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(Fox News)   CJCS Adm Mullen to troops: "If you can't serve with gays, then GTFO"   (foxnews.com) divider line 490
    More: Hero, CJCS Adm Mullen, GTFO, ADM, Real Clear Politics, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, military organizations, Senate Armed Services Committee, meritocracy  
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20809 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2010 at 1:03 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-02 01:20:05 PM  
genner: rohar: Nocens: Troops across Afghanistan sick of the shiat resign the next day...

Um, I'm not sure he opened an offer to these biggots to resign. It's not pretty when you're booted from the military.

So now you have a bunch of bigots with guns forced to cohabitate with gay men who also have guns. This will end well quietly.

FTFY
 
2010-12-02 01:20:55 PM  
good luck with alienating over half your military force, dumbass.

all so a few homosexuals can claim all kinds of new discrimination cases against you.

/you really through this cunning plan through, didnt you?


Pretty much THIS. He's pissing off the huge demographic that the military gets most of its recruits from in order to applease the ideologues currently running the administration. Why? Bag that extra star, General! The senior leadership are nothing but sellouts these days. Farking that PC Chicken in order to advance.

The security of the country? Fark that noise! That's for the next guy to deal with.....
 
2010-12-02 01:21:04 PM  
bodyshots: they dont want pedro checking them out?

they dont want pedro checking them out while in a combat situation?

/more than half those in active combat situations DONT want homosexuals serving with them.
//youll get over it.


Yes. Yes they will. Just like when the military was desegregated. They will whine and biatch like hell for a few years, sure, but they will work themselves out.
 
2010-12-02 01:21:10 PM  
Still don't understand Fark's love affair with the gays. Good luck with pissing off the majority in favor of the minority, this should end well.
img39.imageshack.us

/SNAFU
 
2010-12-02 01:21:24 PM  
I don't see why this guy's against it. He could finally do his reserve time openly!

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1977/lindsey.jpg
 
2010-12-02 01:21:30 PM  
"... what you do, not who you are."

It really is that simple.
 
2010-12-02 01:21:50 PM  
HoratioGates: According to the survey, 67 percent of Marines and nearly 58 percent of Army soldiers in combat units say repeal of don't ask, don't tell would have negative consequences on unit cohesion in the field or at sea.

Didn't this survey have the exact opposite numbers when it was reported by a non-Fox outlet?


Polls that asked what the soldier 'personally' felt were very positive toward repealing DADT, but when they ask if they thought that there might be problems overall the majority thought there would be. Why? Because everyone expects there to be a bunch of bigots that can't separate a person's non-military interests from the job.
 
2010-12-02 01:22:05 PM  
img404.imageshack.us
 
2010-12-02 01:22:10 PM  
Yes, and next all public toilets should be changed to unisex. Just imagine that at your nearest local school shower room. Hippo Critto....
 
2010-12-02 01:22:26 PM  
For every homophobe beating his chest and threatening to leave the service there are 5 other people on the military waiting list itching to get in. This is a non-event
 
2010-12-02 01:22:57 PM  
Kung_Fu_Hamster: DammitIForgotMyLogin: And good riddance

THIS

During Bush's last recruitment surge, a hell of a lot of trash managed to get enough waivers and have enough little things overlooked to join. In my last unit, we had 24 people pop on a drug test.

In less than a month.

We also had quite a few people go UA, including one genius who decided to run from CA to TX with a giant bag of esctasy pills and NCIS following him.

I would much rather have a gay Marine whoi can do his job and not f*ck everything than a straight sh*t bag who's going to do nothing but cause problems and f*ck up everything he touches.

Same goes for anyone who's too "uncomfortable" serving with a gay Marine. If you're too much of a Goddamned pussy to be able to do your job effectively because someone in your unit spends his off time doing something you don't like, then please STFU and GTFO so the unit can replace your worthless ass with someone possessing a spine.


This exactly correct. There isn't anything wrong with gay people serving. They can perform their civic duty just like anybody else. It also has the added benefit of desegregating the shower facilities which is way more than welcome. I have served with some pretty hot babes that I would have absolutely loved to have checked out all nakey.
 
