Debriefer X: downpaymentblues: I just question whether the FBI could say ANYTHING to me to convince me I wanted to blow up innocent people at a holiday ceremony.

Perhaps not, but i bet they could convince OTHER people you wanted to.

Interesting point, considering they have it the past. The anthrax case pops immediately to mind.

I'll be following this particular case with interest.

thamike

You're part of the problem. As long as "both sides" agree upon a "holy war," you're all f*cked. Which would be fine if none of you were f*cking with my time, my life, and my money.

So you believe islamists committed 181 deadly terror attacks against non-military targets in 17 countries against people from 5 different religions killing 616 people and critically injuring 923 others during the last month ... because some Christians believe them when they say they are fighting a holy war? Link

Mike, I think you may need to collect your thoughts a little bit more.

violentsalvation: boo hoo

This.

Shenanigans!

They torched their own office to destroy evidence

/hehe

thamike

Interesting inference, but I understand the motive behind it.

What do you believe to be "the motive"?

Thrash Attack: GaryPDX: This whole deal stinks of manufacture. This kid had no contact with anyone but the FBI. They manufactured the whole thing and led him down the path. They gave him money to pay his rent. This kid is a victim of manufactured thought crime.

He did have contact with people other than the FBI. He was in contact with a group in Pakistan and was in the middle of arranging for travel there to be trained when the FBI stepped in. He also posted to an online journal called "Inspire" and another one called "Jihad Recollections" with articles about killing American troops. He stated that he wanted to go "operational."

You knew that though right? Because you do some serious research before you accuse the FBI of setting people up right?

Funny how DHS can shut down sites for swapping songs but not the terrorist recruting or propaganda sites, just pathetic. Next hell be saying those sites are set up by the FBI.

Lenny_da_Hog: Penman: Not that vandalism is OK, but the mosque did support this guy.

A day before Sunday's fire, leaders at the Corvallis mosque had released a statement condemning the alleged bomb plot.

"We denounce this horrible plot in the strongest terms and repudiate all those who commit such acts of mindless violence in the name of Islam," the statement said. "Islam is a religion of peace and these acts are not the legitimate acts of Muslims."

Spiritual support is still support.

Anyone who uses a phrase like "'Merikans" should be stabbed in the throat with a pitch fork.

lunchinlewis

Martyrdom. Seems to be one of their favorite pastimes.

I believe many of them may be after the amazing afterlife rewards which are promised to jihadists who die while killing infidels. I'm not so sure that listening to seventy virgins would be all that much fun though. Do they get any hearing protection?

Thrash Attack: Read some of the articles Big Al and then when you can come back and honestly say this Somali born wannabe Jihadi, is "regular people," I'll say you aren't regular.

You're wasting your time with that guy. He takes common sense wraps it up in a ball and pisses on it.

This kid said he wanted to hang himself and he went to buy rope. The FBI sold him the rope and he tried to do it. That's all there is to it.

Thrash Attack Quote 2010-11-29 01:28:50 PM
Read some of the articles Big Al and then when you can come back and honestly say this Somali born wannabe Jihadi, is "regular people," I'll say you aren't regular.

>>>

No different than any kid the military takes from the slums of America and brainwashes them with right wing indoctrination to make them vengeful and remorseless killing machines. I bet the FBI could setup a sting on half the unemployed in America and if giving them financial support could ask almost anything. Just ask the street gangs and organized crime how easy it is to hook someone in poor financial situations.

Big Al: No different than any kid the military takes from the slums of America and brainwashes them with right wing indoctrination to make them vengeful and remorseless killing machines.

I don't mean to contradict you, but most killers tend to be left-wing. Just look at Stalin and Hitler.

thamike

To use my point to advance your preconceived notions, while obfuscating what I said, and further distract from the point.

I just asked you a question. I believe your "point" about "both sides agreeing on a holy war" ignores the fact that muslims are engaged in a somewhat perpetual war with everyone ... including each other.

downpaymentblues: GAT_00: downpaymentblues: I can't say the only way he was a threat was with a bomb.

Ah, you clearly know quite a bit about this kid. Maybe you should talk to the FBI, in case there is anything they don't know about. Or you can quit being a tough guy when you know nothing.

