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(The New York Times)   For five months, starting today, when you call an ambulance in Manhattan a second one will be sent out. Waiting, ominously hidden in the shadows, to harvest your organs   (nytimes.com) divider line 112
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9973 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Dec 2010 at 5:08 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-12-01 08:45:38 AM
drjekel_mrhyde, way to miss the point.
 
2010-12-01 08:46:25 AM
What could possibly go wrong?

/hey guys, you might wanna hang back a bit, we're running low on kidneys
 
2010-12-01 08:49:27 AM
bobbette: hitchking: This bothers me, but only because I have a paranoid and totally groundless belief that paramedics will let their patient die (and open themselves to serious ethical, professional, and legal consequences). Which is based on a stupid thought experiment I just did.

I like the workaround they have for this - the paramedics don't know the ambulating kidney harvesters are lurking until resuscitation efforts have already failed.


Except, you know, this was published on the internet, with "Manhattan" in the article.
 
2010-12-01 08:52:25 AM
I understand they say this this is after the first ambulance fails to resuscitate, but here's my question:

do the efforts to save someone stop there? I thought even if they fail they take someone to an ER to continue attempts.

Does an ambulance have the same capabilities to resuscitate as a hospital ER does? I assumed the answer to this was always no.
 
2010-12-01 08:53:29 AM
Hmmmm. I wonder what subby was trying to say with this headline? Amazing how conspiracy theorists can turn anything into some sort of perverted claim.

Clicks link.

HOLY FARK, THEY'RE SERIOUS!

\Of course they're serious.
\\And don't call me "Holy Fark."
 
2010-12-01 08:55:14 AM
No Such Agency: If I'm dead, holy christ yes, use my organs. I don't need them, and I live a clean life so they should be pink and healthy. And the likelihood of doctors letting me die to get those organs is about the same as being struck by a toilet seat falling from space. "The X-Files" was fiction.

No, no. That was "Dead Like Me".
 
2010-12-01 08:55:22 AM
MythDragon: Do they have bathtubs full of ice?

I've always wondered about the "bathtub full of ice" bit. If they're stealing your kidneys, chances are they're just gonna leave you to bleed to death or kill you. Why would they bother with ice?
 
2010-12-01 08:55:36 AM
honk: bobbette: I like the workaround they have for this - the paramedics don't know the ambulating kidney harvesters are lurking until resuscitation efforts have already failed.

. . . which will become less and less effective if the procedure becomes widespread.

So, to toss out a somewhat trollish question, why not compel inmates on death row to donate their organs? Their choice to live has already been taken away (presumably with sufficient justification, or they shouldn't be there) for the good of society, so why not the organ disposal for the same good of society?


Conflict of interest issues would cast extra doubt on the justice involved. They'd probably have to find another way to kill them; I doubt current methods leave organs usable, and I'm not sure how many organ conserving ways would meet the not cruel & unusual standard - it's very hard for states to change their methods and meet court requirements. Also, most probably have a less than usual number of usable organs. They don't have a motivation to care for themselves, many probably have drug/disease issues (from past jail terms if nothing else), are not going to be in good shape, etc. Add to that the major creep out factor it'd give a lot of people who watch too much sci-fi.
 
2010-12-01 08:57:29 AM
Oh, Jebus, people!!! Educate yourself about organ donation! If you dont want to donate your organs, DONT!! Your family will decide when you die, anyway....regardless of what your DL says. But the criteria for donating is very, very strict. But, let me be clear on this point.... WE DONT LET YOU DIE CAUSE WE WANT YOUR SORRY-ASSED LIVER!

//yes, I work in a major trauma unit
///we donate a LOT of organs
///thanks dumbasses that dont wear helmets
 
2010-12-01 09:02:08 AM
GrandDamnDeeDee: Oh, Jebus, people!!! Educate yourself about organ donation! If you dont want to donate your organs, DONT!! Your family will decide when you die, anyway....regardless of what your DL says. But the criteria for donating is very, very strict. But, let me be clear on this point.... WE DONT LET YOU DIE CAUSE WE WANT YOUR SORRY-ASSED LIVER!

