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(LA Times)   Since 2007 when a mandatory reporting law was passed, nearly 90 California hospitals have made no errors at all. Which is odd, since virtuous scientists and public serving self sacrificing doctors have no motive to lie to the public. Ever   (articles.latimes.com) divider line 52
    More: Unlikely, California Department of Public Health, medication mistakes, patient advocates, Santa Clara  
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4685 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Nov 2010 at 12:28 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-29 09:41:20 AM  
So is this going to be a anti-elitist thread or a socialist Obamacare thread?
 
2010-11-29 12:06:52 PM  
Mentat: So is this going to be a anti-elitist thread or a socialist Obamacare thread?

Why can't it be both?
 
2010-11-29 12:30:56 PM  
Only liberals think elitist is a compliment.

Good to hear that CA is now on the road to the 100% perfection of the Cuban Health Care System.
 
2010-11-29 12:31:26 PM  
As a wise man once said, get your popcorn ready.
 
2010-11-29 12:34:13 PM  
They have scientists at hospitals now?
 
2010-11-29 12:34:38 PM  
"The state has substantiated reports of 1,100 medical errors since the law took effect in 2007. During that period, the state has fined 112 hospitals for medical errors, and 39 of those have appealed.

State Sen. Elaine Alquist (D- Santa Clara), who wrote the medical error law, said she was concerned that errors are going unreported."



Translation:

We think error free hospitals are dodging our "mistake tax." We want our farking cash.
 
2010-11-29 12:34:57 PM  
"State law outlines 28 medical errors that hospitals must report to the state because they place patients at risk of death or serious injury. After investigating, the state can issue fines of $50,000 for the first incident, $75,000 for the second and $100,000 for the third or subsequent error at the same hospital. The state must be notified of such errors within five days of the incident, with fines of up to $100 a day for delays."

(Emphasis mine)

Well, there's your problem right there. No one in their right mind are going to fess up to errors when money is on the line. If the gov't hasn't put a check in place to see if I'm reporting my errors, fark you, I'm not going to fess up.
 
2010-11-29 12:35:28 PM  
SphericalTime: Mentat: So is this going to be a anti-elitist thread or a socialist Obamacare thread?

Why can't it be both?


I want doctors to report their mistakes on a reality tv show where the home audience gets to use their cell phones to decide how much the doctors should be blamed personally. There can be special episode about kids every season. The doctors who get the most blame have to eat something gross.
 
2010-11-29 12:37:09 PM  
Obviously, the solution to this is get rid of the mandatory reporting, rather than risk further worsening the situation with more government involvement by allowing an investigation.
 
2010-11-29 12:37:43 PM  
Troll headline. Try virtuous hospital administrators and shareholders, doofus.
 
2010-11-29 12:38:13 PM  
Nocens: "The state has substantiated reports of 1,100 medical errors since the law took effect in 2007. During that period, the state has fined 112 hospitals for medical errors, and 39 of those have appealed.

State Sen. Elaine Alquist (D- Santa Clara), who wrote the medical error law, said she was concerned that errors are going unreported."


Translation:

We think error free hospitals are dodging our "mistake tax." We want our farking cash.


The error free hospitals respond, of course, with "prove it."

Oddly enough, there are places out there that follow their own procedures, perform tasks well, and simply don't screw up. If those hospitals did not commit any of the 28 mistakes for which the state can fine them, well, it's up to the state to prove otherwise.
 
2010-11-29 12:38:29 PM  
YoMammaObama: Only liberals think elitist is a compliment.

Good to hear that CA is now on the road to the 100% perfection of the Cuban Health Care System.


You can have the non-elitist doctor.

www.giantrobot.com

I'll take the elitist.
 
2010-11-29 12:38:44 PM  
Hollywood Upstairs Medical College.

www.desipio.com
 
2010-11-29 12:39:48 PM  
Bennie Crabtree: SphericalTime: Mentat: So is this going to be a anti-elitist thread or a socialist Obamacare thread?

