Dispatch)   Glenn Beck: The government does not want you to know the truth about historical artifacts supporting my paranoid Mormon fantasies. Historian: shut up   (dispatch.com) divider line 248
    More: Stupid  
•       •       •

23186 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2010 at 5:11 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



248 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2010-12-29 08:59:54 PM
Indubitably: helix400: Indubitably: "Golden tablets," man; puhleeze.

I know, a Mediterranean society, golden tablets making a book to record stuff, around 600 BC, the idea is crazy...

Dude, don't even.

Please.

Spare you, me, and the restivus.

Take yer links and scatter them to the moon and stars, bro.

Word.

Peace out.

;)


I can't tell if you're retarded, trolling, or both.
 
2010-12-29 09:00:06 PM
 
2010-12-29 09:00:12 PM
WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.


img684.imageshack.us
 
2010-12-29 09:00:22 PM
superman82: As a Mormon, I would really appreciate it if Glenn Beck would shut his pie hole and stop embarrassing the rest of us.

Trust me, you hardly need Glenn Beck's help to be an embarrassment, you've managed that all on your own.
 
2010-12-29 09:05:19 PM
Kinek: Indubitably: helix400: Indubitably: "Golden tablets," man; puhleeze.

I know, a Mediterranean society, golden tablets making a book to record stuff, around 600 BC, the idea is crazy...

Dude, don't even.

Please.

Spare you, me, and the restivus.

Take yer links and scatter them to the moon and stars, bro.

Word.

Peace out.

;)

I can't tell if you're retarded, trolling, or both.


I run full retard, friend, and you?

;)
 
2010-12-29 09:06:22 PM
WhyteRaven74: And Discovery Channel's The Story of Us, was to be polite an abortion of history

That was actually History Channel, too. And I'm glad I'm not the only one who couldn't watch it because it was utter bullshiat.
 
2010-12-29 09:06:24 PM
mcreadyblue: Gyrfalcon: However, the reason we know they probably didn't is the horrible impact that the diseases Columbus's sailors brought had upon the Native Americans when they did arrive. A previously exposed population would not have had such a terrible and deadly reaction.

Not necessarily, the Black Plague killed upwards of 60% of Europe in the 700s and returned in 1450, just 40 years before Columbus' voyage to the New World and killed off another 60%.

In 1666, during the Great Plague of London, 20% of the population died.

Though the Indians did reply with syphilis and herpes. :-)


Plague is bacterial. Bacterial infections don't create immunity in populations like viral ones. The kill rates of plague don't necessarily apply to smallpox, measles, flu and mumps. Also, epidemiologists have other reasons for believing that Native Americans were completely free of all so-called crowd diseases when they were introduced in the early 1500's by the Spanish; among them being the dramatic kill ratios (up to 90%), the unusual symptoms, the indiscriminate nature of the deaths (children, young adults and old people), and the rapidity of transmission, all of which were no longer seen in Europe by the 16th Century. A good place to start for some of these explanations are Laurie Garrett's "The Coming Plague"--it's pretty outdated now, but has some good citations.

The Black Death was in 1350, not 1450, or about 150 years before Columbus left, dear, although the Mortis Secundis hit about 1370, and was nearly as deadly as the Great Dying.
 
2010-12-29 09:06:28 PM
Indubitably: Kinek: Indubitably: helix400: Indubitably: "Golden tablets," man; puhleeze.

I know, a Mediterranean society, golden tablets making a book to record stuff, around 600 BC, the idea is crazy...

Dude, don't even.

Please.

Spare you, me, and the restivus.

Take yer links and scatter them to the moon and stars, bro.

Word.

Peace out.

;)

I can't tell if you're retarded, trolling, or both.

I run full retard, friend, and you?

;)


I oscillate between Retarded and Genius. Only one of the two at a time.
 
2010-12-29 09:07:15 PM
huntercr: UNC_Samurai: Beck went on to say the stones were purposely kept out of history books by the government and the Smithsonian Institution.

No, that sort of idiotic historical hackery is usually reserved for the new History Channel.

