Can't we all just agree that people suck?

Airius: Jster422: Imperialism: TFA: Vanatta was laid off last January from his $100,000-a-year job as a sales executive for a turf company. And with savings of just $5,000, he's on a budget for the first time.

$100k a year job and $5,000 of savings? You did it wrong.

Ugh, jesus. Off to go up my 401k withholding again. These stories make me want to go back to living in a studio apartment eating Ramen for dinner every night.

That said, I've never really gotten into the anger over the idea that Social Security will be broke by the time I retire (I'm in my 30's now). First of all, I was never really counting on it as 'retirement money' as much as just 'emergency money', and second - I've known for as long as I've been in the workforce that I was on my own for retirement.

You will feel really silly when the boomers nationalize your IRAs and 401ks in order to "save" social security.... 8)

/subby

Well, aint that a hypothetical kick in the pants.

Jster422: Ugh, jesus. Off to go up my 401k withholding again

*sigh* I need to do this as well.

Airius: You will feel really silly when the boomers nationalize your IRAs and 401ks in order to "save" social security.... 8)

/subby

... THAT IS NOT FUNNY

X-boxershorts:
Why don't you farking blow me asshole and get off your fat lazy ass and work for a living. It beats blaming 55 million people you don't know, and know even less about, for every farking ill you perceive to have been done to you and yours.

When I entered the work force after serving my nation, Ronald Reagan had already expanded the war on drugs, deregulated banks, altered the rules the stock market plays by and paved the way for merger mania. 1/2 the nation was lulled by his lies and his bullshiat trickle down economics was actually being pushed on half the farking world. Your ignorance is so god damned blatant you stupid farking tool.

Call me when your pissant little whine fest is over. Grow up.

farking baby.

Wow, talk about a whining tirade!

So, you buy into the rhetoric that trickle down doesn't work? I bet you still credit Clinton for all the growth in the 90's but turn around and blame Bush for the economic crash. Talk about needing to grow up, the boomers never did.

You are right about one thing though. The boomers did cause most of the problems every following generation will need to clean up.

kthxdienow

Social Security was the original pyramid scheme.

/That crack about nationalizing IRAs hurt. Don't give Congress any ideas.

Little Bunny Foo Foo's Uncle Ernie: cig-mkr: otherginger: Can we split "the Boomers" into a couple subgroups? Because I keep reading about these old retiree boomers and I'm a boomer and I'm only forty-farking-eight.

And will be working til I drop, BTW.

Yes, lets split the boomers into groups. How about the ones that did the drugs, sex, and rock and roll and the dumb bastards that actually went out and worked.
The ones that raised your sorry, whiney asses and sent you to collage, bought your first car and gave you everything material you just had to have.
Don't blame us for the state of the government, we had no more voice in it than you have now. We were content with going to work everyday to bring home the $$$
needed to keep you in the manner you have grown accustomed to. Why hell, we even worked the overtime so we could get extras.

Goodness, sounds like me...I sent 3 to college and will have to make those loan payments for the rest of my life...

And now it is help with the grandyoungins

yeah - they r pretty much worthless, especially if there is a computer involved.


Tricky Chicken: DoctorCal: Has it occurred to you that a retiring worker often results in the creation of an employment position for someone else?

No, of course not. Continue with your misguided shadenfreude.

From what I've seen, everytime I lost someone with Boomer generation experience, I have been able to divide up his responsibilities among a couple of recent college grads with no real impact to performance. Unfortunately, we make our money by charging a fee on top of the cost of our employees.

Net result is, If I lose a boomer I have a choice of hiring a college grad and spreading some more salary around, or just spreading some salary around. Either way more money needs to be spread around, but no new hire is a given.

My point is, only good things happen when I 'lose' a boomer.

moitz: Both those groups are idiots. Let's add a third group of ones like my parents. They worked their asses off, penny-pinched like there it was going out of style, put four kids through private school, with a stay-at-home mom, made us all get jobs at 14 (things like lawn mowing or babysitting), made us buy our own cars, made us pay for our own college, and have as a result enough retirement savings to retire comfortably (though not extravagantly) at 65.

