Well, someone had to get the Reds to the postseason. It sure as shiat wasn't Dusty.

Cool story time:

A buddy of mine played in a poker tourney the Reds hold every year as part of RedsFest. If you knocked out a player, he signed his jersey and gave it to you. My buddy got Votto's jersey his rookie year with the Reds. He's a Pirates fan, so he gave me the jersey. I think its value may have just gone up a bit!

Both deserve it fully, but this FA offseason seems like a bunch of whiny old men who want more money than their worth.

downstairs: Same with the AL MVP, Hamilton announced this morning...

Dallas is a small market? Hamilton gets little exposure??

Quiet CANADIAN guy, no less?

Or is that simply implied by quiet? I dont want to raise a fuss here.

homarjr: downstairs: Same with the AL MVP, Hamilton announced this morning...

Dallas is a small market? Hamilton gets little exposure??

Crack dens are notoriously poorly-lit.

Are you kidding me!? This guy barely made the All-Star team! We need to let the fans vote!

Rapmaster2000: Are you kidding me!? This guy barely made the All-Star team! We need to let the fans vote!

Yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it, Phillies manager! What a moron.

/and Colon Cowhead, too

There were three stand-out players in the NL. Votto, Pujols, and Carlos Gonzalez. You can throw Adrian Gonzalez into the mix because of how much the team around him sucked, if you like.

Only one of these players was on a playoff team. There's your MVP. If anyone's shocked by this, you're dumb.

Everyone likes to talk about Hamilton's demons, but Joey has had his own struggles since the passing of his father a couple years back. He's a damn good man, and I'm sure he's done his father very, very proud. I wish there were more Votto's in pro sports.

An interview with Joey after his DL stint.

downstairs: I'd say the Texas Rangers are a small-market team. Otherwise why was everyone biatching and "worried" about ratings.

The Phillies were once a "small market" team too.

I am happy with both choices.

Cool. A former Billings Mustang

Joey Votto made only $550,000 this season.

Arbitration eligible in 2011, which should put him at 7-8 million or so, right?

Lots of derp in this thread.

IAmRight: jackiepaper: Because Texas prefers mindless 'Merican sports like football

Baseball is the most mindless sport there is.

Baseball is the most intellectual sport in America. It's our most literary sport as well. Both of these things explain why it's becoming less popular among Americans. There are plenty of ways to criticize baseball, but calling it "mindless" only highlights your ignorance of the game, or your own mental deficiencies.

Joey Votto was a deserving candidate, guy was just amazing this year. I have no beef with either the AL or NL MVP winners.

In fact, this was a really uncontroversial year for awards, if you ask me. Then again, I'm a Giants diehard who thinks Buster Posey absolutely deserved the RoY. I understand Jason Heyward made a decent argument for himself.

Cabrera deserved the AL MVP. I like Hamilton, but with him out of the lineup for an extended period of time(most of September,) the team didn't miss a beat. Cabrera's was the more outstanding year, and he was more important to his team. He was first in RBI and OBP. He was second in batting average, slugging pct., runs scored, and total bases. He was third in home runs. That's the MVP to me.

well, at least now the reds have SOMETHING to show from this season..

/ducks

Dafatone: There were three stand-out players in the NL. Votto, Pujols, and Carlos Gonzalez. You can throw Adrian Gonzalez into the mix because of how much the team around him sucked, if you like.

Only one of these players was on a playoff team. There's your MVP. If anyone's shocked by this, you're dumb.

If you really think that is how they have historically chosen MVPs...you are dumb.

I think Reg Season MVP should be required to play for a playoff team.

RockNStroll: Cabrera deserved the AL MVP. I like Hamilton, but with him out of the lineup for an extended period of time(most of September,) the team didn't miss a beat. Cabrera's was the more outstanding year, and he was more important to his team. He was first in RBI and OBP. He was second in batting average, slugging pct., runs scored, and total bases. He was third in home runs. That's the MVP to me.

He wasn't on a playoff team and he didn't hit 50+ homers. So he wasn't gonna win. It does suck, and he clearly had a better year. Though Hamilton adds more defensively at a tougher position. On the third hand, Miguel'shiatting in a worse lineup and a tougher hitting park.

bobbarker02: Baseball is the most intellectual sport in America. It's our most literary sport as well. Both of these things explain why it's becoming less popular among Americans. There are plenty of ways to criticize baseball, but calling it "mindless" only highlights your ignorance of the game, or your own mental deficiencies.

