SJKebab: Following the chain of logic, it's now fine to use a condom with your wife so long as you give her some money for the groceries when you're done.

Hey, it's progress

I had a similar thought, going back to the old saw about how marriage is prostitution. :)

So wrap up, me hearties!

SJKebab: Following the chain of logic, it's now fine to use a condom with your wife so long as you give her some money for the groceries when you're done.

You don't?

Aidan:
SJKebab: Following the chain of logic, it's now fine to use a condom with your wife so long as you give her some money for the groceries when you're done.

Hey, it's progress

I understand the dilemma, but I usually just leave a quarter on her tummy. That way I don't feel like I took advantage of her.

And nobody believed me in the original post when I pointed out that the pointy hat guys statement said nothing about gay prostitutes, but referred to male prostitutes (new window).

But noooooo, It had to be about gays didn't it.

"Progress," my ass. What's the reasoning? "Well, you're whores, so you're already going to Hell - at the very least, try not to infect anyone else with your well-deserved ailment?" Do you honestly think God actually told the Pope, "hey, lighten up - they're homos. Let 'em use skins."

Fark the Vatican. It takes them a century to catch up on science, but not before they spend that century demonizing the science and destroying the scientists.

Oh, that makes it okay then!

It usually takes the Catholic Church anywhere from 300-600 years to affect a policy change. We just recently heard an apology to the Galilei family, after all. So a change of this magnitude mere decades after a good way was identified to block the spread of a serious pestilence highlights indicates that they're taking this really farking seriously.

The moral lesson we can learn from this is that it's okay for Catholics do what you think is the right thing even if current dogma says 'no'. In 600 years, you'll be posthumously absolved.

I think most Catholics wait longer in line in Purgatory anyway.

OK, that's progress. But where - I ask, does the Holy Father stand on the Cleveland Steamer?

innereardistortion:
The moral lesson we can learn from this is that it's okay for Catholics do what you think is the right thing even if current dogma says 'no'. In 600 years, you'll be posthumously absolved.

I think most Catholics wait longer in line in Purgatory anyway.

According to one Mr. T Pratchett, you end up in the afterlife that you think you deserve. This is why it's prudent to shoot missionaries on sight.

In other news, people are still stupid enough to actually listen to the Pope.

/ex-Catholic
//Got out of that mess 10 years ago.
///No intentions of going back.

Catholics? Crossbacks, as worthless as the jews, but they don't burn as easy.

/pope sucks
//you knew that
///these slashies be nice, I'm drunk.

imgod2u: To this day it boggles my mind how that anachronistic cult is not only still around but still very much relevant in a modern world.

The Baptists, the Lutherans, hell, even the Mormons I can understand but....seriously. How blatantly self-contradictory is a dude with a giant city-state all to himself, a staff made of gold, and a social view matched only by that of Pharaoh telling you to follow the teachings of Jesus.

It's Paul's religion now, man. Jesus, wherever that good man is, is probably chewing betel and talking about how people should be a little nicer to each other.

HotSalsaZoot: Catholics? Crossbacks, as worthless as the jews, but they don't burn as easy.

/pope sucks
//you knew that
///these slashies be nice, I'm drunk.

Silly, you are not supposed to burn Catholics. You are supposed to crucify them. Sure they hang around for a few days, but they really seem to appreciate being made to suffer like their dead dog. (Err I mean dead god.)

Surly_Duff: a step in the right direction?


Twenty years ago my mother-in-law-to-be berated me for leading her son into sin by getting him to buy and wear condoms. Nevermind that we were both teens and he was two and a half years older than me. It was all black and white for her - they were catholics, and condoms were Satan's balloons.

That thought still boggles my mind today. I wish I could hear what she would have to say about this conditional acceptance of condoms by the Pope. No doubt it would utilize the word "whore" mumbled in an undertone.

So it had nothing to do with the fact that she didn't want her teenage son having sex? It was 100% about the condoms?