@moitz Looks like we both grew up with the same sort of parents (though mine aren't quite retired yet).

As a 25 year old with 11 years paid into social security and my whole working career ahead of me I'm resigned to the idea that there will be no social security left when it gets time for me to retire. I suggest the rest of you get yourselves in the same mindset :-(.

If I need to pay into social security and see no benefit from it, so be it. Somebody's gotta pay to fix the stupid, why not our generation?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think its fair either, and I'm not into it to be a martyr. I'm just trying to stress that this is a problem that needs to be addressed now. Stop the snowball effect, open your wallets and maybe if we feed the elephant he'll leave the room.

Airius:

You will feel really silly when the boomers nationalize your IRAs and 401ks in order to "save" social security.... 8)

/subby


I can't believe you got a couple bites with that nonsense. Really people?

Satanicpuppy: cig-mkr: otherginger: Can we split "the Boomers" into a couple subgroups? Because I keep reading about these old retiree boomers and I'm a boomer and I'm only forty-farking-eight.

And will be working til I drop, BTW.

Yes, lets split the boomers into groups. How about the ones that did the drugs, sex, and rock and roll and the dumb bastards that actually went out and worked.
The ones that raised your sorry, whiney asses and sent you to collage, bought your first car and gave you everything material you just had to have.
Don't blame us for the state of the government, we had no more voice in it than you have now. We were content with going to work everyday to bring home the $$$
needed to keep you in the manner you have grown accustomed to. Why hell, we even worked the overtime so we could get extras.

So it's your kids fault that you don't know how to manage money? When you spoil the kid, that's your fault, not their fault.

The good news is, however, that thanks to your upbringing they're probably too selfish to let you live with them. Wait. Bad news? Eh, whatever.

No, fortunately that wasn't me. My motto was at 16 get a part time job, at 18 go to school (I'll help) or an apprenticeship You want something, save up and buy it on your own. I was talking about the other parents.

X-boxershorts: No market can be driven from supply

Well, you can drive a market from the supply side, just not in a way that benefits anyone but the supplier. See the carefully controlled supplies of precious stones. Barring industrial grade ones, they only have value because they're "rare."

Trickle down remains a load of crap however.

X-boxershorts: his bullshiat trickle down economics was actually being pushed on half the farking world.

You gathered all this knowledge of my history and personal attitudes from...where?

Makin shiat up as well, asshole?

Are you so brain dead that you don't even understand the wrods you used? I didn't 'make' any of the above words up. If you go back and read your own posts (I'm assuming you CAN read) you will see that these are YOUR own words.

I merely deduced from your childish tirade that you were also huffin' on Clinton's cock too. Prove me wrong and denounce Clinton or STFU and die now with your entire waste of a generation. We will stick around and clean up after you like we always have to.

The boomers are like having a monkey as a pet. They are cute for a short while and then you realise they just shiate all over the place and fark the sofa cushions.

ProfessorOhki: Jster422: Ugh, jesus. Off to go up my 401k withholding again

*sigh* I need to do this as well.

Airius: You will feel really silly when the boomers nationalize your IRAs and 401ks in order to "save" social security.... 8)

/subby

... THAT IS NOT FUNNY

It is not entirely hypothetical... it has been discussed... mostly so far in terms of compelling 401k holders and IRA holders to put a % of their holdings in government treasuries .. which is government debt, which is what the Social Security fund is, and issuance is the only way they are propping it up... its functionally the same as nationalization of private accounts to bail out SS.

berthok: moitz: Both those groups are idiots. Let's add a third group of ones like my parents. They worked their asses off, penny-pinched like there it was going out of style, put four kids through private school, with a stay-at-home mom, made us all get jobs at 14 (things like lawn mowing or babysitting), made us buy our own cars, made us pay for our own college, and have as a result enough retirement savings to retire comfortably (though not extravagantly) at 65.

@moitz Looks like we both grew up with the same sort of parents (though mine aren't quite retired yet).

As a 25 year old with 11 years paid into social security and my whole working career ahead of me I'm resigned to the idea that there will be no social security left when it gets time for me to retire. I suggest the rest of you get yourselves in the same mindset :-(.