I assume you mean intellectual in the fact that the players and fans spend most of the game standing/sitting around, thinking about the very rare action instead of actually participating. Perhaps you are referring to the REM sleep so many people in the stands are caught on camera having. I know my mind boggles at the number of hamstring injuries players get running to first because of cold muscles thanks to doing jack squat for activity for hours.

And Cargo got hosed. Voters obviously forgot where teams stash the most immobile defensive players.

downstairs:
I'd say the Texas Rangers are a small-market team. Otherwise why was everyone biatching and "worried" about ratings.

The Rangers play in the largest single team market and the 4th largest market in MLB behind New York, LA, and Chicago. Hardly a small market team.

RockNStroll: Cabrera deserved the AL MVP.

Yep, Cabby got screwed.

Funzo: bobbarker02: Baseball is the most intellectual sport in America. It's our most literary sport as well. Both of these things explain why it's becoming less popular among Americans. There are plenty of ways to criticize baseball, but calling it "mindless" only highlights your ignorance of the game, or your own mental deficiencies.

I assume you mean intellectual in the fact that the players and fans spend most of the game standing/sitting around, thinking about the very rare action instead of actually participating. Perhaps you are referring to the REM sleep so many people in the stands are caught on camera having. I know my mind boggles at the number of hamstring injuries players get running to first because of cold muscles thanks to doing jack squat for activity for hours.

And Cargo got hosed. Voters obviously forgot where teams stash the most immobile defensive players.


2/10

Ah, yes-the quaint little village of Cincinnati, Ohio. Me and the missus spend the summers up there.

IAmRight: bobbarker02: Baseball is the most intellectual sport in America. It's our most literary sport as well. Both of these things explain why it's becoming less popular among Americans. There are plenty of ways to criticize baseball, but calling it "mindless" only highlights your ignorance of the game, or your own mental deficiencies.

Calling a game of one-on-one matchups "intellectual" while a coordination of 11 players at a time against 11 players at a time is "mindless" shows just how stupid baseball slobberers are.

Gee, you have to move pitches around and change them based on what a hitter's strengths and weaknesses are! When pitchers are looking less effective, replace them with a better hitter! Try for a steal with 2 outs and a good hitter at the plate, since if you get thrown out, you get the guy another chance at the plate to start the next inning! Man, it's so difficult!

More players on each side equals greater complexity, got it. That isn't the kind of laughable logical fallacy I'd expect a football fan to make at all, nope. Definitely isn't.

Look, on the field, football is all about physicality. Whatever thought goes into the game takes place by guys in sweatshirts and headsets, not the meatheads who spend the whole game hitting their meathead counterpart.

This "football vs. baseball" debate is so boring. I'm perfectly happy acknowledging that football is more popular and makes more money, because the reasons are lamentable features of our modern society that I'm glad baseball doesn't epitomize. Short attention spans, anti-intellectualism, disrespect for the opposition, a blood lust; these are the foundations of football fandom.

srhp29: Dafatone: There were three stand-out players in the NL. Votto, Pujols, and Carlos Gonzalez. You can throw Adrian Gonzalez into the mix because of how much the team around him sucked, if you like.

Only one of these players was on a playoff team. There's your MVP. If anyone's shocked by this, you're dumb.

If you really think that is how they have historically chosen MVPs...you are dumb.

I think Reg Season MVP should be required to play for a playoff team.

Okay. Here's a list of MVPs:

Wikipedia (new window)

Point out the most recent non-playoff MVP that didn't have a year heads above the rest of the league. So, A-Rod winning in Texas or Bonds in SF don't count.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but you're going to have to go back to at least the 90s. Unless you meant "historically" as in "once upon a time," in which case no, what went on in the 1960s has no relevance to who wins MVPs today.

Funzo: I assume you mean intellectual in the fact that the players and fans spend most of the game standing/sitting around, thinking about the very rare action instead of actually participating.

Fun fact, players are just "standing around" for about 49 minutes of a 60-minute NFL game.

Citation provided (new window).

heh look at these nubs

hockey is better than both baseball AND football

Dafatone: srhp29: Dafatone: There were three stand-out players in the NL. Votto, Pujols, and Carlos Gonzalez. You can throw Adrian Gonzalez into the mix because of how much the team around him sucked, if you like.

Only one of these players was on a playoff team. There's your MVP. If anyone's shocked by this, you're dumb.

