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(CNN)   You know that failed FBI-orchestrated terrorist attack the other day in Oregon? Well, some Real 'Merikans torched the suspect's mosque this morning   (religion.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 653
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24253 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Nov 2010 at 4:13 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-29 05:26:39 AM
BolloxReader:

You dont' know much about angsty teens. Having been one myself, I would have been a martyr to the cause if someone had taken me seriously. Not that I had a cause. But I would have, if I had had a cause that I believed in at the time and someone had given me a way to do something like this.


I think back to when I was a teenager and was involved in Operation Rescue, this guy who was a few years older than me and all my friends showed up one day out of nowhere and started coming to all of these events and stuff, and all of my guy friends thought he was the coolest thing ever because he was 18 or 19, in the army, wore combat boots all the time, and knew awesome stuff like the best ways to kill people and how to build bombs. My family kind of wondered if the guy might wind up the next Timothy McVeigh, but as I said, all my friends thought he was awesome and listened to everything he said.

Looking back, I can totally imagine that this guy could have gotten my friends to start bombing abortion clinics if he had been so inclined, because as I said, he'd already taught them how to blow stuff up, they hung on his every word, and they were already committed to the cause. As it turns out, he was just young and stupid, but I can totally see how easy it would have been for him to have manipulated my friends into turning into teenage terrorists if that had been his goal.

/reconnected with the guy a few years back, he's married with kids
//his wife is like, "I can't believe your parents actually let you hang out with him back then"
 
2010-11-29 05:29:04 AM
This could go one of two ways. 1. It was a small minded bigot that decided to strike out at people because of their religion and not their actions. 2. It was a fire to cover up evidence. Many arsons are to cover up crimes. Maybe there is more to this ordeal than the guy the FBI was after. It was interesting the imam saying the guy put civilians at risk. Sounds militant to me and you're telling me a guy that wears that jacket isn't suspect? Just sayin' :)
 
2010-11-29 05:30:07 AM
Why are there no threads about the wikileaks release today?
 
2010-11-29 05:31:14 AM
rynthetyn: BolloxReader:

You dont' know much about angsty teens. Having been one myself, I would have been a martyr to the cause if someone had taken me seriously. Not that I had a cause. But I would have, if I had had a cause that I believed in at the time and someone had given me a way to do something like this.

I think back to when I was a teenager and was involved in Operation Rescue, this guy who was a few years older than me and all my friends showed up one day out of nowhere and started coming to all of these events and stuff, and all of my guy friends thought he was the coolest thing ever because he was 18 or 19, in the army, wore combat boots all the time, and knew awesome stuff like the best ways to kill people and how to build bombs. My family kind of wondered if the guy might wind up the next Timothy McVeigh, but as I said, all my friends thought he was awesome and listened to everything he said.

Looking back, I can totally imagine that this guy could have gotten my friends to start bombing abortion clinics if he had been so inclined, because as I said, he'd already taught them how to blow stuff up, they hung on his every word, and they were already committed to the cause. As it turns out, he was just young and stupid, but I can totally see how easy it would have been for him to have manipulated my friends into turning into teenage terrorists if that had been his goal.

/reconnected with the guy a few years back, he's married with kids
//his wife is like, "I can't believe your parents actually let you hang out with him back then"


But the point is you didn't go the extra step and actually try to do it. For that you should be commended. For his crime, he shoudl be punished.
 
2010-11-29 05:36:01 AM
Eagle747: Why are there no threads about the wikileaks release today?

Head over to the politics tab.
 
2010-11-29 05:38:17 AM
Good.
 
2010-11-29 05:41:57 AM
miss diminutive: Eagle747: Why are there no threads about the wikileaks release today?

Head over to the politics tab.


Politics tag? Slumming it huh? What happened to the mainpage? It was a fairly big news event.
 
2010-11-29 05:42:08 AM
Bigdogdaddy: rynthetyn: BolloxReader:

You dont' know much about angsty teens. Having been one myself, I would have been a martyr to the cause if someone had taken me seriously. Not that I had a cause. But I would have, if I had had a cause that I believed in at the time and someone had given me a way to do something like this.

