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(Dispatch)   Glenn Beck: The government does not want you to know the truth about historical artifacts supporting my paranoid Mormon fantasies. Historian: shut up   (dispatch.com) divider line 248
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23187 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2010 at 5:11 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-29 05:47:34 PM
FTFA: "Any suggestion that the scholars' remarks were edited in order to use them in support of a claim they did not express support for in their interview is specious," Stout, Smoot and McLerran said in a statement.

He used a five dollar word. So it has to be true.
 
2010-12-29 05:47:41 PM
sayke: Sadly, I know a lot of people who would eat this sh*t up. They're the kind who believe archaeologists are just people who look for proof of Noah's ark.

+1 for spelling archaeologists right.

I heart archaeologists. I used to want to be one, have been when on my own in the back-country, and still might be...p...h...d...

Anything's possible, folks.

Anything.

;)
 
2010-12-29 05:57:37 PM
TheFredSavages: yeah... Moroni? That names rings with insincerity-- it sounds so made up. I would have believed most anything else...

th891.photobucket.com

The Angel Moroni is the patron saint of my fargin' family, you somanubiatch icehole!

/Bastich!
 
2010-12-29 05:58:34 PM
I think it's funny that the conflict is over some fraudulent Hebrew artifact buried in an ancient Native American archeological site to be dug up later by a Mormon charlatan.

Isn't that the crime Joseph Smith was convicted of in New York, hiding shiat in the ground and then pretending to have magic treasure finding powers so he could dig it up later?

Isn't that the premise of his whole bullshiat religion? That he dug up some magic golden plates written in Egyptian that told him Space-Jesus wanted him to have multiple wives and that black people were unworthy of having souls? Of course no one else was allowed to see the plates.

And then there was this thing where he bought up some Egyptian scrolls and pretended he could translate them and later a bunch of Egyptian scholars who could actually read them went back and checked his bogus translation and pretty much debunked his whole bullshiat religion.

It just seems a little obvious. I mean if they're going to pretend they aren't racist polygamists, why not back away from the fraud angle? It just looks bad.

/they still officially hate gay people though
 
2010-12-29 05:58:44 PM
MAYORBOB: Was this tha fargin' bastidge callin' himself tha Angel Moroni?

fark!
 
2010-12-29 05:59:07 PM
snowjack: FTFA: "Any suggestion that the scholars' remarks were edited in order to use them in support of a claim they did not express support for in their interview is specious," Stout, Smoot and McLerran said in a statement.

He used a five dollar word. So it has to be true.


Nah.

Fifty cents, at best.

;)
 
2010-12-29 06:00:07 PM
High School History: you just have to be very discerning.)

I'm a big fan of Modern Marvels, it is fluff, but it doesn't pretend to not be. And it is well made and I've never caught them presenting some old tale as actual history, they present it as what it is.

Now Ancient Aliens? The horror, the horror. And Discovery Channel's The Story of Us, was to be polite an abortion of history.

/can't wait for tonight, Modern Marvels: Ric
 
2010-12-29 06:00:14 PM
SharkTrager: Rambino: hubiestubert: Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

How is that any crazier than converting to any other religion?

To be honest, one big reason is that most religions suffer from lack of tangible evidence of their legitimacy, while Mormonism suffers from significant tangible evidence that Smith was a fraud.


... and every other religion doesn't suffer from significant tangible evidence that they are frauds?

Really?
 
2010-12-29 06:02:06 PM
WhyteRaven74: Ric

= Rice
 
2010-12-29 06:02:31 PM
P.S. Mormons are the best example of religion's speciousness. Period. Read that twice, thrice, and ad infinitum.

P.P.S. Process at yer leisure. ;)
 
2010-12-29 06:02:33 PM
i hear he's starting a ministry, cult, church.
 
2010-12-29 06:03:36 PM
I'm also an Ohioan with a passing interest in the Earthworks. Took a fun field trip with a friend of mine to see the Serpent Mound last year. She sort of featured it in this urban fantasy novel (new window) she wrote (it's a good read if you're into that sort of thing).
 
2010-12-29 06:06:45 PM
FTFA: Others, including most archaeologists, believe the stones are a fraud, carved in modern times and hidden in the earthworks for Wyrick to find.

