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(CNN)   You know that failed FBI-orchestrated terrorist attack the other day in Oregon? Well, some Real 'Merikans torched the suspect's mosque this morning   (religion.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 653
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24253 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Nov 2010 at 4:13 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-29 11:30:19 AM
I heard this on my short drive into work this morning, and just had to scream "F*CK!!!!"

I'm farking sick and tired of all the hatred in this world.

I just want to brew my beer, grow my garden, have a dog, and live a calm, peaceful life.
 
2010-11-29 11:31:00 AM
How is setting fire to a building the same thing as trying to kill hundreds of people? The former is a civil, not capital, offense as long as nobody is in the building when it burns down.

Not that I condone burning down mosques, mind you, I just don't think the two things are on the same level.
 
2010-11-29 11:31:12 AM
People > Building

Anyone trying to say someone trying to kill people versus someone burning down a building are anyway equal is pretty disgusting. It is also pretty reasonable for someone living in the community to assume that the person trying to kill people was indoctrinated in this mosque and hence the desire to burn the building down people more kids are turned into bombers.
 
2010-11-29 11:34:30 AM
thamike

Sensitiveborderarea: Why is it so unlikely? The incident garners sympathy for islam from naive "infidels", and it destroyed some records which could conceivably been used against islam. False flag operations are one of the most popular stratagems of war and Islam is at war with western civilization.

My odds are on a dumbass hick.


It could be someone or a close relative if someone who was supposed to die in a recent failed bomb plot. Who knows? It could be a parent of a little child who was targeted for death by an islamic "holy warrior". Parental instincts can sometimes cause parents to become angry and irrational when someone tries to kill their young. Of course, probably only what you call a "dumbass hick" would do something violent in retaliation. Intelligent members of a civilized society control those angry emotions and just sit around debating while their civilized society disappears around them.
 
2010-11-29 11:35:11 AM
aragonphx: It is also pretty reasonable for someone living in the community to assume that the person trying to kill people was indoctrinated in this mosque

Why?
 
2010-11-29 11:37:15 AM
It's a good start.

Seriously, when folks oppose the building of mosques they're decried as "Islamophobes" or some such P.C. hokum yet, oddly, it seems that these terrorists - be they foreign or domestic - all seem to worship at mosques now don't they?

This country is ready to blow and the next time there's a large-scale and successful terrorist attack committed by some Islamic asshole I fully expect acts like this to become common place and hit squads to descend on Muslim gatherings to commit whole sale slaughter.

It's the natural response.

It's the logical response.

It's an overdue response.

It won't bother most folks one whit they're just too afraid to say so right now.
 
2010-11-29 11:41:57 AM
If the FBI has to build your bomb for you, you're not really a terrorist.
 
2010-11-29 11:42:08 AM
Sensitiveborderarea: Parental instincts can sometimes cause parents to become angry and irrational when someone tries to kill their young. Of course, probably only what you call a "dumbass hick" would do something violent in retaliation. Intelligent members of a civilized society control those angry emotions and just sit around debating while their civilized society disappears around them.

It wasn't a violent reaction. It was simple arson. Dumbass hick. Ineffective/unjustifiable is a symbiotic waltz to dumbass hicks.
 
2010-11-29 11:42:36 AM
meat0918: I heard this on my short drive into work this morning, and just had to scream "F*CK!!!!"

I'm farking sick and tired of all the hatred in this world.

I just want to brew my beer, grow my garden, have a dog, and live a calm, peaceful life.


Dogs are unclean beasts, and alcohol is a sin, Infidel!
 
2010-11-29 11:43:27 AM
Oh_Enough_Already: This country is ready to blow and the next time there's a large-scale and successful terrorist attack committed by some Islamic asshole I fully expect acts like this to become common place and hit squads to descend on Muslim gatherings to commit whole sale slaughter.


Random peasant violence is not only tremendously unlikely but in addition won't solve anything, please remember to take your meds.
 
2010-11-29 11:44:16 AM
give me doughnuts: meat0918: I heard this on my short drive into work this morning, and just had to scream "F*CK!!!!"

I'm farking sick and tired of all the hatred in this world.

I just want to brew my beer, grow my garden, have a dog, and live a calm, peaceful life.

Dogs are unclean beasts, and alcohol is a sin, Infidel!


Been called that before, and the proper response is, "Thank you for the compliment".
 
2010-11-29 11:44:42 AM
dittybopper: Now, it might not necessarily be 'entrapment' in the strictest legal sense of the word, but certainly if I were on that particular jury, I'd have some major misgivings about the case.

