CapnWacky

Excellent point. I would suggest legalising drugs and spending more money on education. The thing about drugs is that you inflict damage on yourself. Guns on the other hand inflict damage on other people.

The main point is: If americans are not going to use their personal arsenals given to them under the 2nd Amendment to overthrow Holy Emperor Bush the 2nd for being a tyranical dickward, then there's no need for the 2nd Amendment. An amendment that is being abused should be repealed or canceled out.

My idea: From now on, you are only allowed to have an automatic riffle if you take an oath to use it only as a means of rebelion against the government if it becomes too tyranical. Volunteers in the armed forces have no trouble taking a similiar oath.

I believe that the constitution should be changed so that americans are not forced to show blind patriotism to a potentially fascist government. Soldiers should have a right to choose not to participate in a war they don't agree with(such as Iraq) and civilians should have a right to engaged in open rebellion against their government.

Remember, politicians are not to be trusted. Everything they say is to be taken with a grain of salt. They only look out for their own selfish intrests. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

farked up link.... Me html skilz r purty shiatty.

RightWingConspiracy

You clearly have been watching too much Fox.
Criminals like gun control, that's a funny one. The majority of guns in criminal hands have been stolen. If there were fewer guns around in lawful hands, there would be fewer guns to steal. Furthermore, there would be fewer legal gun owners killed by their own firearms, there would be fewer legal gun owner's kids that are killed in gun accidents, there would be fewer legal gun owners killing their families and there would be fewer farked up kids stealing their parents' legal guns to go on shooting rampages at high schools.
There is no debate that their are farked up people that will do farked up things whether or not they have access to a gun. It is just that a gun makes it so much easier to inflict great damage.
You should also go back to your NRA meeting.
We need less guns in this world, not more!

I don't think stronger gun laws would have prevented this. Heroin is illegal but people still get a hold of it. I think we need to change attitudes and try to bring down crime so people don't get the stupid idea in their head that they need to own a small arsenal and it will protect them from anything.

RightWingConspiracy:
you said
Bottom line: You have nothing to fear from a law-abiding gun owner.


that's the laziest statement ever. we don't need to fear law-abiding anyone. we don't need to fear law-abiding saddam or osama. stupid...

Why aren't they raising the terror alert level because of this?

Oh, right. Non-Arabs. My bad.

RightWingConspiracy

Let me explain it to you in an analogy.
My neigbour owns guns. Lots of them. Assault rifles, shotguns, semi-automatics. He would buy RPGs if he was allowed to. I don't like it. I'm afraid that one day he's going to go cookoo and go on a rampage and shoot my kids playing in the street. So I try to change the laws, I canvass support. I complain to my representative. Please investigate this guy and take his weapons from him before there is mass destruction. I get no joy. I feel more and more threatened, so what do I do? I get myself bigger weapons than him and I launch a pre-emptive strike to disarm him. Sound familiar. Is that the world you want to live in?

Table Mountain
I called your bluff on your post regarding the myth that countries with strict gun control laws are better off than the USA, and you cannot refute it.... you didn't even attempt to.

Here are more of your rants, followed up with a rebuttal for each:

"The majority of guns in criminal hands have been stolen. If there were fewer guns around in lawful hands, there would be fewer guns to steal."
If useless laws designed to outlaw theft are ineffective, why would more gun laws solve the problem?

"Furthermore, there would be fewer legal gun owners killed by their own firearms, there would be fewer legal gun owner's kids that are killed in gun accidents, there would be fewer legal gun owners killing their families and there would be fewer farked up kids stealing their parents' legal guns to go on shooting rampages at high schools."
Link 1
Link 2

And yes, criminals do love gun control laws! Think about it, if you were a shiatbag murderer,rapist, thief, etc. which home would you be more willing to break into? The one in a town with strict gun control laws that outlaw gun ownership, or the one with an "NRA Member" sticker on the window and a sign that says "Protected by Colt .45"?

Thanks for the stats sens. Makes pretty convincing reading.

RightWingConspiracy

I can promise you that I am glad I don't live in your town. I would be shait scared. Why are you still here? I the NRA meeting over?

Tablemountain:

Regarding your analogy, what kind of behaviour has your neighbor been displaying and what kinds of threats has he made (if any)? If he just has a bunch of weapons and keeps to himself I imagine you would be just fine if he left you alone.

On the other hand, if he's making threats on your life or your children's lives that's a different story. He should be locked up. Also, if he's displaying violent behavior such as aiming guns at random people or firing a weapon in a residential area he should be locked up.

To lock him up for being a gun nut is no more fair to him than locking up a muslim for praying to allah.

Ok Tabletop,

I can see I'm clearly through with you. You've made no attempt to dispute the evidence I've given you so I will trouble myself no further.

You gun control freaks are going to believe what you want no matter what kind of evidence there is to the contrary.

If you people want my guns, come and git 'em........

