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(National Post)   "I'd like an abortion, doctor. Just the twin on the right, thanks"   (nationalpost.com) divider line 622
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20665 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2010 at 12:26 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-13 03:04:20 PM
crazyeddie: quoinguy: ManOfTeal: Phony_Soldier: Her body, her choice.

EXACTLY!!!!

I disagree. The pro-abortion side can say that if they relinquish the financial tie foisted upon guys who don't want the kids. It's always amazed me you can say "her body", but then demand money if the guy wants no part of it.

A proper legal finding would be make sure both parents agree to the abortion before it can be done, or dissolve any financial burden for the men across the board.

The hypocrisy of women saying they "own their body" if they want to kill the kid and the dad doesn't, then expecting to get paid if they want the kids and the sperm donor doesn't has always amazed me.

I don't know what kind of crack they smoke in Milwaukee, but there is an obvious and clear distinction between the pregnancy and the parenthood, thus removing the so called hypocrisy.

It's her choice to undergo the risks and potential complications of having another organism hijack the use of her organs and deplete her immune system for nine months. She can die from it. You do not undergo this medical condition and for this reason you don't get to have a say in it.

Once the baby is born, it becomes a social responsibility shared (in our society) by the closest genetic contributors. You would have half a case if your argument was "both men and women should have a say in whether a baby is adopted."

As it stands now, though, you just sound farking retarded.


I know the concepts have already been decided through the courts, yada, yada....

That being said--it's still crap and hypocritical. If women want pure control of their complete life and body, they should rally for the dissolution of financial support. Forcing a guy to pay for a kid he doesn't want is slavery. And killing a kid he wants to raise--possibly by himself if she doesn't want to stick around--is a crime against humanity.

A friend of mine had his child killed by the "mother" and it still bothers him.

I stand by the point it's hypocritical for the laws to be stacked against guys. If females want to kill children, they should be on their own financially.
 
2010-12-13 03:05:46 PM
FTA: When do children become a commodity?

More like, when weren't children a commodity? Shiat, my parents hired me out for odd jobs to neighbors when I was a kid, and I only got to keep a lousy 60% pre-tax. Our neighborhood had a goddamn kid commodity futures trading market. Generated some serious competition issues; why, I knew three different families that engaged in IVF in order to sprout triplets & quadruplets.
 
2010-12-13 03:06:05 PM
First trimester abortion needs to be completely legal, and the woman shouldn't be required to provide a reason.

/cool opinion, bro
 
2010-12-13 03:06:34 PM
PDX Ghost Hunter: Let's throw a skunk on the table.

What if you knew for a fact one of the twins was a ginger?

Changes things doesn't it?


by Ginger, do you mean the plant? What if one of the twins was a plant? That's what you're asking?
 
2010-12-13 03:07:29 PM
itazurakko: So yeah, in a lot of circles there's not much sympathy for the people who wait until their 40's to start in with kids and then have problems.

But she didn't have problems related to her age. She had twins when she didn't want them. That has nothing to do with what age she chose to get pregnant. I'm not even sure what that whole paragraph had to do with this article, or the person you were responding to, actually.
 
2010-12-13 03:08:00 PM
pto892: SphericalTime: I don't understand taking that option. I always wanted twins. If both were healthy, there's no way I'd do that.

You say that now, but you have no idea what you are in for with twins. How people with triplets and above can handle it is beyond me.

The woman in the article is a horrible person. Just saying. Yes, she has the right and any reason is as good as any other but doing what she did because it was convenient says a lot about her (and her husband).

/father of twins


You handle triplets the same way you handle twins: you do what you have to do.

If you can handle twins, you can handle triplets. Think of it this way, twins are a 100% jump from a singleton, triplets are only a 50% jump up from twins.
 
2010-12-13 03:08:41 PM
Arab Lover: PDX Ghost Hunter: Let's throw a skunk on the table.

What if you knew for a fact one of the twins was a ginger?