That's the point of a jury. But then again, I'm only going on the info that has been released. So far, it's pretty damning. I see no entrapment. No doubt, the judge and the jury will see other details. From the info at hand, though, this guy was not in any way coerced into this plot. We can speculate, but I'm only judging by the evidence.
 
2010-11-29 11:48:19 AM
meat0918: give me doughnuts: meat0918: I heard this on my short drive into work this morning, and just had to scream "F*CK!!!!"

I'm farking sick and tired of all the hatred in this world.

I just want to brew my beer, grow my garden, have a dog, and live a calm, peaceful life.

Dogs are unclean beasts, and alcohol is a sin, Infidel!

Been called that before, and the proper response is, "Thank you for the compliment".


What kind of unclean beast?
Mine's a mastiff/coon-hound/? retriever mix.
 
2010-11-29 11:50:04 AM
spmkk:
You might not have noticed this (it's easy to miss), but the U.S. is presently at war. Communicating with someone in enemy territory is most definitely reasonable grounds for suspicion.


You might not have noticed this (it's easy to miss), but Pakistan is an American ally.
 
2010-11-29 11:53:42 AM
The Envoy: "aragonphx: It is also pretty reasonable for someone living in the community to assume that the person trying to kill people was indoctrinated in this mosque

Why?"



Because willful blindness is counterproductive.
 
2010-11-29 11:56:21 AM
give me doughnuts: meat0918: give me doughnuts: meat0918: I heard this on my short drive into work this morning, and just had to scream "F*CK!!!!"

I'm farking sick and tired of all the hatred in this world.

I just want to brew my beer, grow my garden, have a dog, and live a calm, peaceful life.

Dogs are unclean beasts, and alcohol is a sin, Infidel!

Been called that before, and the proper response is, "Thank you for the compliment".

What kind of unclean beast?
Mine's a mastiff/coon-hound/? retriever mix.


Staffordshire Terrier, the smaller English breed not the larger American Staffordshire Terrier. Also known as a pit bull in more colloquial terms.

It's still a puppy though at my sister-in-laws, and it's already striking fear into my (former) Jehovah's Witness neighbor.

I'm sure my old Pakistani boss in downtown Eugene wouldn't like the thing either.

He also got a bit loopy during the fasting associated with Ramadan. I blame low blood sugar. He was an odd one during that time; and didn't understand that asking his female employees at the motel to sit on a bed and chat is not appropriate in American business culture.

He made some hella good food though.
 
2010-11-29 11:59:00 AM
dittybopper: Talking about doing something, and actually doing it, are two different things. One is perfectly legal, the other isn't. This guy was all talk and no action *UNTIL* the FBI provided him with a fake bomb. It was a crime wholly manufactured by the FBI: Take them out of the equation, and no crime was committed.

So if soemone wanted to kill their wife and hired an undercover cop who actually never had any intention of killing the wife should they not be charged? After all if the undercover cop was out of the equation no criem woudl have been committed.
 
2010-11-29 11:59:20 AM
Eugene, Oregon gets a bad rap for being a hotbed of political activism, but the biggest nutjobs I've ever come across regarding "radical thought" come from Corvallis. There is an abandoned gas station North of Corvallis that is spray painted with misspelled anti-corporate slogans and poorly quoted Orwell. Real activism there guys. It is just the kind of town that would embolden some teenager to think he'd be a hero for blowing up some people in Portland. Check out the half-assed sit-ins the ELF/ALF folks have at OSU labs and the 18 and 19 year old kids who have it all figured out trying to "start a dialogue" about the evils of Playboy magazine.

Surround that town with a bunch of out-of-work loggers and RV technicians and you've got a lot of pissed of Republicans with free time looking for an excuse to lash out.

Also hope OSU takes a serious beating on Saturday.
 
2010-11-29 11:59:59 AM
Sensitiveborderarea: haddie

Just because they are communist does not ipso facto mean they aren't given a diety to worship. If everything in communism worked like it was supposed to, we would all be communists. North Korea has a diety: Kim Il-Sung. Therefore, they aren't atheist.

Atheism is pretty much just a fictitious illusion anyway. Whatever is most important to you ... that is really your god.


I read that when you wrote it earlier. It wasn't true the first time, and it isn't true once repeated. At the moment, I would say my wife and family are most important to me. I don't consider either of them to be godlike, nor deities. They are merely things important to my life.

God means:

1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. ( lowercase ) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. ( often lowercase ) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. Christian Science . the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. ( lowercase ) an image of a deity; an idol.
7. ( lowercase ) any deified person or object.

