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(New York Daily News)   Once again, a prevent defense prevents victory. Naturally, in Tom Coughlin's world this is the punter's fault. Way to make Rex Ryan look classy in comparison, coach   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Tom Coughlin, onside kick, Justin Tuck, Perry Fewell, Giants, prevent defense, new meadowlands, DeSean Jackson  
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2663 clicks; posted to Sports » on 20 Dec 2010 at 10:49 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-20 10:51:41 AM  
If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.
 
2010-12-20 10:52:37 AM  
To copy and paste my comment from the main page thread, with one little addition:

"NFL punter and NFL kicker are two of the last jobs in the world I'd want, for two main reasons.

1) Even getting the job means you're one of the best in the world at it, and yet you still might not be that good.
2) With a few exceptions, people only remember you if you fark up. And your fark-ups are usually on a big stage.

But seriously, you can't put this all on Dodge. After the Boss TD the defense gave up 3 touchdowns, the offense had the ball twice and couldn't do anything, the onside kick caught them completely by surprise. Complete breakdown in every aspect of the game. It was sickening to watch."
 
2010-12-20 10:53:16 AM  
I like how Coughlin shows up his rookie punter, but not the other 10 guys who got torched on the play.

Or the Special Teams coach for not being prepared for a 'surprise' onsides kick.
 
2010-12-20 10:55:02 AM  

GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.


How about playing the same defense strategy/scheme in the 4th quarter that held the Eagles to 10 points through the first three? Seriously, could it have done worse that what they put out there, and gave up 28 on?
 
2010-12-20 10:55:03 AM  
He was told to kick it out of bounds and he didn't.

I remember Josh Miller doing something like this in Pittsburgh and Bill Cowher screamed and yelled at him until he was blue in the face and then yelled some more.

Josh Miller, coincidentally, was fired at the end of that year.
 
2010-12-20 10:55:49 AM  
So Vick torching the blitz multiple times during the last three drives didn't really happen?

Life's certainties: death, taxes, and lazy sportswriters blaming defensive collapses on the prevent defense.
 
2010-12-20 10:57:25 AM  
Don't you hate it when you're watching a game with a bunch of people and there's some guy in the room who keeps saying "prevent prevents you from winning" like is it's some type of sage insight into the game.
 
2010-12-20 10:58:20 AM  
It's weird thinking that Reid not challenging the Jackson fumble may have saved the game. It is also weird having an Eagles team that comes back in the 4th and doesn't throw the game away in the 4th (the Titans' game doesn't count).
 
2010-12-20 10:58:52 AM  
As sweet as a vicroty as it was, the Eagles sure played like crap for 3 1/2 quarters. The defense was terrible and the offense much worse. They shouldn't have to score 28 points in 8 minutes to win games. Still, they won and the giants lost as humiliatingly as possible
 
2010-12-20 10:59:30 AM  

keypusher: So Vick torching the blitz multiple times during the last three drives didn't really happen?


There were several plays throughout the game where I was thinking "There is only one QB in the NFL that could have made that play and he's on the field now, against the Giants." The dude is unbelievable.
 
2010-12-20 10:59:53 AM  
I admittedly only watched the end of that game, but don't see how any game with that kind of score (dead even) could be seen as a defensive victory for either team. Obviously there wasn't much defense on either team. Just like the Cowboys/Redskins game.
 
2010-12-20 11:04:49 AM  
I'm not saying the Giants didn't change their strategy in the fourth quarter, but what I do know is that they were still blitzing with the game on the line and not playing prevent.
 
2010-12-20 11:07:03 AM  
Here's my idea of what should have happened on the punt: Four or five guys should have stayed back to guard to goal line. All they had to do was not let him score and the clock would be all zeros. If the punt was kicked out of bounds, no harm, no foul.
 
2010-12-20 11:07:41 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Don't you hate it when you're watching a game with a bunch of people and there's some guy in the room who keeps saying "prevent prevents you from winning" like is it's some type of sage insight into the game.