//yes, I work in a major trauma unit
///we donate a LOT of organs
///thanks dumbasses that dont wear helmets


Just curious, how well would it work if someone didn't check the driver's license box because they were paranoid, but all their family knew to say okay when asked after it was too late for them? Would they still do what they could to preserve parts while asking or is that delay just too much for a lot of it (or they might not ask?)?

I don't really think anyone would let me die because of the symbol on my license, but it is a thought, if you were scared...
 
2010-12-01 09:07:10 AM
The organ team, which will travel in a bright red and white ambulance marked "Organ Preservation Unit," is supposed to remain out of sight. (from TFA)

OK- does it hide behind a mailbox? I would notice that shiat! A bright red kidney wagon is NOT subtle!
 
2010-12-01 09:10:38 AM
ErinPac: GrandDamnDeeDee: Oh, Jebus, people!!! Educate yourself about organ donation! If you dont want to donate your organs, DONT!! Your family will decide when you die, anyway....regardless of what your DL says. But the criteria for donating is very, very strict. But, let me be clear on this point.... WE DONT LET YOU DIE CAUSE WE WANT YOUR SORRY-ASSED LIVER!

//yes, I work in a major trauma unit
///we donate a LOT of organs
///thanks dumbasses that dont wear helmets

Just curious, how well would it work if someone didn't check the driver's license box because they were paranoid, but all their family knew to say okay when asked after it was too late for them? Would they still do what they could to preserve parts while asking or is that delay just too much for a lot of it (or they might not ask?)?

I don't really think anyone would let me die because of the symbol on my license, but it is a thought, if you were scared...


The organ donation team doesnt even talk to the family until after the doc has declared the patient brain dead. At that point, you are legally dead. We do call them when we think this is inevitable. More of a 'heads up', really. When we say you are dead, they are there to talk to the family about donation. The truth is, we dont give a rats ass about your DL. Donation team may mention it to your loved ones...as in 'this is what he/she wanted', but it is not legally binding in any way.

Sad part is, we cant use your DL designation because dead people dont sue...survivors do. Lawyers suck...til you need one.
 
2010-12-01 09:18:37 AM
ERINPAC, may not have really answered your question (rant from me). We do everything possible to save you, sometimes too much, IMHO. When the doc says dead, we will keep everything going until the family makes the decision to donate/not. But the patient is dead at that point. No donation....when do we turn this shiat off? Who has to be here? But it is going to be soon. Donate? The bill stops as of that time, lets all come say goodbye, and we're done here. We dont turn anything off until we know donor status. But, we are now dealing with a 'heart-beating cadaver'.
 
2010-12-01 09:19:37 AM
Now, this couldn't possibly lead to abuses of any kind. No sir, no way.
 
2010-12-01 09:24:17 AM
Skail: hypocaffeinemia: RNs (and MDs, and so on) aren't immune to being full of paranoid, misinformed personalities. A good 1/3 the staff of my SICU initially refused this year's flu vaccine because they "didn't want to get sick from it". These are otherwise intelligent people, many of whom are board-certified(CCRN).

I tend to be in their camp, though for a different reason. The way the flu vaccines are generated is little more than a crapshoot - the guessing of the capsid proteins means that the chance of them getting the right combination and therefore creating a truly effective vaccine isn't that high, so though I don't avoid flu vaccinations due to "getting sick from it," I do try to avoid them due to "it probably being useless, anyway." Case in point, I was vaccinated this year over a month ago, along with everyone I work with, and now have the flu that's going around. That we all seem to be getting.


I fully realize that the prevailing medical 'truth' is that it is not possible to get sick from the flu shot. However, completely anecdotal personal experience, the only two times I have gotten the flu shot are also the only two times I've gotten the flu as an adult. Coincidence? Very likely. However, I'm not looking to make it three for three. I bet that sometime in the future we find out that perhaps the prevaling 'truth' isn't entirely...true.
 
2010-12-01 09:29:33 AM
This is why I simply have a DNR ...
 
2010-12-01 09:30:37 AM
No Such Agency: "The X-Files" was fiction.

YOU BLASPHEMER!!!!!

/weeps
 
2010-12-01 09:31:08 AM
i166.photobucket.com

Can't be far behind.
 