Like the Devil did with dinosaur bones?
 
2010-12-29 06:08:18 PM
The only "old world" people who came here are from asia and they got here by boat and walking the then alaskan land bridge.Those are the ancenstors of native americans.

The only other old world people who came here were the Vikings in 1000 AD. And that was just for a hundred or so years stay in Canada. They left Canada because like everyone else they thought it sucked.
 
2010-12-29 06:12:30 PM
To be honest, this headline could be written: "Glenn Beck: blah blah blah. Every rational mind on the planet: shut up" and it would work every day.
 
2010-12-29 06:14:16 PM
yep, i'm ever more convinced that so-called "freedom of religion" is a way to justify the hallucinatory rhetoric of shyster mystics, the inchoate ramblings of schizo-affective dreamers and is the tattered flag with which the most regressive aspects of society mange to cocoon themselves. the beliefs being protected by said freedom are so questionable as to call into question the overall validity of the culture which cherishes them. that it justifies such irredeemable quackery is reason enough to consider abolishing it altogether.

/love the bastich references
 
2010-12-29 06:16:16 PM
CtrlAltDelete: As an Ohio resident myself, I'm pretty fascinated by the Hopewell and Adena cultures- and through extensive research and living among the Ohio people for some time now, I have concluded that The Moundbuilders were bored out of their goddamn minds and had nothing else to do.



Interesting fact: They have opened some of the burial mounds and found over 20,000 arrow heads in them.
 
2010-12-29 06:16:54 PM
Rambino: SharkTrager: Rambino: hubiestubert: Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

How is that any crazier than converting to any other religion?

To be honest, one big reason is that most religions suffer from lack of tangible evidence of their legitimacy, while Mormonism suffers from significant tangible evidence that Smith was a fraud.


... and every other religion doesn't suffer from significant tangible evidence that they are frauds?

Really?


To be fair, many religions have been around long enough that the evidence of them being pulled out of people's asses has been lost to history.
 
2010-12-29 06:17:29 PM
hubiestubert: This is a man who promotes a religion whose main texts were given to a guy by an angel by the name of Moroni. Moron-i. Apparently, Mr. Smith was visited by a dumb Italian angel with a-horrible accent...

Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

Mind you--there is some evidence that suggests possible Polynesian contact that was Pre-Columbian. As well as the Tolucca Valley terra cotta head that suggests possible Roman contact--possibly through the Phoenicians--dated for 800BC-1270AD, but there is question of authenticity, and whether or not it was planted there. Likewise, there have been supposed amphorae supposedly found off the coast of Brazil, but likewise, may have been a deliberate hoax.

Then there's the Bat Creek and Los Lunas Decalogue Stone, which suggest Jewish contact in Pre-Columbian times, which should make the LDS heads asplode. And the Olmec statuary that has long been suggested show an African presence in Meso-America long before Whitey showed up. And then later suggested contact by the Mali in the early 1300s.

The Olmecs have also been theorized by some to have had contact with the Chinese towards the end of the Shang Dynasty. And the legends of Fusang have been suggested show contact with California. And likewise, there has been suggested Indian contact as well, for similarities in some paintings of supposed maize flowers. And there's been suggestion that Jomon pottery forms have been found in Meso-America as well--though, not with a lot of support.

What does blow some minds are the theories that the Inca visited the Galapagos and Easter Islands--and possibly the Azores.

While there are a LOT of theories out there, none of these supposed contacts has been confirmed with any real scholarly weight. But, they make for fun theorizing and tale spinning.


zzzz..ZZZZZ...
 
2010-12-29 06:18:32 PM
Samwise Gamgee: hubiestubert:

Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

I was raised as a Mormon who left the church at 15 years old. For a few years, I tried to settle into a new religion. Know what I found out?

Every religion is crazy.

For example, for comparison:

Mormons believe they existed in Heaven before life on earth, and will someday become gods/goddesses of their own worlds.

Catholics believe that the wheat crackers and wine they drink literally turn into the body and blood of a Jewish man who (debatably) lived in Israel 2,000 years ago.

Jews believe that a bone in the neck will act as a seed at the end of days that will allow everyone to be resurrected and walk again, wearing the same clothes as when they were alive.