Be easy. It may be a Jets fan who's been hopelessly scarred since the Joe Walton era.
 
2010-12-20 11:10:25 AM  

Some Texan: I admittedly only watched the end of that game, but don't see how any game with that kind of score (dead even) could be seen as a defensive victory for either team. Obviously there wasn't much defense on either team. Just like the Cowboys/Redskins game.


It wasn't a defensive victory for Dimitri Patterson, that's for sure.
 
2010-12-20 11:10:57 AM  
I love the shot of Coughlin tearing off his headset and just losing it at the end
 
2010-12-20 11:17:49 AM  

jake3988: He was told to kick it out of bounds and he didn't.


Yep, the punter failed. The long-snapper failed the punter, as it turns out. The return-defense choked on it, every one.

The offense couldn't hold on to the ball any more, and the defense got burned on play after play after play. All of these people were told to do something and didn't... play after play after play.

Sure, blame the punter. He's a lot less intimidating than the mountains of humanity that got embarrassed by Vick over and over.
 
2010-12-20 11:17:50 AM  
Check out the cover of the NY Post this morning:
[image from hypervocal.com too old to be available]

/stay classy
 
2010-12-20 11:17:52 AM  

GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.


How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.
 
2010-12-20 11:19:55 AM  
No question at all that Dodge screwed up big time. Coach tells you to kick it out of bounds, you kick it out of bounds.

But yeah, clearly he wasn't solely responsible for the team blowing it. It was a team effort, with every player contributing their share of the suck.

And honestly I've never quite seen anything like that last 7 1/2 minutes. As a Giant's fan, it brought back hazy memories of this game (new window). That was worse because it was a playoff game, but this was a far worse collapse.
 
2010-12-20 11:20:39 AM  
 
2010-12-20 11:23:24 AM  

Six-Wings: Check out the cover of the NY Post this morning:


/stay classy


Yeah, because if there is one thing you don't want to do it is mock a felon for felon. I don't feel sorry for Vick. Good for him for coming back a better player than he was before prison, but he is still a low life dirtbag, just like his brother.

factoryconnection: The return-defense choked on it, every one.


Often times return defenses will get out of whack on a muffed punt thus creating a big return. They end up leaving their assignments because they see ball hit ground.

Good muff by Jackson.
 
2010-12-20 11:23:36 AM  

srhp29: GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.

How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.


THIS.

Acting like the "prevent" line is wrong because it annoys you does not unvalidate the fact that it's correct. This is why I like PBB&J guy. He'll keep his foot on your throat until your windpipe is good and smashed.
 
2010-12-20 11:24:19 AM  

Supes: And honestly I've never quite seen anything like that last 7 1/2 minutes. As a Giant's fan, it brought back hazy memories of this game (new window). That was worse because it was a playoff game, but this was a far worse collapse.


Your link wasn't there, but I'm guessing you meant the playoff game against the 49ers after the '02 season. Which is why I was saying that yesterday was the worst regular-season game I've seen, as opposed to worst game period.

Though I'm also a Mets fan and have already been through what I imagine will end up being the worst sports-related period of my life. Helps soften the blow somewhat. So I have that going for me, I guess.
 
2010-12-20 11:24:20 AM  
I was watching this game yesterday at a bar in Doylestown, suburban Philadelphia. I will never be able to forget the feeling that everyone had after that on sides kick recovery by Riley Cooper. It was like, maybe we can really do this.

When Jackson picked up the muffed punt, everyone fell silent, almost anticipating something terrible. When Jason Avant made the last block that opened the way for Jackson to score, the place erupted. I have no idea how the bar I was in still has a roof on the place. I've never seen a crowd of people go from so dejected at half time all way to complete jubilation and hugging strangers over a regular season game like that. Best comeback I have ever seen. Possibly the best regular season game.

\i know, i know, csb.
 
