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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Israel's Holocaust memorial says it has now identified 4 million of the 6 million Jews who were killed by Nazis in the Holocaust of World War II. Take pause to let those numbers sink in   (suntimes.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Jews, Jews killed, holocaust  
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7385 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Dec 2010 at 5:32 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-22 03:03:56 AM  
"If what you say is true then why didnt the Nazi's succeed in eliminating the Jews?"

The good old USA! Hurrah!


Agreed MoeSzyslak, agreed.


Also a good starting point for Nazi mythology is here:

http://www.amazon.com/Occult-Roots-Nazism-Influence-Ideology/dp/186064​9734/ref= s r_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293004880&sr=1-1

pretty good read.
 
2010-12-22 03:04:00 AM  

Amos Quito: Want to do 'something nice' tomorrow, Lsherm? Go out and PROVE halfof33's assertion that freshly dead corpses make excellent fuel for incinerating other dead corpses.

Make a deal with the local dog pound. Prove your ridiculous assertions once and for all by demonstrating, in the presence of independent experts, that corpses make good fuel for anything.


What the hell?

Corpses DON'T make excellent fuel. But they do ACT as fuel, provided you get a good enough cycle going.

By his calculations I'd guess halof33 is a chemist or chemical engineer. I'm just a mechanical engineer. Either way, there is a certain amount of energy that is stored in a human that you can extract once the energy required to get it to a flammable state is introduced. In short: a body WILL burn by itself if you burn it long enough with something else.

He still made some assumptions that didn't compensate for the energy required to burn a body: namely, you can't assume that the water will burn off uniformly, nor can you assume that all the water is removed all at once. This is why wet logs will burn for a while as the outside is dried out but stop burning once a wetter, interior layer is introduced.

But if you go searching on the web, the Germans did figure out that burning more than one body at a time increased the efficiency of the oven because of the energy eventually released by a burning body. It's not vodoo, it's just a chemical reaction.

The only mistake he's making is stating that a burning body provides enough energy to burn another body, and in a "black box" scenario - a perfect world - that might be true. But to get to that point in the real world you have to introduce another heat source - which is what you pointed out.

Given time, money, and a real propensity for shiatty experiments, you or I could test this by starting a well-insulated furnace and getting it to a temperature that could use dead bodies as fuel. Then, if we could keep it going merely by throwing more dead bodies into it, halfof33 would be correct.

I suspect, as I noted originally, that he's only half-right. The wasted energy getting a body to the point it can act as fuel for a fire is probably more than the body provides once it gets to that point, so you can't sustain the cycle. The combustion cycle also isn't the same for various parts of the body, so you get varying positive net thermal energy as the burn progresses. The Germans couldn't sustain that cycle, and I don't know anyone else who has even tried.

However, he was correct that you CAN get some energy by burning a corpse. The Germans noted it and changed up their oven design to take advantage of it. What you can't do, to date, is create a self-sufficient furnace out of burning a corpse, probably because since WWII, demand is pretty low for such a thing.

I don't know if that helps you win your argument or not. I'm actually not even sure why you are making the argument. Yeah, you can't light a match and start a body on fire, but if you throw it into a hot furnace it will eventually burn, and the burning produces energy. It may not be as much energy as you already placed in the furnace, but it's still there nonetheless. This isn't debatable. It's not really even "science" in that dismissive way the stupid use the term. It's just an observable fact.

And I noted in my post that you obviously didn't read that the Germans, despite their refinements, still had to fuel the ovens with an outside source of fuel.

And on a personal note: you have been pretty reprehensible in this thread. I don't believe for a second you are as stupid as you are letting on, and that scares me a little.
 
2010-12-22 03:11:21 AM  

Thrash Attack: Were talking about the most advanced, efficient society of the time. I think if the Nazis had really wanted them eliminated there would have been no one to liberate.


They ran out of time, asshole.

Are you even serious? Do you have any idea how the liberation of the camps played out in WWII? When the Allied forces got close, the guards abandoned the camps so they couldn't be tried for war crimes. The prisoners that were left were people they hadn't managed to kill yet.

And your "worker bee" theory falls apart because most of the survivors found were emaciated and lived simply because the camp was abandoned. They weren't workers, they were fodder.