I think back to when I was a teenager and was involved in Operation Rescue, this guy who was a few years older than me and all my friends showed up one day out of nowhere and started coming to all of these events and stuff, and all of my guy friends thought he was the coolest thing ever because he was 18 or 19, in the army, wore combat boots all the time, and knew awesome stuff like the best ways to kill people and how to build bombs. My family kind of wondered if the guy might wind up the next Timothy McVeigh, but as I said, all my friends thought he was awesome and listened to everything he said.

Looking back, I can totally imagine that this guy could have gotten my friends to start bombing abortion clinics if he had been so inclined, because as I said, he'd already taught them how to blow stuff up, they hung on his every word, and they were already committed to the cause. As it turns out, he was just young and stupid, but I can totally see how easy it would have been for him to have manipulated my friends into turning into teenage terrorists if that had been his goal.

/reconnected with the guy a few years back, he's married with kids
//his wife is like, "I can't believe your parents actually let you hang out with him back then"

But the point is you didn't go the extra step and actually try to do it. For that you should be commended. For his crime, he shoudl be punished.


No, the point is that if the guy in my story had been an undercover FBI agent looking to build a case, he probably would have been able to convince my friends to try and bomb abortion clinics even though on their own they would never (and did never) get to that point. Just like the FBI, with the dude in Oregon, could very well have pushed a guy looking for a cause over the edge when he never would have gone there himself. I don't know if the FBI did actually push a guy who would have been harmless on his own over the edge or not, but I can see exactly how it could happen. And, given the FBI's history, I'm not willing to rule it out.
 
2010-11-29 05:47:53 AM
Bigdogdaddy: This kid's sentence (whatever is prescribed by law) ought to be tried as a hate crime. I'm sure that's what the federal prosecutors will do to whover they catch for setting the building on fire.

Kinda hard for it to be a hate crime when the hate in question was part of the entrapment
 
2010-11-29 05:50:18 AM
Eagle747: Politics tag? Slumming it huh? What happened to the mainpage? It was a fairly big news event.

Oh? Is this a farkback thread?

Where are my titties on every page, Drew?!!!
 
2010-11-29 05:50:42 AM
Eagle747: miss diminutive: Eagle747: Why are there no threads about the wikileaks release today?

Head over to the politics tab.

Politics tag? Slumming it huh? What happened to the mainpage? It was a fairly big news event.


I was surprised that there wasn't a story about it on the mainpage as well.

/it's a conspiracy?
 
2010-11-29 06:06:46 AM
Whether or not the kid was "manipulated," hopefully we can agree on one thing: No actual terror network was involved.

This kid is not so much a young Osama Bin Laden as he is an older Kip Kinkel.

For some reason this point seems to get lost on people who read the headlines. They have this vision of a terror cell plotting the death of Portlanders, and the FBI swooping in at the last minute to save the day, a la Jack Bauer. It's a bunch of horse shiat. Nobody was ever in danger.

This had nothing to do with the war on terror. More like the war on angsty teenagers.
 
2010-11-29 06:10:53 AM
Good job, Oregon. Now it's a story about vengeful meth-head hillbillies instead of about an attempted mass murder.
 
2010-11-29 06:12:42 AM
Cats_Lie: Whether or not the kid was "manipulated," hopefully we can agree on one thing: No actual terror network was involved.

This kid is not so much a young Osama Bin Laden as he is an older Kip Kinkel.

For some reason this point seems to get lost on people who read the headlines. They have this vision of a terror cell plotting the death of Portlanders, and the FBI swooping in at the last minute to save the day, a la Jack Bauer. It's a bunch of horse shiat. Nobody was ever in danger.

This had nothing to do with the war on terror. More like the war on angsty teenagers.


if your last name was kinkel and your parents named you kip you'd be dickish too.
 
2010-11-29 06:13:48 AM
So what. About time someone started burning the Mosques down here. They riot and kill christians all the farking time and burn churches in egypt and other "civilized" muslim nations so why should we not do it back? Violent religious extremists should be removed from the world gene pool, this includes islam. It has never been at peace and never will be at peace with the western world.
 