There is no reason for any married couple to use condoms. There are much better birth control options.

Aside from questions surrounding whether he existed in the first place, I doubt Jesus is going to come back just for the simple reason that there will still be idiots fighting over who's flavor of Christianity is the "right" one.

To me personally, Jesus is about as real as Robin Hood. Sure, there are many stories about a savior character, but I see it more as an archetype like how Robin Hood represents the very beginnings of the middle classes. Was there some guy roaming around with a bunch of followers talking about how to be nice to each other? Sure. There were probably several.

Did he sacrifice himself to himself because of someone dooming future generations to eternal torment for eating an apple? Probably not. Does it still make an interesting story to create a horde of overzealous religious fanatics? Absolutely.

willicus: There is no reason for any married couple to use condoms. There are much better birth control options.

This is only my personal opinion, but condoms are one of the best methods that do not carry other potential side-effects (unless you're allergic to them of course!). The Pill was not good for me in a big way, IUDs seemed utterly scary, rhythm method laughably useless, diaphram required planning and seemed a bit too 'personal' if you catch my drift, and sterilization was too permanent.

Aidan: willicus: There is no reason for any married couple to use condoms. There are much better birth control options.

This is only my personal opinion, but condoms are one of the best methods that do not carry other potential side-effects (unless you're allergic to them of course!). The Pill was not good for me in a big way, IUDs seemed utterly scary, rhythm method laughably useless, diaphram required planning and seemed a bit too 'personal' if you catch my drift, and sterilization was too permanent.

I'm just getting snipped when I get the money. I figure that if I really want a kid after that, I can just adopt. I see no point in adding to the population if there are too many of us around as is.

oroku_saki:
I'm just getting snipped when I get the money. I figure that if I really want a kid after that, I can just adopt. I see no point in adding to the population if there are too many of us around as is.

Amen!

/Tubal. Yay! :)

Listening.

Ha ha ha

How convenient that the Pope receives revelations just in time to let his faith remain at least slightly culturally relevant

Christianity is a major reason AIDS is so rampant in Africa. There is a correlation between the amount of the population that is Christian (mainly Catholic) and the amount of the population infected with HIV. Just another reason religion is stupid and maybe one day we can evolve past it.

Sad that people still listen to an organization that is just now entering the 18th century. Condoms are not and have never been evil. It is not a woman's obligation to get teen-pregnant every time she gets her pearl polished. Stop listening to decrepit old men who either have never been laid, or at least not by an adult woman, who are members of a cult of guilt, suffering, sin, and death.

Aidan: willicus: There is no reason for any married couple to use condoms. There are much better birth control options.

This is only my personal opinion, but condoms are one of the best methods that do not carry other potential side-effects (unless you're allergic to them of course!). The Pill was not good for me in a big way, IUDs seemed utterly scary, rhythm method laughably useless, diaphram required planning and seemed a bit too 'personal' if you catch my drift, and sterilization was too permanent.

Mrs. willicus has an IUD. Yes, getting it put in sucks, but she says it's totally worth it.

/YMMV

what about priests?

Cool. Keep pushing, guys. Every inch they retreat is a forward leap for civilization.

They really shouldn't change their views on such things like this and the babies who die in abortion in purgatory thing.

It seems weak when they change their position, it is almost like they kind of make these things up and are not really guided by some higher power.

Now I can't believe anything they say. :)

There's that whole Mary Magdalene thing. Did Jesus use rubbers with her?

/ducks

Those remarks apply to all women? The Vatican really said that?

No, artificial contraception is still wrong in the Church, but it's easy for non-Catholics to get the wrong idea about this due to the media coverage.

Nothing that was forbidden has been changed to being ok. Just want to be clear on this.

There are many good places to read about this, but perhaps the clearest I've read so far is this.

I don't understand how Catholics can "change" any of their beliefs. Their beliefs are set in stone by their misinterpretation of a book.