/loads magazine

i live in oaklyn. we have all sorts of loonies here.

Cheers RightWingConspiracy, peace brother.

2003-07-07 12:08:27 PM RightWingConspiracy:

"...I imagine you would be just fine if he left you alone."

I farked that up. I meant to say "if you left him alone."

collings ave, represent

Louiedog:

Lazy statement? Please explain. That statement simply sums up all the evidence I've been posting. If I were to make that statement without backing it up with facts, then it could be considered lazy.

/grrr

The 2nd Amendment does not allow you to carry a gun. It does not allow you to own a handgun. Your state laws do (or don't do) that.

The "right" to own guns can easily be regulated, which could include a ban on any of several types of weapons--including assault weapons, or some day pistols.

As someone who has a permit to carry in Texas I hope it never happens, but fight an argument you can win, not some BS constitutional argument that is inapplicable.

Table Mountain: My only complaint is in your analogy. You launch a pre-emptive strike against your well-armed neighbor, huh? In this scenario, your actions not only make you a criminal, but a moron. First off, you started it by attacking first. To add to that, you attacked a HEAVILY ARMED person who you fear may be mentally unbalanced. That's stupid all the way across the board.

Beyond that, I don't feel more laws will help anything. Take away everybody's guns, and you'll have crazed drug-addicts and rapists and murderers (or whatever) killing each other with sharpened popsicle sticks, or shards of a broken mirror, or tying each other up and making them smoke ten cartons of cigarettes to give them cancer, etc. etc.

/Criminals prefer unarmed victims.

FACT: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:

* Murder rates drop 8%

* Rape rates fall 5%

* Aggravated assaults drop 7%
More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right -to -carry laws.


TYPE OF CRIME HOW MUCH HIGHER IN RESTRICTIVE STATES

Violent Crime 81% higher

Murder .. 86% higher

Rape 25% higher

Assault 82% higher

Robbery.. 105% higher

Auto Theft.. 60% higher

* John Lott, David Mustard: This study involved county level crime statistics from all

3,054 counties in the U.S. from 1977 through 1992. During this time, ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the U.S. would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults- and would have saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.

abdul

It was a silly gun crazy/Iraq war analogy. The USA were in effect imposing gun control on Iraq. Not for what Iraq had done to the US, but for what it was possible that they could do to the US (at a stretch I might add). The ironic thing is that the same guys who would support the NRA in the US would support the gun control enforced by the US military. Its back to the law of the jungle.

I would like to see this world move away from might is right to the more intellectual, moral and ethical future that is possible. I believe that we should look at other first world countries as examples, including Europe, Canada, Japan and others.

And for RightWingConspiracy. Did you see the stats presented by sens? I thought they were quite clear and I did not hink they needed repeating.

Aw jeez not this shiat again. Ok fine: gun control succeeds, tomorrow you wake up and all the guns are gone. No more crime, ever right?

Oh wait, you forgot about the knives, bats, screwdrivers, pipes, wrenches, sections of garden hose, weed whackers, bowling pins and sharp pointy sticks.

I mean, duh. Criminals don't commit crimes because they suddenly realize they have a gun in their hands. If they've decided to commit a crime then they're going to.

Emperor-Jay: "The main point is:"... Very interesting. You seem to believe that the right to bear arms should come with the prerequisite "overthrow the government" clause? On whose authority is it decided that the government is "too tyrannical," and needs to be done away with? Who decided that every government coup has to be led by hillbillies waving 30-30s? It's a democracy here, you can control your government without threats of violence and death.

Holy shiat! Now I understand why some people hate guns!

Abdul, I couldn't agree more. We were renting a duplex (wife and 2 kids) with our neighbors (3 kids and a couple) who became fast friends. The neighborhood wasn't the greatest but wasn't terrible. Until the property company changed managers; the new one began to bring in all sorts of trashy types. Wannabe gang bangers and meth heads for the most part. This group of thugs in particular moved in across the street from us. The parents didn't work, junior spent his evenings sitting in the driveway selling meth till 3 in the morning and on his cell phone. Cops wouldn't do a damn thing.

We finally complained to the property company who in turn informed the manager. Not 4 hours after the complaint we had about 40 of these scumbags out front of the duplex shouting obscenities, playing death rap and a couple were visibly armed. The whole gist of their rant was, "don't fark with my scene....I'll murder you in your sleep and go to jail happy". We didn't sleep much for two weeks.

The cops did come out one time when we called but the whole neighborhood cleared out before they showed up. Not too tough when you have spotters at houses on each end of the neighborhood and run scanners. I know this because we started seeing these slime getting on their phones the second we would leave the house and calling thier buddies (our nighbor stayed inside and witnessed the little pricks checking our front doors as soon as we left).