2010-12-02 01:23:12 PM  
Dixie_Wrecked: I can't wait to see the new uniforms.

Not all gays are twinks, you know.
 
2010-12-02 01:23:14 PM  
mark12A: good luck with alienating over half your military force, dumbass.

all so a few homosexuals can claim all kinds of new discrimination cases against you.

/you really through this cunning plan through, didnt you?

Pretty much THIS. He's pissing off the huge demographic that the military gets most of its recruits from in order to applease the ideologues currently running the administration. Why? Bag that extra star, General! The senior leadership are nothing but sellouts these days. Farking that PC Chicken in order to advance.

The security of the country? Fark that noise! That's for the next guy to deal with.....


You mean just like when they were desegregated?
 
2010-12-02 01:23:38 PM  
bodyshots: what_now 2010-12-02 01:16:33 PM
bodyshots: good luck with alienating over half your military force, dumbass.

Allow me to repeat myself:

There is literally no way for anyone to be opposed to this without exposing themselves as an ignorant bigot. There are NO objections that this study doesn't overrule.

The interviewed thousands of soldiers. They don't give a fark, as long as the guy next to them shoots the bad guys.

you mean, all those soldiers NOT IN COMBAT?

the story is a lot different when you ask those in active combat zones you retard.


1) no it isn't
2) those not in combat can be called to combat at any time. Even the ones in the band
3) So. The. Fark. What?

I don't want to work with idiots, sadly, I'm not allowed to choose who I work with. Neither are they.
 
2010-12-02 01:23:50 PM  
mark12A: He's pissing off the huge demographic that the military gets most of its recruits from in order to applease the ideologues currently running the administration.

Nig applease.
 
2010-12-02 01:24:24 PM  
'"We treat each other with respect or we find another place to work. Period," he said.'

Why did it take this long to get this basic statement uttered by command?
 
2010-12-02 01:24:29 PM  
mark12A: The security of the country? Fark that noise!

In what way would this harm the security of the country? Because some marines will decide that they can't follow orders any more?

Newsflash... There's a big group of people who want to enlist and serve and haven't been able to. I'd bet that for every bigot that gives up his pension and takes a dishonorable discharge rather than serve alongside a homosexual, two gay people enlist.
In fact, opposing this would seem to be harming the security of the country. Who are you working for, the Taliban? Why do you hate America?
 
2010-12-02 01:24:40 PM  
what_now: You know, I was pretty damn pissed at Obama for dragging his feet on this.

But I'm starting to think he played this exactly right. There is literally no way for anyone to be opposed to this without exposing themselves as an ignorant bigot. There are NO objections that this study doesn't overrule.


People biatch about the study, but it's mostly criticisms of how ALL voluntary surveys turn out, they actually got a VERY high response rate, despite the biatching. You're farking magic or lying if you can get a more than 50% response rate with any significant number of people. More than 10% is a lot.
 
2010-12-02 01:25:06 PM  
bodyshots: good luck with alienating over half your military force, dumbass.

Half the military are assholes, who cares what happens to them. And it's not like the Dutch are set to invade as soon as our army gets ever so slightly smaller.
 
2010-12-02 01:25:13 PM  
Men don't want to live with gay men for the same reason women won't want to live with men. Sharing close quarters is inevitable and nobody seems to be addressing the argument that straight men should be afforded the same courtesy women are (separate quarters/showers/etc...)

The dems just don't get the whole issue either. They have the president and he's the commander in chief. If he were to simply state, "this is how it's going to be." The troops may not like it, but they'll respect it. He needs to lead, not build a consensus.

Having been in the military, I can say that from a performance point of view I'd rather have gay men than women.

/flame on
//not that there's anything wrong with that
 
2010-12-02 01:25:15 PM  
HoratioGates: According to the survey, 67 percent of Marines and nearly 58 percent of Army soldiers in combat units say repeal of don't ask, don't tell would have negative consequences on unit cohesion in the field or at sea.

Didn't this survey have the exact opposite numbers when it was reported by a non-Fox outlet?