At least be consistent and don't change your beliefs, by doing so you just make it too easy for everyone to see how full of shiat you are.

Tuan: I don't understand how Catholics can "change" any of their beliefs. Their beliefs are set in stone by their misinterpretation of a book.

At least be consistent and don't change your beliefs, by doing so you just make it too easy for everyone to see how full of shiat you are.

first, what you say here is beyond wrong. the fact that the Catholic Church can change is seen as evidence of workings of the Holy Ghost. Baptists, on the other and for an example, view the Bible new Testament as unchanging and set in stone. The Catholic Church views the New testament as evidence that things put into action in the Old Testament have come to pass. And that it is ever changing and that the Holy Ghost is still working all around us today.

second, and this is in response to some others as well, the Pope doesn't receive any sort of divine revelation nor does he make off-the-cuff rulings or break canon law. absolutely not. he represents what is already there and works with others in the Church when change needs to occur. the Pope does not make the law. every single bit of Church law ever passed down has been recorded word for word, detail for detail, decision for decision, for hundreds of years. the Church is anything but "inconsistent" in how or why it does things.

third, there are over one billion Catholics in the world today. as another pointed out, doing what is proper for yourself - even if it seems to go against what the Church says - like using a condom...that is your choice. noone in the Church is putting a gun to your head and saying, "use a condom and you farking die". the Pope is responsible for interpretting and representing Church law as evenly as possible to meet the needs of one billion different people and getting them to all agree for the most part. one man. not one thousand all making things up when ever they want, however they want, and to what ever end they desire.

last, as someone else pointed out, i dont think most people get how rapidly or how much positive influence the current Pope has to put into play not one but two all-ok regarding condom use. we will probably never now when this process started but i wouldn't be surprised if it was initiated by Pope JP II back in the 70s. so probably at least 40 years to make it this far. that is like light-speed in the Catholic Church.

PS: Catholic don't misinterpet the Bible. they can document their connection with it back to the days of the Apostles. so, if anything, their "Catholic" (universal) take on the Bible is more true to form than any other - especially given that there wouldn't be any other "others" were it not for them.

/don't like Catholics?
//don't be Catholic.
///problem solved.

runslothrun: noone in the Church is putting a gun to your head and saying, "use a condom and you farking die"

um, actually, they did.... ^{(^)}

And they never hesitate to point out that if you are Catholic and don't follow their rules, you are committing various levels of sin, including mortal sin (which is where contraceptives rank). The penalty for mortal sin is eternal condemnation. That's a pretty serious threat if you take that shiat seriously.

Of course, you'll be joining those people in hell who ate a hot dog on friday before 1970, or the women who entered church without covering their heads, etc..

The church's position of condoms is laughable. And, yes, laughed at by the large majority of Catholic churchgoers. Welcome to the 18th century, Rome.

Now if we can just get Islam out of the 14th century.

maddogdelta: runslothrun: noone in the Church is putting a gun to your head and saying, "use a condom and you farking die"

um, actually, they did.... (^)

And they never hesitate to point out that if you are Catholic and don't follow their rules, you are committing various levels of sin, including mortal sin (which is where contraceptives rank). The penalty for mortal sin is eternal condemnation. That's a pretty serious threat if you take that shiat seriously.

Of course, you'll be joining those people in hell who ate a hot dog on friday before 1970, or the women who entered church without covering their heads, etc..

wtf, dude? the first paragraph of that article:

"Pope Benedict XVI, who is making his first papal visit to Africa, has said that handing out condoms is not the answer in the fight against HIV/Aids."

that isn't saying use a condom and die. it's saying that there is moral obligation unto ONESELF to not put yourself in that position in the first place.

what the fark is it with you anti-Catholics who frickin' act like one billion walk around saying, "whelp, i know better, but the man in teh pointy hat said 'no con-doms' so it's medical experiments for teh lot of you"????