Changes things doesn't it?

by Ginger, do you mean the plant? What if one of the twins was a plant? That's what you're asking?



Yeah, what's wrong with ginger?
 
2010-12-13 03:08:43 PM
Arab Lover: PDX Ghost Hunter: Let's throw a skunk on the table.

What if you knew for a fact one of the twins was a ginger?

Changes things doesn't it?

by Ginger, do you mean the plant? What if one of the twins was a plant? That's what you're asking?


What's a google?
 
2010-12-13 03:09:24 PM
SideshowRaheem: First trimester abortion needs to be completely legal, and the woman shouldn't be required to provide a reason.


farking THIS right here.
 
2010-12-13 03:09:50 PM
Arab Lover: PDX Ghost Hunter: Let's throw a skunk on the table.

What if you knew for a fact one of the twins was a ginger?

Changes things doesn't it?

by Ginger, do you mean the plant? What if one of the twins was a plant? That's what you're asking?


Yes because you apparently don't know how to use Google....for you "a ginger" is a plant.....go with that...tell your friends.
 
2010-12-13 03:12:54 PM
"You can adequately raise a child on 40-50 G / a year and they turn out great."

Seriously? Where? I'm single, don't have debt (knock on wood) and can barely live on that much. Not in a major city, where most jobs are. If I live somewhere outside of the city the commute costs kill the savings.
 
2010-12-13 03:13:39 PM
ManOfTeal: Arab Lover: PDX Ghost Hunter: Let's throw a skunk on the table.

What if you knew for a fact one of the twins was a ginger?

Changes things doesn't it?

by Ginger, do you mean the plant? What if one of the twins was a plant? That's what you're asking?

Yes because you apparently don't know how to use Google....for you "a ginger" is a plant.....go with that...tell your friends.


He probably also wonders why people are specifically interested in rudders produced by the dutch, trombones that have oxidized, and bundles of sticks. Life is a confusing and awkward place for this one.
 
2010-12-13 03:14:04 PM
tbird89: Those who say "her body, her choice" must be also be for the legalization of all drugs.

Seriously, I wish anti-lifers would vacate their ridiculous notion that mothers can abort their babies simply out of convenience.


Since it happens all the time, it isn't a "ridiculous notion" it is reality.
 
2010-12-13 03:15:11 PM
un4gvn666: But she didn't have problems related to her age. She had twins when she didn't want them. That has nothing to do with what age she chose to get pregnant. I'm not even sure what that whole paragraph had to do with this article, or the person you were responding to, actually.

The thread, it has expanded.

The original woman from TFA I think is only getting heat for the vapid way in which she phrased her reasoning.

To a lot of people, it reads as "it's not worth having kids unless I can raise them in a certain (read: wealthy) lifestyle."

Comparing it to the general issue of selective reduction, and the issue of ordinary singleton abortion, yeah, what she's doing isn't so crazy unusual and thinking about it, I can't really scream at her for it either.

But I think the root of the unease people feel with her decision is due to how she phrased her reasoning, plus the fact that she is GOING to go through a pregnancy anyway (unlike the people who abort a singleton) and plenty of people have twins uneventfully all the time (unlike people who are pregnant with 4+ embryos, where the medical staff WILL recommend selective reduction for health reasons).
 
2010-12-13 03:16:08 PM
RedEmily: Yeah, what's wrong with ginger?

No need to get defensive. Nobody's judging you for your deviant lifestyle choices.
 
2010-12-13 03:16:29 PM
threedingers: If you can handle twins, you can handle triplets. Think of it this way, twins are a 100% jump from a singleton, triplets are only a 50% jump up from twins.

Yeah but you only have two boobs!

/surely management skills take care of that problem though...
 
2010-12-13 03:16:49 PM
tbird89: Those who say "her body, her choice" must be also be for the legalization of all drugs.

Seriously, I wish anti-lifers would vacate their ridiculous notion that mothers can abort their babies simply out of convenience.