Why can't it be both?

I want doctors to report their mistakes on a reality tv show where the home audience gets to use their cell phones to decide how much the doctors should be blamed personally. There can be special episode about kids every season. The doctors who get the most blame have to eat something gross.


I keep pictureing a game-show host shouting with an almost perverse glee, "You get to CHEW THE TUMOR!"
 
2010-11-29 12:39:53 PM  
KierzanDax: Well, there's your problem right there. No one in their right mind are going to fess up to errors when money is on the line. If the gov't hasn't put a check in place to see if I'm reporting my errors, fark you, I'm not going to fess up.

And this article is about the government using some of the money acquired in fines to ensure the reporting regime is in place.

Nocens: Translation:

We think error free hospitals are dodging our "mistake tax." We want our farking cash.


Why am I not surprised to see a Republican defend private industry against attempts to hold them accountable.
 
2010-11-29 12:40:06 PM  
Did you guys read the violations? They are pretty hefty, relatively easy to avoid violations with serious consequences.

I would hope these things never happen, but if they did, no one is going to report it, because the fine would be the least of their monetary concerns.
 
2010-11-29 12:40:23 PM  
the state issuing fines is the biggest problem.

reporting errors is one thing, but those errors should be used to make systemic improvements...as much as i dislike the term, they are teachable moments. if a lawsuit needs to be filed, so be it, but that is a personal matter, not a state matter. otherwise this discourages organizational improvement.
 
2010-11-29 12:40:30 PM  
FormlessOne: I keep pictureing picturing a game-show host

FTFM. Sigh.
 
2010-11-29 12:40:52 PM  
CA hospitals were the best. They made my co-worker wait three hours in the ER when he had cut off part of his thumb, so by the time he got back there it was too late to reattach it.

Worker's Comp bill: $9,000.
 
2010-11-29 12:42:11 PM  
thurstonxhowell: Obviously, the solution to this is get rid of the mandatory reporting, rather than risk further worsening the situation with more government involvement by allowing an investigation.

Lol, no.

The solution is to remove the fiscal penalty and make sure the physicians involved are reviewed for their part in the mistake and whether licenses need to be revoked. As it stands now, this is nothing but a revenue generating move by the state to capitalize on an expensive statistic.
 
2010-11-29 12:43:34 PM  
DragonIV: Troll headline. Try virtuous hospital administrators and shareholders, doofus.

Administrators and shareholders are under the thumb of ivory tower academics and scienticians, doofus.
 
2010-11-29 12:43:37 PM  
DragonIV: Troll headline. Try virtuous hospital administrators and shareholders, doofus.


Came here to say this.

This.

/we doctors are doing our best for our patients, for the most part
//please don't fling poo at me
 
2010-11-29 12:43:43 PM  
FormlessOne: Oddly enough, there are places out there that follow their own procedures, perform tasks well, and simply don't screw up. If those hospitals did not commit any of the 28 mistakes for which the state can fine them, well, it's up to the state to prove otherwise.

So basically, there's only 28 mistakes you can be fined for? If I were them I'd just stop doing the shiat I could get fined for.
 
2010-11-29 12:44:44 PM  
12349876: You can have the non-elitist doctor.

I'll take the elitist.


He's cheaper too.
 
2010-11-29 12:44:59 PM  
Tell the state? You're lucky if the tell the Patient.
 
2010-11-29 12:47:58 PM  
Dirty, corrupt doctors. Need to play god to feed their egos then they protect their own when they do wrong.
 
2010-11-29 12:49:57 PM  
Classic case case of what happens when the government deregulates a multi trillion dollar industry---see what happened to Wall Street and the banking industry?
 
2010-11-29 12:50:28 PM  
shirtsbyeric: Tell the state? You're lucky if the tell the Patient.

http://hfcis.cdph.ca.gov/faq/Hospital.aspx

link was in the article. But most of these involve the patient dying so they have that going for them.
 