do you actually think being Catholic = dumb? people have an obligation to themselves to do what is proper for THEM. what the Church says be damned. you farking act like noone in this world who is Catholic has enough of a brain to see the forest for the trees.

um, actually, they did....DERP DERP DERP I AM AN CATHOLIC BASHING farkWIT WHO REGURGITATES THE SAME shiat DAILY BECAUSE I KNOW THAT I AM SMARTER THAN ANY CATHOLIC PERSON EVER farkING WAS THAT EVER WALKED THE farkING EARTH - DERP - AND IT IS MY MISSION TO SAVE TEH MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF BRAINWASHED CATTLE FROM EXPLODING DICK SYNDROME AND HORRIBLE ABABIES - DERP.

that is what you're saying. you want to put your money where you mouth is? pick up a gun and go to africa and start shootin' the shiat out of those armies that frickin' destroying their own people and siphoning off food and medicinal relief donated by the Church and countless other governments, organizations, and individuals the world over to make themselves rich while their people die of hunger and disease (undoubtedly brought on by the EVIL POPE Condom Blockade - EPCB).

or just go hand out some condoms. life isn't as simple as you seem to think it is.

but you're the kind of person who also thinks that the Church is some all-powerful entity that is controlling peoples lives and destroying them by refusing condoms or abortions - on one hand - and, on the other hand complain about why the Church ISN'T doing more to stop these travesties because we all know they are the scret masters operating behind the scenes...THEY MUST WANT THEM ALL TO DIE! BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-EVIL-POPE-FTW!!!!

/there's no hate quite like Catholic hate

runslothrun: what the fark is it with you anti-Catholics who frickin' act like one billion walk around saying, "whelp, i know better, but the man in teh pointy hat said 'no con-doms' so it's medical experiments for teh lot of you"????

You can't hide pedophiles from secular law enforcement while claiming to be a moral authority. When I left the church, I just figured that any sort of divinity can be found within instead of relying on other humans telling you how you should live spiritually. If the Vatican does such a shiatty job at turning in child molesters, who the fark are they to tell me that I'm a sinner for putting a piece of rubber over my wang when I have sex? Did Jesus say anything about condoms?

do you actually think being Catholic = dumb? people have an obligation to themselves to do what is proper for THEM. what the Church says be damned. you farking act like noone in this world who is Catholic has enough of a brain to see the forest for the trees.

There are many great people who happen to be Catholic, and I give them props for at least attempting to accept science over creationism.

I even have family members who are still involved. My concern is that they are doing themselves a huge disservice for continuing to enable such a flawed and corrupt institution based in their own farking country.

runslothrun

Not sure if you're a troll because I know a few morons who think similarly (and not all of them are Catholic, mind you), but either way: You retarded, boy.

This really isn't a change of position, it's a clarification. Murder (giving someone a deadly disease) is always a greater sin than sex outside of marriage.

If the primary purpose of condoms are to prevent disease and preventing pregnancy is a side effect, it's not a sin. For example, if two people were married and one got AIDS from a blood transfusion, it would not be any kind of sin to have sex with a condom. It's the same thing with birth control. If a woman is prescribed birth control to deal with a medical condition (and there are several painful conditions that fall into this category), it's not a sin to take it. And that example was straight from a nun teaching 8th grade in a Catholic school 14 years ago.

/I'm not a priest, so take this as you will

Oh look, someone thought about the principle of double effect and decided that the generation of a pregnancy was not an intrinsic to the act of having sex. Yawn.

runslothrun: /there's no hate quite like Catholic hate

Nice retort Mr. Donahue. I was raised a Catholic, so I think I have a familiarity with Catholic doctrine.