If I need to pay into social security and see no benefit from it, so be it. Somebody's gotta pay to fix the stupid, why not our generation?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think its fair either, and I'm not into it to be a martyr. I'm just trying to stress that this is a problem that needs to be addressed now. Stop the snowball effect, open your wallets and maybe if we feed the elephant he'll leave the room.

I suspect it to be more like soviet style eastern europe pensions. The payments will be made, but the money received will be relatively valueless. For my Romanian wife's aunt it was enough to pay half her heating bill. The problem often resolved itself for people who's families could or would not support them.

Airius: ProfessorOhki: Jster422: Ugh, jesus. Off to go up my 401k withholding again

*sigh* I need to do this as well.

Airius: You will feel really silly when the boomers nationalize your IRAs and 401ks in order to "save" social security.... 8)

/subby

... THAT IS NOT FUNNY

It is not entirely hypothetical... it has been discussed... mostly so far in terms of compelling 401k holders and IRA holders to put a % of their holdings in government treasuries .. which is government debt, which is what the Social Security fund is, and issuance is the only way they are propping it up... its functionally the same as nationalization of private accounts to bail out SS.

Nationalizing individuals 401(k)s/IRAs and "compelling" those individuals to invest their own money in treasuries are not even remotely close to the same thing. Not even a little.

The Singing Bush: Airius:

Nationalizing individuals' 401(k)s/IRAs and "compelling" those individuals to invest their own money in treasuries are not even remotely close to the same thing. Not even a little.

FTFM

X-boxershorts: The boomers are like having a monkey as a pet. They are cute for a short while and then you realize they just shiate all over the place and fark the sofa cushions.

You didn't deduce a damn thing. You made it up junior. Because it fits your predefined attitude, I suspect. Clinton is a douchebag but the 2 horrific pieces of deregulation legislation pale in comparison to the complete compromising of federal regulatory agencies Bush the moron implemented and to add insult to injury Obama goes ahead and expands the liberty smashing security apparatus. So you Shut The fark Up and grow up already....

mmmkay?

I see the word 'deduce' was too big for you to understand. It is in the dictionary, I'll let you look it up on your own. First open the dictionary...(right side up please)...flip to the 'D' section (the letters are in the same order as that song)...then flip to the 'De' section and so on for the remaining letters.


Please tell me you like eggs and bacon. Prefferably with copious amounts of butter. I also would like to hear that you smoke and don't exercise. I would be most thrilled to hear you did not get around to having children. I've also heard a story that smashing your own testicles properly can yield the most exquisite orgasm. You should try that. Don't be discouraged if you don't get it right the first time, keep trying.

The Singing Bush: The Singing Bush: Airius:

Nationalizing individuals' 401(k)s/IRAs and "compelling" those individuals to invest their own money in treasuries are not even remotely close to the same thing. Not even a little.

FTFM

Actually .. they are.

Think about it really hard.

Social Security is a trust fund, that buys only US Debt, that is backed only by the taxing capability and future production of US citizens.

Compelling you to purchase treasuries with a % of your private retirement accounts is an effective nationalization of that 5 of your retirement account.

Functionally that is what is being done, even if they don't call it that. A politician will try to claim a duck is not a duck by calling it a chicken... but anyone with an ounce of sense still knows it's a duck.

X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:
Why don't you farking blow me asshole and get off your fat lazy ass and work for a living. It beats blaming 55 million people you don't know, and know even less about, for every farking ill you perceive to have been done to you and yours.

When I entered the work force after serving my nation, Ronald Reagan had already expanded the war on drugs, deregulated banks, altered the rules the stock market plays by and paved the way for merger mania. 1/2 the nation was lulled by his lies and his bullshiat trickle down economics was actually being pushed on half the farking world. Your ignorance is so god damned blatant you stupid farking tool.

Call me when your pissant little whine fest is over. Grow up.

farking baby.

Wow, talk about a whining tirade!