2010-11-29 06:15:03 AM
What are a few dozen deaths in comparison to total control over 309M idiots?
 
2010-11-29 06:16:31 AM
At least the FBI used a fake bomb this time.

They weren't so smart last time. (new window)
 
2010-11-29 06:16:40 AM
The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: You know, it kind of makes one wonder who the real terrorists are. It really does.

Especially when our own President has so many ties to a terrorist group that bombed government buildings and killed a few people. We really can't win.
 
2010-11-29 06:22:05 AM
brainiac-dumdum: I bet some churches are glad torching places of worship wasn't de rigueur when eric rudolph and scott roeder successfully killed others in the name of god.

I highly doubt there is any Church that is happy in the wake of a house of worship being torched. Those trying to compare the two crimes and thinking this torching some how means American's deserve what they get or what not. Try comparing the number of non-involved people cheering the action vs. those condemning it in both categories and I'll bet you'd find far more people cheering a successful bomb detonation on America over Americans cheering this stupid crime on.

Personally I hope whomever did this finds the full force of the law coming down on their arse, as well as Bubba behind the bars.
 
2010-11-29 06:30:23 AM
atomicmask: So what. About time someone started burning the Mosques down here. They riot and kill christians all the farking time and burn churches in egypt and other "civilized" muslim nations so why should we not do it back? Violent religious extremists should be removed from the world gene pool, this includes islam. It has never been at peace and never will be at peace with the western world.

Why should we not do it back? Are you seriously asking that question?

Because, you corzunbora moron, we live in a country that demands religious tolerance, and "so and so somewhere else does it" is never valid justification for such an action.
 
2010-11-29 06:31:32 AM
Nemo's Brother: The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: You know, it kind of makes one wonder who the real terrorists are. It really does.

Especially when our own President has so many ties to a terrorist group that bombed government buildings and killed a few people. We really can't win.


...but enough about the bush-al qaeda ties....
 
2010-11-29 06:31:39 AM
Nemo's Brother: Especially when our own President has so many ties to a terrorist group that bombed government buildings and killed a few people. We really can't win.

Not to mention our last president who had us invade a country on a lie. Terrorist action if I've ever heard of one. Oh, and derpity derpidy dooo.
 
2010-11-29 06:33:09 AM
I wonder if the owners of the mosque could sue the FBI for primping up their headlines, defamation, inciting the masses to burn it, etc?
 
2010-11-29 06:35:40 AM
Jorn the Younger: atomicmask: So what. About time someone started burning the Mosques down here. They riot and kill christians all the farking time and burn churches in egypt and other "civilized" muslim nations so why should we not do it back? Violent religious extremists should be removed from the world gene pool, this includes islam. It has never been at peace and never will be at peace with the western world.

Why should we not do it back? Are you seriously asking that question?

Because, you corzunbora moron, we live in a country that demands religious tolerance, and "so and so somewhere else does it" is never valid justification for such an action.


Actually our country does not demand religious tolerance at all, you doucheknuckle. We never have had to tolerate violent religious institutions and we never will, and islam fits that bill perfectly. Where you pacifistic retards get this "we gotta tolerate violent arseholes in our borders" is beyond me.
 
2010-11-29 06:36:57 AM
Corvallis. Sadly I am not surprised.
 
2010-11-29 06:39:04 AM
atomicmask: Jorn the Younger: atomicmask: So what. About time someone started burning the Mosques down here. They riot and kill christians all the farking time and burn churches in egypt and other "civilized" muslim nations so why should we not do it back? Violent religious extremists should be removed from the world gene pool, this includes islam. It has never been at peace and never will be at peace with the western world.

Why should we not do it back? Are you seriously asking that question?

Because, you corzunbora moron, we live in a country that demands religious tolerance, and "so and so somewhere else does it" is never valid justification for such an action.

Actually our country does not demand religious tolerance at all, you doucheknuckle. We never have had to tolerate violent religious institutions and we never will, and islam fits that bill perfectly. Where you pacifistic retards get this "we gotta tolerate violent arseholes in our borders" is beyond me.


yeah, we ought to arrest the tea partiers!
 