This is, without a doubt, the worst thread on Fark right now. It's nice to know the Germans are finally here, since the time difference precludes them from spouting nonsense during EST.
 
2010-12-22 03:43:54 AM  

Lsherm: Thrash Attack: Were talking about the most advanced, efficient society of the time. I think if the Nazis had really wanted them eliminated there would have been no one to liberate.

They ran out of time, asshole.

Are you even serious? Do you have any idea how the liberation of the camps played out in WWII? When the Allied forces got close, the guards abandoned the camps so they couldn't be tried for war crimes. The prisoners that were left were people they hadn't managed to kill yet.

And your "worker bee" theory falls apart because most of the survivors found were emaciated and lived simply because the camp was abandoned. They weren't workers, they were fodder.

This is, without a doubt, the worst thread on Fark right now. It's nice to know the Germans are finally here, since the time difference precludes them from spouting nonsense during EST.


first of all youre quoting the wrong person there. second, just because you disagree with someones opinion you think it gives you the justification to call them an asshole. you loose all credibility with that maneuver. third if the Nazis were hell bent on killing the jews why would they deploy troups so far into Russia instead of using them to kill jews? fourth, by your own admission the guards were more concerned with avoiding war crimes than carrying out the 'final solution'...and that makes sense to your argument?

/dont respond unless you can be a grown up about it

seems your only tactic is being rude.
 
2010-12-22 03:46:39 AM  

Thrash Attack: "If what you say is true then why didnt the Nazi's succeed in eliminating the Jews?"

The good old USA! Hurrah!


Agreed MoeSzyslak, agreed.


Also a good starting point for Nazi mythology is here:

http://www.amazon.com/Occult-Roots-Nazism-Influence-Ideology/dp/186064​9734/ref= s r_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293004880&sr=1-1

pretty good read.


i checked it out, it is a fictional book. I'd have to consider that with the source. Got anything historical and non-fiction?
 
2010-12-22 03:57:23 AM  
This thread is the most depressing and disgusting thing I have read in a very long time, godamn it some of you Farkers are seriously horrible people. I literally feel physically ill after reading some of this crap and I pray that this was just elaborate trolling to get a rise out of people and not how you really feel.
 
2010-12-22 04:02:55 AM  

Frederick: first of all youre quoting the wrong person there.


Sorry, quoted your response, not the original.

Frederick: third if the Nazis were hell bent on killing the jews why would they deploy troups so far into Russia instead of using them to kill jews? fourth, by your own admission the guards were more concerned with avoiding war crimes than carrying out the 'final solution'...and that makes sense to your argument?



Oh, you're delusional. Not an asshole, just delusional. Do yourself a favor and read a little about the division of German labor as the war progressed. And ignorant. You're ignorant.

There's no point carrying on this conversation. If those are your talking points, you don't have an "opinion". You have historical revisionism. I don't like it when the liberals do it, I don't like it when the racists do it, and I really don't like it when the holocaust deniers do it. And I really, REALLY resent the demand that I challenge your argument with historical facts, like you don't know them already.

fark you. If you're too lazy or obtuse to learn about history, I'm not going to try and help you. Society will pass you by soon enough.
 
2010-12-22 04:09:39 AM  

Ringshadow: Are they also identifying and archiving the names of the Roma gypsies, disabled (physically and mentally), twins, and homosexuals that were taken out during the Holocaust? Because Jews were not the only victims


And the black history museum doesn't honor all the important white people in history.

And the American Vietnam war memorial doesn't list the French casualties, only Americans.

And the Lincoln Memorial doesn't mention anything about the accomplishments of Andrew Jackson.

And....

A lot of people keep trying to make this same completely ultra-braindead "point" over and over.

It's not intended to be memorial to everyone ever. Just like all other memorials aren't either. Duhhhh.
 
2010-12-22 04:13:08 AM  

Lsherm: Frederick: first of all youre quoting the wrong person there.

Sorry, quoted your response, not the original.

Frederick: third if the Nazis were hell bent on killing the jews why would they deploy troups so far into Russia instead of using them to kill jews? fourth, by your own admission the guards were more concerned with avoiding war crimes than carrying out the 'final solution'...and that makes sense to your argument?


Oh, you're delusional. Not an asshole, just delusional. Do yourself a favor and read a little about the division of German labor as the war progressed. And ignorant. You're ignorant.