Mainstream Protestant flavors believe that giant beasts with multiple heads will scour the earth. And that a sword will fly out of a man's mouth, after the faithfully religious float up into the sky, to relax in a place where people do nothing but praise Jesus for ever and ever, and the streets are paved with gold (which is only valuable in reality due to its scarcity - it's only formed in supernovas, after all).

Needless to say, I quickly became an atheist. The rest of my family followed a few years later.


I was pointing out more the fact that he did it all for the nookie, the nookie, the nookie...
 
2010-12-29 06:19:06 PM
Personally, I like the Mormons. They are always very nice when they come by my house. Though, last time, they wouldn't give me a free Book of Mormon. They said I had to come to the Temple and meet with them to get one. I farked with them a little bit about the stone in the hat translation of golden plates, but I didn't ask about the sacred underwear. They were way more easy going than my Dad who is waiting to be Raptured. He doesn't like it when I fark with him on that.
 
2010-12-29 06:20:30 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.
 
2010-12-29 06:22:43 PM
WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.

What's the puzzle? Captain Picard did a slingshot maneuver around the sun to battle the Borg way back in Earth's history. During the battle, a transporter accident created a clone of him, who lived out the remainder of his life on Earth and became the Kennewick man.
 
2010-12-29 06:22:43 PM
Everyone knows why this issue is soooo important to Beck and Mormons in general, right? The Book of Mormon, "another testament of Jesus Christ", is the foundation upon which the LDS church stands. Its main tenet has been the book's account of Jews from the Old World that came to the New World circa 600BC in little covered pod-like boats and populated North and South America. (That's where American Indians came from, don't ya know.)

Today, DNA technology has thrown a huge wrench into the whole scenario. All genetic testing to date has shown that Native Americans are descendants of Asian peoples that came east to the Americas thousands of years ago. The LDS church has had its magic underwear in a bunch over the issue and will do/say almost anything to squelch the controversy. My favorite defense is: "Well, we never said ALL of the peoples in the BofM were of Jewish descent... maybe only a small percentage were [I've heard some say 3%]... and they lived concurrently with the Asian immigrants." NO, MORMONS, YOU DID SAY THAT. You've always said that. It's the main story of Mormonism.

BYU has a whole department of apologists... FARMS (google it)... working on the strangest theories you've ever heard to explain away this pesky matter of genetics. They're all paranoid, especially Beck and his pseudo-I'm-for-all-religions ruse, that if the crux of the Book of Mormon is discredited, the whole church goes down with it.

/sorry if that's all common knowledge and I'm belaboring the point
//didn't spell check... gotta run
 
2010-12-29 06:23:25 PM
hubiestubert: he did it all for the nookie, the nookie, the nookie...

You really want to be hated around here don't you? ;)
 
2010-12-29 06:24:04 PM
WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.

Picard?
 
2010-12-29 06:25:06 PM
He's Mormon?

Alright, time to add another name to my Mormon on mormon hit list (Sure, it's wrong to murder, but I'll take the hit for the good of all)
 
2010-12-29 06:25:47 PM
t3knomanser: who lived out the remainder of his life on Earth and became the Kennewick man.

*golf clap* I was hoping for something like that
 
2010-12-29 06:26:17 PM
HomoHabilis: if the crux of the Book of Mormon is discredited, the whole church goes down with it.

HERETIC! I put a fatwa on you!

/amirite?
 
2010-12-29 06:26:48 PM
HomoHabilis: that if the crux of the Book of Mormon is discredited, the whole church goes down with it.

You would think, but then again, when Smith's assistant's wife stole the transcription and challenged Smith to reproduce it, Smith's reply was that the angels had rearranged the text on his magic plates that nobody was allowed to see ever, so he couldn't produce the same document twice.
 
2010-12-29 06:27:58 PM
I attended BYU and I have found that Mormons are liars about virtually everything. How else can you keep up such a weird reality? It worked fine when Mormons were an agrarian isolated people but we all live in the 21st century. That stuff does not work any more. Worse, most of them know it but have no integrity to call it for what it is.

Glenn Beck is not indicitive of most members of the LDS church. He will crash and burn. I would watch Mitt Romney. He is more mainstream and of course will say anything to get elected.
 