That's the difference between combat units (which tend to be very heavily populated by white males of Southern persuasion) and the military as a whole (which tends to be more diverse).
 
2010-12-02 01:25:26 PM  
Major Tate: Sir, we're not prejudiced toward homosexuals.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: You just don't want to see them serving in the Armed Forces?
Major Tate: No sir, I don't.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: 'Cause they impose a threat to unit discipline and cohesion.
Major Tate: Yes, sir.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: That's what I think, too. I also think the military wasn't designed to be an instrument of social change.
Major Tate: Yes, sir.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: The problem with that is that's what they were saying about me 50 years ago - blacks shouldn't serve with whites. It would disrupt the unit. You know what? It did disrupt the unit. The unit got over it. The unit changed. I'm an admiral in the U.S. Navy and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff... Beat that with a stick.
 
2010-12-02 01:25:46 PM  
bodyshots: they dont want pedro checking them out?

they dont want pedro checking them out while in a combat situation?


i285.photobucket.com

/best i can do with Paint
 
2010-12-02 01:26:21 PM  
mark12A: good luck with alienating over half your military force, dumbass.

all so a few homosexuals can claim all kinds of new discrimination cases against you.

/you really through this cunning plan through, didnt you?

Pretty much THIS. He's pissing off the huge demographic that the military gets most of its recruits from in order to applease the ideologues currently running the administration. Why? Bag that extra star, General! The senior leadership are nothing but sellouts these days. Farking that PC Chicken in order to advance.

The security of the country? Fark that noise! That's for the next guy to deal with.....


Stop speaking the truth please. It makes us all uncomfortable.
 
2010-12-02 01:26:31 PM  
reelpirate: Yes, and next all public toilets should be changed to unisex. Just imagine that at your nearest local school shower room. Hippo Critto....

Uh, why would that be a problem? Are you currently inviting people to join you on the toilet, secure in the fact that both of you in that stall are 100% heterosexual?

/one of you has to have a wide stance, or you both won't fit
 
2010-12-02 01:26:41 PM  
what_now: The interviewed thousands of soldiers. They don't give a fark, as long as the guy next to them shoots the bad guys.

My favorite was the quote in a CNN article from a Special Forces soldier. Something along the lines of "Yeah, we have a gay guy in our unit. He's big, he's mean, he kills lots of bad guys... so who cares?"


/sounds about right to me

 
2010-12-02 01:27:00 PM  
Sounds fair to me. I don't trust someone with a gun if they are afraid of catching teh gay. You could go to see terrible things, human beings burned alive, listening to the wailing of agony from war injuries. Children with limbs blown off, watching your friends die and you can't do anything about it. But teh gay scares you more? Please.
 
2010-12-02 01:27:34 PM  
rohar: genner: rohar: Nocens: Troops across Afghanistan sick of the shiat resign the next day...

Um, I'm not sure he opened an offer to these biggots to resign. It's not pretty when you're booted from the military.

So now you have a bunch of bigots with guns forced to cohabitate with gay men. This will end well.

They've been cohabiting with gay men AND women for decades. I'm guessing the same percentage of Doughboys in WWI were gay as the troops we have in theater now. They'll get over it.


If your whole argument is based on the idea that poorly educated red state bigots will magically accept homosexuals you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Things have only worked out so far because the military has kept up the illusion that every solider is the same. You shatter that illusion and there will be consequences.
 
2010-12-02 01:27:40 PM  
The only people who are bothered by the repeal of DADT are right-wing freaks; the soldiers are extremely proficient and are capable filtering out these types of minor distractions quite easily.
 
2010-12-02 01:28:34 PM  
what_now: Major Tate: Sir, we're not prejudiced toward homosexuals.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: You just don't want to see them serving in the Armed Forces?
Major Tate: No sir, I don't.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: 'Cause they impose a threat to unit discipline and cohesion.
Major Tate: Yes, sir.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: That's what I think, too. I also think the military wasn't designed to be an instrument of social change.
Major Tate: Yes, sir.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: The problem with that is that's what they were saying about me 50 years ago - blacks shouldn't serve with whites. It would disrupt the unit. You know what? It did disrupt the unit. The unit got over it. The unit changed. I'm an admiral in the U.S. Navy and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff... Beat that with a stick.