There's no point carrying on this conversation. If those are your talking points, you don't have an "opinion". You have historical revisionism. I don't like it when the liberals do it, I don't like it when the racists do it, and I really don't like it when the holocaust deniers do it. And I really, REALLY resent the demand that I challenge your argument with historical facts, like you don't know them already.

fark you. If you're too lazy or obtuse to learn about history, I'm not going to try and help you. Society will pass you by soon enough.


Well then you are doing yourself a disservice. I clearly stated I have never understood the charge of 'wanting to eliminate the jews' and stated some of the problems i have with the assertion. I and anyone else certainly has the right to question history. If it is so cut and dried as you make it out to be then why wouldnt you take the opportunity to present me with irrefutable facts that could 'set me straight' as you might say? I am open to discussion.

I am making no historical claims here -no revisionism- so your outrage is unwarranted. Your personal attack against me unnecessary. And your lack of support backing your position telling.
 
2010-12-22 04:16:23 AM  

manimal2878: Quasar: Killed in the what now? Why haven't I heard about this horrific tragedy before?

It's kind of funny till you think there really have been 4 or 5 genocides of the same level throughout the world since the Holocaust that many have never heard of.


How many Vietnamese/Arabs has the USA killed recently? I make it about six million.
 
2010-12-22 04:17:40 AM  

RoyBatty: What a disgusting thread.

I tend to go through life believing that while anti-semitism does exist, it's really very very minor, and that I don't suffer discrimination, and thank god, my kids won't have to deal with it.

And then I come across threads like this one, and I know, that contrary to what some people are saying, it's not just Internet Touch Guy talk, a lot of it is the real and true feelings of a lot of ignorant, and ugly, and hateful individuals.


Well said.
 
2010-12-22 04:20:21 AM  

I had Snu Snu: This thread is the most depressing and disgusting thing I have read in a very long time, godamn it some of you Farkers are seriously horrible people. I literally feel physically ill after reading some of this crap and I pray that this was just elaborate trolling to get a rise out of people and not how you really feel.


It really is disgusting. Makes it seem that history could repeat itself.
 
2010-12-22 04:20:54 AM  

Lsherm: Frederick: first of all youre quoting the wrong person there.

Sorry, quoted your response, not the original.

Frederick: third if the Nazis were hell bent on killing the jews why would they deploy troups so far into Russia instead of using them to kill jews? fourth, by your own admission the guards were more concerned with avoiding war crimes than carrying out the 'final solution'...and that makes sense to your argument?


Oh, you're delusional. Not an asshole, just delusional. Do yourself a favor and read a little about the division of German labor as the war progressed. And ignorant. You're ignorant.

There's no point carrying on this conversation. If those are your talking points, you don't have an "opinion". You have historical revisionism. I don't like it when the liberals do it, I don't like it when the racists do it, and I really don't like it when the holocaust deniers do it. And I really, REALLY resent the demand that I challenge your argument with historical facts, like you don't know them already.

fark you. If you're too lazy or obtuse to learn about history, I'm not going to try and help you. Society will pass you by soon enough.


All I did was ask a few questions. You first called me an asshole, then delusional, then ignorant, then told me 'fark you', then called me lazy and/or obtuse. Do you really think you have the higher ground here?
 
2010-12-22 04:25:27 AM  

Frederick: If it is so cut and dried as you make it out to be then why wouldnt you take the opportunity to present me with irrefutable facts that could 'set me straight' as you might say?


Christ I took the farking bait. Short answer to you? It's possible Germany had more than one goal during WWII - research it. Those two diverse goals managed to hurt the military on their own front AND the Russian front. I'll assume while you take a shower in the morning you manage to wash your body with soap and your hair with shampoo - think of it like that.

I am open to discussion.

No you aren't, not if you lead with questions like that. That's like claiming a 3 year old that always asks "Why?" is open to discussion. You have no such designs on the conversation.
 
2010-12-22 04:30:40 AM  

EsteeFlwrPot: rudemix: T-Luv: EsteeFlwrPot: I just found out that my great grandfather's (on my mom's side) name was Adolf. I don't know how to feel about that and im confused about why my great grandfather would have a German name if my mother is hispanic.