I will allow for your outpouring of derp, as I didn't link to the best articles. How about this one ^{(^)}, then read this one ^{(^)}, and then the abstract for this article ^{(^)}

The Catholic church has spread tremendous amounts of misinformation. A bishop was quoted saying that condoms are not effective against ^{(^)} aids.
[Note:
1. While his wording was "not wholly effective" he then tried to give an argument about the relative sizes of sperm cells and virus molecules to make it seem that all of the virus would get through, and none of the sperm would...Kind of a "false impression" wouldn't you think?
2. Sure, it was "only a bishop, not the pope" If that is your argument, you don't understand how catholics do religion. If a priest in point barrow alaska says that the pope might be incorrect on something, that priest is silenced in days. Check out what happened to theologians working at Catholic Universities who dared go against Church teaching.
If this bishop was not stating church position, the vatican would have been on his case like flies on shiat. Instead, you hear nothing. They agree with what he said.]

Interesting knee jerk reaction you have, though. What's your opinion on sheltering pedophiles?

maddogdelta: runslothrun: /there's no hate quite like Catholic hate

Nice retort Mr. Donahue. I was raised a Catholic, so I think I have a familiarity with Catholic doctrine.

I will allow for your outpouring of derp, as I didn't link to the best articles. How about this one (^), then read this one (^), and then the abstract for this article (^)

The Catholic church has spread tremendous amounts of misinformation. A bishop was quoted saying that condoms are not effective against (^) aids.
[Note:
1. While his wording was "not wholly effective" he then tried to give an argument about the relative sizes of sperm cells and virus molecules to make it seem that all of the virus would get through, and none of the sperm would...Kind of a "false impression" wouldn't you think?
2. Sure, it was "only a bishop, not the pope" If that is your argument, you don't understand how catholics do religion. If a priest in point barrow alaska says that the pope might be incorrect on something, that priest is silenced in days. Check out what happened to theologians working at Catholic Universities who dared go against Church teaching.
If this bishop was not stating church position, the vatican would have been on his case like flies on shiat. Instead, you hear nothing. They agree with what he said.]

Interesting knee jerk reaction you have, though. What's your opinion on sheltering pedophiles?

they should be shot and the Vatican forced by any means necessary to assist in bringing them to justice and also to bring to justice any within the Vatican who were complicit in 'helping' them escape justice legal and escape any possibility of justice for the victim.

that's how i feel about that and i don't care what the Vatican has to say about it. why? because being Catholic does not equal being stupid or blind.

oroku_saki: runslothrun: what the fark is it with you anti-Catholics who frickin' act like one billion walk around saying, "whelp, i know better, but the man in teh pointy hat said 'no con-doms' so it's medical experiments for teh lot of you"????

You can't hide pedophiles from secular law enforcement while claiming to be a moral authority. When I left the church, I just figured that any sort of divinity can be found within instead of relying on other humans telling you how you should live spiritually. If the Vatican does such a shiatty job at turning in child molesters, who the fark are they to tell me that I'm a sinner for putting a piece of rubber over my wang when I have sex? Did Jesus say anything about condoms?

do you actually think being Catholic = dumb? people have an obligation to themselves to do what is proper for THEM. what the Church says be damned. you farking act like noone in this world who is Catholic has enough of a brain to see the forest for the trees.

There are many great people who happen to be Catholic, and I give them props for at least attempting to accept science over creationism.

I even have family members who are still involved. My concern is that they are doing themselves a huge disservice for continuing to enable such a flawed and corrupt institution based in their own farking country.

you'll never get an answer out of me regarding child abuse and the Vatican other than it is wrong, the stance of the Vatican is wrong, the actions of those within the Church to hide it is wrong and I sincerely believe that any and all people within in the Church involved in it in any way should be brought to justice. if the Vatican doesn't want to take that step, then law enforcement needs to do it for them in any way possible.

runslothrun: because being Catholic does not equal being stupid or blind.

Did you know that just disagreeing with the vatican about abortion means that the church automatically excommunicates you? So, depending on your disagreements, you may already be considered excommunicate. ^{(^)}

Depending on how "cooperate" is defined, just voting for a pro life candidate may make you automatically excommunicated.