So, you buy into the rhetoric that trickle down doesn't work? I bet you still credit Clinton for all the growth in the 90's but turn around and blame Bush for the economic crash. Talk about needing to grow up, the boomers never did.

You are right about one thing though. The boomers did cause most of the problems every following generation will need to clean up.

kthxdienow

You gathered all this knowledge of my history and personal attitudes from...where?

Makin shiat up as well, asshole? Like the whiny pussies you've all become. Morons like you make so many assumptions based solely upon canned farts that your no longer capable of discerning what reality is. Try again after you've lived it twinky....this class war was going on long before the boomers entered the work force and blaming the boomers actually prevents YOU from doing YOUR part. (hint, turn off main stream news)But hey, laying blame is so much easier and rewarding aint it ya tool. And there in lies the rub. You've become both intellectually and morally lazy.

You want to undo the crap fest Ronni Reagan started, and every single president since has expanded? The get off your fat lazy ass and start fighting back.

Until then..fark you.

Okay, I've stopped listening to the media. Am I 'fighting back' enough now?

You seem to be representing yourself as having a more 'true' and complete understanding of the world as we know it than the rest of us 'fat lazy ass' types. I'll happily grant that this could be true. You state that it is our laziness that is somehow part of the problem. Again, possibly true.

Where you lose me is at the point where you choose to simultaneously condemn us all as ignorant and ineffectual, and also withhold this grand body of knowledge of which you are so proud.

I don't know the key to undoing to economic wrongs being perpetrated on our society by our government/military industrial complex/reverse vampire overlords. I know just enough to see that being a 'have' seems to beat the everloving fark out of being a 'have-not', and that trend just keeps getting steeper. So I work, I save, and I plan for a rainy day. Along the way I do my best to avoid actively shiatting on the hopes and dreams of my fellow man, but I'm sure I do my share of that as well.

If YOU have this wonderful knowledge, knowledge of what the REAL problems are and much more significantly, knowledge of how to Really fight back and make real change in our world - why do you not share it?

I'm only half being a jerk here - fine, you have a better way? What is it? As it is you just remind me of McCain talking about how he'd be able to get Bin Laden if elected, then clamming up afterwards.

So I'm asking. Fight back how?

X-boxershorts:
You refuse to grow up, don't you twinky...

So now you are making racist slurs? You aren't even a consistent hippy.

Best thing about hippies, they are starting to die off.

otherginger: Can we split "the Boomers" into a couple subgroups? Because I keep reading about these old retiree boomers and I'm a boomer and I'm only forty-farking-eight.

The first group of baby boomers got most of the advantages of the post war great society programs and general strong labor market. The later ones less and less. Plus you probably started working during Reagan's morning in America.

gibbon1: otherginger: Can we split "the Boomers" into a couple subgroups? Because I keep reading about these old retiree boomers and I'm a boomer and I'm only forty-farking-eight.

The first group of baby boomers got most of the advantages of the post war great society programs and general strong labor market. The later ones less and less. Plus you probably started working during Reagan's morning in America.

Did that one include a walk of shame?

Valor: Social Security was the original pyramid scheme.

/That crack about nationalizing IRAs hurt. Don't give Congress any ideas.

Guaranteed Savings Accounts are only a bill passage awawy...

X-boxershorts: Jster422: X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:


So I'm asking. Fight back how?

Go to your township/municipal meatings. Demand civilian oversight. Run for office and buck the establishment. Write to your Senator or congress critter. March on Washington (boomers did a LOT of this back in the day). Fight for change instead of just blaming 55 million people you never met.


I'm not blaming anyone, though I assume that wasn't really directed at me anyway.

Thank you for your response.

X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:
You refuse to grow up, don't you twinky...

So now you are making racist slurs? You aren't even a consistent hippy.

Best thing about hippies, they are starting to die off.


Wow you're really stupid.

Twinky instead of tricky ya moran.

Is that how you justify the N word too? It is all in how YOU mean it right?

Racist douche bag.