Alolfo is a common Hispanic name. He may have been called Adolf for short. Or he was Hitler.

After Mexico gained independence many Germans emigrated to Mexico to work in different fields there as engineers, mechanics, etc due to a serious lack of industrial educated Mexicans. many stayed for good and affected the culture. Which is why some of the Mexican tunes have such an oompaommpa polka sound. As said, Adolfo probably comes from a latinized Adolph, and your relative may have been named Adolfo or Adolph.

But my mom's family doesn't have a Mexican cell in it's body. Her family comes from Spain and my great grandfather's name was Adolf Vasquez but people called him Adolfo. Also, my grandfather's name was Rudolph. That's just funny.


You can blame Generallisimo Francisco Franco for that one....
 
2010-12-22 04:35:03 AM  

T-Luv: EsteeFlwrPot: I just found out that my great grandfather's (on my mom's side) name was Adolf. I don't know how to feel about that and im confused about why my great grandfather would have a German name if my mother is hispanic.

Alolfo is a common Hispanic name. He may have been called Adolf for short. Or he was Hitler.


well, if Hitler DID escape to Argentina like people seem to think, it's possable he had a daughter, etc...

hopefully not, though
wouldn't want someone like that on my family tree...
 
2010-12-22 04:46:53 AM  

Dracha: Holocau$t Indu$try Inc. will do anything to make a buck


politicalsoldier.netfirms.com
 
2010-12-22 04:48:36 AM  

Lsherm: Frederick: If it is so cut and dried as you make it out to be then why wouldnt you take the opportunity to present me with irrefutable facts that could 'set me straight' as you might say?

Christ I took the farking bait. Short answer to you? It's possible Germany had more than one goal during WWII - research it. Those two diverse goals managed to hurt the military on their own front AND the Russian front. I'll assume while you take a shower in the morning you manage to wash your body with soap and your hair with shampoo - think of it like that.

I am open to discussion.

No you aren't, not if you lead with questions like that. That's like claiming a 3 year old that always asks "Why?" is open to discussion. You have no such designs on the conversation.


Yep it's possible Germany had more than one goal; i have researched it. It's my conclusion that the vast majority of Germany's resources went to fighting. Hence their 'primary' goal IMO -expansionism. Particularly restoring the pre WWI empire.

I see no problem with the questions I asked. I dont think they were sophomoric. And i dont appreciate you painting me as an antagonist for asking. your personal attack on me is inappropriate. If the subject is too sensitive for you to engage in without emotional charge then perhaps you should not participate.

I happen to have the free time and really did want to discuss some of the questions i have long had.
 
2010-12-22 04:50:11 AM  
HumbleGenius 2010-12-22 04:20:21 AM
I had Snu Snu: This thread is the most depressing and disgusting thing I have read in a very long time, godamn it some of you Farkers are seriously horrible people. I literally feel physically ill after reading some of this crap and I pray that this was just elaborate trolling to get a rise out of people and not how you really feel.

It really is disgusting. Makes it seem that history could repeat itself.


Of course it will. It's human nature. It's so obvious it's in Ric Romero territory.
 
2010-12-22 04:54:33 AM  

Tatsuma: Kliffoth: That surprised me as well.

/just finished reading through the thread

reading this shiat, and seeing how most people just nod along or ignore it, is making me closer and closer everyday to leave this place as it turns into an ever bigger shiathole.

Post a thread about Wampler and holy fark are people outraged and people just won't shut up about it.

'The Holocaust never happened and Jews are subhuman'
'...'


One of the biggest racists on fark is gonna leave?
kbye
 
2010-12-22 05:27:45 AM  
Amos Quito
Delawheredad: Amos Quito

As someone who had a very antisemitic and Very German grandfather who was a contemporary of Hitler I can tell you exactly where the hatered of the Jews came from in Germany. Martin Luther! Luther was nuts about the Jews. Hundred of years of German pulpits preaching about how bad the Jews were is bound to have an effect. The things my grandfather believed about the Jews even though he grew up in village in Germany with no Jewish population would curl your hair.

I loved my grandfather but the man was not rational when it came to Jewish issues. I could see exactly how Hitler was able to shovel so much crap down so many throats.


Sorry, but bullshiat.