2010-11-29 12:51:45 PM  
Looking at the numbers from the article's source, the other hospitals that DID report errors in the last three years averaged... one error per hospital per year, more or less. The reportable mistakes are mostly pretty big ones, too - death or something that risks causing death or major injury.

Considering that a lot of the "non-error" facilities were either very small, non-critical-care, or both? Going from one reported error per year to zero doesn't exactly require a huge conspiracy theory, ya know...
 
2010-11-29 12:52:38 PM  
captainktainer: Nocens: Translation:

We think error free hospitals are dodging our "mistake tax." We want our farking cash.

Why am I not surprised to see a Republican defend private industry against attempts to hold them accountable.



Probably because you make a lot of assumptions.
 
2010-11-29 12:55:48 PM  
So you cant trust a large, for profit group, to monitor & police themselfs. Who'd a thunk it.....
 
2010-11-29 01:13:54 PM  
TofuTheAlmighty: DragonIV: Troll headline. Try virtuous hospital administrators and shareholders, doofus.

Administrators and shareholders are under the thumb of ivory tower academics and scienticians, doofus.


LOL!
 
2010-11-29 01:16:20 PM  
FormlessOne: Nocens: "The state has substantiated reports of 1,100 medical errors since the law took effect in 2007. During that period, the state has fined 112 hospitals for medical errors, and 39 of those have appealed.

State Sen. Elaine Alquist (D- Santa Clara), who wrote the medical error law, said she was concerned that errors are going unreported."


Translation:

We think error free hospitals are dodging our "mistake tax." We want our farking cash.

The error free hospitals respond, of course, with "prove it."

Oddly enough, there are places out there that follow their own procedures, perform tasks well, and simply don't screw up. If those hospitals did not commit any of the 28 mistakes for which the state can fine them, well, it's up to the state to prove otherwise.



Dead bodies are hard to dispose of sans cremation, so there's usually a smoking gun to work with.

I just think we can find a penalty system which doesn't bypass the hospital and go straight to all of our insurance premiums.
 
2010-11-29 01:17:41 PM  
Nocens: Dead bodies are hard to dispose of sans cremation, so there's usually a smoking gun to work with.

Grind them into very small pieces and dissolve them in acid. It works very fast.
 
2010-11-29 01:19:10 PM  
Large state hospitals not making expensive blunders? They should be monitored closely already so we know if they are or, not.
/CSB my friend had blood poisoning at the state loony hatch, they didn't treat her until she had infected heart valves. Might not be a "medical error" in legal speak but damn the hatch could of saved some money by treating her earlier.
 
2010-11-29 01:20:39 PM  
Sid_6.7: Nocens: Dead bodies are hard to dispose of sans cremation, so there's usually a smoking gun to work with.

Grind them into very small pieces and dissolve them in acid. It works very fast.



Yea, but the families will be expecting more than a jar of goo to bury.
 
2010-11-29 01:22:05 PM  
i432.photobucket.com

/Hotlinked
 
2010-11-29 01:39:14 PM  
See, I could see a law where the states with, say, the 5% fewest error reports in a given 3-year period get audited the following year. For reports to be that low, one of three things has to be going on:

1) The hospital has some kind of awesome quality-assurance procedure which needs to be studied and duplicated.
2) The hospital doesn't have any particularly great QA, but mistakes of this kind are Just That Rare, which should be taken into account when making laws concerning this sort of thing.
3) The hospital isn't reporting the errors it makes, and needs to be nailed to the wall. Hard.

In any case, an lower-than-expected number of errors signals a need for a closer look. By tying it to relative performance rather than hard numbers, you make the system much harder to game.
 
2010-11-29 01:53:15 PM  
Braindeath: CA hospitals were the best. They made my co-worker wait three hours in the ER when he had cut off part of his thumb, so by the time he got back there it was too late to reattach it.