Please explain which of these my wife and family fall into, and I'll take your post with less of a "first-year phil. minor pedant" grain of salt.
 
2010-11-29 12:00:43 PM
More_Like_A_Stain: "You might not have noticed this (it's easy to miss), but Pakistan is an American ally."

Actually, that is sometimes easy to miss. More to the point, alliances are a little more nuanced than that. For instance, just because American voters elected Obama as President, it doesn't mean that most people in Texas are allies of the Democratic Party.
 
2010-11-29 12:01:21 PM
Just goes to show that when it comes to it there is no crazy like Oregonian.

/was born there.
//still love the state.
///Yes Oregon has just as flavorful of a nut collection as CA, but not as much money.
 
2010-11-29 12:03:01 PM
Thrash Attack: Eugene, Oregon gets a bad rap for being a hotbed of political activism, but the biggest nutjobs I've ever come across regarding "radical thought" come from Corvallis. There is an abandoned gas station North of Corvallis that is spray painted with misspelled anti-corporate slogans and poorly quoted Orwell. Real activism there guys. It is just the kind of town that would embolden some teenager to think he'd be a hero for blowing up some people in Portland. Check out the half-assed sit-ins the ELF/ALF folks have at OSU labs and the 18 and 19 year old kids who have it all figured out trying to "start a dialogue" about the evils of Playboy magazine.

Surround that town with a bunch of out-of-work loggers and RV technicians and you've got a lot of pissed of Republicans with free time looking for an excuse to lash out.

Also hope OSU takes a serious beating on Saturday.


Living in Eugene, the activism has shift to helping the community rather than random protests.

Most of the hippies are old and grizzled, and those that haven't sold out are busy trying to make Eugene a vibrant and livable community.

To paraphrase what someone told me once, "Eugene is where the activists come to retire."
 
2010-11-29 12:08:22 PM
halfof33: thamike:
I wouldn't call you a patsy for the FBI, but the charging the family for the bullet thing makes you sound like a Chinaman.

You are correct. I feel bad. I will graciously offer to cover the family's share of the cost of the bullt.

We cool now?


So are you a Communist or a Socialist? Or do you just swing both ways?
 
2010-11-29 12:09:01 PM
Of course, islam didn't make him want to do it... it was the FBI all along.
 
2010-11-29 12:09:16 PM
give me doughnuts: The fire was probably started by someone on the mosque staff. A little "backlash" to claim victim status, and they can call the possible result of any investigation "Islamophobia."

Typical false-flag operation. Hajji is good at playing the guilt card against his enemies. Don't be a sap, people.
 
2010-11-29 12:13:36 PM
liam76: dittybopper: Talking about doing something, and actually doing it, are two different things. One is perfectly legal, the other isn't. This guy was all talk and no action *UNTIL* the FBI provided him with a fake bomb. It was a crime wholly manufactured by the FBI: Take them out of the equation, and no crime was committed.

So if soemone wanted to kill their wife and hired an undercover cop who actually never had any intention of killing the wife should they not be charged? After all if the undercover cop was out of the equation no criem woudl have been committed.


I think you make a good point because in your example the man HIRED the FBI...in the case of the terrorist 19 year-old it was the other way around: The FBI was actually paying his rent.
 
2010-11-29 12:14:53 PM
More_Like_A_Stain: halfof33:

So are you a Communist or a Socialist? Or do you just swing both ways?


I am a god damn National farking Treasure.

Hell, use a rope, I am confident that they have one just laying around someplace.
 
2010-11-29 12:16:30 PM
spmkk: The Envoy: "aragonphx: It is also pretty reasonable for someone living in the community to assume that the person trying to kill people was indoctrinated in this mosque

Why?"


Because willful blindness is counterproductive.


So is it your contention that all mosque-goers are radicalised fanatics?
 
2010-11-29 12:16:39 PM
meat0918: He made some hella good food though.

Yeah. That Northern India/Kashmiri/Pakistani chow is delicious.
 
2010-11-29 12:18:38 PM
The main actor in this whole thing is islam. No islam = no plot to kill.
 
2010-11-29 12:18:53 PM
glenlivid: I think you make a good point because in your example the man HIRED the FBI...in the case of the terrorist 19 year-old it was the other way around: The FBI was actually paying his rent.

His point was that if the FBI wasn't involved there would be no crime. IF that is the logic being used than hiring an undercover agent to kill a spouse is also not a crime.