Good to see I'm not the only one who noticed the History channel seems to not actually have any... you know... History on it anymore.

Seems like the Discovery Channel and History channel both kind of died somewhere about 10 years ago. Weird.


Google Nancy Dubuc. She's the Bonnie Hammer of "History"
 
2010-12-29 09:09:36 PM
thunderbird8804: superman82: As a Mormon, I would really appreciate it if Glenn Beck would shut his pie hole and stop embarrassing the rest of us.

Trust me, you hardly need Glenn Beck's help to be an embarrassment, you've managed that all on your own.


Tut tut. The vast majority of Mormons keep their personal derp well in check. Beck and Romney are the only two in public life I'm aware of and of the two, Romney doesn't even bring it up.

/Sentence not valid in California public elections.
 
2010-12-29 09:11:12 PM
Gyrfalcon: and was nearly as deadly as the Great Dying

The Great Dying was an extinction event over 250 million years ago.
 
2010-12-29 09:12:32 PM
Kinek: Indubitably: Kinek: Indubitably: helix400: Indubitably: "Golden tablets," man; puhleeze.

I know, a Mediterranean society, golden tablets making a book to record stuff, around 600 BC, the idea is crazy...

Dude, don't even.

Please.

Spare you, me, and the restivus.

Take yer links and scatter them to the moon and stars, bro.

Word.

Peace out.

;)

I can't tell if you're retarded, trolling, or both.

I run full retard, friend, and you?

;)

I oscillate between Retarded and Genius. Only one of the two at a time.


Me too, but who's counting?

:)
 
2010-12-29 09:14:14 PM
Gyrfalcon: Nappy Imus: hubiestubert: This is a man who promotes a religion whose main texts were given to a guy by an angel by the name of Moroni. Moron-i. Apparently, Mr. Smith was visited by a dumb Italian angel with a-horrible accent...

Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

Mind you--there is some evidence that suggests possible Polynesian contact that was Pre-Columbian. As well as the Tolucca Valley terra cotta head that suggests possible Roman contact--possibly through the Phoenicians--dated for 800BC-1270AD, but there is question of authenticity, and whether or not it was planted there. Likewise, there have been supposed amphorae supposedly found off the coast of Brazil, but likewise, may have been a deliberate hoax.

Then there's the Bat Creek and Los Lunas Decalogue Stone, which suggest Jewish contact in Pre-Columbian times, which should make the LDS heads asplode. And the Olmec statuary that has long been suggested show an African presence in Meso-America long before Whitey showed up. And then later suggested contact by the Mali in the early 1300s.

The Olmecs have also been theorized by some to have had contact with the Chinese towards the end of the Shang Dynasty. And the legends of Fusang have been suggested show contact with California. And likewise, there has been suggested Indian contact as well, for similarities in some paintings of supposed maize flowers. And there's been suggestion that Jomon pottery forms have been found in Meso-America as well--though, not with a lot of support.

What does blow some minds are the theories that the Inca visited the Galapagos and Easter Islands--and possibly the Azores.

While there are a LOT of theories out there, none of these supposed contacts has been confirmed with any real scholarly weight. But, they make for fun theorizing and tale spinning.

Those Olmec heads look Polynesian to me, or some kind of Orientialishness.

So far, the only proven pre-Columbian contact with North America is the Viking settlement at L'anse aux Meadows in "Vinland" or as we now call it Canadia, around 1200-1300 AD.

There is undated and unreliable evidence for Chinese contact in California and Mesoamerica about the same time; but the Chinese had an awesome navy then, and certainly had the means to reach the West Coast. And while it's not likely the Romans would have ever made it--they never had much of a merchant fleet--the Phonecians could have reached the Azores easily and had the means and were good and greedy enough sailors to try for lands farther west. There's not a bit of evidence for it, but it's entirely possible.

However, the reason we know they probably didn't is the horrible impact that the diseases Columbus's sailors brought had upon the Native Americans when they did arrive. A previously exposed population would not have had such a terrible and deadly reaction.


Just to clarify, the L'anse aux Meadows colony dates from 1,000 AD.
 