Um, it is her body, and her choice. And actually, I am for the legalization of all drugs. Calling me "anti-life", though, makes you a genuine asshole.
 
2010-12-13 03:17:47 PM
hyper: "You can adequately raise a child on 40-50 G / a year and they turn out great."

Seriously? Where? I'm single, don't have debt (knock on wood) and can barely live on that much. Not in a major city, where most jobs are. If I live somewhere outside of the city the commute costs kill the savings.


Time to sit down with the finances and make some decisions. Are your monthly payments larger than they have to be? Get cheaper goods. Need a big ticket item? Save for it and stop using credit. 50k is more than enough to live comfortably so long as you make good decisions.
 
2010-12-13 03:17:57 PM
As soon as his father walked in, that night, Nwoye knew that Ikemefuna had been killed, and something seemed to give way inside him, like the snapping of a tightened bow. He did not cry. He just hung limp. He had had the same kind of feeling not long ago, during the last harvest season.

Every child loved the harvest season. Those who were big enough to carry even a few yams in a tiny basket went with grown-ups to the farm. And if they could not help in digging up the yams, they could gather firewood together for roasting the ones that would be eaten there on the farm. This roasted yam soaked in red palm-oil and eaten in the open farm was sweeter than any meal at home.

It was after such a day at the farm during the last harvest that Nwoye had felt for the first time a snapping inside him like the one he now felt. They were returning home with baskets of yams from a distant farm across the stream when they heard the voice of an infant crying in the thick forest. A sudden hush had fallen on the women, who had been talking, and they had quickened their steps. Nwoye had heard that twins were put in earthenware pots and thrown away in the forest, but he had never yet come across them.

A vague chill had descended on him and his head had seemed to swell, like a solitary walker at night who passes an evil spirit on the way. Then something had given way inside him. It descended on him again, this feeling, when his father walked in, that night after killing Ikemefuna.


**********

[Obierika] remembered his wife's twin children, whom he had thrown away. What crime had they committed? The Earth had decreed that they were an offense on the land and must be destroyed. And if the clan did not exact punishment for an offense against the great goddess, her wrath was loosed on all the land and not just on the offender
 
2010-12-13 03:19:21 PM
Ginger, example
 
2010-12-13 03:19:28 PM
TheKnownUniverse: I think she should carry both to term, then breastfeed them in restaurants and take them on airplanes.

LOL. Or I would have, if I weren't in the wrong place to do it.
 
2010-12-13 03:20:25 PM
Arab Lover: Ginger, example

Arab Lover: Ginger, example

See: "Gilligan's Island"
 
2010-12-13 03:20:27 PM
hyper: Seriously? Where?

Median household income in the US is around $50K, and plenty of people are having and raising kids just fine.
 
2010-12-13 03:20:29 PM
tbird89:
Seriously, I wish anti-lifers would vacate their ridiculous notion that mothers can abort their babies simply out of convenience.


They can, and do. What makes it a ridiculous notion?
 
2010-12-13 03:23:33 PM
I am 41 and this is the first time I have ever read or heard about selective reduction.

I do find it very disturbing even though I am pro choice.

This is how I see the conversation going in about 13 or 14 years:

Mother: "Honey, there is something you need to know."
Son: "What's that?"
Mother: "You were part of a twin pregnancy, but the other twin didn't make it."
Son: "Well what happened to him? Did you get into an accident or something?"
Mother: "No, we just felt it would be better to only have 2 children instead of 3 and we had one half of the pregnancy terminated. We were thinking about you when we made this decision. We could not afford to give 3 kids all the love and attention they need, so we decided to make sure we only had 2 kids."
Son: "I feel like I am going to throw up. I hate you for killing my brother! Don't ever talk to me again."
 