You do bring up a good point. If it comes out that they came out and said here is money to commit this crime, ok entrapment. If he says he wants to commit some kind of terror attack and they then say here is some walking around money to keep you free to do it that is another story.
 
2010-11-29 12:25:52 PM
There was no entrapment. He was the one reaching out for support and luckily the FBI responded before real support (with real bombs) stepped in. Here is the legal definition of Entrapment:

n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead.

Don't throw around legal terms that you learned from Law & Order.

Are you guys saying this guy shouldn't have been arrested?
 
2010-11-29 12:37:11 PM
Thrash Attack: Are you guys saying this guy shouldn't have been arrested?

I have no idea what they're saying. It sounds like the same kind of armchair BS they usually complain about here.
 
2010-11-29 12:39:06 PM
The Envoy: "So is it your contention that all mosque-goers are radicalised fanatics?"


Certainly not. However, I will contend that the overwhelming majority of radicalized (to the point of actually carrying out terrorist acts) fanatics are mosque-goers. To be clear, that is ABSOLUTELY NOT a justification for setting fire to a mosque. But it is reasonable grounds for inferring causality.
 
2010-11-29 12:45:43 PM
spmkk: The Envoy: "So is it your contention that all mosque-goers are radicalised fanatics?"


Certainly not. However, I will contend that the overwhelming majority of radicalized (to the point of actually carrying out terrorist acts) fanatics are mosque-goers. To be clear, that is ABSOLUTELY NOT a justification for setting fire to a mosque. But it is reasonable grounds for inferring causality.


And more scrutiny at the very least.
 
2010-11-29 12:53:13 PM
Thrash Attack: There was no entrapment. He was the one reaching out for support and luckily the FBI responded before real support (with real bombs) stepped in. Here is the legal definition of Entrapment:

n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead.

Don't throw around legal terms that you learned from Law & Order.

Are you guys saying this guy shouldn't have been arrested?


We've only heard one side of the story at this point.

Certainly it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the suspect to have had second thoughts, and expressed them to the FBI agents, but for the agents in question to not include that in the indictment papers, hoping that the guy would plead out to avoid a trial.
 
2010-11-29 12:56:32 PM
dittybopper: We've only heard one side of the story at this point.

Certainly it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the suspect to have had second thoughts, and expressed them to the FBI agents, but for the agents in question to not include that in the indictment papers, hoping that the guy would plead out to avoid a trial.


It surely wouldn't. But, here we are.
 
2010-11-29 12:57:36 PM
I guess it's

Christian Terrorists: 1
Muslim Terrorists: 0

for the long weekend. USA! USA! USA!
 
2010-11-29 01:03:38 PM
thamike: dittybopper: We've only heard one side of the story at this point.

Certainly it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the suspect to have had second thoughts, and expressed them to the FBI agents, but for the agents in question to not include that in the indictment papers, hoping that the guy would plead out to avoid a trial.

It surely wouldn't. But, here we are.


Yep. Nothin' to do but sit around and wait to see what happens.

Anybody want *A* Coke?

/Emphasize the singular to make it plain I'm talking about a drink, not nose candy.
 
2010-11-29 01:04:58 PM
LouDobbsAwaaaay: I guess it's

Christian Terrorists: 1/2
Muslim Terrorists: 0

for the long weekend. USA! USA! USA!


It was only part of a building...
 
2010-11-29 01:05:29 PM
GaryPDX: This whole deal stinks of manufacture. This kid had no contact with anyone but the FBI. They manufactured the whole thing and led him down the path. They gave him money to pay his rent. This kid is a victim of manufactured thought crime.

Does it hurt being this stupid?
 
2010-11-29 01:07:51 PM
Sure we've only heard one side. There hasn't been a trial yet so we will only hear the Fed's side of the argument until then. However people are throwing around terms that are not applicable to this situation. What we do know, is that Mohamud is charged with carrying out a "plan to detonate what he thought was an explosives-laden van at a Portland tree-lighting ceremony." Unless the entire thing is a sinister plot by the FBI to systematically arrest every person who has ever attended a Mosque, we can believe that he did indeed intend to kill as many people as possible, including children and babies.

With all the great points being made using vague and incorrect notions of "entrapment" nobody seems to be disagreeing with the fact that this man was dangerous and violent.


Also here is a quote from the Imam in Corvallis:

"I wish I could have intervened in a way to consult him. I wish he could have spoken to me," said Wanly, his voice breaking with emotion. "He destroyed his future."

Yeah, good thing his future was the only one destroyed.
 