How does my comment equate to being a tough guy?

I'm merely pointing out that he could have easily taken a semi-automatic weapon to the crowded festival had he not mistakenly emailed the wrong person and made it on to the FBI's radar.

What do you know that I don't regarding this situation that affords you the higher ground and personal attack?

GAT_00 is apt to become ad-hominem any time he doesn't have a decent counter-argument. I thought most people who are fark regulars knew this by now.

If by left wing you mean right, then sure I agree.
If by left wing you mean trolling then 8/10.

wolfpaq777: GAT_00 is apt to become ad-hominem any time he doesn't have a decent counter-argument. I thought most people who are fark regulars knew this by now.

I am not a regular. I'm still trying to figure out all the animosity. The online world is much more angry than real life.

thamike

Sensitiveborderarea: I just asked you a question. I believe your "point" about "both sides agreeing on a holy war" ignores the fact that muslims are engaged in a somewhat perpetual war with everyone ... including each other.

Not really. It's a non-contradictory point.


Islamists are fighting each other and adherents of every other major religion on the planet. That seems like many more sides than would normally be described by the word "both". Perhaps you could enhance your efforts to eschew obfuscation.

Big Al: Party Boy [TotalFark] Quote 2010-11-29 11:05:30 AM
Big Al: .

I got this post by you on my profile.

2006-06-05 05:20:31 PM Big Al
and yes, white people have been the root cause of almost every problem in society. I am sorry you [to Eochada] cant face facts



I'm not sure if you're being serious.


>>>>

To prove how pathetic you are?


Question answered? Nope. Still believe this, Big Al?

ComicBookGuy: Well, whenever I hear of some appalling act of religious-fueled violence, I think: "Who could have done this? Buddhists? Mormons? Shintoists?" Gosh darn diddly, I just don't know!!! After all, ALL RELIGIONS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!!

They are in some respects (new window)

Sure why not, I believe it, as long as it pisses you off so much you not only put it in your profile but repost it years later.

Big Al: Sure why not, I believe it, as long as it pisses you off........

Just answer the question.

2006-06-05 05:20:31 PM Big Al
and yes, white people have been the root cause of almost every problem in society. I am sorry you [to Eochada] cant face facts

You believe this?

I would say that yes, since the Caucasian dominance of world societies around the Crusade times, they have managed to fark a lot of things up. How many people have died in the hands of right wing Conservative white people? How many Germans, Russians, English, Irish, etc. That's a few hundred million lost lives. Who can even come close to topping that? Now with the unjust wars in Iraq and Afghanistan the numbers rise even higher. Sorry Islam, you've got a long way to go! Good luck though, brown people.

At these things, do you still need to bring your own pitchfork?

Big Al: I would say that yes, since the Caucasian dominance of world societies around the Crusade times, they have managed to fark a lot of things up. How many people have died in the hands of right wing Conservative white people? How many Germans, Russians, English, Irish, etc. That's a few hundred million lost lives. Who can even come close to topping that? Now with the unjust wars in Iraq and Afghanistan the numbers rise even higher. Sorry Islam, you've got a long way to go! Good luck though, brown people.

This is why people have a problem with the public school system, and why we have special ed.

Big Al: I would say that yes

And do you still believe that, as per 2006-06-02 03:29:31 PM

Arabs have full rights (citizen/nationality) in Israel?



Since we're on the topic of painting an entire wide swath of people with an aggressor brush, can you list anything that Israel does that cant be explained away as self defense or in response to ___?

Joe Blowme Quote 2010-11-29 03:12:07 PM

This is why people have a problem with the public school system, and why we have special ed.

>>>>>

That's funny I never got below an A in any history class... but go ahead and point out where I was wrong...

Party Boy: Israel does that cant be explained away as self defense or in response to ___?

Collective Israel. "A few bad apples" doesn't count.

Party Boy [TotalFark] Quote 2010-11-29 03:15:09 PM

Arabs have full rights (citizen/nationality) in Israel?


Yes arabs who are Israeli citizens have full rights, you want to try and disprove this?


Since we're on the topic of painting an entire wide swath of people with an aggressor brush, can you list anything that Israel does that cant be explained away as self defense or in response to ___?