2010-12-29 09:25:39 PM
Mock26: Gyrfalcon: Nappy Imus: hubiestubert: This is a man who promotes a religion whose main texts were given to a guy by an angel by the name of Moroni. Moron-i. Apparently, Mr. Smith was visited by a dumb Italian angel with a-horrible accent...

Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

Mind you--there is some evidence that suggests possible Polynesian contact that was Pre-Columbian. As well as the Tolucca Valley terra cotta head that suggests possible Roman contact--possibly through the Phoenicians--dated for 800BC-1270AD, but there is question of authenticity, and whether or not it was planted there. Likewise, there have been supposed amphorae supposedly found off the coast of Brazil, but likewise, may have been a deliberate hoax.

Then there's the Bat Creek and Los Lunas Decalogue Stone, which suggest Jewish contact in Pre-Columbian times, which should make the LDS heads asplode. And the Olmec statuary that has long been suggested show an African presence in Meso-America long before Whitey showed up. And then later suggested contact by the Mali in the early 1300s.

The Olmecs have also been theorized by some to have had contact with the Chinese towards the end of the Shang Dynasty. And the legends of Fusang have been suggested show contact with California. And likewise, there has been suggested Indian contact as well, for similarities in some paintings of supposed maize flowers. And there's been suggestion that Jomon pottery forms have been found in Meso-America as well--though, not with a lot of support.

What does blow some minds are the theories that the Inca visited the Galapagos and Easter Islands--and possibly the Azores.

While there are a LOT of theories out there, none of these supposed contacts has been confirmed with any real scholarly weight. But, they make for fun theorizing and tale spinning.

Those Olmec heads look Polynesian to me, or some kind of Orientialishness.

So far, the only proven pre-Columbian contact with North America is the Viking settlement at L'anse aux Meadows in "Vinland" or as we now call it Canadia, around 1200-1300 AD.

There is undated and unreliable evidence for Chinese contact in California and Mesoamerica about the same time; but the Chinese had an awesome navy then, and certainly had the means to reach the West Coast. And while it's not likely the Romans would have ever made it--they never had much of a merchant fleet--the Phonecians could have reached the Azores easily and had the means and were good and greedy enough sailors to try for lands farther west. There's not a bit of evidence for it, but it's entirely possible.

However, the reason we know they probably didn't is the horrible impact that the diseases Columbus's sailors brought had upon the Native Americans when they did arrive. A previously exposed population would not have had such a terrible and deadly reaction.

Just to clarify, the L'anse aux Meadows colony dates from 1,000 AD.


Indeed.
 
2010-12-29 09:28:19 PM
ninjakirby: thunderbird8804: superman82: As a Mormon, I would really appreciate it if Glenn Beck would shut his pie hole and stop embarrassing the rest of us.

Trust me, you hardly need Glenn Beck's help to be an embarrassment, you've managed that all on your own.

Tut tut. The vast majority of Mormons keep their personal derp well in check. Beck and Romney are the only two in public life I'm aware of and of the two, Romney doesn't even bring it up.

/Sentence not valid in California public elections.


I'd say I'm sorry (but I won't because I'm not), but that people have bought into such an astoundingly inept con, for so long and in such large numbers, is an embarrassment to our species. For these people I have naught but scorn and defiance, slight regard, contempt, and anyone who cares even an iota for the Mormons, or for truth, should be honest and brave enough to say it directly to them.

/the credulousness is bad enough, but legislation such as prop 8 adds to the crime
//veiling the con and the bigotry in a wholesome family dynamic adds further still
 
2010-12-29 09:40:49 PM
thunderbird8804: or these people I have naught but scorn and defiance, slight regard, contempt, and anyone who cares even an iota for the Mormons, or for truth, should be honest and brave enough to say it directly to them.

Oh I know, I just spent four days with them. But for such gloriously deluded people, they're also some of the nicest.
 
2010-12-29 09:43:30 PM
ninjakirby [TotalFark] Quote 2010-12-29 09:40:49 PM

Oh I know, I just spent four days with them. But for such gloriously deluded people, they're also some of the nicest.

>>>>

Ever played on an opposing team @ the Jazz?
 