If you really think that is how they have historically chosen MVPs...you are dumb.

I think Reg Season MVP should be required to play for a playoff team.

Okay. Here's a list of MVPs:

Wikipedia (new window)

Point out the most recent non-playoff MVP that didn't have a year heads above the rest of the league. So, A-Rod winning in Texas or Bonds in SF don't count.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but you're going to have to go back to at least the 90s. Unless you meant "historically" as in "once upon a time," in which case no, what went on in the 1960s has no relevance to who wins MVPs today.

There is an award for being the best hitter...being an MVP should be about a combination of numbers and you helped get your team into some playoff games in October...otherwise, how farking "valuable" could you have possibly been.

The best example of ridiculous "MVP" selection is Andre Dawson on a last place Cubs team. That was years ago, but easily the worst that I can think of.

Funzo: And Cargo got hosed. Voters obviously forgot where teams stash the most immobile defensive players.

Carlos Gonzalez, Coors, 2010: .380/.425/.737
Carlos Gonzalez, everywhere else, 2010: .289/.322/.453
NL outfielders as a whole, 2010: .264/.334/.428

Take him out of Coors and he's a league-average outfield bat. As far as I'm concerned, that's game/set/match against Carlos Gonzalez for MVP. See also: Castilla, Vinny.

srhp29: There is an award for being the best hitter...being an MVP should be about a combination of numbers and you helped get your team into some playoff games in October...otherwise, how farking "valuable" could you have possibly been.

Yes, let's all penalize Albert Pujols and Adrian Gonzalez for merely keeping their team in the playoff hunt most of the season instead of crashing and burning.

They're "valuable" in the sense that they gave their fans a chance to watch meaningful baseball in August and September. How dare they not singlehandedly win every game?

srhp29: There is an award for being the best hitter...being an MVP should be about a combination of numbers and you helped get your team into some playoff games in October...otherwise, how farking "valuable" could you have possibly been.

What's annoying to me is that it's no longer about value, just being the best player on a playoff team.

The Yankees don't make the playoffs (or at least, don't win the division) without Cano.

The Rangers win the division without Hamilton, because seriously, who else was going to win it?

Now, I think the award should just go to the best player. NBA mvp just goes to the best player (though having the best player alone makes you a pretty good team). Same in the NFL (though there's the offensive/defensive split).

But if it's going to be about "value" instead of the best player, then analyze value. Best player on a playoff team is just lazy.

/Also, take Jimmy Rollins' 2007 MVP and give it to Matt Holliday.

chimp_ninja: srhp29: There is an award for being the best hitter...being an MVP should be about a combination of numbers and you helped get your team into some playoff games in October...otherwise, how farking "valuable" could you have possibly been.

Yes, let's all penalize Albert Pujols and Adrian Gonzalez for merely keeping their team in the playoff hunt most of the season instead of crashing and burning.

They're "valuable" in the sense that they gave their fans a chance to watch meaningful baseball in August and September. How dare they not singlehandedly win every game?

I can't wait to see Adrian out of Petco and in a real lineup. Though I've seen arguments that the Padres can hit, and Petco's just that oppressive.

chimp_ninja: Take him out of Coors and he's a league-average outfield bat. As far as I'm concerned, that's game/set/match against Carlos Gonzalez for MVP. See also: Castilla, Vinny.

Vinny was a juicity juicer and still only hit for shiat when he was with the Rockies.

He hit 197 HR over a five year stretch in CO. Then he hit 65 HR between 2000 and 2003 (4 seasons)...never hitting more than 25 in one season.

Back to CO in 2005 and bang...back up to 35.

The next season, his final...he hit 12 in 549 ABs.

Anyone that tries to ever make an argument that ANY Colorado players stats aren't at least a little and in many cases grossly inflated due to where they play their homegames is probably just trollin...

Dafatone: RockNStroll: Cabrera deserved the AL MVP. I like Hamilton, but with him out of the lineup for an extended period of time(most of September,) the team didn't miss a beat. Cabrera's was the more outstanding year, and he was more important to his team. He was first in RBI and OBP. He was second in batting average, slugging pct., runs scored, and total bases. He was third in home runs. That's the MVP to me.

He wasn't on a playoff team and he didn't hit 50+ homers. So he wasn't gonna win. It does suck, and he clearly had a better year. Though Hamilton adds more defensively at a tougher position. On the third hand, Miguel'shiatting in a worse lineup and a tougher hitting park.