2010-12-01 09:31:20 AM
hypocaffeinemia: Huggermugger: Little_Dictator: I stated in a previous organ donor related thread that I wasn't an organ donor because I didn't want to risk the chance of medical professionals not doing everything they can to save me because they knew they could harvest me for valuable organs. I stand by that.

I used to think that organ donation was a wonderful thing, and that everyone should be a donor. Then I had a conversation with a relative who is adamantly against it, and now I wonder. She was an RN who worked for 15 years in the internal medicine department of one of the biggest hospitals in the Mid-Atlantic region, and then she went to law school and became a lawyer. If someone with that much knowledge and training is very leery about what sort of medical care a potential donor might, or might not, get, then I tend to be leery of it too.

RNs (and MDs, and so on) aren't immune to being full of paranoid, misinformed personalities. A good 1/3 the staff of my SICU initially refused this year's flu vaccine because they "didn't want to get sick from it". These are otherwise intelligent people, many of whom are board-certified(CCRN).

If one person with that much knowledge and training being leery of organ donation can sway you so easily, perhaps you should consider the viewpoints of the millions of others with equivalent or exceeding amounts of knowledge or training who do support it.


/SICU RN


Yes, as a PICU RN, I can attest to this. One of my colleagues constantly- and I mean, you know. In between patients and everything. Checks the Drudge Report to find out if Obama's been exposed as a Kenyan yet. Oddly enough, she's for single-payer health care, but when you see as many cases as we do where all of us foot the bill for farkwits who will never pay, who ignore their kids, your views tend to skew on that.
 
2010-12-01 09:34:47 AM
It doesn't sound like the donor signup means much at all then - almost pointless. (unless you have family that disagrees with you AND their opinion is extremely easy to sway)

I wonder if they wouldn't get more to agree with some other sort of way to let your family know (similar to living wills/ DNRs) rather than a visible label in your wallet.
I don't hear many say they don't want to give - but some do say they are scared someone will give up on them early. Perhaps if it were easier to record their choice away somewhere not visible to the world in their wallet...
 
2010-12-01 09:35:08 AM
amaranthe: Skail: hypocaffeinemia: RNs (and MDs, and so on) aren't immune to being full of paranoid, misinformed personalities. A good 1/3 the staff of my SICU initially refused this year's flu vaccine because they "didn't want to get sick from it". These are otherwise intelligent people, many of whom are board-certified(CCRN).

I tend to be in their camp, though for a different reason. The way the flu vaccines are generated is little more than a crapshoot - the guessing of the capsid proteins means that the chance of them getting the right combination and therefore creating a truly effective vaccine isn't that high, so though I don't avoid flu vaccinations due to "getting sick from it," I do try to avoid them due to "it probably being useless, anyway." Case in point, I was vaccinated this year over a month ago, along with everyone I work with, and now have the flu that's going around. That we all seem to be getting.

I fully realize that the prevailing medical 'truth' is that it is not possible to get sick from the flu shot. However, completely anecdotal personal experience, the only two times I have gotten the flu shot are also the only two times I've gotten the flu as an adult. Coincidence? Very likely. However, I'm not looking to make it three for three. I bet that sometime in the future we find out that perhaps the prevaling 'truth' isn't entirely...true.


Probably just an issue with your caloric fluid.
 
2010-12-01 09:36:52 AM
Weidbrewer: Can't be far behind.

Came to post this, leaving slightly worried.
 
2010-12-01 09:38:07 AM
Cromar: Huggermugger: I used to think that organ donation was a wonderful thing, and that everyone should be a donor. Then I had a conversation with a relative who is adamantly against it, and now I wonder. She was an RN who worked for 15 years in the internal medicine department of one of the biggest hospitals in the Mid-Atlantic region, and then she went to law school and became a lawyer. If someone with that much knowledge and training is very leery about what sort of medical care a potential donor might, or might not, get, then I tend to be leery of it too.

This is pretty much the reason why an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Did your relative explain why she is against it? Would you care to share?


She said that she was concerned that the quality and level of care that would be given to someone might be affected by whether or not they were being evaluated as a potential organ donor. I was shocked that she believed this. She is not a stupid person by any means, and is not prone to paranoid or conspiratorial beliefs. Since I was working at the time on a study that tracked children who received donated organs, and thus subscribed fully to the concept of donation, this was unsettling.