2010-12-13 03:24:54 PM
quoinguy: That being said--it's still crap and hypocritical. If women want pure control of their complete life and body, they should rally for the dissolution of financial support.
This tells me that you didn't understand my point that there are two different issues at play. The fact that she undergoes a medical condition means that she is the only one who gets to have a say, just like any other adult undergoing a medical condition. This is irrelevant to the issue of society's stance on financial support.

Why would they rally for the dissolution of finanical support? Do we have a problem in this country where single women are living high on the hog while single men toil for slave wages? It's the opposite, because the problem we have is with deadbeat dads who abandon their own children because they are too cowardly to step up.

Forcing a guy to pay for a kid he doesn't want is slavery. But women should be forced to pay for a child she doesn't want? Isn't that what you are advocating? There are two issues. PREGNANCY, and PARENTHOOD. She can agree to the first without agreeing to the second (See: "Adoption")

And killing a kid fetus he wants to raise--possibly by himself if she doesn't want to stick around--is a crime against humanity.
Women have this thing called a womb. It means that women are the arbiters of who comes into this world and who does not. You enjoy many privledges as a man (such as the right to belch loudly and the right to pee standing up with little or no mess). Women enjoy exclusive ownership of a precious organ that sustains the fetus as it develops. YOUR job as a male is to find a female willing to lend her womb for the sake of your progeny. HER job is to determine which males will stick around and provide resources. That's the way we evolved. The fact that you don't like it has nothing to do with whether it is true.

A friend of mine had his child fetus killed by the "mother" and it still bothers him.
Sounds like your "friend" made a bad choice by not working that stuff out ahead of time. It's like putting your valuable stuff in some random storage locker and then complaining when it goes missing. YOU have an obligation to protect your seeds, if that's what you want.

I stand by the point it's hypocritical for the laws to be stacked against guys.
1. They aren't "stacked against" guys, unless you mean that society/the state expects you to help raise the children you create. The amount a male typically pays in child support is absolutely laughable to the total cost of raising a child.
2. Don't let all my other points that prove you wrong get in the way of holding a bad opinion. I mean, you've held this idea for so long, why discard it now just because someone shows you how wrong you are? Keep on truckin'....
 
2010-12-13 03:25:20 PM
My dumbass boyfriend knocked me up when I was 14. He kept on saying that he wanted me to have an abortion. I said I didn't want to and that I would raise little Sammi (I just knew it was a girl) by myself. He says fine but he's not going to help with it. So I said fine I'll do it myself with the help of my parents. So I'm walking to school on a friday morning. I was about 4 months pregnant. As I cross the street he hits me with the car he was driving. Long story short, there was alot of blood and I lost the baby. Moral of the story: wait for the crossing guard to flash her stop sign before you cross the street.
 
2010-12-13 03:26:14 PM
wruley: Mother: "Honey, there is something you need to know."

Well, aside from the fact that this particular woman now has her story all over the paper and in various threads like this one, why would a mother in this situation ever need to tell her kid this?
 
2010-12-13 03:26:27 PM
Simple temporary solution to the abortion "problem."

Forced sterilization on EVERYONE until every unwanted child in the world is adopted, cared and provided for.

Until then, no more new babies.
 
2010-12-13 03:26:48 PM
RedEmily: My dumbass boyfriend knocked me up when I was 14. He kept on saying that he wanted me to have an abortion. I said I didn't want to and that I would raise little Sammi (I just knew it was a girl) by myself. He says fine but he's not going to help with it. So I said fine I'll do it myself with the help of my parents. So I'm walking to school on a friday morning. I was about 4 months pregnant. As I cross the street he hits me with the car he was driving. Long story short, there was alot of blood and I lost the baby. Moral of the story: wait for the crossing guard to flash her stop sign before you cross the street.

Or use birth control?


/sorry for your lots
 
2010-12-13 03:26:57 PM
DayLee: Once the brain has matured enough to be capable of feeling pain it is not a part of someone else's body. It's a life. Call it reduction if it helps you sleep at night, but it's still murder.