I'd throw Evan Longoria into the AL conversation. He hit .294/.372/.507, runs the bases well, and played 151 games of outstanding defense at a mid-demand position. You could make a similar argument for Adrian Beltre. Cabrera had a fantastic year at the plate, but he's a below-average defender at the easiest position in the field.

I'd go with Hamilton over any of the above, but not by a wide margin, and in no small part due to Hamilton's defensive contributions. The main ding on him is that he missed 29 games, but given the similar batting lines, I'd take 130 games of Hamilton playing CF over 150 games of Miguel Cabrera "playing" 1B.

Note to Cabrera: Put down the nachos. It will be worth several million dollars to you during your next contract negotiation if you at least look like a guy who came up as a 3B.

srhp29: chimp_ninja: Take him out of Coors and he's a league-average outfield bat. As far as I'm concerned, that's game/set/match against Carlos Gonzalez for MVP. See also: Castilla, Vinny.

Vinny was a juicity juicer and still only hit for shiat when he was with the Rockies.

He hit 197 HR over a five year stretch in CO. Then he hit 65 HR between 2000 and 2003 (4 seasons)...never hitting more than 25 in one season.

Back to CO in 2005 and bang...back up to 35.

The next season, his final...he hit 12 in 549 ABs.

Anyone that tries to ever make an argument that ANY Colorado players stats aren't at least a little and in many cases grossly inflated due to where they play their homegames is probably just trollin...

In 1997, Larry Walker won the MVP. His home/away OPS split was pretty even, 1.169/1.176. So there's that.

In 1999, he led the league in OBP and SLG. His home/away OPS split was 1.410/.894. Jaysus.

Dafatone: In 1997, Larry Walker won the MVP. His home/away OPS split was pretty even, 1.169/1.176. So there's that.

That just means his home should have been lower though :)

Dafatone: chimp_ninja: srhp29: There is an award for being the best hitter...being an MVP should be about a combination of numbers and you helped get your team into some playoff games in October...otherwise, how farking "valuable" could you have possibly been.

Yes, let's all penalize Albert Pujols and Adrian Gonzalez for merely keeping their team in the playoff hunt most of the season instead of crashing and burning.

They're "valuable" in the sense that they gave their fans a chance to watch meaningful baseball in August and September. How dare they not singlehandedly win every game?

I can't wait to see Adrian out of Petco and in a real lineup. Though I've seen arguments that the Padres can hit, and Petco's just that oppressive.

Here's an easy comparison:
Adrian Gonzalez, road, 2010: .315/.402/.578
Albert Pujols, road, 2010: .291/.392/.599

Very similar batters. (I picked the Pujols road numbers because nearly all players play a little worse when on the road. Travel is hard.)

The difference is that Pujols hits in a fairly neutral ballpark, so people get a fair representation of just how amazing he is.

I think Pujols is the best hitter of his generation. His career at Petco? .274/.370/.548. Excellent, but if he did that every year he'd be about as famous as... Adrian Gonzalez.

Ken Tremendous on Adrian Gonzalez: "You know who's overlooked? Adrian farking Gonzalez. Nobody in the world outside of Adrian Gonzalez's immediate family has any idea he even exists, much less that he is one of the very best hitters in the world. A reporter recently asked Yorvit Torrealba to talk about how good Adrian Gonzalez has been for the Pads this year, and Torrealba said, "There is no one on our team by that name. You are mistaken. Perhaps you mean to ask about David Eckstein?" Then he directed the reporter over to a velvet-roped-off area down the left field line where David Eckstein was standing on a giant lazy susan, like a 20-foot Bowrider at a boat show, rotating slowly as thousands of screaming journalists took his picture so they could say they once got the chance to see the great David Eckstein in person. And while this was happening, Adrian Gonzalez, who has a .922 OPS hitting in farking Petco every night, was outside gnawing on discarded chicken wings in a dumpster because he doesn't even get paid for playing baseball, because nobody knows who he is. That's a true story, people."

Ken Tremendous is still writing a little?!?!

Hatguy died!?!?

My world is blown.

/a friend of mine is distantly related to hatguy, surprised I didn't hear about this.

//and yeah, Adrian's the man.

tuffsnake: Subby sounds like they're from fly over country

looks up at sky, yep

/and fat

looks down at gut, yep


When you're right, you're right.