No one denies that Jews have suffered countless pogroms, expulsions and other hardships in diaspora, but all this started long before Martin Luther, and sadly it will continue until they stop blaming all of their problems on others and come to terms with the fact that though they may me 'chosen', they are not SO special that they are immune to the consequences of their own attitudes and behavior.

Good luck.

We're all counting on you.

So IF you are serious the Jews are to blame for their own problems. If they would stop going into jobs like law, academics, science, medicine, and finance EVERYTHING would be hunky-dory?
So all of those pogroms were justified and were never the consequence of ignorance or misinformation>

IF you actually believe this you are a pathetic and miserable excuse for a human being,

If that is true then the Christian EARNED their oppression by the Romans. American Indians DESERVED to be wiped out. Black Africans DESERVED enslavement! You are one sick and twisted individual.
 
2010-12-22 05:31:07 AM  
I'd like to see the equations used to figure out the total number of Jews killed. They have to involve imaginary numbers because everyone knows the holocaust never happened.
 
2010-12-22 05:40:13 AM  

How Does That Taste: jewbone158: How is this "sad"?

Because they should be more concerned with making peace with their neighbors who they slaughter mercilessly, than worrying about something that happened over a hundred years ago.


I lol'd.
 
2010-12-22 05:41:40 AM  
MoeSzyslak
Delawheredad: MoeSzyslak

You don't know German history very well do you? The Germans somewhat regularly went on Jew killing sprees. German culture was full of lies from the middle ages on of Jews using the blood of gentile babies to make their passover Matzos and other nonsense. Because of martin Luther, for 400 years before Hitler the Germans were killing Jews. The only period that was relatively free of German on Jew violence was the industrial revolution driven nineteenth century. Hitler just applied the principles of industry to something that had been occurring in Germany for centuries.

Yeah so a Jew from Austria spent most of a decade (including a prison sentence) grabbing for power in Germany. Then once he gained control he spent a shiat ton on social programs to prop up the country and gain approval. When all that was successful he started to stagger the introduction of anti-Jewish propaganda to turn public opinion against the Jews. Then he started secretly killing the Jews in camps unannounced to the populace because Germans are blood thirsty for Jews because of Martin Luther.

You should give Jesse Ventura a call.

Way to miss the point Sluggo. The Lutheran Church preached hate against the Jews for hundreds of years making it far EASIER for Hitler to implement his programs. The Holocaust was instituted gradually to keep international pressure on Germany low. Dozens of laws had to be passed to strip German Jews of their rights as citizens and the German population agreed with all of them mostly because they hag been taught every Sunday for the last several hundred years that Jews were less than people to begin with.
Most Germans were not murderous thugs but they went along with the murderous thugs in large part because on a very basic level they agreed with them. A smart German could have easily figured out what was going on in the death camps. They CHOSE ignorance.
AS DO YOU!
 
2010-12-22 05:52:52 AM  
Late to the dance, but just wondering what the 6 million figure includes. During the course of any war there are civilian deaths in the general population from combat, disease, starvation, etc. In addition, some people will die of natural causes during the course of the war. Finally, there were jews fighting on both sides during the war and some of these died in combat. The total of these Jewish deaths must be a substancial number. Are these deaths being included in the 6 million figure?
 
2010-12-22 06:29:50 AM  
Frederick [recently expired TotalFark] Quote 2010-12-22

Logically I have some trouble believing the Nazis were intent on exterminating the Jews. Using the Jews as slave labor makes more sense to me as a motive. Were talking about the most advanced, efficient society of the time. I think if the Nazis had really wanted them eliminated there would have been no one to liberate.

>>>>>>

The knowledge of history by some people is downright appalling. Jews were worked to death in slave labor camps. The ones fit enough to survive were sent to factories. They were systematically exterminated once their usefulness was up, or they were too weak to be of productive use to the Nazi's.
 
2010-12-22 06:49:57 AM  

I had Snu Snu: This thread is the most depressing and disgusting thing I have read in a very long time, godamn it some of you Farkers are seriously horrible people. I literally feel physically ill after reading some of this crap and I pray that this was just elaborate trolling to get a rise out of people and not how you really feel.


This
 
2010-12-22 07:03:58 AM  
Well black americans have been crying about slavery for 148 years, looks like the Jews have some crying left.
 