Worker's Comp bill: $9,000.


My dad cut off two of his fingers on his left hand. They couldn't re-attach them, either.

And they wouldn't even let him keep the fingers. They're HIS fingers! Wtf, hospital?!

/he wanted to make a necklace out of the bones
//my dad is weird
 
2010-11-29 02:05:30 PM  
Milennium:
2) The hospital doesn't have any particularly great QA, but mistakes of this kind are Just That Rare, which should be taken into account when making laws concerning this sort of thing.

The sort of errors this system is designed to catch are pretty unusual - literally one per hospital per year for a major facility. Considering that more than 20% of these "hospitals" are places where this sort of mistake are pretty much impossible (not a lot of surgical mistakes at a seven bed psych hospital, for example), going from one error per year to zero is not only possible, but should be expected.
 
2010-11-29 02:20:55 PM  
NoOrdinaryTaffy: DragonIV: Troll headline. Try virtuous hospital administrators and shareholders, doofus.


Came here to say this.

This.

/we doctors are doing our best for our patients, for the most part
//please don't fling poo at me


Not true. Or else I've had the lion's share of CRAP Dr's in my experience.

Dr's by and large are worried first about their bottom line, medical reputation second, and which t-time they can make if they let the nurses close for them.

The two exceptions have been my daughters pediatrician and oncologist. I have stories that would make you want to smack a colleague or three.

Dr's are sorta like other people, they just have social standing to kill you and not go to jail. Sorta like cops, but with a better dental plan.
 
2010-11-29 02:21:20 PM  
Nocens: Probably because you make a lot of assumptions.

No assumption. This is a market-oriented solution to provide an incentive to improve safety standards, but even that isn't enough for a Republican like yourself.
 
2010-11-29 02:27:03 PM  
State Sen. Elaine Alquist (D- Santa Clara), this lady seems as about sharp as that water head Corky from Life Goes On.
 
2010-11-29 02:36:12 PM  
We do have some of the nations best hospitals, PVH and Loma Linda come to mind.

/DRTFA
 
2010-11-29 03:00:58 PM  
In Tennessee the medical field uses the Peer Review statute to get around the reporting statute. Under the PR statute any investigations into possible medical malpractice are considered privileged.

So if two patients die during or following minor out-patient surgery, and they receive a complaint, they conduct and investigation and make a finding with is protected by Peer Review privileged and don't report it. (This is not an made up example, one TN doc killed two patients within a 8 months period of time preforming bladder tack operations. No report filed despite multi-million dollar settlements in both cases.)

/Your legislator.... in the pocket of the medical lobby and insurance lobby since just about the beginnings of those professions.
 
2010-11-29 03:09:13 PM  
JeffreyScott: /Your legislator.... in the pocket of the medical lobby and insurance lobby since just about the beginnings of those professions.

Actually, "politician" is the world's oldest profession. They just used to call it something different.
 
2010-11-29 03:13:21 PM  
captainktainer: Nocens: Probably because you make a lot of assumptions.

No assumption. This is a market-oriented solution to provide an incentive to improve safety standards, but even that isn't enough for a Republican like yourself.


You just made the same assumption again.

And no, it's not. It's a revenue generator for the state nothing more nothing less. It solves absolutely nothing except milk money from patients (customers) who are the ones who ultimately suffer from a fiscal penalty; particularly an industry which is heavily reliant on insurance.

Try an economics class or two and welcome to ignore, hopey guy.
 
2010-11-29 03:20:05 PM  
We should have self-reporting by politicians and lawyers. That would solve everything.
 
2010-11-29 03:52:27 PM  
I'd like to self-report that I've never made a mistake, either.
 
2010-11-29 04:54:04 PM  
/he wanted to make a necklace out of the bones
//my dad is weird


Sound like a good weird, I mean I'd have kept them.
 
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