2010-12-20 11:26:19 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Don't you hate it when you're watching a game with a bunch of people and there's some guy in the room who keeps saying "prevent prevents you from winning" like is it's some type of sage insight into the game.


This is but one reason I tend to not watch games with other people... I like watching football, not listening to people who have no clue about the game (which means I have to mute the TV a lot)
 
2010-12-20 11:27:18 AM  

srhp29: Yeah, because if there is one thing you don't want to do it is mock a felon for felon. I don't feel sorry for Vick. Good for him for coming back a better player than he was before prison, but he is still a low life dirtbag, just like his brother.


You sound like a butthurt Giants fan. That cover is funny but it's something I would expect to see someone here on Fark come up with, not a professional publication
 
2010-12-20 11:27:19 AM  

Jim from Saint Paul: srhp29: GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.

How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.

THIS.

Acting like the "prevent" line is wrong because it annoys you does not unvalidate the fact that it's correct.


Except that it didn't, y'know, actually happen. The Giants were blitzing constantly over the last 7 1/2 minutes and getting killed.
 
2010-12-20 11:29:02 AM  

tuffsnake: srhp29: Yeah, because if there is one thing you don't want to do it is mock a felon for felon. I don't feel sorry for Vick. Good for him for coming back a better player than he was before prison, but he is still a low life dirtbag, just like his brother.

You sound like a butthurt Giants fan. That cover is funny but it's something I would expect to see someone here on Fark come up with, not a professional publication


It's the New York Post. Nobody should be surprised.

/Fully in the "What Vick did was horrible, but he paid his debt" camp
 
2010-12-20 11:29:49 AM  

srhp29: How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.


I'm sure the Giants' head office needs your expert help. Not much prevent being played in the red zone. For that matter, as others pointed out, I'm not sure how much prevent was being played when they were still blitzing. Celek would have needed to beat more than one guy if the Giants were playing prevent. A drive or two by the Giants' offense would have run out the clock -- maybe they were playing prevent offense too?
 
2010-12-20 11:30:47 AM  
assets.nydailynews.comView Full Size
cdn.bleacherreport.netView Full Size
 
2010-12-20 11:31:05 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


/hot like a 65 yard punt return to end the game
 
2010-12-20 11:31:06 AM  

tuffsnake: srhp29: Yeah, because if there is one thing you don't want to do it is mock a felon for felon. I don't feel sorry for Vick. Good for him for coming back a better player than he was before prison, but he is still a low life dirtbag, just like his brother.

You sound like a butthurt Giants fan. That cover is funny but it's something I would expect to see someone here on Fark come up with, not a professional publication


Can't stand the Giants. I guess in your little world you have to be a Giants fan to think Vick is a low life?

And, it's the New York Post...Hardly "professional", like the Giants.
 
2010-12-20 11:32:45 AM  

GoodyearPimp: srhp29: How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.

I'm sure the Giants' head office needs your expert help. Not much prevent being played in the red zone. For that matter, as others pointed out, I'm not sure how much prevent was being played when they were still blitzing. Celek would have needed to beat more than one guy if the Giants were playing prevent. A drive or two by the Giants' offense would have run out the clock -- maybe they were playing prevent offense too?


Didn't actually watch the game so only based my comment off of the headline and the post I was replying to, but thanks for the recap.
 
2010-12-20 11:34:19 AM  

tuffsnake:
You sound like a butthurt Giants fan. That cover is funny but it's something I would expect to see someone here on Fark come up with, not a professional publication


I see you aren't familiar with the New York Post.
 
2010-12-20 11:35:07 AM  

keypusher: Jim from Saint Paul: srhp29: GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.

How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.

THIS.

Acting like the "prevent" line is wrong because it annoys you does not unvalidate the fact that it's correct.

Except that it didn't, y'know, actually happen. The Giants were blitzing constantly over the last 7 1/2 minutes and getting killed.


So maybe the lesson is you don't always have to blitz.