2010-12-29 09:59:29 PM
FeatheredSun: Most Mormons I have known are awesome people. Their church has some definite weird lore. But they work with it as they can like the followers of almost any faith.

i believe your opinion is correct. however, why do they, as persons needing a strong social network, still cling to such an absurd and obviously false theology?
 
2010-12-29 10:12:56 PM
hubiestubert: Can't let the trolls have all the fun, now can I?

no you can't :D

cameroncrazy1984: And I'm glad I'm not the only one who couldn't watch it because it was utter bullshiat.

I watched it, just to see how bad it would get.
 
2010-12-29 10:19:56 PM
www.i4m.com

And here it is! The words of Joseph Smith himself! (Umm ignore that pre-history about him being a con man in new-york & warrant for his arrest etc...he found RELIGION after that...so he's cool)

How Joseph Smith changed the word (new window)

/Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum
 
2010-12-29 10:20:05 PM
tomosoos: FeatheredSun: Most Mormons I have known are awesome people. Their church has some definite weird lore. But they work with it as they can like the followers of almost any faith.

i believe your opinion is correct. however, why do they, as persons needing a strong social network, still cling to such an absurd and obviously false theology?


That's just like your opinion, man.
/Insert Jeff Bridges picture.
 
2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM
thunderbird8804: ninjakirby: thunderbird8804: superman82: As a Mormon, I would really appreciate it if Glenn Beck would shut his pie hole and stop embarrassing the rest of us.

Trust me, you hardly need Glenn Beck's help to be an embarrassment, you've managed that all on your own.

Tut tut. The vast majority of Mormons keep their personal derp well in check. Beck and Romney are the only two in public life I'm aware of and of the two, Romney doesn't even bring it up.

/Sentence not valid in California public elections.

I'd say I'm sorry (but I won't because I'm not), but that people have bought into such an astoundingly inept con, for so long and in such large numbers, is an embarrassment to our species. For these people I have naught but scorn and defiance, slight regard, contempt, and anyone who cares even an iota for the Mormons, or for truth, should be honest and brave enough to say it directly to them.

/the credulousness is bad enough, but legislation such as prop 8 adds to the crime
//veiling the con and the bigotry in a wholesome family dynamic adds further still


And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us. Seriously, the early mormons were mostly about 'Leave us the fark alone'. Why do you think they went out in the middle of nowhere? And even then people followed them.
 
2010-12-29 10:31:52 PM
This seems strangely appropriate for this topic, I don't know why...

i391.photobucket.com
 
2010-12-29 10:32:54 PM
Poison Appleseeds: This is the kind of crap they are passing off as a show on the "History" channel nowadays. 30 seconds of some random person saying alot of people don't believe this stuff, and the rest of the show trying yo convince you it just might be possible. "hey, were just saying."

Oh man, if you check out "History International" channel, it's like that, times ten. Basically every time I turn it on, it's them trying to corroborate things from the Bible. They never find anything that proves anything one way or the other, of course.

The one about Sodom and Gamorrah(sp?) was particularly hilarious to me.
 
2010-12-29 10:34:24 PM
Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.
 
2010-12-29 10:45:05 PM
Kinek:
And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us. Seriously, the early mormons were mostly about 'Leave us the fark alone'. Why do you think they went out in the middle of nowhere? And even then people followed them.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
-Thomas Jefferson-
 
2010-12-29 10:46:29 PM
Big Al: Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.


I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your government spent millions of dollars about a hundred years ago being pissed about polygamy in a middle of nowhere territory.

Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.
 
2010-12-29 10:49:12 PM
Kinek:
I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.


I know! Why couldn't we just leave those Mormons alone to practice their misogyny and racism in peace!
 
2010-12-29 10:53:37 PM
Kali-Yuga: Kinek:
And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us. Seriously, the early mormons were mostly about 'Leave us the fark alone'. Why do you think they went out in the middle of nowhere? And even then people followed them.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
-Thomas Jefferson-


Ridicule is a weak weapon when pointed at a strong mind; but common people are cowards and dread an empty laugh.
Martin Farquhar Tupper
 
2010-12-29 10:58:09 PM
Kali-Yuga: Kinek:
I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

I know! Why couldn't we just leave those Mormons alone to practice their misogyny and racism in peace!


