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(NPR)   Sure, those violent video games are turning your kinds into amoral losers with strong violent tendencies. But they're making them smarter, too   (npr.org) divider line 70
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6021 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2010 at 1:45 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-20 04:54:47 PM
username101: Try out Demon's Souls, possibly the only worthwhile exclusive on the PS3.

"Difficult" can have different meanings, and I'm not sure I like Demon's Souls'. The older Dragon Quest games were "difficult" in that you had to make choices. The game could be quite easy if you were just overly patient and played conservatively, but it's also less fun that way. The mad saving was an ironic form of playing aggressively; by taking the long-term approach I often pushed my parties to their short-term limits which resulted in some rather scary situations. The risk was worth it to me, but the challenge was entirely self-imposed.

The indictment on Demon's Souls is that no matter how cautiously you advance, you can always get ambushed by creatures stronger and faster than you, at which point you're flying around as a nerfed ghost with in some cases no chance of being able to reach your corpse. That may be "difficult" but it's not fun. I don't like "fark this shiat" games.

I relate another example in a PS2 JRPG that never made it to the US. In this game, garrisons recover every round; forces on the field do not -- but you get significant bonuses for finishing missions early. Also, all damage is calculated, not randomized, so retries don't change the outcome -- there's no luck involved. So when I was attacking a stubbornly defended city and running low on everything, I had to consider pulling back to the last town and regrouping, during which I would lose about a dozen turns and all possible bonuses. As damage was calculated and in every scenario I'd tried the leader died (game over), there was a possibility what I was trying was mathematically impossible. I decided to push on and wound up trying dozens of formation, buff/debuff and special attack combinations. After about an hour my leader hobbled into the city with all skills depleted and less than 50hp remaining out of about 5000. THAT is difficulty. The only time in my life an RPG literally made me sweat.
 
2010-12-20 04:56:54 PM
On a side note: BIG STEAM SALE! (new window)
 
2010-12-20 04:57:34 PM
oi51.tinypic.com
 
2010-12-20 05:02:05 PM
angry_scientist: NetOwl: Everything you say is true, though there are a few games these days that make you play with the mindset of the '80s and '90s, most of them with Megami Tensei in the name. Actually, thanks to emulation, it's sort of fun to go back and play some of the old Megaten games on my computer.

Yep, like group exp. WTF? I remember in Shining Force using an amoeba attack with the tanks and frontlines weakening the targets and carefully moving up the ranged/healers to get the experience and hoped to not get wiped out while using strategery for spreading the exp around.


Those games are easier in my top 10 of all time.

I love Shining Force II especially.

Although I had a glitch once that prevented me from advancing the storyline for hours. I ended up finally getting around it, and the rest of the game was a breeze because I had spent so much time leveling trying to figure out where the hell to go.

//This was before I had the internet.
 
2010-12-20 05:13:35 PM
Star Wars cantina scene:

"We don't like your kind around here!"
 
2010-12-20 05:14:52 PM
Bennie Crabtree: drunkenmidnight: Oh here we go again.... If music, video games and movies/TV really turned people into psychos, then what video game was it that Hitler played?

Again with the hyperbole. Let's not talk about the problem! Let's perpetuate an urban myth instead! This is why gamers can't have serious conversations about the effects of video games on kids.


You mean the urban myth that violent video games result in violent behavior in video game players?
 
2010-12-20 05:19:07 PM
Her studies show that video gamers show improved skills in vision, attention and certain aspects of cognition. And these skills are not just gaming skills, but real-world skills .

Real World skills like Face to Face communication and the ability to manage your finances? Video Games may help you in some aspects, but it will not help you defeat Bill Lumberg.
 
2010-12-20 05:38:19 PM
dragonchild: username101: Try out Demon's Souls, possibly the only worthwhile exclusive on the PS3.

"Difficult" can have different meanings, and I'm not sure I like Demon's Souls'. The older Dragon Quest games were "difficult" in that you had to make choices. The game could be quite easy if you were just overly patient and played conservatively, but it's also less fun that way. The mad saving was an ironic form of playing aggressively; by taking the long-term approach I often pushed my parties to their short-term limits which resulted in some rather scary situations. The risk was worth it to me, but the challenge was entirely self-imposed.

The indictment on Demon's Souls is that no matter how cautiously you advance, you can always get ambushed by creatures stronger and faster than you, at which point you're flying around as a nerfed ghost with in some cases no chance of being able to reach your corpse. That may be "difficult" but it's not fun. I don't like "fark this shiat" games.