What does pain have to do with it? What if the embryo brain hasn't developed enough for it to feel pain, then that's ok to abort?
 
2010-12-13 03:26:58 PM
Dracolich: He probably also wonders why people are specifically interested in rudders produced by the dutch, trombones that have oxidized, and bundles of sticks. Life is a confusing and awkward place for this one.

all this attention made me so excited i had to go play with myself. winks!
 
2010-12-13 03:27:20 PM
quoinguy: ManOfTeal: Phony_Soldier: Her body, her choice.
EXACTLY!!!!
I disagree. The pro-abortion side can say that if they relinquish the financial tie foisted upon guys who don't want the kids. It's always amazed me you can say "her body", but then demand money if the guy wants no part of it.
A proper legal finding would be make sure both parents agree to the abortion before it can be done, or dissolve any financial burden for the men across the board.
The hypocrisy of women saying they "own their body" if they want to kill the kid and the dad doesn't, then expecting to get paid if they want the kids and the sperm donor doesn't has always amazed me.


I think she should have total freedom to abort if she wants, but if the guy wants nothing to do with it, then he should be allowed to have nothing to do with it. She signs a paper saying that the baby is HERS, as far as he's concerned, he didn't even contribute the DNA.

Probably a lot of weird legal issues in there, but it's ridiculous that a man can be forced to become a father against his will, even if all he does is give money. And I'm a woman---I'd never do this to a man.
 
2010-12-13 03:28:04 PM
twincamakiko: Simple temporary solution to the abortion "problem."

Forced sterilization on EVERYONE until every unwanted child in the world is adopted, cared and provided for.

Until then, no more new babies.


But I want a white healthy one...
 
2010-12-13 03:28:30 PM
ManOfTeal: Arab Lover: Ginger, example

Arab Lover: Ginger, example

See: "Gilligan's Island"

Arab Lover: Ginger, example

Arab Lover: Ginger, example

See: "Gilligan's Island"
 
2010-12-13 03:30:31 PM
coldaze: I think she should have total freedom to abort if she wants, but if the guy wants nothing to do with it, then he should be allowed to have nothing to do with it. She signs a paper saying that the baby is HERS, as far as he's concerned, he didn't even contribute the DNA.

Probably a lot of weird legal issues in there, but it's ridiculous that a man can be forced to become a father against his will, even if all he does is give money. And I'm a woman---I'd never do this to a man.


Here is the thing. I don't care about you or the guy and what is "fair". What I care about is the baby, and that baby deserves to have two people financially responsible for his or her well being. A man is NEVER forced to become a father against his will, he made the choice when he wiggled inside her for three and a half minutes in a half drunken stupor.
 
2010-12-13 03:30:54 PM
coldaze: Probably a lot of weird legal issues in there, but it's ridiculous that a man can be forced to become a father against his will, even if all he does is give money.

This word you keep using. I don't think it means what you think it means.

How is babby formed? Was he not involved? Did she put a gun to his (lower) head?
 
2010-12-13 03:31:12 PM
itazurakko: wruley: Mother: "Honey, there is something you need to know."

Well, aside from the fact that this particular woman now has her story all over the paper and in various threads like this one, why would a mother in this situation ever need to tell her kid this?


If you need to keep it from your kid, even when they're grown, you're ashamed of it. I mean, I would be mad if I was one of those twins. I could of just as easily been "reduced." gulp. Thanks Mom.
 
2010-12-13 03:31:30 PM
wruley: This is how I see the conversation going in about 13 or 14 years:

Why the hell are we even assuming that such a conversation would take place?
 
2010-12-13 03:31:49 PM
Not seeing the issue here. A woman gets pregnant. She determines (presumably with her partner) that she cannot provide for her existing child and twins aquedately finacially or emotionally. She doesn't have twins.

The "OMG WHAT WILL THE OTHER SIBLING DO WHEN THEY FIND OUT MOMMY HAD AN ABORTION" crowd is silly. Who says she'll ever tell the surviving twin that she aborted? I dated two guys whose mothers confided in me that they'd had abortions. They had never told their kids about the abortions and why in the hell would they?
 