2010-12-22 07:17:06 AM  

Tatsuma: reading this shiat, and seeing how most people just nod along or ignore it, is making me closer and closer everyday to leave this place as it turns into an ever bigger shiathole.


Is this a promise? I'm not an anti-semite, but I can gladly play one if it helps the cause.
 
2010-12-22 07:22:24 AM  
Related: I'm finishing up Browning's Ordinary Men.

Comparing slaughters aside, I agree with his point that the Holocaust has a precise sort of cruelty associated with it, which I've only ever found in the Rape of Nanking. Both are horrible, horrible examples of the limits of human nature.
 
2010-12-22 07:39:31 AM  
Delawheredad
A smart German could have easily figured out what was going on in the death camps.

"A smart American could have easily figured out what was (not) going on in Iraq prior to the invasion. They CHOSE ignorance."

----------------

From what my grandma told me about the little Bohemian village she lived in at that time, they had exactly one (state-controlled) newspaper and a few people with radios so they could listen to the Führer - and maybe, if they a) were willing to risk their lives and b) understood English at all, to the BBC.

She mentioned something about one guy, according to rumors vaguely connected to a resistance movement, who was more or less their only source for somewhat factual news instead of propaganda since he, besides his rumored underground connections, left the village more or less regularly as he was a part-time lecturer at some school or university in, IIRC, Prague.

She said something about how, without occasional updates from him, she would have thought of Stalingrad as a German victory.

And that it was still very difficult to get at information/rumors like that because you or he or anyone couldn't openly ask or talk about it as you never knew who might rat you out for treasonous activities, be it because they were "patriots", held a grudge, for personal gains or whatever.

----------------------
A smart German might also have opted to keep his trap shut to stay alive, not because of agreement; I guess fearing for your life can make ignorance look pretty attractive, especially if everybody else is doing the same, adding a lot of pluralistic ignorance and diffusion of responsibility into the mix.
----------------------

Looks like even today choosing ignorance is pretty easy to do and not at all unpopular - just look at Fox-News-only following Tea Partiers. Or people like the Freepers.
And they actually have the whole Internet and lots of sources at their disposal, without any fear of retribution should they decide to look at them.


Hey, imagine for a moment what it would have looked like if the media had been forced to go into full propaganda mode post-9/11 instead of doing so voluntarily; hell, most Americans didn't even seem to notice or care.
Remember all the flag-waving andhow those "america-hating" people with differing opinions or "government-criticizing in a time of war treasonists" were treated back then?

And that if-you're-not-with-us-you're-against-us crap? I'm pretty sure that's at least partly (if not more) to blame for all the left-vs-right derp-whargarrbl-infighting and name-calling that seems to have poisoned politics and public discourse and seems to have replaced reasonable debate or focusing on problems.
 
2010-12-22 08:28:50 AM  

Delawheredad: You don't know German history very well do you? The Germans somewhat regularly went on Jew killing sprees.


Oh come the fark on. Name one country in the Old World where they didn't go on seemingly irrational Jew-killing sprees.
 
2010-12-22 08:40:55 AM  
fmmodzelewski
Basically, there is a lot of evil to be aware of and study and dead remembered. Jews were less than 1/2 of those killed in the Hitler lead "Holocaust." Civilian Poles, gypsies, the disabled and homosexuals add up to more. This isn't to diminish the slaughter of Jews, its to only say we need to look more broadly at this special kind of targeted evil.

You want to play the numbers game? Ok then. What percentage of those murdered because they were gay? What percentage because they were Roma? What percentage disabled? Russian? Polish? French?

And what percentage were murdered because they were Jews?

Map that out in a pie chart and you'll have a pretty good image of Pacman. Hint: he's not the one being eaten.

and FFS, stop with the "half-Jewish" crap. You either are, or you aren't. It's a religion, not a race, no matter what the dingbats on either side trumpet.
 
2010-12-22 08:45:58 AM  

Kar98: Delawheredad: You don't know German history very well do you? The Germans somewhat regularly went on Jew killing sprees.