Lots of angry tirades, swearing, and insults from the not-at-all unprepared boomers in this thread. Not very grown-up, is it guys? Of course the younger folks are the immature ones with the attitude problems. I guess you feel you've "earned" the right, but that we can't say that you feel entitled to belittle those around you. Very well, carry on. Live your long, miserable lives. I hope your children come see you when you're dying painfully with the knowledge that not even you can live forever, no matter how much money you've thrown at the idea.

Sliding Carp: Weaver95:
And the jobs that have already left the country aren't coming back.

Actually, a lot of them already have, and more will. It turns out even the greediest of business executives can be beaten into realizing their customers would rather speak on the phone with someone who shares a little of their culture, like the language.


That explains why I was connected with someone in Australia when I tried to call my bank yesterday.

Same language, same level of (do-nothing) service.

Airius: The Singing Bush: The Singing Bush: Airius:

Nationalizing individuals' 401(k)s/IRAs and "compelling" those individuals to invest their own money in treasuries are not even remotely close to the same thing. Not even a little.

FTFM

Actually .. they are.

Think about it really hard.

Social Security is a trust fund, that buys only US Debt, that is backed only by the taxing capability and future production of US citizens.

Compelling you to purchase treasuries with a % of your private retirement accounts is an effective nationalization of that 5 of your retirement account.

Functionally that is what is being done, even if they don't call it that. A politician will try to claim a duck is not a duck by calling it a chicken... but anyone with an ounce of sense still knows it's a duck.

You actually don't have to think about it "really hard" because it's not that complicated. Social Security is nationalized - you are required to pay into it and you're not accumulating wealth with your contributions; you are promised an annuity when you reach a certain age. On the other hand, with 401(k)s/IRAs, you voluntarily contribute toward a (hopefully) growing retirement fund in your name. Nationalizing it would be surrendering it to the government for a promise of future compensation. In your example, the funds are still in the individual's name and they have ultimate control over it (you could always just withdraw it and pay a penalty if you really wanted).

Surrendering the retirement funds that you have accumulated through a voluntary payroll deduction is not even close to keeping the money in your name, even if you have to invest a small amount in treasuries (which if you're diversified, you should already be doing anyway). If people were forced to surrender their 401(k)s and IRAs, they would simply stop contributing and fund their retirements in other ways.

In fact, you could probably say that nationalized retirement funding (social security) is a duck, and 401(k)s/IRAs are chickens.

Ball of Confusion: can we PLEASE stop using the term "boomer" and use the more apt term "The 'ME' Generation" now?

Heh, my mom's a grandma now, and doesn't want the kids to call her grandma. She insists we tell them to call her Mimi. Guess how that's pronounced...

Ain't gonna happen, btw.

Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:
You refuse to grow up, don't you twinky...

So now you are making racist slurs? You aren't even a consistent hippy.

Best thing about hippies, they are starting to die off.


Wow you're really stupid.

Twinky instead of tricky ya moran.

Is that how you justify the N word too? It is all in how YOU mean it right?

Racist douche bag.

Isn't "twinky" or more specifically "twink" a slur against overtly effeminate gay men? How is that racist?

The Singing Bush: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:
You refuse to grow up, don't you twinky...

So now you are making racist slurs? You aren't even a consistent hippy.

Best thing about hippies, they are starting to die off.


Wow you're really stupid.

Twinky instead of tricky ya moran.

Is that how you justify the N word too? It is all in how YOU mean it right?

Racist douche bag.

Isn't "twinky" or more specifically "twink" a slur against overtly effeminate gay men? How is that racist?

the former is a slur against orientals.

the latter is a slur against orientation.

The Singing Bush: Airius: The Singing Bush: The Singing Bush: Airius:



Functionally that is what is being done, even if they don't call it that. A politician will try to claim a duck is not a duck by calling it a chicken... but anyone with an ounce of sense still knows it's a duck.

You actually don't have to think about it "really hard" because it's not that complicated. Social Security is nationalized - you are required to pay into it and you're not accumulating wealth with your contributions; you are promised an annuity when you reach a certain age. On the other hand, with 401(k)s/IRAs, you voluntarily contribute toward a (hopefully) growing retirement fund in your name. Nationalizing it would be surrendering it to the government for a promise of future compensation. In your example, the funds are still in the individual's name and they have ultimate control over it (you could always just withdraw it and pay a penalty if you really wanted).