/now I work with people who track flu vaccines, so there's a whole new set of questions
 
2010-12-01 09:38:07 AM
seadoo2006: This is why I simply have a DNR ...

If you are in a traumatic event... car wreck/gunshot/etc...you will be treated at the scene. Intubated, pressors, whatever. You will already be 'in the system' when we get your DNR paperwork. Still, family makes the decision, usually guided by the doc-in-charge. A 911 call implies consent for medical treatment.

//also a DNR!
 
2010-12-01 09:42:32 AM
tedbundee: MythDragon: Do they have bathtubs full of ice?

I've always wondered about the "bathtub full of ice" bit. If they're stealing your kidneys, chances are they're just gonna leave you to bleed to death or kill you. Why would they bother with ice?


Probably because theft of personal property is a less severe charge than murder? Though I have never heard of the taking place outside of urban ledgend.
 
2010-12-01 09:45:21 AM
ragekage: hypocaffeinemia: Huggermugger: Little_Dictator: I stated in a previous organ donor related thread that I wasn't an organ donor because I didn't want to risk the chance of medical professionals not doing everything they can to save me because they knew they could harvest me for valuable organs. I stand by that.

I used to think that organ donation was a wonderful thing, and that everyone should be a donor. Then I had a conversation with a relative who is adamantly against it, and now I wonder. She was an RN who worked for 15 years in the internal medicine department of one of the biggest hospitals in the Mid-Atlantic region, and then she went to law school and became a lawyer. If someone with that much knowledge and training is very leery about what sort of medical care a potential donor might, or might not, get, then I tend to be leery of it too.

RNs (and MDs, and so on) aren't immune to being full of paranoid, misinformed personalities. A good 1/3 the staff of my SICU initially refused this year's flu vaccine because they "didn't want to get sick from it". These are otherwise intelligent people, many of whom are board-certified(CCRN).

If one person with that much knowledge and training being leery of organ donation can sway you so easily, perhaps you should consider the viewpoints of the millions of others with equivalent or exceeding amounts of knowledge or training who do support it.


/SICU RN

Yes, as a PICU RN, I can attest to this. One of my colleagues constantly- and I mean, you know. In between patients and everything. Checks the Drudge Report to find out if Obama's been exposed as a Kenyan yet. Oddly enough, she's for single-payer health care, but when you see as many cases as we do where all of us foot the bill for farkwits who will never pay, who ignore their kids, your views tend to skew on that.


Hats off to you, sir/madam. Dont/wont do kids. Mostly, cant, truth be told. My hospital donates way too many kid organs. So many people shouldnt breed. Take care of yourself.
 
2010-12-01 09:46:30 AM
GrandDamnDeeDee: seadoo2006: This is why I simply have a DNR ...

If you are in a traumatic event... car wreck/gunshot/etc...you will be treated at the scene. Intubated, pressors, whatever. You will already be 'in the system' when we get your DNR paperwork. Still, family makes the decision, usually guided by the doc-in-charge. A 911 call implies consent for medical treatment.

//also a DNR!


MORBO: 911 does not work like that!

That's not true, at all. If you are conscious and refusing care, EMS and Fire should not (and cannot) do any treatment to you until you go unconscious, then implied consent does kick in. In the event of a non-violent cardiac arrest, in the presence of a lawful DNR, the crew isn't going to do anything - except watch you go to the great beyond and provide supportive care. Simply calling 911 does not give ANYONE permission to treat you.

Your family CAN override the DNR, however, and in most states it has to be handed physically to the Paramedic in charge of the scene for it to be followed - not just a power of attourney, and your family can override it, too.

Little_Dictator: I stated in a previous organ donor related thread that I wasn't an organ donor because I didn't want to risk the chance of medical professionals not doing everything they can to save me because they knew they could harvest me for valuable organs. I stand by that.

As a medical professional, I have to say you're a dumbass. And yes, that's my clinical opinion of you. I say this because you've bought into urban hype and fiction, without doing any critical research

ICU Docs and ED Docs don't just let organ donors die. If you're an organ donor, you're going to get a LOT Of care beyond that which would be given to you otherwise, because it's a very complicated and time-intensive process to maintain the body after brain death.