Oh come the fark on. Name one country in the Old World where they didn't go on seemingly irrational Jew-killing sprees.


or any other "ethnic" killing spree for that matter
 
2010-12-22 08:50:05 AM  
ecx.images-amazon.com

watch it
 
2010-12-22 08:53:16 AM  

Taleya: fmmodzelewski
Basically, there is a lot of evil to be aware of and study and dead remembered. Jews were less than 1/2 of those killed in the Hitler lead "Holocaust." Civilian Poles, gypsies, the disabled and homosexuals add up to more. This isn't to diminish the slaughter of Jews, its to only say we need to look more broadly at this special kind of targeted evil.

You want to play the numbers game? Ok then. What percentage of those murdered because they were gay? What percentage because they were Roma? What percentage disabled? Russian? Polish? French?

And what percentage were murdered because they were Jews?

Map that out in a pie chart and you'll have a pretty good image of Pacman. Hint: he's not the one being eaten.

and FFS, stop with the "half-Jewish" crap. You either are, or you aren't. It's a religion, not a race, no matter what the dingbats on either side trumpet.


Just an aside, what attribution would you give Ashkenazi Jews who aren't significantly genetically similar to either Middle Eastern or Euro ethnicities?

Link (new window)
 
2010-12-22 08:57:18 AM  
The worst genocides of the 20th Century:

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000

Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)

Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)

Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908) 8,000,000

Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)

Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)

Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)

Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000

Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000


lots more but i stopped at the million mark
 
2010-12-22 09:11:33 AM  

manimal2878: Have they identified any of the non Jewish victims, the other 6 million or so gays, political dissidents, other persecuted religions, gypsies, etc?


Since you've gotten there for the Jews, how long before you think it's ok to casually not give a shiat about the rest either?
 
2010-12-22 09:14:50 AM  

Amos Quito: Want to do 'something nice' tomorrow, Lsherm? Go out and PROVE halfof33's assertion that freshly dead corpses make excellent fuel for incinerating other dead corpses.


Other away around Redundant Himmler.

/actually, this whole discussion got started based on Himmler's contention that there would not have been sufficient fuel to incinerate the bodies. In fact, the Holocaust Deniers' have claimed this for years, and it has been rebutted time and again by serious scholars, because, gruesome as it sounds, the corpses themselves provided fuel. Google it yourself.
//you don't think I did those figures myself, did you?
 
2010-12-22 09:17:03 AM  

Fubini: Ohio, the 7th most populated state, has roughly 11.5 million residents. Thus, 43 of 50 states have populations less than the number of holocaust victims.


But Ohioians are just a different kind of victims for living in Ohio.

\Ohioian
 
2010-12-22 09:24:29 AM  

manimal2878: Have they identified any of the non Jewish victims, the other 6 million or so gays, political dissidents, other persecuted religions, gypsies, etc?


Don't forget we undercount what was going on in eastern Europe. The feeling post war was it would make the US look bad to re-estimate the numbers and make them higher, so the general assumption is that they were frozen at ~6M. Many historians would put the total at 7-8M.

Plus all the non-jewish victims which never officially happened according to any textbook.
 
2010-12-22 09:29:17 AM  
Seeing the incredibly respectful behavior to the men, women and children were exterminated en masse shown in this thread, I am reminded of an ancient parable that I've always found relevant.

There once was four sons. They each visited a fark thread concerning a memorial to the 6 million Jews who died during the holocaust. Each voiced their opposition to the thread in their own way.

The Wise Son said "Is there no way in which we can honor the non-Jewish victims of the holocaust without disrespecting and criticizing the Jews for building this memorial?"

The Wicked Son said "The Jews would lead you to believe that it was only them who suffered during their so-called Holocaust. The Jews have all the sympathy and attention for their imagined plights so it is their responsibility to put the hardships of others before themselves."

The Simple Son said "ISRAEL!".

The Son Who Is Clearly Incapable Of Asking A Question said: "Look, guys, chill out already. This is all Internet Tough Guy Talk. No one really cares one way or the other about what the Jews do. Go back to your bagels and lox and forget what you read here today. I'm sure they didn't mean it."

To the Wise Son I would say that all the people who died in World War 2 deserve their own memorial. The Canadians have their own memorials. The French have their own memorials. The people who created this memorial were not disrespectful to the others who suffered during the holocaust. They simply put themselves first, as many of us do.

To the Wicked Son I would say get help. Their are no Jews hiding under your bed. Their are no Jews deep in the earth's core plotting to take over the world's finances. It's a shame that the other victims of the holocaust don't receive as much attention as the Jewish ones, but that doesn't excuse your paranoia that there is a concerted effort by the world at large to ignore them.