Damn! I wasn't aware that the rest of the United states had equal rights, equal voting, no Jim crow laws, and no lynch mobs in 1900, and the Mormons were an island of misogyny and racism in a sea of tolerance and understanding. You sure showed me that they were an exception in their time.
 
2010-12-29 11:03:46 PM
Kinek: Kali-Yuga: Kinek:
And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us. Seriously, the early mormons were mostly about 'Leave us the fark alone'. Why do you think they went out in the middle of nowhere? And even then people followed them.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
-Thomas Jefferson-

Ridicule is a weak weapon when pointed at a strong mind; but common people are cowards and dread an empty laugh.
Martin Farquhar Tupper


Goonie goo goo, Gus.
-Eddie Murphy
 
2010-12-29 11:06:36 PM
Mock26: Kinek: Kali-Yuga: Kinek:
And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us. Seriously, the early mormons were mostly about 'Leave us the fark alone'. Why do you think they went out in the middle of nowhere? And even then people followed them.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
-Thomas Jefferson-

Ridicule is a weak weapon when pointed at a strong mind; but common people are cowards and dread an empty laugh.
Martin Farquhar Tupper

Goonie goo goo, Gus.
-Eddie Murphy


And this is my partner, Ovaltine Jenkins
-Shawn Spencer
 
2010-12-29 11:08:43 PM
Kinek: Big Al: Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.

I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your government spent millions of dollars about a hundred years ago being pissed about polygamy in a middle of nowhere territory.

Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.


Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum!

"The Smith family supplemented its meager farm income by treasure-digging,[17] likewise relatively common in contemporary New England.[18] Joseph claimed an ability to use seer stones for locating lost items and buried treasure.[19] To do so, Smith would put a stone in a white stovepipe hat and would then see the required information in reflections given off by the stone.

Smith continued traveling western New York and Pennsylvania, being paid to search for precious metals;[25] in 1826, he was tried in Chenango County, New York, for the crime of pretending to find lost treasure.[26]"
Link (new window)

Con man from his early days....

Where's your Messiah now???

www.grouchyoldcripple.com
 
2010-12-29 11:12:12 PM
Kinek:
Damn! I wasn't aware that the rest of the United states had equal rights, equal voting, no Jim crow laws, and no lynch mobs in 1900, and the Mormons were an island of misogyny and racism in a sea of tolerance and understanding. You sure showed me that they were an exception in their time.


1978 is a little different than 1900.

What a coincidence that as the IRS was threatening to remove tax exempt status from the church and University sports teams were refusing to travel to and play Utah teams that God chose that moment to change his mind on the whole racism thing.

Possibility one: The church was right when it claimed blacks are a cursed race. The church has now fallen into apostasy by abandoning that idea.

Possibility two: The church was wrong when it claimed blacks are a cursed race. The doctrine was never inspired by God to begin with. If Brigham Young--God's mouthpiece--was dead wrong about an idea he so staunchly and steadfastly promoted as God's true doctrine, then it is perfectly reasonable to think any prophet, at any time, could be wrong about anything.

Possibility three: The church was right about blacks being cursed, but as it turns out, God doesn't like seeing the church get negative publicity any more than Hinckley does. He therefore instructed the church's mortal leaders to phase out the racist doctrine, despite the fact that the doctrine was true.

Which one is it?
 
2010-12-29 11:14:05 PM
The Life Of Brian: Kinek: Big Al: Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.

I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your government spent millions of dollars about a hundred years ago being pissed about polygamy in a middle of nowhere territory.

Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.

Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum!

"The Smith family supplemented its meager farm income by treasure-digging,[17] likewise relatively common in contemporary New England.[18] Joseph claimed an ability to use seer stones for locating lost items and buried treasure.[19] To do so, Smith would put a stone in a white stovepipe hat and would then see the required information in reflections given off by the stone.