2010-11-29 01:13:01 PM
haddie

I read that when you wrote it earlier. It wasn't true the first time, and it isn't true once repeated. At the moment, I would say my wife and family are most important to me. I don't consider either of them to be godlike, nor deities. They are merely things important to my life.

God means:

1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. ( lowercase ) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. ( often lowercase ) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. Christian Science . the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. ( lowercase ) an image of a deity; an idol.
7. ( lowercase ) any deified person or object.

Please explain which of these my wife and family fall into, and I'll take your post with less of a "first-year phil. minor pedant" grain of salt.




Look up the word "idol".
Meaning number 3
"any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion: Madame Curie had been her childhood idol."

Look up the word "deity"
meaning number 4
"a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity."

Obviously, "deity" can mean something besides a celestial supernatural being. In your case, it apparently means something more meaningful than money. If, as you say, your family is the most important thing to you, then it is your primary devotion. According to dictionary.com your family is therefore your idol, which according to your provided definitions is the 6th meaning for "god". I consider your choice of your primary devotion to be considerably more respectable than money, power, pleasure, a sports hero, political correctness, some communist despot. On the other hand, I fully respect other people's right to idolize other concepts, beings or items.
 
2010-11-29 01:18:26 PM
Party Boy [TotalFark] Quote 2010-11-29 11:05:30 AM
Big Al: .

I got this post by you on my profile.

2006-06-05 05:20:31 PM Big Al
and yes, white people have been the root cause of almost every problem in society. I am sorry you [to Eochada] cant face facts



I'm not sure if you're being serious.


>>>>

To prove how pathetic you are?
 
2010-11-29 01:19:40 PM
cristo_delenda_est Quote 2010-11-29 11:08:02 AM

BRB: Calling bullshiat.

Dang, meant to add this...

>>>>

What does infiltrating gangs have to do with setting up regular people to commit acts of terror?
 
2010-11-29 01:23:28 PM
Big Al: What does infiltrating gangs have to do with setting up regular people to commit acts of terror?

I would really like to see evidence of a set-up. Really. Do you have any evidence of a set-up?
 
2010-11-29 01:28:31 PM
LouDobbsAwaaaay: I guess it's

Christian Terrorists: 1
Muslim Terrorists: 0

for the long weekend. USA! USA! USA!


Yes, because only Christians would want to retaliate. All American citizens who are fed the fark up with the "religion of peace" MUST be Christian.

But you keep farking that biggest of all bullshiat, FARK myths that make the pseudo-intellectuals feel all warm and cozy. ZOMG! Christians are just as evil as radical Muslims!

In case you have not been keeping score since the 1970's, Muslims are winning the murder count over Christians by an enormous margin. Yeah, when I think of terrorism and mass murdering 1000's of people, immediately I think of a bunch of nuns.

But...but...but some random abortion doctor in 1997!!!

Let me know when it becomes a daily worldwide occurance you insufferable piece of Christian hating shiat.
 
2010-11-29 01:28:50 PM
Read some of the articles Big Al and then when you can come back and honestly say this Somali born wannabe Jihadi, is "regular people," I'll say you aren't regular.
 
2010-11-29 01:33:41 PM
Reality Dichotomist: Yes, because only Christians would want to retaliate. All American citizens who are fed the fark up with the "religion of peace" MUST be Christian.

But you keep farking that biggest of all bullshiat, FARK myths that make the pseudo-intellectuals feel all warm and cozy. ZOMG! Christians are just as evil as radical Muslims!

In case you have not been keeping score since the 1970's, Muslims are winning the murder count over Christians by an enormous margin. Yeah, when I think of terrorism and mass murdering 1000's of people, immediately I think of a bunch of nuns.

But...but...but some random abortion doctor in 1997!!!

Let me know when it becomes a daily worldwide occurance you insufferable piece of Christian hating shiat.


You're part of the problem. As long as "both sides" agree upon a "holy war," you're all f*cked. Which would be fine if none of you were f*cking with my time, my life, and my money.
 
2010-11-29 01:38:34 PM
GaryPDX: This whole deal stinks of manufacture. This kid had no contact with anyone but the FBI. They manufactured the whole thing and led him down the path. They gave him money to pay his rent. This kid is a victim of manufactured thought crime.

He did have contact with people other than the FBI. He was in contact with a group in Pakistan and was in the middle of arranging for travel there to be trained when the FBI stepped in. He also posted to an online journal called "Inspire" and another one called "Jihad Recollections" with articles about killing American troops. He stated that he wanted to go "operational."

You knew that though right? Because you do some serious research before you accuse the FBI of setting people up right?
 
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