2010-12-13 03:33:41 PM
jst3p: coldaze: I think she should have total freedom to abort if she wants, but if the guy wants nothing to do with it, then he should be allowed to have nothing to do with it. She signs a paper saying that the baby is HERS, as far as he's concerned, he didn't even contribute the DNA.

Probably a lot of weird legal issues in there, but it's ridiculous that a man can be forced to become a father against his will, even if all he does is give money. And I'm a woman---I'd never do this to a man.

Here is the thing. I don't care about you or the guy and what is "fair". What I care about is the baby, and that baby deserves to have two people financially responsible for his or her well being. A man is NEVER forced to become a father against his will, he made the choice when he wiggled inside her for three and a half minutes in a half drunken stupor.


Why is an unborn fetus you had nothing to do with making any of your concern?
 
2010-12-13 03:33:45 PM
itazurakko: ruta: Can't be arsed to read the whole thread but has anyone brought up all the embryos on ice, donated for stem cell research or simply tossed thanks to IVF? Never mind the twins that made it to the womb, what about all of the other multiples left behind?

"Snowflake babies." Lots of fascinating googling to be had.

But yeah, I think a lot of people just willfully ignore what will inevitably happen to the vast majority of embryos in the freezer, now that IVF has been around for 30+ years.

Heaven forbid we harvest stem cells from them, because as long as we don't we can maintain the pleasant fiction that they're just in suspended animation forever, eventually surely they'll see their day.

give me doughnuts: Yes. How selfish of them to wait until they are financially secure and able to provide stable home for their children.

Well, obviously it's up to them, but absolutely there are plenty of people who would point out that there's a happy medium between having tons of kids while your family is objectively starving, and waiting until you have what you think are the "perfect" circumstances to have a kid only to find out that now you need technological assistance (which isn't cheap, so so much for the careful savings).

So yeah, in a lot of circles there's not much sympathy for the people who wait until their 40's to start in with kids and then have problems. It's like what, you thought you were too good to live frugally with a young family in your youth? Not saying it's right, but absolutely that's sentiment is out there, from families who might not be rich but aren't on the dole, either.

A happy stable family isn't only about material wealth and living in the best neighborhood with the best schools.

Sure, it's nice to not be destitute, but on the other hand you can be all safely upper middle class and still fate farks it up, too.

Aside from that though I've always wondered what it would be like for someone to have IVF, notice that one embryo in the dish has twinned, only implant ONE, then implant the other one a few years later. You'd have two kids with identical DNA but different ages.

"Wow your brother looks JUST like you at his age!"


Actually, it's been done.
http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_12734.asp
 
2010-12-13 03:34:25 PM
megalynn44: If you need to keep it from your kid, even when they're grown, you're ashamed of it.

Yes, that's the only reason someone would not tell their kid about it. The ONLY one. The situation not being any of the child's business whatsoever just doesn't factor into it, right?
 
2010-12-13 03:34:30 PM
megalynn44: If you need to keep it from your kid, even when they're grown, you're ashamed of it.

Interesting...so your parents disclosed the coitus position they used to conceive you? Did they talk about other pleasures they enjoyed that night? Did they talk about whether she orgasmed that time or not?

Oh, so just because you don't disclose something doesn't make it shameful? Good. Now that we have cleared that DERP off the table...let's continue.
 
2010-12-13 03:36:51 PM
megalynn44: itazurakko: wruley: Mother: "Honey, there is something you need to know."

Well, aside from the fact that this particular woman now has her story all over the paper and in various threads like this one, why would a mother in this situation ever need to tell her kid this?

If you need to keep it from your kid, even when they're grown, you're ashamed of it. I mean, I would be mad if I was one of those twins. I could of just as easily been "reduced." gulp. Thanks Mom.