Being black isn't defined by your behavior. Being a homosexual is.

Next!

Either let them serve openly, or don't let them serve at all.
 
2010-12-02 01:28:35 PM  
reelpirate: Yes, and next all public toilets should be changed to unisex. Just imagine that at your nearest local school shower room. Hippo Critto....

-shrug-

I got over that in Europe when I was a kid. Unisex bathrooms all over the place there. Not in school, that I remember, but it wasn't seen as the big deal Americans make it out to be.
 
2010-12-02 01:28:41 PM  
Tech N9ne: Still don't understand Fark's love affair with the gays. Good luck with pissing off the majority in favor of the minority, this should end well.


/SNAFU


I'm skeptical that he's in the military. Don't they have weight and hair length standards?
 
2010-12-02 01:29:19 PM  
genner: If your whole argument is based on the idea that poorly educated red state bigots will magically accept homosexuals BLACKS you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Things have only worked out so far because the military has kept up the illusion that every solider is the same. You shatter that illusion and there will be consequences.

/if fark were around 70 years ago, this would be your post
 
2010-12-02 01:29:24 PM  
mark12A: The security of the country? Fark that noise! That's for the next guy to deal with.....

Wow. It must to be tough to live your life while being that scared.

This country's security wouldn't be put at risk if we cut our military in half, let alone saw a handful of ignorant rednecks leave the service.
 
2010-12-02 01:30:11 PM  
Where did I put the popcorn?
 
2010-12-02 01:30:15 PM  
MadTheologian: "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight." -Barry Goldwater

Anyone can do that. Curving a shot is impossible.
 
2010-12-02 01:30:25 PM  
For the record, does the military even bother asking soldiers' opinions on anything else?

"Do you feel comfortable doing sit-ups? Would that 'disrupt' you?"

Isn't the point of serving under military command that you shut up and do what you're told? Does your commanding officer value your opinion on much of anything else?
 
2010-12-02 01:30:56 PM  
dittybopper: Being black isn't defined by your behavior. Being a homosexual is.

Next!



What does that have to do with anything?
 
2010-12-02 01:31:08 PM  
Fair and balanced!
 
2010-12-02 01:31:18 PM  
He's missing the bigger picture here.

"back in the day", saying you were gay was a quick ticket out of service. now it's "I don't like gays".

A lot of deployment weary soldiers are going to see this as a way of cutting their enlistments short.
 
2010-12-02 01:31:24 PM  
In the meantime, mothers in Iraq and Afghanistan are scrambling to find safe hiding places for their little boys.
 
2010-12-02 01:31:51 PM  
I used to be a homophobe until I had a boss that was gay. He was probably one of the best bosses I've ever had. So if I can learn to be tolerant and get along with someone who is gay, there is no reason that the military can't.

And having been in the military, if you have rounds coming downrange, you aren't going to give a fark about if your fire team has anyone gay or not.
 
2010-12-02 01:32:00 PM  
This is long overdue. Bravo, Adm Mullen.

[CSB]
As a commander, I really got tired of having to kick out good troops because of who they're sleeping with. What's worse are the folks who just used it as an excuse to get kicked out (after getting a TS clearance and a 3/3 DLPT), then send you a (hetero)wedding invitation less than six months after they outprocess. One Lt tried to commit suicide because he couldn't take living a lie anymore.
[/CSB]

None of my peers or the cadets I've had discussions with have a problem with serving with gays. It may not be a lifestyle you personally agree with, but in the end, we have a professional force. If you can't act in a professional manner, you can GTFO. There are plenty of other ways to discriminate against your fellow man that are summarily overlooked in the military, in favor of actually doing your job. This will soon be just another example.

I'm sure the same arguments could have been used over three decades ago about expanding the role of women in the military.

I'm sure the same arguments could have been used over six decades ago about racial integration in the military.

Seems to me both of those turned out just fine.