Finally your agenda comes out. Took you long enough. Go find another outlet for your anger than tracking people who have different and more educated opinions on topics you are thousands of miles away from and would never understand even if given a full year to learn

Big Al: Yes arabs who are Israeli citizens have full rights, you want to try and disprove this?

le'um and nationality

It would not occur to the average English peaking observer to object to translating ezrahut as "nationality" because "citizenship" and "nationality" are interchangeable terms in the United States, as well as in most democratic societies. In Israel, however, they are two separate and very different statuses. Citizenship (ezrahut) may be held by Arabs as well as Jews while nationality (le'um), which bestows significantly greater rights than citizenship, may be claimed by Jews alone.

To refer to "Arab nationals," as this law does, is a deceptive translation of ezrahut, because Arabs or others who are not Jews cannot be "nationals" of Israel. Only Jews can be "nationals." Their nationality rights are granted by the Law of Return. No Israeli nationality applies to all citizens, as does a US nationality in the United States or French nationality in France, for example. In Israel, there is only a Jewish nationality. That non-Jews cannot qualify for nationality rights in the state of Israel was affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1972 in a statement that there is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people.

Also, see page 220

thamike

You're moving the goalposts. The "both" was implied by those I was responding to--as in, Islam vs. Christianity." You know it. I know it. You're paddling down a tributary for reasons you seem reluctant to disclose, and which I am reluctant to indulge.

Perhaps you should have just answered my simple "yes or no" question instead of worrying about my boat. My point is that islam's war is much larger than just the part against Christianity. To imply that the Christians could make it go away by ignoring it is pretty crazy.

Big Al: more educated

List one thing that you feel the Israelis, collectively, have done thats "bad" that can't be explained away as "self defense" or "in response to."

Lets see.

Where is the outrage exactly? Go be a Jew and demand citizenship in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, etc. Arabs who are Israeli citizens have full rights. Period. Just because some radical right wingers want to build settlements because they believe God granted them land doesn't mean the entire country thinks that way. Go troll someone else, or stand in front of a bulldozer.

Big Al: Where is the outrage exactly?

Buying land (JNF and leasing to Jews only) and the right of return is a few of the problems of the Israeli separation of nationality and law. Theyre very large problems, too.

Its confusing to Americans because its strange to see citizen laws and nationality laws.

Lets have it. List one thing that you feel the Israelis, collectively, have done thats "bad" that can't be explained away as "self defense" or "in response to."

Nice attempt at thread hijacking, but if you actually followed the debates you would see I am very against the right wing military industrial complex in Israel that allows them to build settlements anywhere they want. I was talking about citizen rights, nobody can oppress or not hire an Arab holding an Israeli passport. You aren't above the law as a Jewish citizen compared to Arab. etc.

Big Al: I am very against the right wing military industrial complex in Israel that allows them to build settlements anywhere they want.



Big Al 2003-06-12 12:25:54 PM Occupation is necessary for the protection of the Israeli citizens.

Self defense/ in response to.

Try again

Big Al: I was talking about citizen rights

Party Boy: And do you still believe that, as per 2006-06-02 03:29:31 PM

Arabs have full rights (citizen/nationality) in Israel?

Arabs don't have the right of return like Jews. Arabs are barred from buying JNF/leased of the land.

Why do you keep playing semantics? I said from the start that Arabs who are already Israeli citizens. So what if arabs living in Jordan can't suddenly appear on Israels door and demand citizenship? Can you do that anywhere? And so what if Arabs can't settle on land the right wing wants to develop for religious extremists?

GAT_00: downpaymentblues: You don't think he was a threat?

I think he stopped being a threat once the FBI sold him a fake bomb. These people who burned the mosque are the biggest threat by far now. And if he couldn't tell that he had a fake bomb, I don't think he was a real threat to make a real one on his own.

Huh, I didn't even know that aspect of the story (FBI selling him a fake bomb). I need to pay more attention to the news so I can be more timely in using a meme such as "Someone set him up the bomb".

Big Al: Arabs who are already Israeli citizens

Party Boy: Arabs don't have the right of return like Jews. Arabs are barred from buying JNF/leased of the land.

There's more, but thats enough.

The right of return is a collective issue, much like your blanket condemnation for people who are "white" or your blanket defense of Israelis.