2010-11-29 06:41:30 AM
atomicmask: Actually our country does not demand religious tolerance at all, you doucheknuckle. We never have had to tolerate violent religious institutions and we never will, and islam fits that bill perfectly. Where you pacifistic retards get this "we gotta tolerate violent arseholes in our borders" is beyond me.

so what you're saying is, we need to identify the categories of people who are a problem, and deal with the categorically?
 
2010-11-29 06:42:47 AM
Cats_Lie: I wonder if the owners of the mosque could sue the FBI for primping up their headlines, defamation, inciting the masses to burn it, etc?

I would imagine there's a legal portion called "Cause".

From the half assed research I have attempted using my Lawyer, Mr. Google, he told me that there are things protecting people from cause. Such as this hypothetical situation: A guy in a supermarket gets angry and confrontational with a clerk. The clerk pushes the man out of his way. The man, a hemophiliac, suffers prolonged bleeding from this. This is an unforeseeable cause. A remote cause is when someone gets hit by a truck and goes to the hospital and suffers further injury there by malpractice.

I would imagine, at best, this is remote cause.

/not a lawyer
 
2010-11-29 06:43:23 AM
log_jammin: so what you're saying is, we need to identify the categories of people who are a problem, and deal with the categorically?

Accidentally. That whole thing.
 
2010-11-29 06:43:38 AM
9 years ago, some Muslims killed thousands of innocet Americans because they were upset with things some not-so-innocent Americans were doing. It's the same thing.
 
2010-11-29 06:45:09 AM
Ender's: log_jammin: so what you're saying is, we need to identify the categories of people who are a problem, and deal with the categorically?

Accidentally. That whole thing.


god damn it....
 
2010-11-29 06:45:10 AM
See, if this was an ordinary white kid, who told an undercover FBI agent "I want to blow up my school", he would end up having a serious conversation with the FBI about making threats online and that would be the end of that.

But because he's a Muslim who said "I want to blow up infidels" all of a sudden the FBI is giving him money and making the bomb for him.

It pretty obvious that even if this doesn't meet the technical legal definition of entrapment, it's pretty obvious what's going on here.
 
2010-11-29 06:46:01 AM
I'm shocked and amazed that a liberal would burn down a mosque. More of that religious tolerance I've heard so much about.

/meant as a troll
//liberals have suggested for years that if the state is red, there must not be a single liberal in said state
 
2010-11-29 06:50:25 AM
Annndddd so it starts.
 
2010-11-29 06:51:09 AM
GaryPDX: This whole deal stinks of manufacture. This kid had no contact with anyone but the FBI. They manufactured the whole thing and led him down the path. They gave him money to pay his rent. This kid is a victim of manufactured thought crime.

they did the same thing with those kids in Fla and a few others. I suppose when the real terrorists are laying low they have to manufacture a few from time to time to persuade public will.

Chertoff's gotta eat....
 
2010-11-29 06:51:37 AM
skipjack: I'm shocked and amazed that a liberal would burn down a mosque. More of that religious tolerance I've heard so much about.

/meant as a troll
//liberals have suggested for years that if the state is red, there must not be a single liberal in said state


Thank God it's only the liberals!
 
2010-11-29 06:53:27 AM
atomicmask: Violent religious extremists should be removed from the world gene pool, this includes islam.

How is a person who burns down a mosque not considered a violent religious extremist by you?
 
2010-11-29 06:53:54 AM
Great.

1) a fringe of group A attempts to commit an act of terror on group B.

2) a fringe of group B therefore belives that all of group A are terrorists.

3) group B's fringe commits an act of terror on group A, causing

4) a fringe of group A to believe that all of group B are terrorists, causing...

5) Animated Disney animals to sing "It's the circle of Deaaaaath... "
 
2010-11-29 06:54:48 AM
I blame Van der Lubbe...
 
2010-11-29 06:56:34 AM
The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: You know, it kind of makes one wonder who the real terrorists are. It really does.

Burning an empty building vs plotting to blow up a crowd of people.

No, I'm pretty sure I know who the arsonists are and who the terrorists are.
 