/$.02
 
2010-12-02 01:32:10 PM  
ShillinTheVillain: The survey is misleading. It wasn't asked "Do YOU have a problem with it," it was "Do you think it will have a negative impact on unit morale?"

A lot of people I talked to say "I'm cool with it, but I'm sure there will be troublemakers", which gives a deceiving result. I think the large majority are cool with it, but everybody recognizes that there will probably be some issues, so they all answer that it will have a negative effect even if they don't personally have a problem with it.


Yeah, exactly. In a group of 100, if there's one guy that everyone knows will have a problem, 99 people are going to say, "some service members will have a problem with this", and they're all thinking about the same one guy (but not in a gay way). That tends to exaggerate one person's effect considerably. It's not a useless question-- it gives a gauge of whether the service at large anticipates problems-- but it doesn't usefully determine the extent of those problems.

mtylerjr: Are there any more rational objections to gender segregated showers now, in the military?

They're more critical than ever. I assume that the gay men will shower with the straight women and the lesbians will shower with the straight men.
 
2010-12-02 01:32:11 PM  
what_now: mark12A: The security of the country? Fark that noise! That's for the next guy to deal with.....

Wow. It must to be tough to live your life while being that scared.

This country's security wouldn't be put at risk if we cut our military in half, let alone saw a handful of ignorant rednecks leave the service.


www.armscontrolcenter.org
Oh, noes! A few marines might quit!
 
2010-12-02 01:32:24 PM  
Isn't it against the Geneva convention to field homosexual soldiers?

I mean, think of the cruelty of knowing that your jaw had just been blown off by a sniper may have been checking out your goods before squeezing the trigger... the uncertainty would be agony.
 
2010-12-02 01:33:14 PM  
Of course it was a Navy guy who has no problem with gays.
 
2010-12-02 01:33:26 PM  
bonehead800: what_now: The interviewed thousands of soldiers. They don't give a fark, as long as the guy next to them shoots the bad guys.

My favorite was the quote in a CNN article from a Special Forces soldier. Something along the lines of "Yeah, we have a gay guy in our unit. He's big, he's mean, he kills lots of bad guys... so who cares?"

/sounds about right to me


Funny part of it is, there have always been gays in the military, and we all knew and mostly didn't care. I can think of two incidents during my service where gays caused a problem related to their predilections, honestly I don't think it was materially different than the problems caused by horny straights.
 
2010-12-02 01:33:29 PM  
Kung_Fu_Hamster: DammitIForgotMyLogin: And good riddance

THIS

During Bush's last recruitment surge, a hell of a lot of trash managed to get enough waivers and have enough little things overlooked to join. In my last unit, we had 24 people pop on a drug test.

In less than a month.

We also had quite a few people go UA, including one genius who decided to run from CA to TX with a giant bag of esctasy pills and NCIS following him.

I would much rather have a gay Marine who can do his job and not f*ck everything than a straight sh*t bag who's going to do nothing but cause problems and f*ck up everything he touches.

Same goes for anyone who's too "uncomfortable" serving with a gay Marine. If you're too much of a Goddamned pussy to be able to do your job effectively because someone in your unit spends his off time doing something you don't like, then please STFU and GTFO so the unit can replace your worthless ass with someone possessing a spine.


TH7S

/My 'this' salutes you for your service.
//It would also like a subscription to your newsletter.
 
2010-12-02 01:33:43 PM  
As a former Marine, getting a kick, etc etc.

I personally have no problem with it -- in fact, I welcome it. As was stated earlier in the thread, I'd rather have someone who wants to serve, regardless of sexual orientation, working alongside me than someone who begrudgingly took an enlistment as a criminal diversion program just looking to avoid some jail time.

The sentiment from everyone against this seems to be that if you work next to a homo you're gonna catch the gay yourself. Its not the farking flu. Two dudes in the middle of a firefight in Kabul aren't going to suddenly decide to hump each other in the back of a humvee instead of fighting back.

Let's all grow up and let the military members act like the professionals they're supposed to be. Besides - they aren't going to have a choice when they get out of the military and potentially have to work side by side with anyone from any sexual orientation. Better get used to it now.
 
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