lunchinlewis: Entrapment?
Entrapment!

Not sure if you're serious, but several people here seem to be. From the info at hand, I don't think this qualifies. He raised red flags when he contacted suspected terrorists and repeatedly voiced his eagerness to wage jihad. He came up with the time and place. All of this was monitored by the FBI, then they made contact. They were meticulous about allowing him to initiate the steps. All they did was supply the bogus materiel. They didn't cruise the streets of Portland, looking for Somalians, in order to entrap some 19 year old Muslim for sh*ts and giggles. This guy was serious. And they waited for him to try to detonate at least twice. Entrapment's a complex legal concept anyway, but I doubt that this defense would even make trial. If anything--again judging from the info at hand--the FBI did this painstakingly by the book. Sometimes, people are just criminals.

Big Al: How about the FBI start doing undercover operations to catch white Christian terrorists, tell them they want to bomb a Muslim community center or something. Why are kids who contact someone in Pakistan suddenly being put under surveillance? Is this the freedom everyone is talking about? Back to aristocracy we go.



Whatever it is you're trying to say needs some of this.

CalvinMorallis: It is a complex issue; but isn't the cliff notes version, "If you would have done it anyway, then it's not entrapment"?

That's the simplified philosophical cliffs notes version. Honestly, if the suspect initiated the scam, there is little to no possibility of entrapment afterward. If the FBI had taken a random population, found the youngest, most impressionable youth, taught him the importance of jihad, then told him to blow up a Christmas Tree lighting in Portland with the intention of busting him doing it, then we would have entrapment. Entrapment, in and of itself is simple. I was talking about the corresponding legal procedure.

wydok: As for the kid getting set up by the FBI rather than the FBI just supplying him, I guess it doesn't surprise me that much.

Wouldn't surprise me either, but is that what happened?

Ctrl-Alt-Del: I fail.

But at least it is amusing.

We all do it. It's 5 am, and you are lisssssstening...to Fark.

thamike: lunchinlewis: Entrapment?
Entrapment!

Not sure if you're serious,

Totally not serious.

CalvinMorallis: It's like the people who say cops parked outside of bars at night are "entrapping" them: if it's entrapment, that means you wouldn't have gotten drunk and driven home if the cops weren't there

BTW--It's not entrapment. It's...




Unsportsman-like.

Amos Quito: cristo_delenda_est: To the "Entrapment" people: How is this different from busting johns by having cops post as prostitutes?


It's almost the same thing.

Actually, if the cops gave the john a ride into town, bought him dinner, got him drunk, showed him some 'educational' porn movies, walked him to the proper street corner, gave him the money and supplied him with a big fake dick, it would be the same thing.

None of it is comparable. If you want to find a sexual equivalent, it's more like spending weeks monitoring a guy who regularly downloads child porn, then pretending to be a horny 12 year old until the guy initiates a tryst.

cristo_delenda_est: dittybopper: Maybe, maybe not. We've all ready stories about how the police zero in on a certain scenario or suspect to the detriment of others, simply because it fits with their preconceived notions. A classic example would be child abduction/murders. Police zero in on the parents and relatives because it is usually them, meanwhile Drifter McChildmolester is the real culprit.

Well generally one would expect Whitey Goebbelssen but I will wait and see what the investigation yields.

That's all I'm saying.

Sensitiveborderarea: Why is it so unlikely? The incident garners sympathy for islam from naive "infidels", and it destroyed some records which could conceivably been used against islam. False flag operations are one of the most popular stratagems of war and Islam is at war with western civilization.

My odds are on a dumbass hick.

fastfxr: I have no problem with it.
And I'm sure it achieved its intended purpose--to send a strong message to these people that they need to start policing their own.

Or a select few Americans WILL.

Yeah, localized petty arson will really hit that f*cker home.

halfof33: Amos Quito: It seems like you spend a lot of time talking about waging war against / putting bullets in people you don't like.

Sounds like you'd make a good patsy for the FBI.

What an odd, odd comment.

You seem like a farking pollyanna, naive twerp. You'd make a good car bombing victim.



Oh Hai, just ignore me!

I wouldn't call you a patsy for the FBI, but the charging the family for the bullet thing makes you sound like a Chinaman.

thamike: Amos Quito: cristo_delenda_est: To the "Entrapment" people: How is this different from busting johns by having cops post as prostitutes?


It's almost the same thing.

Actually, if the cops gave the john a ride into town, bought him dinner, got him drunk, showed him some 'educational' porn movies, walked him to the proper street corner, gave him the money and supplied him with a big fake dick, it would be the same thing.

None of it is comparable. If you want to find a sexual equivalent, it's more like spending weeks monitoring a guy who regularly downloads child porn, then pretending to be a horny 12 year old until the guy initiates a tryst.

No, because child porn is already illegal. You could bust him for that alone.

It would be more like finding someone who looks at "barely legal teens" porn sites that certify under US law that the 'models' are of legal age, then hiring a real 16 year old girl to actively solicit him for some lovin' in real life, then busting him as he puts the condom on after she strips naked.

Talking about doing something, and actually doing it, are two different things. One is perfectly legal, the other isn't. This guy was all talk and no action *UNTIL* the FBI provided him with a fake bomb. It was a crime wholly manufactured by the FBI: Take them out of the equation, and no crime was committed.

Now, it might not necessarily be 'entrapment' in the strictest legal sense of the word, but certainly if I were on that particular jury, I'd have some major misgivings about the case.

cristo_delenda_est: cristo_delenda_est: Big Al:
. No undercover agents trying to catch any white guys in terror acts, even though we see them just as capable.


BRB: Calling bullshiat.

Dang, meant to add this...

The guy was an ATF agent. We were talking about law enforcement, not the Keystone Kops.

mdalli: moops: The "people who actually love their country" are people who hold disdain for anyone not like them.

Nope. Wrong. I'm one of those people. We just wanna be left alone to live our little lives. We don't care if you're muslim or a different race or whatever. We just wanna be left alone.

People like us are continually puzzled by people who constantly blame this country for every bad thing on earth, mock its salt-of-the-earth citizens and remember every misdeed America has ever done... and then outlandishly claim to love America. Yeah.

May I just insert my own viewpoint here as someone who routinely trashes American history. It is not that I don't love the ideals of this country or how far we have progressed, it is that this country has done deplorable, horrible, ugly things both to its own people and to others along the way to that progress. And we are not yet at the point where, in this country, all people are protected equally under the law (look at DOMA for an example-- if you are gay, why even bother making up a will since it holds no legal standing in courts) or where we all have the same opportunities for success.

We've come a long way from the days of making wrist bands out of the vaginas of Indian women after massacres, and from hereditary slavery, and from when undesirables were sterilized, and illiterate immigrants' intelligence were measured by whether they drew a bowling ball in the right position in a picture.

What I really hate is the yearning for the "good old days" because, in fact, the high-minded ideals we salute were ignored just as much in this country as they are in any other country. We need to be eternally vigilant to ensure that the values we profess show through in the policies and decisions our government makes for us.

We've gotten a lot better, and that is praiseworthy. But I don't embrace everything done in this country, past or present. I look forward to the day when the statement "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" really is embraced by all Americans. That statement is perhaps the most powerful, to me. It doesn't say "born here" or "who live here." All people. Not just "those born in the Colonies." All you have to do is look to the recent legislation in Arizona and elsewhere to see how far we have yet to go.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
- Tommy Lee Jones, Men in Black