And there could have also been a miscarriage, or any number of other perfectly natural accidents, that would give you the same results in the end. Is that any less unsettling? Does anybody seriously think often about the myriad things that could have potentially kept them from being born?
 
2010-12-13 03:38:15 PM
wruley: I am 41 and this is the first time I have ever read or heard about selective reduction.
I do find it very disturbing even though I am pro choice.
This is how I see the conversation going in about 13 or 14 years:...."


Why would you ever tell? It would be sort of like telling my kid about my miscarriages before he came along--I just wouldn't do it.

/Never had a miscarriage, BTW. But I did have an abortion once. I don't think I'll tell him. Never even occurred to me, in fact. It's ancient history.
 
2010-12-13 03:38:30 PM
ManOfTeal: jst3p: coldaze: I think she should have total freedom to abort if she wants, but if the guy wants nothing to do with it, then he should be allowed to have nothing to do with it. She signs a paper saying that the baby is HERS, as far as he's concerned, he didn't even contribute the DNA.

Probably a lot of weird legal issues in there, but it's ridiculous that a man can be forced to become a father against his will, even if all he does is give money. And I'm a woman---I'd never do this to a man.

Here is the thing. I don't care about you or the guy and what is "fair". What I care about is the baby, and that baby deserves to have two people financially responsible for his or her well being. A man is NEVER forced to become a father against his will, he made the choice when he wiggled inside her for three and a half minutes in a half drunken stupor.

Why is an unborn fetus you had nothing to do with making any of your concern?


Because I am society and I pay for the following programs:

Among custodial single mothers:

* 22% receive Medicaid
* 23.5% receive food stamps
* 12% receive some form of public housing or rent subsidy
* 5% receive receive TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families)
 
2010-12-13 03:38:50 PM
Dracolich: ments larger than they have to be? Get cheaper goods. Need a big ticket item? Save for it and stop using credit. 50k is more than enough to live

Dude I live on ramen, free office coffee and barely shop, wear hand-me downs. When I do it's clearance. After taxes, medical insurance, rent and transportation I have like 300 left in the bank. No debt. Try to raise a child on 300 a month. No pets either.
 
2010-12-13 03:41:27 PM
un4gvn666: megalynn44: If you need to keep it from your kid, even when they're grown, you're ashamed of it.

Yes, that's the only reason someone would not tell their kid about it. The ONLY one. The situation not being any of the child's business whatsoever just doesn't factor into it, right?


I don't know, I guess it depends on what kind of relationship you have with your grown child, as to whether its your child's business. My point was, I don't think I could morally justify it to my children, which means I wouldn't do it.
 
2010-12-13 03:41:35 PM
jst3p: ManOfTeal: jst3p: coldaze: I think she should have total freedom to abort if she wants, but if the guy wants nothing to do with it, then he should be allowed to have nothing to do with it. She signs a paper saying that the baby is HERS, as far as he's concerned, he didn't even contribute the DNA.

Probably a lot of weird legal issues in there, but it's ridiculous that a man can be forced to become a father against his will, even if all he does is give money. And I'm a woman---I'd never do this to a man.

Here is the thing. I don't care about you or the guy and what is "fair". What I care about is the baby, and that baby deserves to have two people financially responsible for his or her well being. A man is NEVER forced to become a father against his will, he made the choice when he wiggled inside her for three and a half minutes in a half drunken stupor.

Why is an unborn fetus you had nothing to do with making any of your concern?

Because I am society and I pay for the following programs:

Among custodial single mothers:

* 22% receive Medicaid
* 23.5% receive food stamps
* 12% receive some form of public housing or rent subsidy
* 5% receive receive TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families)


Right, so if her choice is to not have the kid you pay nothing and are completely unaffected.....it's the women that keep having kids just to get more child support and government aid that you need to get angry at.....not the woman who chooses not to have a baby.....perhaps I'm confused as to where you were going with this but I thought you were trying to make an argument for pro-life.
 
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