If you always blitz it becomes routine, you're expecting 5 or 6 guys coming. If you normally bring 3-4 and suddenly have 5 or 6 then it's panic time for the OL because they've settled into their routine.

Especially with Vick, I'd think you would want to blitz less. Send 4 guys maintain containment as best as possible. Have 7 guys covering the open receivers. What happens if you send 5 guys and Vick breaks contain? You have 6 guys 15 yards off the line of scrimmage
 
2010-12-20 11:36:23 AM  

GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.


LINK

The way football should be played...Balls to the wall.
 
2010-12-20 11:38:33 AM  

taylonr: Rapmaster2000: Don't you hate it when you're watching a game with a bunch of people and there's some guy in the room who keeps saying "prevent prevents you from winning" like is it's some type of sage insight into the game.

This is but one reason I tend to not watch games with other people... I like watching football, not listening to people who have no clue about the game (which means I have to mute the TV a lot)


When I watch games in bars, there always seems to be someone around me who doesn't understand throwing the ball away. It's usually a girl who is a big fan of UGA. "Omigod he just threw the ball out of bounds, God, that guy sucks!"
 
2010-12-20 11:39:19 AM  
Remember way back when during the season when Giants fans were giving Jets fans hell because their team and coaching collapsed when it counted?

Well the Giants certainly took all of THAT heat off of the Jets for awhile. I have never seen such a fast and monumental breakdown of every aspect of the game of football during one half of one quarter of a game in my life. I reckon that I will never live long enough to see another one. Nobody who saw that will. You couldnt throw a game that badly for all the money in Vegas. Not and make it look real. I have no idea how the Giants can put that game out of their minds this season and pretend like they are professionals. It was that damned bad. Hell the beatdown the Eagles put on the Redskins wasnt even that humiliating.
 
2010-12-20 11:41:42 AM  

Rapmaster2000: When I watch games in bars, there always seems to be someone around me who doesn't understand throwing the ball away. It's usually a girl who is a big fan of UGA. "Omigod he just threw the ball out of bounds, God, that guy sucks!"


I hear she's calling games for the Big 10-11-12 next year
 
2010-12-20 11:42:47 AM  

taylonr: keypusher: Jim from Saint Paul: srhp29: GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.

How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.

THIS.

Acting like the "prevent" line is wrong because it annoys you does not unvalidate the fact that it's correct.

Except that it didn't, y'know, actually happen. The Giants were blitzing constantly over the last 7 1/2 minutes and getting killed.

So maybe the lesson is you don't always have to blitz.

If you always blitz it becomes routine, you're expecting 5 or 6 guys coming. If you normally bring 3-4 and suddenly have 5 or 6 then it's panic time for the OL because they've settled into their routine.

Especially with Vick, I'd think you would want to blitz less. Send 4 guys maintain containment as best as possible. Have 7 guys covering the open receivers. What happens if you send 5 guys and Vick breaks contain? You have 6 guys 15 yards off the line of scrimmage


So maybe if we can't blame the Giants for cowardice, we can get 'em for recklessness? Unfortunately for this appealing theory, when the Giants were mauling Vick for the first 3 1/2 quarters, they were blitzing a lot. And when he was eating them alive, they were still blitzing a lot. Even the announcers noticed.

And making four guys keep containment on Vick means no pressure. You're going to let him sit back there all day? Doesn't seem like a foolproof strategy to me.

Football is a difficult game, and Vick is a great player.
 
2010-12-20 11:43:38 AM  
I envy the guy who was in the Philly bar for the 4th quarter. Must have been an awesome drinking event.

/9ers fan, no dog in hunt
//Vick lit it up, no doubt about that
 
2010-12-20 11:43:51 AM  
I am so pissed that I turned off the game after the Boss TD.

/had a 3 hour drive
//caught ending on Giants radio broadcast
 
2010-12-20 11:46:53 AM  

srhp29: I guess in your little world you have to be a Giants fan to think Vick is a low life?


*clicks profile*

Well I'll be, I didn't realize there were people on Fark outside the east coast. This changes everything.