In addition, in the United States, the Doctors involved in your care DO NOT make the decision to proceed with donation, and in some states, cannot do anything more than make a referral to the organ donor team. In the event that someone may be an organ donor, a seperate organiazation representing the donor registry comes in and does everything from tests to care plans, and only after getting family consent.
 
2010-12-01 09:57:58 AM
hardinparamedic: GrandDamnDeeDee: seadoo2006: This is why I simply have a DNR ...

If you are in a traumatic event... car wreck/gunshot/etc...you will be treated at the scene. Intubated, pressors, whatever. You will already be 'in the system' when we get your DNR paperwork. Still, family makes the decision, usually guided by the doc-in-charge. A 911 call implies consent for medical treatment.

//also a DNR!

MORBO: 911 does not work like that!

That's not true, at all. If you are conscious and refusing care, EMS and Fire should not (and cannot) do any treatment to you until you go unconscious, then implied consent does kick in. In the event of a non-violent cardiac arrest, in the presence of a lawful DNR, the crew isn't going to do anything - except watch you go to the great beyond and provide supportive care. Simply calling 911 does not give ANYONE permission to treat you.

Your family CAN override the DNR, however, and in most states it has to be handed physically to the Paramedic in charge of the scene for it to be followed - not just a power of attourney, and your family can override it, too.

Little_Dictator: I stated in a previous organ donor related thread that I wasn't an organ donor because I didn't want to risk the chance of medical professionals not doing everything they can to save me because they knew they could harvest me for valuable organs. I stand by that.

As a medical professional, I have to say you're a dumbass. And yes, that's my clinical opinion of you. I say this because you've bought into urban hype and fiction, without doing any critical research

ICU Docs and ED Docs don't just let organ donors die. If you're an organ donor, you're going to get a LOT Of care beyond that which would be given to you otherwise, because it's a very complicated and time-intensive process to maintain the body after brain death.

In addition, in the United States, the Doctors involved in your care DO NOT make the decision to proceed with donation, and in some states, cannot do anything more than make a referral to the organ donor team. In the event that someone may be an organ donor, a seperate organiazation representing the donor registry comes in and does everything from tests to care plans, and only after getting family consent.


Whoa, dude! I guess I was assuming that the average amurikan was driving to WalMart and got into an MVC. Most folks dont carry their DNR papers. And if you have an MI, and call 911--yep, you gonna get treated. Otherwise, lay there and die, and stay off the phone. I am not a paramedic, but I know they cannot make decisions on extent of care at the scene. As a nurse, neither can I. Only doctors can decide when to say stop. That is pretty much the law everywhere.

But, I agree with you about UNOS. They are awesome!
 
2010-12-01 10:00:50 AM
MythDragon: tedbundee: MythDragon: Do they have bathtubs full of ice?

I've always wondered about the "bathtub full of ice" bit. If they're stealing your kidneys, chances are they're just gonna leave you to bleed to death or kill you. Why would they bother with ice?

Probably because theft of personal property is a less severe charge than murder? Though I have never heard of the taking place outside of urban legend.


It's no legend. I once woke up in a bathtub full of ice with firemen standing over me - they informed me that criminals had tried to steal my penis. It was too big for them to carry, though, so they had put me in the ice-filled tub in an attempt to shrink it. Thank god the apartment building caught fire at that very moment and they left before they could finish the job.
 
2010-12-01 10:07:41 AM
Grass HopperAnyway,

Now an EMT is going to determine wether to save you or harvest you. Hope he's not getting kickbacks.

Sorry to all EMTs out there, I know you do terrific work, but every profession has it's bad apples.


RTFA
 
2010-12-01 10:16:33 AM
profile.ak.fbcdn.net

This is why I am not an organ donor.
I want the medics to do every damn thing you can to save me (unless I am a brain dead, then DNR). I don't want some doctor going "Well this guy got shot...looks pretty bad...I could fix this, but I would probably be in surgery for 6 or 7 hours and I got to get up and hit the links in the morning...on the other hand, there is this cute little kid in room 207 that could really use this guy's gallbladder..."
 
2010-12-01 10:22:02 AM
SuperDarly: Weidbrewer: Can't be far behind.