Smith continued traveling western New York and Pennsylvania, being paid to search for precious metals;[25] in 1826, he was tried in Chenango County, New York, for the crime of pretending to find lost treasure.[26]"
Link (new window)

Con man from his early days....

Where's your Messiah now???


Wow. That was pithy and related to my post entirely. Good on you for changing the argument! And on stuff that I already know and have good reason to discount. Go you!
 
2010-12-29 11:20:15 PM
Kinek: Big Al: Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.

I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your government spent millions of dollars about a hundred years ago being pissed about polygamy in a middle of nowhere territory.

Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.


Your donations are active bigotry. You can church it up all you want, but at least have the balls to admit your organization was engaged in discrimination of a class of people. Mormons just want to be left alone so they can judge and discriminate against others apparently.

Your entire argument was that bigots attack mormons. How so? I don't see anyone campaigning to get rid of mormons. When someone pointed out that mormons actively engaged in present day bigotry you got pretty defensive.
 
2010-12-29 11:27:36 PM
Kali-Yuga: Kinek:
Damn! I wasn't aware that the rest of the United states had equal rights, equal voting, no Jim crow laws, and no lynch mobs in 1900, and the Mormons were an island of misogyny and racism in a sea of tolerance and understanding. You sure showed me that they were an exception in their time.

1978 is a little different than 1900.

What a coincidence that as the IRS was threatening to remove tax exempt status from the church and University sports teams were refusing to travel to and play Utah teams that God chose that moment to change his mind on the whole racism thing.

Possibility one: The church was right when it claimed blacks are a cursed race. The church has now fallen into apostasy by abandoning that idea.

Possibility two: The church was wrong when it claimed blacks are a cursed race. The doctrine was never inspired by God to begin with. If Brigham Young--God's mouthpiece--was dead wrong about an idea he so staunchly and steadfastly promoted as God's true doctrine, then it is perfectly reasonable to think any prophet, at any time, could be wrong about anything.

Possibility three: The church was right about blacks being cursed, but as it turns out, God doesn't like seeing the church get negative publicity any more than Hinckley does. He therefore instructed the church's mortal leaders to phase out the racist doctrine, despite the fact that the doctrine was true.

Which one is it?


/Would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2010-12-29 11:30:03 PM
Kinek: Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.


Well I have some Bishops and a stake pres in the family tree (some even in California) and how it worked was the church leadership called up all the members, or called them into interviews, and told them to donate to prop 8. So, yeah, maybe technically "The Church" didn't donate that much, and "the members acting as individuals" donated, but in reality, it was dictated from the top. In some cases, even down to the amounts the leaders wanted each member to donate. Yes, really.
 
2010-12-29 11:33:36 PM
Nappy Imus: Rambino: SharkTrager: Rambino: hubiestubert: Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

How is that any crazier than converting to any other religion?

To be honest, one big reason is that most religions suffer from lack of tangible evidence of their legitimacy, while Mormonism suffers from significant tangible evidence that Smith was a fraud.


... and every other religion doesn't suffer from significant tangible evidence that they are frauds?

Really?

So this guy goes out into the wilderness for awhile and comes back to claim that he spoke with angels that no one but him can see. Was he

A: Moses
B: Jesus
C: Mohammad
D: Joseph Smith
E: All of the Above


F: Both C and D
 
2010-12-29 11:35:52 PM
It's funny Mormons desperately trying to frame themselves as being persecuted like Jews.
 
2010-12-29 11:43:05 PM
Nappy Imus: So this guy goes out into the wilderness for awhile and comes back to claim that he spoke with angels that no one but him can see. Was he

A: Moses
B: Jesus
C: Mohammad
D: Joseph Smith
E: All of the Above


F: All of the above, who were suffering from an undiagnosed Schizo-affective disorder.

Auditory and visual hallucinations, paranoia, bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social and occupational dysfunction are typical among those suffering from Schizo-affective disorder
 
2010-12-29 11:43:19 PM
Kali-Yuga: Kinek:
Damn! I wasn't aware that the rest of the United states had equal rights, equal voting, no Jim crow laws, and no lynch mobs in 1900, and the Mormons were an island of misogyny and racism in a sea of tolerance and understanding. You sure showed me that they were an exception in their time.

