Voiceofreason01: A big part of the disparity is that a lot of poor whites live in rural areas whereas large lower-income black populations are almost exclusively urban, the higher population density(amongst other factors) helps to increase violence in urban areas.

See, you need to read the *WHOLE* thing:

I've had people say the difference is due to the alleged fact that poor whites tend to live in rural areas and poor blacks live in urban areas, but that really isn't true either: Roughly 80% of poor Whites live in metropolitan statistical areas, compared to 87% of poor Blacks. Poor people tend to gravitate to cities where there is better access to government services and where transportation is less of a problem regardless of their race.

Apparently the US CENSUS is farkied, probably due to the release of 2010 data today, but here is the URL where I got those numbers so you can check it later:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032010/pov/new41_100.htm

Forewarned: When it is up, you have to do the simple math of dividing X poor population by race in MSA's by the Y total poor population of race, and then multiply by 100 to get the percentage


Can I do an "Oh, SNAP!" myself? Or does someone else have to do it?

dittybopper:
I've had people say the difference is due to the alleged fact that poor whites tend to live in rural areas and poor blacks live in urban areas, but that really isn't true either: Roughly 80% of poor Whites live in metropolitan statistical areas, compared to 87% of poor Blacks. Poor people tend to gravitate to cities where there is better access to government services and where transportation is less of a problem regardless of their race.


Your sarcasm aside, there is a difference between "metropolitan" and "urban". Especially in cities like Kansas City, Chicago and St. Louis that have huge metropolitan areas both in terms of geography and population.

Kyoki: I'm glad that you're extending your toolkit beyond H2H, but a pistol grip shotgun is more of a liability than its worth.

/just my .02 kopeks

For home defense/and or close-quarters movement I find it easier to maneuver when the gun is as short as possible. It sure as heck wouldn't work too well for shooting skeet.

lulfas: Buckshot is more likely to go through wall spaced drywall than most pistol and rifle calibers. Spread on 00 is mostly unimportant on the ranges you'd be shooting for HD. Please learn something about guns rather than what you read on the internet or pretend to know.

I've tested it, lulfas. At only 10 feet, Remington's #4 00 buckshot spreads out to nearly a foot and will not overpenetrate. Grapeshot or sabot would of course be far more effective but much more dangerous to other folks in the house.

dittybopper: That sounds like an invitation to post this diagnostic target:

It wouldn't be funny if it wasn't close to the truth. Mine really isn't bad though, especially after I installed a brake.

Kyoki: Accuracy (mentioned)

Purely relative. I can hit everything that I shoot at, but I don't use it to shoot quarters at 500 yards.

Lack of reliable standard capacity magazines (mentioned)

There is no lack of quality mags. Well, there is, but only in my cabinet. I have several good quality ones, they have never jammed. I also have a bunch of cheapos 30rd mags, they jam every once in a long while.

Safety inside the trigger guard.

I'd call that personal preference. I don't mind it there, but I have a habit of just leaving it off anyway.

Repair parts must be hand fitted at Ruger (they break with hard use and then have to be sent back to Ruger).

If you say so. I've had mine opened up more than once and I haven't seen much of anything I could replace myself, and I'm not a gunsmith. While I haven't gone out of my way to abuse it, I haven't exactly babied it either, and nothing has broken.

Lack of decent optic mounting solutions.

Again, if you say so. The scope and mount I have on mine is working just fine.

knightofargh: I was attempting to explain that "assault weapon" is a meaningless term, as in the post I initially responded to. For the purposes of the most common cosmetic feature bans, a mini-14 and AR-15 fill a similar niche and are functionally identical.

Gotchya. I'd agree with that, but only that.

Sensei Can You See: It sure as heck wouldn't work too well for shooting skeet.

I dunno about that. I've never seen mu buddy put a shotgun to his shoulder, and he can outshoot anyone else I've ever met. I wouldn't recommend it, but shooting from the hip sure as fark works for him.

pla: If you don't have the will to USE a firearm in self defense (and I don't mean as a last resort, I mean as one obligatory warning from across the room and then aim for the carotid), you won't.

I didn't say I wouldn't; I said I don't want to. You'll notice I went on to say that if I ever do I will be confident I did everything I could to avoid it -- but that if I have to do it I will.

And yes, if you're going to shoot someone in your house you make sure he's dead before you call 911.

Voiceofreason01: Your sarcasm aside, there is a difference between "metropolitan" and "urban". Especially in cities like Kansas City, Chicago and St. Louis that have huge metropolitan areas both in terms of geography and population.

It's valid because not all of the areas where this stuff happens are in, say, New York City proper. Consider that places like Teterboro, Irvington, and Paramus, NJ are all very high crime areas, and they are within the NYC MSA, but not in NYC proper. Looking at just major cities without the surrounding MSA's involved is going to screw you up.

Voiceofreason01: Your sarcasm aside

By the way, that wasn't really sarcasm. You failed to read a prominent paragraph with a link to the data. Sarcasm would have been me saying "Well, I see you read the whole thing in great detail".

C'mon, let's just turn this into a gun porn thread and get it over with.

binkyman: HalEmmerich: All of you guys debating shotguns and pistols and ARs, I was hoping the guy recommending people get an M1 Garand through the civilian marksmanship program for home defense from last week's gun thread would be back, now that was a good laugh.

/I mean, the ping when the empty clip gets ejected is just shouting to the intruder you need to reload, amirite?

If you can't hit them with the first 8 rounds or beat them to death with the butt stock, then I doubt any other weapon is going to change the out come.
Still would go with my .410 pump action.

Not only that, but by the time you are finished firing eight rounds of .30'06 Springfield indoors, they should be so deaf that they wouldn't hear the *PING* in the first place.

/The only gun I truly regret selling was my M-1.

JesseL: Lehk: I would just use my Mosin-Nagant M44, just in case there are 5 or 6 guys behind him that also need to die

And that's just using the bayonet. If you actually fire it you can take out a couple more, plus set them all on fire.

Oh, so it's basically a less-capable version of the SMLE.

JesseL: dittybopper: JesseL: Lehk: I would just use my Mosin-Nagant M44, just in case there are 5 or 6 guys behind him that also need to die

And that's just using the bayonet. If you actually fire it you can take out a couple more, plus set them all on fire.

Oh, so it's basically a less-capable version of the SMLE.

It's got a smaller magazine and the action may be a bit slower since it's cock-on-open and has front locking lugs, but I find it to handle better and be more reliable than any of the Enfields I've messed with. IIRC, 7.62x54R has a bit of ballistic advantage over .303 too.

For some reason all the Enfields I've used had problems with the bolt failing to grab a round from the magazine on occasion.

I've never had that problem. I did have issues with them not feeding because the rims were inserted into the stripper clip wrong, which might be the issue (or just stupidity on loading them manually).

The real advantage the No. 4's have over the Nagants (and just about any other contemporary rifle) is the longer sight radius and much better sights.