2010-12-29 06:28:21 PM
hubiestubert: Samwise Gamgee: hubiestubert:

Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

I was raised as a Mormon who left the church at 15 years old. For a few years, I tried to settle into a new religion. Know what I found out?

Every religion is crazy.

For example, for comparison:

Mormons believe they existed in Heaven before life on earth, and will someday become gods/goddesses of their own worlds.

Catholics believe that the wheat crackers and wine they drink literally turn into the body and blood of a Jewish man who (debatably) lived in Israel 2,000 years ago.

Jews believe that a bone in the neck will act as a seed at the end of days that will allow everyone to be resurrected and walk again, wearing the same clothes as when they were alive.

Mainstream Protestant flavors believe that giant beasts with multiple heads will scour the earth. And that a sword will fly out of a man's mouth, after the faithfully religious float up into the sky, to relax in a place where people do nothing but praise Jesus for ever and ever, and the streets are paved with gold (which is only valuable in reality due to its scarcity - it's only formed in supernovas, after all).

Needless to say, I quickly became an atheist. The rest of my family followed a few years later.

I was pointing out more the fact that he did it all for the nookie, the nookie, the nookie...


So? He was guy who just happened to have a really great pick up line.
 
2010-12-29 06:35:19 PM
Most Mormons I have known are awesome people. Their church has some definite weird lore. But they work with it as they can like the followers of almost any faith.
 
2010-12-29 06:36:44 PM
WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.

Jean-Luc Picard?
 
2010-12-29 06:38:58 PM
If TFA had put the last line (Beck's program did not respond to requests for comment) at the beginning instead of the end, it would have saved me a bunch of reading.
 
2010-12-29 06:45:36 PM
theknuckler_33: TheFredSavages: yeah... Moroni? That names rings with insincerity-- it sounds so made up. I would have believed most anything else...



The Angel Moroni is the patron saint of my fargin' family, you somanubiatch icehole!

/Bastich!


wow. well done. that was good
 
2010-12-29 06:45:43 PM
volodya: I attended BYU and I have found that Mormons are liars about virtually everything. How else can you keep up such a weird reality? It worked fine when Mormons were an agrarian isolated people but we all live in the 21st century. That stuff does not work any more. Worse, most of them know it but have no integrity to call it for what it is.

Glenn Beck is not indicitive of most members of the LDS church. He will crash and burn. I would watch Mitt Romney. He is more mainstream and of course will say anything to get elected.


Who!
who! who!

Who!
who! who!

Who let the dogs out!
 
2010-12-29 06:50:29 PM
Rambino: SharkTrager: Rambino: hubiestubert: Yes, I have trouble with folks who convert to Mormonism. Folks born to the church? They can't help their parents, and the TFettes I know who are Mormons, well, to be fair, they're all on the outs with the LDS anyway, for wanting to live normal lives. But converting to Mormonism, for nookie? That is special brand of crazy.

How is that any crazier than converting to any other religion?

To be honest, one big reason is that most religions suffer from lack of tangible evidence of their legitimacy, while Mormonism suffers from significant tangible evidence that Smith was a fraud.


... and every other religion doesn't suffer from significant tangible evidence that they are frauds?

Really?


Actually, no. Most just have no real proof. Any tangible evidence of fraud for most religions disappeared centuries ago, assuming it existed at all. At most we have fragments of often contradictory historical account usually written long after the fact by parties who were not there.

However with Mormonism we have records of the court cases prior to the founding of the religion, in which Smith was (as stated above) shown to have been a "treasure hunter" (not a complimentary term). We have the other "witnesses" all abandoning Smith, and many stating he lied. We have Smith getting the revelation regarding polygamy after his wife caught him screwing around. Then there's Smith's "translation" of real hieroglyphics which he claimed were in the same language of his "reformed hieroglyphic" tablets. (If you're not familiar, his translation turned out to be totally different from the material actually said.)

The main difference is that Mormonism was invented recently enough that we have ready access to a lot of tangible evidence. With most other religions they were invented so far back that we can't go in and easily look at documentation showing that the religion was bullshiat. I'm not saying those religions are, or are not, bullshiat. I'm saying proving they are is not nearly as easy.
 