1978 is a little different than 1900.

What a coincidence that as the IRS was threatening to remove tax exempt status from the church and University sports teams were refusing to travel to and play Utah teams that God chose that moment to change his mind on the whole racism thing.

Possibility one: The church was right when it claimed blacks are a cursed race. The church has now fallen into apostasy by abandoning that idea.

Possibility two: The church was wrong when it claimed blacks are a cursed race. The doctrine was never inspired by God to begin with. If Brigham Young--God's mouthpiece--was dead wrong about an idea he so staunchly and steadfastly promoted as God's true doctrine, then it is perfectly reasonable to think any prophet, at any time, could be wrong about anything.

Possibility three: The church was right about blacks being cursed, but as it turns out, God doesn't like seeing the church get negative publicity any more than Hinckley does. He therefore instructed the church's mortal leaders to phase out the racist doctrine, despite the fact that the doctrine was true.

Which one is it?


None of them. I go with possibility 4.

Blacks in the church were not to get the priesthood, there was no ban on joining. Shortly before 1978, say 1970, being black was Shiatty in America (still is). Being mormon in america was also Shiatty. Being a black mormon was extra extra shiatty. Honestly, who would join and get double the hate? There are a variety of reasons why this policy made sense at the time. My personal theological reasoning stems from the above. When one gets the priesthood and goes to the temple, you basically get a 'If you turn your back on this at this point after everything has been told, you will be held more responsible than the average person, even inside the church' spiel. Retention rates for black converts in the church was awful previous to even Brigham young. Why would you force people into a position where they have additional responsibility, but will get shiat on by all sides and most probably leave and be under greater condemnation than before. Plus, there were not many exclusively black areas previous to 1978. Africa really opened up to mormonism in the 80's, before then, members were isolated and were mostly incidental. Why place someone at greater risk when you don't have to. So once the tide of opinion had shifted, and just being mormon was shiatty and being black was less shiatty, go right ahead.

Think back to the OT and remember that only the tribe of Levi had the priesthood, but everyone benefited. It's like that. Everyone was an israelite though.

Wikipedia has an article on this, and it seems to express the same point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

Note that what a prophet says in private may just be an opinion. Brigham was sorta racist, it's true. But that's why there's more than just a prophet in charge. Councils and quorums to iron this stuff out.
 
2010-12-29 11:45:23 PM
Kinek: Damn! I wasn't aware that the rest of the United states had equal rights, equal voting, no Jim crow laws, and no lynch mobs in 1900, and the Mormons were an island of misogyny and racism in a sea of tolerance and understanding. You sure showed me that they were an exception in their time.

As a bigamist, I'm upset that the Mormons have given up the only thing with which I agreed with them.
 
2010-12-29 11:47:08 PM
nostratic: hubiestubert: This is a man who promotes a religion whose main texts were given to a guy by an angel by the name of Moroni. Moron-i. Apparently, Mr. Smith was visited by a dumb Italian angel with a-horrible accent...

The most plausible theory I'm aware of for the origin of the angel Moroni's name is that J. Smith was familiar with tales of Captain Kidd's adventures on some tropical islands with a city called Moroni.

Dreadskull: Isn't that the crime Joseph Smith was convicted of in New York, hiding shiat in the ground and then pretending to have magic treasure finding powers so he could dig it up later?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're probably thinking of the Kinderhook plates, which were frauds intended to make J. Smith look like a fool; Q.E.D.


Guess I was talking about that peep stoning thingy. Before Joe was a prophet he made cash by tricking people into believing he had the ability to divine buried treasure by looking at rocks in a hat.

Seems like he wasn't the only one trying to defraud people with fake archaeological treasure.

So anyway, who else is excited about Big Love season 5?!
 
2010-12-29 11:47:46 PM
saintc79: Kinek: Big Al: Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.

I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your government spent millions of dollars about a hundred years ago being pissed about polygamy in a middle of nowhere territory.

Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.

Your donations are active bigotry. You can church it up all you want, but at least have the balls to admit your organization was engaged in discrimination of a class of people. Mormons just want to be left alone so they can judge and discriminate against others apparently.