/I thought you people on the west coast were supposed to be jolly
//Enjoy losing to Auburn in the BCS Championship :)
 
2010-12-20 11:49:10 AM  

tuffsnake: srhp29: I guess in your little world you have to be a Giants fan to think Vick is a low life?

*clicks profile*

Well I'll be, I didn't realize there were people on Fark outside the east coast. This changes everything.

/I thought you people on the west coast were supposed to be jolly
//Enjoy losing to Auburn in the BCS Championship :)


I'll enjoy that more than playing/winning any other bowl game...if that happens.
 
2010-12-20 11:49:54 AM  

keypusher: taylonr: keypusher: Jim from Saint Paul: srhp29: GoodyearPimp: If you've got a better defensive strategy, I'm sure the NFL is all ears.

How bout just playing it like you do the rest of the game? I would say that is a far better strategy than a prevent.

THIS.

Acting like the "prevent" line is wrong because it annoys you does not unvalidate the fact that it's correct.

Except that it didn't, y'know, actually happen. The Giants were blitzing constantly over the last 7 1/2 minutes and getting killed.

So maybe the lesson is you don't always have to blitz.

If you always blitz it becomes routine, you're expecting 5 or 6 guys coming. If you normally bring 3-4 and suddenly have 5 or 6 then it's panic time for the OL because they've settled into their routine.

Especially with Vick, I'd think you would want to blitz less. Send 4 guys maintain containment as best as possible. Have 7 guys covering the open receivers. What happens if you send 5 guys and Vick breaks contain? You have 6 guys 15 yards off the line of scrimmage

So maybe if we can't blame the Giants for cowardice, we can get 'em for recklessness? Unfortunately for this appealing theory, when the Giants were mauling Vick for the first 3 1/2 quarters, they were blitzing a lot. And when he was eating them alive, they were still blitzing a lot. Even the announcers noticed.

And making four guys keep containment on Vick means no pressure. You're going to let him sit back there all day? Doesn't seem like a foolproof strategy to me.

Football is a difficult game, and Vick is a great player.


Obviously I didn't watch the game. I was at a b-day party, and would have been watching my Chiefs beat the Rams had I been at home.

That said, I'm not saying never blitz. I'm just advocating not always blitzing. Sometimes not blitzing on obvious passing situations has the desired effect. The QB is so used to being blitzed on 3rd down. Suddenly he's not, he reacts poorly thinking he has to deliver a quick pass and the D is there to break it up.

I think always laying back or always coming with the blitz are both fraught with errors. Yet that's what the average fan wants "Why did/didn't you blitz??!?!?!"

Also, I'm guessing some random incomplete pass by Eli in the 4th Q is as much to blame. That pass is complete, the clock continues to run and most likely there aren't 14 seconds left when its time to punt.
 
2010-12-20 11:50:32 AM  
Ok, I am willing to concede that they didn;t lay off the Eagles as much as they didn't contatin vick later.

Sure, the Eagles stepped up. Where does the blame go for the Giants part of it? You can't cough up a 21 point lead in barely more then half a quarter and not have SOME farkup somewhere. What the hell did they do wrong Giants fans?
 
2010-12-20 11:51:45 AM  
Ironic that this happened on the day Bill Cowher said he wanted to coach the G-men.
 
2010-12-20 11:52:39 AM  
They couldn't stop Vick at all, it was pathetic.

Where I was watching the game, an Eagles fan started yelling "Do you believe in miracles!" like it was the guiding hand of Jesus that helped Jackson (that classless prick) into the endzone.
 
2010-12-20 11:53:06 AM  

jake3988: He was told to kick it out of bounds and he didn't.

I remember Josh Miller doing something like this in Pittsburgh and Bill Cowher screamed and yelled at him until he was blue in the face and then yelled some more.

Josh Miller, coincidentally, was fired at the end of that year.


Exactly, this kicker has been terrible all season, bring back Feagles.
 
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