2010-12-29 06:51:36 PM
t3knomanser: HomoHabilis: that if the crux of the Book of Mormon is discredited, the whole church goes down with it.

You would think, but then again, when Smith's assistant's wife stole the transcription and challenged Smith to reproduce it, Smith's reply was that the angels had rearranged the text on his magic plates that nobody was allowed to see ever, so he couldn't produce the same document twice.


Citation? From somewhere credible though.
 
2010-12-29 06:56:29 PM
WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.

t3knomanser: WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.

What's the puzzle? Captain Picard did a slingshot maneuver around the sun to battle the Borg way back in Earth's history. During the battle, a transporter accident created a clone of him, who lived out the remainder of his life on Earth and became the Kennewick man.


I think I'm in love!
 
2010-12-29 07:02:36 PM
Kinek: Citation? From somewhere credible though.

Wikipedia cites a number of sources, but the actual details aren't quite as settled as I made it out to be. Her husband borrowed them for her, she "lost" them, and nobody knows what her actual goal may have been. Regardless, Smith said god told him not to retranslate that part and replace it with something else.

But it's a popular recounting- from Sam Harris's God is not Great:
Mrs. Harris was having none of this, and was already furious with the fecklessness of her husband. She stole the first hundred and sixteen pages and challenged Smith to reproduce them, as presumably-given his power of revelation-he could. (Determined women like this appear far too seldom in the history of religion.) After a very bad few weeks, the ingenious Smith countered with another revelation. He could not replicate the original, which might be in the devil's hands by now and open to a "satanic verses" interpretation. But the all-foreseeing Lord had meanwhile furnished some smaller plates, indeed the very plates of Nephi, which told a fairly similar tale. With infinite labor, the translation was resumed, with new scriveners behind the blanket as occasion demanded, and when it was completed all the original golden plates were transported to heaven, where apparently they remain to this day.
 
2010-12-29 07:05:28 PM
Indubitably: P.S. Mormons are the best example of religion's speciousness. Period. Read that twice, thrice, and ad infinitum.

P.P.S. Process at yer leisure. ;)


best non-cult example, I thnk you mean.
 
2010-12-29 07:05:37 PM
fc05.deviantart.net
 
2010-12-29 07:06:09 PM
t3knomanser: Sam Harris's God is not Great

Er, Hitchens's God is Not Great. Sorry, with all the Martin and Lucy Harris I got my atheists confused.
 
2010-12-29 07:06:30 PM
t3knomanser: WhyteRaven74: Actual archeological puzzle, Kennewick man.

What's the puzzle? Captain Picard did a slingshot maneuver around the sun to battle the Borg way back in Earth's history. During the battle, a transporter accident created a clone of him, who lived out the remainder of his life on Earth and became the Kennewick man.


+1
 
2010-12-29 07:07:06 PM
ph0rk: best non-cult example, I thnk you mean

The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members. A dozen of you? It's a cult. A million of you? It's a religion.
 
2010-12-29 07:08:37 PM
t3knomanser: ph0rk: best non-cult example, I thnk you mean

The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members. A dozen of you? It's a cult. A million of you? It's a religion.


yes, but most cults are even more wacked examples of religion's craziness than Mormonism, was my point.
 
2010-12-29 07:09:34 PM
Um - haven't they already proved through DNA analysis that there's absolutely no chance that the Mormons, nor the Amerindians are the "lost tribe of Israel?"
 
2010-12-29 07:09:57 PM
Coriantumr: bashing

Are you wearing your magic underwear?

blogs.ballyfermot.ie

/hot like magic underwear
 
2010-12-29 07:10:30 PM
Kinek: t3knomanser: HomoHabilis: that if the crux of the Book of Mormon is discredited, the whole church goes down with it.

You would think, but then again, when Smith's assistant's wife stole the transcription and challenged Smith to reproduce it, Smith's reply was that the angels had rearranged the text on his magic plates that nobody was allowed to see ever, so he couldn't produce the same document twice.

Citation? From somewhere credible though.


From their own site and writings. The story's pretty established, sadly. From a believer's perspective, Moroni took the plates back from Smith and didn't return them for nearly a year.
 
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