Your entire argument was that bigots attack mormons. How so? I don't see anyone campaigning to get rid of mormons. When someone pointed out that mormons actively engaged in present day bigotry you got pretty defensive.


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705347834/Utahns-back-anti-bias-laws-in-jobs - housing-poll-finds.html

It seems that Mormons just don't like the marriage thing. 70% still is a little low, but C'mon.
 
2010-12-29 11:50:08 PM
etoof: I have determined, after extensive surveying, tabulation, and data analysis, that the average creationist in the US earns $21,387.29 in family income; owns 1.2 cars, 1.8 TVs, and 2.3 kids; and has, at some point in his life, answered to the name "Bubba." He has less than one year of college. Yet he knows more about paleontology than Bakker or Horner or Currie (or he thinks that what they know is wrong-same thing). He knows more about the definition of evolution than Gould or Dawkins. He knows more about biology than Dobzhansky or Mayr. He knows more about cosmology than Hawking, Smoot, or Witten, and more about human fossils than Johanson or the Leakeys. He knows more "true" geology than geologists, more physics than physicists, more astronomy than astronomers-and more about everything than atheists like Asimov or Sagan.

Humble, they're not.


You owe me both a new glass of Coke Zero, and a new keyboard. I clap at you, Sir.
 
2010-12-29 11:56:39 PM
UNC_Samurai: Beck went on to say the stones were purposely kept out of history books by the government and the Smithsonian Institution.

No, that sort of idiotic historical hackery is usually reserved for the new History Channel.


This. More like the History Falsification Channel these days. Of course, that has a wee bit too many syllables in it for their target audience.

/Wants his 2-hour scholarly documentaries on Alexander the Great's use of horse and mixed brigades, narrated by 80-year-old Englishmen, back
 
2010-12-29 11:56:55 PM
saintc79: Kinek: Big Al: Kinek Quote 2010-12-29 10:28:40 PM

And masking your bigotry in logic and reason isn't just as repulsive? Even if Utah was somewhere completely different and you never had to interact with a mormon ever again, I'd suspect that you, and people like you, would still find some way to biatch about us.

>>>

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your church spent millions trying to defeat Prop 8 in California.

I said early. Not current. About the time Utah became a state, the possibility of being left the fark alone had long since been destroyed with the polygamy raids.

Your rant is so ironic and hypocritical when your government spent millions of dollars about a hundred years ago being pissed about polygamy in a middle of nowhere territory.

Also, remind me when any person in an organization that you belong to donates any money to something I disagree with. I'd like to call you a hypocrite.

P.S. The church spent minimal amounts of money on that. Members did what members do. They had an opinion and donated to it.

Your donations are active bigotry. You can church it up all you want, but at least have the balls to admit your organization was engaged in discrimination of a class of people. Mormons just want to be left alone so they can judge and discriminate against others apparently.

Your entire argument was that bigots attack mormons. How so? I don't see anyone campaigning to get rid of mormons. When someone pointed out that mormons actively engaged in present day bigotry you got pretty defensive.


You obviously missed your U.S. history lesson. Expellation from Illinois, New York, Missouri, The Utah war. These were real things. Things are better now, but these attitudes don't go away. The belief that an entire class of people, as was expressed above, deserve scorn and need to be taught better is no better than thinking 'Them uppity brown people need to be taught that their way of thinking is wrong, cause I'm right'. Hence my opinion expressed that it's bigotry. Sorry If I'm defensive, but I put up with this on a semi-regular basis on Fark.
 
2010-12-29 11:57:53 PM
Kinek: Note that what a prophet says in private may just be an opinion. Brigham was sorta racist, it's true. But that's why there's more than just a prophet in charge. Councils and quorums to iron this stuff out.

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

"We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Yeah those public sermons collected in the Journal of Discourses sure were Brigham Young's "private thoughts"
 
2010-12-29 11:59:21 PM
WhyteRaven74: WhyteRaven74: Ric

= Rice


and here I just thought you were doing the Ric Romero thing on Fark :p
 
Displayed 50 of 248 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report