I relate another example in a PS2 JRPG that never made it to the US. In this game, garrisons recover every round; forces on the field do not -- but you get significant bonuses for finishing missions early. Also, all damage is calculated, not randomized, so retries don't change the outcome -- there's no luck involved. So when I was attacking a stubbornly defended city and running low on everything, I had to consider pulling back to the last town and regrouping, during which I would lose about a dozen turns and all possible bonuses. As damage was calculated and in every scenario I'd tried the leader died (game over), there was a possibility what I was trying was mathematically impossible. I decided to push on and wound up trying dozens of formation, buff/debuff and special attack combinations. After about an hour my leader hobbled into the city with all skills depleted and less than 50hp remaining out of about 5000. THAT is difficulty. The only time in my life an RPG literally made me sweat.


Hmm. I see we share a difference in opinion as far as RPGs go. I respect you, for your calculation and yada yada which Western-style RPGs tend to lack in.

I personally don't find such games as fun, but I can see how you would enjoy them.
 
2010-12-20 05:55:32 PM
The Shroom: Her studies show that video gamers show improved skills in vision, attention and certain aspects of cognition. And these skills are not just gaming skills, but real-world skills .

Real World skills like Face to Face communication and the ability to manage your finances? Video Games may help you in some aspects, but it will not help you defeat Bill Lumberg.


But they will teach you to hide his body out of sight.
 
2010-12-20 07:57:25 PM
SAY THAT TO MY FACE, OP! I FARKING DARE YOU OP I'LL TEAR YOUR THROAT OUT!
 
2010-12-20 09:09:19 PM
Paradox Interactive doesn't make games, it makes fancy teaching tools. I could probably teach a bunch of disinterested high school students more about the reformation and the enlightenment with Europa Universalis 3 than a proper textbook.
 
2010-12-20 09:49:44 PM
One of my nephews hit his brother with a golf club yesterday. I actually DO suspect the R18 video games they play ALL the time are proving to be a very bad idea for these kids at least. If there is a more general picture Im not sure.
 
2010-12-20 09:56:49 PM
gaspode: One of my nephews hit his brother with a golf club yesterday. I actually DO suspect the R18 video games they play ALL the time are proving to be a very bad idea for these kids at least. If there is a more general picture Im not sure.

I think your nephew has simply never been hit with a golf club before, if he's going around hitting others with it.

That, or he's a little kid, and is acting stupid, like many little boys are wont to do.

Kids love violence, be it pretend violence in the form of hitting each other with sticks (clubs), or video game/television violence.
 
2010-12-21 01:40:57 AM
Maybe this explains why the S Koreans are kicking our butt in science, math, and reading.

Or, maybe not.
 
2010-12-21 02:39:04 AM
So they pretty much publish a summery of Everything Bad is Good for You by Steven Johnson.
 
2010-12-21 02:49:33 AM
Extreme_Lukewarm: On a side note: BIG STEAM SALE! (new window)

Wow, look out dude, my wife is going to be pissed at you.

You poor sonofabiatch.
 
2010-12-21 03:02:25 AM
$7 for BFBC2? deal!
 
2010-12-21 01:59:26 PM
Most NPCs in games are not realistic enough to merit consideration. Games know they are not real people, but NPCs. They often fall into the "uncanny valley" which prevents people from viewing them as real people.

That being said, games are always more fun if you can "step into character" and enjoy what simulated social interaction is offered. Some RPGs are great for this; but when the scripted interactions are played out, all you are left with is "I saw some mud-crabs down by the lake" and the illusion wears off.

Then there is the question of in game economics. Most gamers are natural in-game pack rats; we want the best guns and we dont want to run out of ammo or potions at the crucial time.

So what happens when that NPC is no longer good for dialogue or in game interaction, and happens to be holding that rare ammo or item? You step out of character, kill the dude, and step back into character, even if your character is the good guy who saves everyone and would gladly die in place of a total stranger.

The bottom line is most people who do horrible things in game have to enter an "its just a game" mindset before they can pull the trigger. Anyone who can get into character and enjoy playing as the "evil" character who murders people in the mindset of actually murdering them as social interaction scares me. Personally, I can't do it. If an RPG offers an "evil" plot tree, I miss it every time.
 
2010-12-21 03:09:25 PM
www.blogcdn.com
REMEMBER WHEN YOU MURDERED ME?


/hot like the Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator
 
2010-12-21 03:24:37 PM
Perhaps, but is our kinds learning?
 
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