Came to post this, leaving slightly worried.


Frankly, I was surprised it hadn't been posted yet. I mean, I realize it wasn't that good of a movie and all, but since when has that stopped us?
 
2010-12-01 10:23:05 AM
MythDragon: This is why I am not an organ donor.
I want the medics to do every damn thing you can to save me (unless I am a brain dead, then DNR). I don't want some doctor going "Well this guy got shot...looks pretty bad...I could fix this, but I would probably be in surgery for 6 or 7 hours and I got to get up and hit the links in the morning...on the other hand, there is this cute little kid in room 207 that could really use this guy's gallbladder..."


JUST DOESNT HAPPEN. EVARH!

b>JUST DOESNT HAPPEN ever actually been to a hospital? Medics DO NOT make that decision!
 
2010-12-01 10:23:27 AM
hardinparamedic: As a medical professional, I have to say you're a dumbass. And yes, that's my clinical opinion of you. I say this because you've bought into urban hype and fiction, without doing any critical research

Is "Zack Dunlap" a myth?
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23775873/ns/today-today_people/
On a hunch, Dan pulled out his bone-handled pocket knife and ran the blade up the sole of one of Zack's feet. The foot yanked away, but the other nurse said it was a reflex action.
 
2010-12-01 10:28:46 AM
the ha ha guy: Is "Zack Dunlap" a myth?http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23775873/ns/today-today_people/On a hunch, Dan pulled out his bone-handled pocket knife and ran the blade up the sole of one of Zack's feet. The foot yanked away, but the other nurse said it was a reflex action.

LOL. Did you even read that article? Not only does it not really substantiate your claim -- there's nothing to indicate that the doctor prematurely declared him dead to get his organs -- but the only reason that he actually lived through that was because his family agreed to donate so his body was kept alive!
 
2010-12-01 10:35:03 AM
PghThermal: Grass HopperAnyway,

Now an EMT is going to determine wether to save you or harvest you. Hope he's not getting kickbacks.

Sorry to all EMTs out there, I know you do terrific work, but every profession has it's bad apples.


RTFA


I did read the article. Ambulance comes, tries to rescuscitate you - you die. Ghoulmobile comes, starts working on your organs.

In which of these vehicles is the doctor riding? The ambulance? The Combine Harvester? Or is the doctor making this diagnosis from the hospital over the internet?

The article says they will be waiting in the wings while the "doctor or paramedics" try to rescuscitate you. In practice, there will never be a doctor on scene unless they have taken to riding around in ambulances or one happens to be your next door neighbour.

So, explain to me where the doctor comes into this, or you RTFA again.
 
2010-12-01 10:38:17 AM
Grass Hopper: The article says they will be waiting in the wings while the "doctor or paramedics" try to rescuscitate you. In practice, there will never be a doctor on scene unless they have taken to riding around in ambulances or one happens to be your next door neighbour.

Well, what happens now? Probably the same thing will continue to happen. At least my understanding is that people are declared dead at the scene fairly regularly already.
 
2010-12-01 10:45:43 AM
Callous: bobbette: ambulating kidney harvesters

That's an awfully clunky name. They need something that sounds cool like Vidiians.


Organleggers.
 
2010-12-01 10:48:57 AM
MythDragon: This is why I am not an organ donor.
I want the medics to do every damn thing you can to save me (unless I am a brain dead, then DNR). I don't want some doctor going "Well this guy got shot...looks pretty bad...I could fix this, but I would probably be in surgery for 6 or 7 hours and I got to get up and hit the links in the morning...on the other hand, there is this cute little kid in room 207 that could really use this guy's gallbladder..."


So what happens when the thing that could save you involves receiving a transplanted organ? Do you believe in it then?

I'm all for people opting out of donating organs, so long as there's the understanding that they're not going to receive one, either. I also believe that organ donation (or, in this case, opting out of organ donation) should be a contract between the individual and the government, enforceable regardless of other family members' wishes.
 
2010-12-01 10:59:17 AM
Aqua Buddha:
It's no legend. I once woke up in a bathtub full of ice with firemen standing over me - they informed me that criminals had tried to steal my penis. It was too big for them to carry, though, so they had put me in the ice-filled tub in an attempt to shrink it. Thank god the apartment building caught fire at that very moment and they left before they could finish the job.