To the Simple Son I would say that you need to learn how to construct an argument. There is a right way to convey your position concerning the abuses of the Israeli government and childishly equating their crimes with that of the Nazi's is the wrong way. There is, and have never been, anyone like the Nazi's. Even the ever delightful Neo-Nazi's like the former Ms. GOODASGOLD are not nearly as bad as the actual Nazi's. To paraphrase fellow half-jew Bill Maher, the difference between the real Nazi's and these nouveau Nazi's is that one group was a serious danger to the world that needed to be dealt with, and the other is a walking joke.

To the final son, I can only say that while your zeal for pacifism is admirable, in this debate it is misguided. One of the many reasons we are reminded of the holocaust every year is that it was largely ignored by the world while it was happening. Surely you've heard the quote "First they came for the Communists..." and so on. If some Internet Tough Guy feels the need to spew his ignorance over a holocaust thread, then I and others like me will feel the need to point out that ignorance.

Ma nishtana ha lyla ha zeh mikkol hallaylot?

/I was always the Simple Son
 
2010-12-22 09:29:21 AM  

Cry_Blue_Murder:
///Gypsies and Gays can build their own museums, can't they?


I'm sure the Romani could, but given that Europe is still a land of deep-seeded racism, it would have to be in the back of a vardo so that they could take it with them when Italy or France or whomever this week decides to round them up and ethnically cleanse relocate them.

Again.

/N-word banned on Fark, but G-word isn't?
 
2010-12-22 09:31:15 AM  

Impasse: Fubini: Ohio, the 7th most populated state, has roughly 11.5 million residents. Thus, 43 of 50 states have populations less than the number of holocaust victims.

But Ohioians are just a different kind of victims for living in Ohio.

\Ohioian


This. It's why one of our primary exports is serial killers.
 
2010-12-22 09:31:15 AM  
that should be "who were exterminated". Probably a few grammar mistakes too.

/Shalom, everybody
 
2010-12-22 09:33:49 AM  
I've always thought that there is a metric shiat-ton of anti-semitism simmering just under the surface for a lot of people. I've overheard countless asides and comments through the years from people whenever certain political and historical discussions have been taking place. Makes me wonder would happen if our society took a major turn for the worse, economically and socially - a road our wonderful leaders have been leading us down for years.
 
2010-12-22 09:34:15 AM  
I know it sounds tacky, but had Hitler spent his energy and money FIGHTING and developing all the advanced woepons his amazing scientists created we "might" just be studying MEIN KAMPF right now in our grade schools and not Catcher in the Rye. I mean the farkhead spent all his money on the so called final solution and not on trying to win the war.

//being Jewish it makes me very sad of course that all those folks perished so stupidly
///but really, had Adolp not been a nutburger, we might all be German....shudders at the stinkin thought
 
2010-12-22 09:45:08 AM  

MrBonestripper: Cry_Blue_Murder:
///Gypsies and Gays can build their own museums, can't they?

I'm sure the Romani could, but given that Europe is still a land of deep-seeded racism, it would have to be in the back of a vardo so that they could take it with them when Italy or France or whomever this week decides to round them up and ethnically cleanse relocate them.

Again.

/N-word banned on Fark, but G-word isn't?


gook?
 
2010-12-22 10:06:35 AM  

NeoBad: I know it sounds tacky, but had Hitler spent his energy and money FIGHTING and developing all the advanced woepons his amazing scientists created we "might" just be studying MEIN KAMPF right now in our grade schools and not Catcher in the Rye. I mean the farkhead spent all his money on the so called final solution and not on trying to win the war.

//being Jewish it makes me very sad of course that all those folks perished so stupidly
///but really, had Adolp not been a nutburger, we might all be German....shudders at the stinkin thought


Without confiscating the property of the Jews in Germany Hitler could not grease the wheels he needed to keep power. He really did find and easy target with a lot of loot and went after it.
 
2010-12-22 10:17:18 AM  

Magorn: but none of those are exactly "things no one has every heard about" so do please enlighten me what genocides you were thinking of


Sure they are. Go talk to your average kid about the worlds worst tragedies, they will mention the holocaust and likely nothing else.
 
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