Surrendering the retirement funds that you have accumulated through a voluntary payroll deduction is not even close to keeping the money in your name, even if you have to invest a small amount in treasuries (which if you're diversified, you should already be doing anyway). If people were forced to surrender their 401(k)s and IRAs, they would simply stop contributing and fund their retirements in other ways.

In fact, you could probably say that nationalized retirement funding (social security) is a duck, and 401(k)s/IRAs are chickens.

I suspect that when this occurs it will be bipartisan (since both parties like to feather their nests and are short on cash) and it will have caveats attached about not allowing you to withdraw the "guaranteed" part of your plan, until you are old enough.

Also nothing prohibits them from setting the penalty on early withdrawals higher, or the ultimate tax rate for any withdrawal at a high rate via some form of means testing.

It will probably have some fancy name like "Private Retirement Investment Protection and Security Act" ... and given the control the government has over CPI numbers (if they even let you buy TIPS and not just long bonds) ... they pretty much are telling you what you are going to get.

When it comes down to complete fiscal insolvency of the nation and the government failing and them losing their power today, vs. throwing you under the bus to buy another decade of time and kick the can down the road ... you can rest assured that the legislation that occurs will likely not be in the favor of the common person.

It will still be a duck... they will just try to make you think it's a chicken.

Tricky Chicken: Racist douche bag.

The last resort of the truly stupid.

Tricky Chicken: The Singing Bush: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:
You refuse to grow up, don't you twinky...

So now you are making racist slurs? You aren't even a consistent hippy.

Best thing about hippies, they are starting to die off.


Wow you're really stupid.

Twinky instead of tricky ya moran.

Is that how you justify the N word too? It is all in how YOU mean it right?

Racist douche bag.

Isn't "twinky" or more specifically "twink" a slur against overtly effeminate gay men? How is that racist?

the former is a slur against orientals.

the latter is a slur against orientation.

I've never heard that - although I know several Asian people who are offended by the word "oriental". So...um...good one?

The Singing Bush: Tricky Chicken: The Singing Bush: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts: Tricky Chicken: X-boxershorts:
You refuse to grow up, don't you twinky...

So now you are making racist slurs? You aren't even a consistent hippy.

Best thing about hippies, they are starting to die off.


Wow you're really stupid.

Twinky instead of tricky ya moran.

Is that how you justify the N word too? It is all in how YOU mean it right?

Racist douche bag.

Isn't "twinky" or more specifically "twink" a slur against overtly effeminate gay men? How is that racist?

the former is a slur against orientals.

the latter is a slur against orientation.

I've never heard that - although I know several Asian people who are offended by the word "oriental". So...um...good one?

iirc, 'Twinkie' is a reference to those that are Asian, but act 'white' - Yellow on the outside, white (and presumably deliciously fattening) on the inside.

It's the Asian counterpart to 'Oreo' for black people that act similarly white.

Airius: The Singing Bush: Airius: The Singing Bush: The Singing Bush: Airius:

I suspect that when this occurs it will be bipartisan (since both parties like to feather their nests and are short on cash) and it will have caveats attached about not allowing you to withdraw the "guaranteed" part of your plan, until you are old enough.

Also nothing prohibits them from setting the penalty on early withdrawals higher, or the ultimate tax rate for any withdrawal at a high rate via some form of means testing.

It will probably have some fancy name like "Private Retirement Investment Protection and Security Act" ... and given the control the government has over CPI numbers (if they even let you buy TIPS and not just long bonds) ... they pretty much are telling you what you are going to get.

When it comes down to complete fiscal insolvency of the nation and the government failing and them losing their power today, vs. throwing you under the bus to buy another decade of time and kick the can down the road ... you can rest assured that the legislation that occurs will likely not be in the favor of the common person.

It will still be a duck... they will just try to make you think it's a chicken.