I feel like I just took the brown acid.
 
2010-12-01 11:03:46 AM
Buncha babies.
Parts is parts.
Link (new window)
 
2010-12-01 11:04:41 AM
evaned: Grass Hopper: The article says they will be waiting in the wings while the "doctor or paramedics" try to rescuscitate you. In practice, there will never be a doctor on scene unless they have taken to riding around in ambulances or one happens to be your next door neighbour.

Well, what happens now? Probably the same thing will continue to happen. At least my understanding is that people are declared dead at the scene fairly regularly already.


Yes, but they don't start on your organs until a Doctor has signed off - hence the delay in getting you to the hospital which is what this is about.

Now, no doctor, no delay. Or that's how I read that article. If people can show me another way to read that, I will happily back off.
 
2010-12-01 11:28:09 AM
Whoa there, boys and ghouls. Does the Kidneymobile actually cut the organs out of your body at the scene (NO - not sterile) or do they keep your blood and O2 circulating so they will still be in good enough shape at the hospital? If it is the latter, why is the regular crew not capable of doing the same thing?

Also, I thought in NY a MD had to declare you dead, unless it was obvious, such as your head was no longer connected to your body?

Also also, the Donormobile will be waiting out of sight, just around the corner from the victim's home. Where a slightly senile old guy will look out of the window and see the vultures hovering directly in front of his place, and promptly keel over and die of a heart attack.
 
2010-12-01 11:34:41 AM
*Larry Niven nods knowingly.*
 
2010-12-01 11:45:13 AM
No Monty Python meaning of life references yet?
 
2010-12-01 11:49:47 AM
The way some of you worry, you'd think the first thing an EMT does on scene is open your wallet and check for a donor card.

I'm pretty sure they try to save your life, THEN check.
 
2010-12-01 12:44:06 PM
Gives a whole new spin to the term "creepers"!
 
2010-12-01 12:46:54 PM
tedbundee: MythDragon: Do they have bathtubs full of ice?

I've always wondered about the "bathtub full of ice" bit. If they're stealing your kidneys, chances are they're just gonna leave you to bleed to death or kill you. Why would they bother with ice?


Maybe because being convicted of murder would bring a worse criminal sentence.....That's the only reason I can think of. Not thinking kidney stealers would worry too much on a moral level.
 
2010-12-01 01:03:39 PM
Carousel Beast: amaranthe: Skail: hypocaffeinemia: RNs (and MDs, and so on) aren't immune to being full of paranoid, misinformed personalities. A good 1/3 the staff of my SICU initially refused this year's flu vaccine because they "didn't want to get sick from it". These are otherwise intelligent people, many of whom are board-certified(CCRN).

I tend to be in their camp, though for a different reason. The way the flu vaccines are generated is little more than a crapshoot - the guessing of the capsid proteins means that the chance of them getting the right combination and therefore creating a truly effective vaccine isn't that high, so though I don't avoid flu vaccinations due to "getting sick from it," I do try to avoid them due to "it probably being useless, anyway." Case in point, I was vaccinated this year over a month ago, along with everyone I work with, and now have the flu that's going around. That we all seem to be getting.

I fully realize that the prevailing medical 'truth' is that it is not possible to get sick from the flu shot. However, completely anecdotal personal experience, the only two times I have gotten the flu shot are also the only two times I've gotten the flu as an adult. Coincidence? Very likely. However, I'm not looking to make it three for three. I bet that sometime in the future we find out that perhaps the prevaling 'truth' isn't entirely...true.

Probably just an issue with your caloric fluid.


Did you just say I sound fat, LOL?
 
2010-12-01 01:46:12 PM
MythDragon: This is why I am not an organ donor.
I want the medics to do every damn thing you can to save me (unless I am a brain dead, then DNR). I don't want some doctor going "Well this guy got shot...looks pretty bad...I could fix this, but I would probably be in surgery for 6 or 7 hours and I got to get up and hit the links in the morning...on the other hand, there is this cute little kid in room 207 that could really use this guy's gallbladder..."


t1.gstatic.com
That's not the way organ donation works!
 
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