Well one night this all escalated. There were about 40 of them outside our house one night till about 3 in the morning. We were all holed up in our house. My neighbor happens to be ex-military. He used to be a combat engineer; fought in Panama and the Gulf War....you know, the kind of guy that knows explosives and small unit tactics. And he a happened to be armed to the teeth. That evening a buch of em got all farked up and decided to try to rush his side of the house. They tried to pry open his garage while 3 of em went for the front door. He had his SKS loaded and took a shot into the floor then proceeded to chase the lot of em away. That was the end of the major showing of hoodie force. They still proceded to fark with us on a smaller scale but we moved out a week later.

Fark the criminal bastards, shoot em in the head I say.

Yup, Americans have more guns than any other country in the world, heck, that must mean it's also the safest place in the world to live!

[cawf, sarcasm, cawf]

I'd love to see a law passed in the US that as a gun owner, you're responsible for anything done with your gun, even if it's stolen. If your gun is stolen and used to murder someone, you get a few years behind bars for being an asshat and not locking your guns up properly.

N.

FACT: In Japan, the murder rate is about 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 each year by weapons other than firearms.

* United Nations data

It wouldn't matter Table Mountain

So what happens if we have no guns in America? I'll tell you what happens.

We have to kill the rage virus infecteds with machetes and baseball bats.

Be careful what you wish for.

Table Mountain: What stretch is that? There are Iraqis right now using (gasp) GUNS to shoot our soldiers. American GIs are dying because of bullets that are being shot out of guns held in the hands of militant fools. That has nothing to do with gun control at home. Here in America it's still relatively uncommon to be shot at by snipers.

I like your idea Nogami. It would certainly let those serial gun collectors think twice.

sens
Take a look at my stats.

The problem is not guns, it's people. If they didn't have a gun, they'd find a different way.

Sens & Table mountain:

This is an absolute waste of time but I'm at work and I'm bored so what the hell...
Your stats are all B.S. as confirmed by my link earlier.

Table mountain wants to ride sens' back and not back up his own argument. Pretty weak.

/loads another magazine, this time a pre-ban 15 rounder..

So a criminal breaks into my house, uninvited like and steals my firearms...then proceeds to kill someone and I go to jail. What a moronic suggestion. I hope someone steals your car, runs over a pedestrian and you are jailed because you can't prove it wasn't you doing the hit and run. You suck

Table Mountain I would like to see this world move away from might is right to the more intellectual, moral and ethical future that is possible. I believe that we should look at other first world countries as examples, including Europe, Canada, Japan and others.

In Japan, citizens have fewer protections of the right to privacy and fewer rights for criminal suspects than in the United States. Japanese police routinely search citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens' residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate is more than 99.9%.

The Tokyo Bar Association has said that the Japanese police routinely engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions. Amnesty International, Kopel noted, calls Japan's police custody system "a flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles."

abdul

"That has nothing to do with gun control at home."

Exactly, so why are you mentioning it?

ElectricMonk: Damn, that's scary. Good thing you got outta there. I can assure you any group of crackheads rushing MY house would end up being scraped off the pavement with a stick; it's lucky they decided to depart when he fired off a warning shot.

RWC: You get to load magazines at work? SWEET!

Table Mountain: You said we're imposing "gun controls" on the Iraqis. Of course we are, because they're shooting at us. But, since that has nothing to do with the argument at hand, I decided to point it out.

I decided I'd buy and keep a good weapon or two when I
saw Reginald Denny being dragged from the cab of his truck
and shot during the LA riots. think about it- I'd rather go
down with a good, honest fighting chance. I don't look for
problems, or view my weapons as a means to solve problems
or change people's minds. (that's what verbal communication
is for). but if it comes down to it, my life or the gangsta
POS, I will avail myself of the opportunity to make sure
I survive. or die trying to.

morbo

Thanks for the info on Japan. Didn't know that. Remind me not to visit.

Lol abdul! You caught me! Although I do work for a cool company I don't think they'd be in favor of that.

;)

abdul

They only started shooting at you after you invaded their country. But I told you I didn't want to go there.

The wackiest part was the irony of these jackoffs staking out the house of an ex-military "hippie". He was totally prepared for a home invasion and I certainly couldn't blame him. Once we had our wives and kids gone he went completely defensive. Had all his exterior doors rigged with shotgun traps while he slept. Some would call this extreme paranoia, I call it military training. Poor guy hadn't sleept the prior two weeks staying up at night to keep an eye out. Fark the criminals if they think pointing a handgun sideways at you compares to an SKS with a 50 round banana clip stagger loaded with ball ammo, hollow points, armor piercing rounds and phosphorous rounds (they burn fiercly on impact and cant' be extingished with water). He knew what the hell he was doing and could have laid waste to that whole block in a heartbeat. The restraint he showed was remarkable, more than one of the little farkers had causually pointed a gun at the house.

Another diabolical plot foiled by Homeland Security monitoring our every move!!

...err...nevermind.