You're still ignoring the part where the contributions are voluntary. People will just stop contributing and find other retirement vehicles (variable annuities or variable universal life insurance, or even just self-managing a personal brokerage account). And they're not going to force people to buy treasuries with money that was contributed prior to the supposed legislation passing; that would be akin to taxing previous years' earnings, which would never fly. Ducks and chickens - still entirely different animals.

Airius: Social Security is a trust fund, that buys only US Debt, that is backed only by the taxing capability and future production of US citizens.

Compelling you to purchase treasuries with a % of your private retirement accounts is an effective nationalization of that 5 of your retirement account.

Dude Social security isn't a trust fund, Social Security is insurance. Most of the money you pay in goes right back out. The insurance part is you pay in, and if you don't get hit by a bus, then when you retire you get a check every month for the rest of your life. If you live a long time after you retire you'll need a lot more money to live comfortably than if you die early. Social security covers that situation.

The trust fund on the other hand is a scam Greenspan and Reagan cooked up to cheat the boomers in order to pay for tax cuts for the exceptionally wealthy. And you'll notice that as the bill starts coming due the ubber wealthy are now screaming like stuck pigs.

The Singing Bush: Airius: The Singing Bush: Airius: The Singing Bush: The Singing Bush: Airius:

I suspect that when this occurs it will be bipartisan (since both parties like to feather their nests and are short on cash) and it will have caveats attached about not allowing you to withdraw the "guaranteed" part of your plan, until you are old enough.

Also nothing prohibits them from setting the penalty on early withdrawals higher, or the ultimate tax rate for any withdrawal at a high rate via some form of means testing.

It will probably have some fancy name like "Private Retirement Investment Protection and Security Act" ... and given the control the government has over CPI numbers (if they even let you buy TIPS and not just long bonds) ... they pretty much are telling you what you are going to get.

When it comes down to complete fiscal insolvency of the nation and the government failing and them losing their power today, vs. throwing you under the bus to buy another decade of time and kick the can down the road ... you can rest assured that the legislation that occurs will likely not be in the favor of the common person.

It will still be a duck... they will just try to make you think it's a chicken.

You're still ignoring the part where the contributions are voluntary. People will just stop contributing and find other retirement vehicles (variable annuities or variable universal life insurance, or even just self-managing a personal brokerage account). And they're not going to force people to buy treasuries with money that was contributed prior to the supposed legislation passing; that would be akin to taxing previous years' earnings, which would never fly. Ducks and chickens - still entirely different animals.


The proposal has a 5% MANDATORY contribution. In addition, you're current 401k balance would be transferred to the "Guaranteed Retirement Account". This is for your protection of course. This multi-trillion dollar seizure of personal assets by the government would never be used to pay for the multi-trillion dollar unfunded liability of social security. Don't be silly.

Semantics can only go so far to obscure the obvious.

It's a duck.

gibbon1: Airius: Social Security is a trust fund, that buys only US Debt, that is backed only by the taxing capability and future production of US citizens.

Compelling you to purchase treasuries with a % of your private retirement accounts is an effective nationalization of that 5 of your retirement account.

Dude Social security isn't a trust fund, Social Security is insurance. Most of the money you pay in goes right back out. The insurance part is you pay in, and if you don't get hit by a bus, then when you retire you get a check every month for the rest of your life. If you live a long time after you retire you'll need a lot more money to live comfortably than if you die early. Social security covers that situation.

The trust fund on the other hand is a scam Greenspan and Reagan cooked up to cheat the boomers in order to pay for tax cuts for the exceptionally wealthy. And you'll notice that as the bill starts coming due the ubber wealthy are now screaming like stuck pigs.

Well I am not saying that it is a legitimate trust fund. Buying US treasuries and claiming it is a trust fund is akin to me writing myself a check for $1T and then claiming I am richer than Bill Gates. But the Social Security office does buy US Treasuries and hold them and does call it a trust fund.

For it to be a legitimate trust fund they we would be needing to buy Gilts and Bunds, and whatever that new remnimbi bonds will be called... (not that I would really consider those genuinely secure investments....)

But buying our own debt is quite pointless 8)

relaxitsjustme: I blame Hitler

Godwin fail... you need to call someone Hitler!