2010-11-29 06:56:51 AM
dudemanbro: log_jammin: I don't even know where to begin.

I think I'd start with these guys (nsf rational thought). Just a theory.


That´s definitely NSFW, too. I don´t want my work web history to have that.
 
2010-11-29 07:00:00 AM
The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: You know, it kind of makes one wonder who the real terrorists are. It really does.

Really? How can you say that?

Fox news said yesterday they were true Americans doing what real Americans would do back in 1800's.

That's unpatriotic to say something like that. I should turn you into the FBI.

 
2010-11-29 07:02:48 AM
GAT_00: Really? The guy who didn't hurt anyone and never was a threat because he didn't have a bomb was worse than the people who destroyed an actual building full of people who did nothing wrong?

He destroyed a room in an empty building.

I would say the intention behind tossing a firebomb into an empty building is far worse than trying to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd.

But I guess to you tying to burning a muslim building is far worse than trying to blow up a crowd of people.
 
2010-11-29 07:04:20 AM
liam76: He destroyed a room in an empty building.

I would say the intention behind tossing a firebomb into an empty building is far worse than trying to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd.

But I guess to you tying to burning a muslim building is far worse than trying to blow up a crowd of people.


Gonna Fark question you. You ready?

So if he blew up someone who wasn't supposed to be there, that's ok with you?
 
2010-11-29 07:05:01 AM
I'm highly suspicious of this arson. I don't recall it ever being reported where the guy attended before being arrested by the FBI. And early Sunday morning seems an odd time to set a fire if you are inclined to burn a mosque because you are angry at Muslims.

Not saying for sure, but notice how even the reporter seems a little suspicious in the article and tosses a lot of qualifying words into that report. Whoever commits this arson should be prosecuted, but it seems that as many supposed vicims of these hate crimes commit the offense as the other side does.
 
2010-11-29 07:05:13 AM
liam76: GAT_00: Really? The guy who didn't hurt anyone and never was a threat because he didn't have a bomb was worse than the people who destroyed an actual building full of people who did nothing wrong?

He destroyed a room in an empty building.

I would say the intention behind tossing a firebomb into an empty building is far worse than trying to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd.

But I guess to you tying to burning a muslim building is far worse than trying to blow up a crowd of people.


Ahh, so you know it was a single person? The OSPD may want a few words with you then....
 
2010-11-29 07:06:19 AM
Fireclown: Good job, Oregon. Now it's a story about vengeful meth-head hillbillies instead of about an attempted mass murder.

I used to teach English to foreign students at Oregon State University, which is near that Islamic center. More than one of my students (mostly Japanese) was attacked, usually while simply walking down the street. In almost every case the attackers were teens or twains shouting racist slogans along with threats to leave the country or else. You have to understand that, unless one is within party range of the university, Corvallis is generally a quiet town. You also have to understand that it's sandwiched between the unemployed loggers and the depressed farmers. Vengeful meth-head hillbillies? More like disgruntled, out-of-work rednecks.

/The only thing more disgusting than this attack is some of the comments posted under the article.
 
2010-11-29 07:07:56 AM
moodyfark: Vengeful meth-head hillbillies? More like disgruntled, out-of-work rednecks.

Meth? In Corvallis? It's more li... oh who are we kidding.
 
2010-11-29 07:09:08 AM
"We have made it quite clear that the FBI will not tolerate any kind of retribution or attack on the Muslim community," said Arthur Balizan, special agent in charge of the FBI in Oregon

See that guys?

The Terrorists, they have won.

 
2010-11-29 07:09:46 AM
Ender's: liam76: He destroyed a room in an empty building.

I would say the intention behind tossing a firebomb into an empty building is far worse than trying to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd.

But I guess to you tying to burning a muslim building is far worse than trying to blow up a crowd of people.

Gonna Fark question you. You ready?

So if he blew up someone who wasn't supposed to be there, that's ok with you?


No, its not ok.

but the fact is a guy lobbing a molotov cocktail at an empty building in the middle of the night is far less heinous than a guy who tried to set off a bomb in a public place filled with people.
 
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