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(Spiegel)   Unexpectedly, new research reveals medieval torturers had scruples   (spiegel.de) divider line 115
    More: Interesting, cities in Germany, unborn baby, stoned to death, SPIEGELnet GmbH, guilty verdicts, torture, jurists  
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15131 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2010 at 12:53 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-17 11:39:18 AM
If I recall correctly, there was a prohibition by the Church against spilling blood during torture. Inquisitors who spilled blood had to engage in penance, so they devised tortures designed to avoid causing bleeding in order to avoid the mess. So to speak.
 
2010-11-17 11:52:27 AM
I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.
 
2010-11-17 11:57:28 AM
DarnoKonrad: I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.

We have all sorts of rationalizations and justifications, but really what it comes down to, throughout human history, is that we really like to hurt people.
 
2010-11-17 12:11:05 PM
I work in the Special Collections area of a library, and we own a copy of some sort of "manual of confession" for inquisitors.

One paragraph is a dead-accurate description of waterboarding. It's eerie.
 
2010-11-17 12:13:49 PM
"All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-11-17 12:27:42 PM
Mentat

Either you're thinking of the old Dungeons and Dragons rules for clerics, or Gygax got the idea from the Church.
 
2010-11-17 12:56:24 PM
So they had something to do if they got bored?

shop.vintagetoybox.co.uk
 
2010-11-17 12:56:55 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com

okay, I'll do it. Someone has to.
 
2010-11-17 12:56:57 PM
i46.tinypic.com
 
2010-11-17 12:57:27 PM
timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.


Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?
 
2010-11-17 12:57:36 PM
Mishno: okay, I'll do it. Someone has to.

Two seconds.

Two. Fncking. Seconds.
 
2010-11-17 12:57:57 PM
DarnoKonrad: I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

The Renaissance poet Petrarch, for example, carried this sort of fiction to extremes. He dreamed up the "brazen bull," a hollow object made of metal that was placed over a fire while the condemned criminals inside were cooked alive.

That story is about 2,000 years older than Petrarch.
 
2010-11-17 12:58:01 PM
What orifices did they stick them into to cause pain?
 
2010-11-17 12:58:26 PM
Stanfan114: Mishno: okay, I'll do it. Someone has to.

Two seconds.

Two. Fncking. Seconds.


I thought yours was the perfect thing to follow mine! It's like we planned it!
 
2010-11-17 12:59:35 PM
ZAZ: Mentat

Either you're thinking of the old Dungeons and Dragons rules for clerics, or Gygax got the idea from the Church.


Nope pretty sure he's right and yah Gygax lifted that concept from the inquisition's handbook.
 
2010-11-17 12:59:56 PM
jst3p: timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.

Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?


Yes thank goodness we don't torture people for having differing ideologies anymore.
 
2010-11-17 01:00:32 PM
Mishno: Stanfan114: Mishno: okay, I'll do it. Someone has to.

Two seconds.

Two. Fncking. Seconds.

I thought yours was the perfect thing to follow mine! It's like we planned it!


I like your attitude!
 
2010-11-17 01:01:00 PM
Stanfan114: jst3p: timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.

Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?

Yes thank goodness we don't torture people for having differing ideologies anymore.


Just come college hazing like activities, from what I hear.
 
2010-11-17 01:01:11 PM
jst3p: timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.

Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?


My active animosity isn't for those people, really, but more for the people who sit around and say, "Hey, it's all right. Sure, we think ripping someone intestines out with a hook is bad now, but it's just how their culture was."
 
2010-11-17 01:02:03 PM
Time to open the floodgates for fark atheists to point their finger at religion as the cause of all evil.
 
2010-11-17 01:02:05 PM
The more you say it, the more 'scruples' sounds like a testicular torture device.
 
2010-11-17 01:03:02 PM
Want to see a great flick about torture by the U.S. ?

This is a film directed by the brilliant Costa-Gavras who also did "Z" and "Missing". It's based on the true story of U.S. torture consultant Dan Mitrione.

The US is an evil empire and has been for a long time.
______________________________________

"State of Siege"

Link (new window)

http://www.youtube.com/user/lucienrouvere#g/u
 
2010-11-17 01:04:25 PM
Another TSA themed article? What the hell.
 
2010-11-17 01:04:47 PM
Great- another damn TSA thread.
 
2010-11-17 01:05:15 PM
jst3p: Stanfan114: jst3p: timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.

Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?

Yes thank goodness we don't torture people for having differing ideologies anymore.

Just come college hazing like activities, from what I hear.


Boys will be boys!

waterboarding.org
 
2010-11-17 01:05:27 PM
But the executioners of the Middle Ages were not driven by such sadistic impulses. Instead, for the general good, they sought to pacify the "offended God." "The Christian authorities also subjected wrongdoers to gruesome punishments so that they could attain eternal life," says Schild. The prevailing view at the time was only when the refractory body had been softened up would the soul be liberated and ready for God.

Ahh, it's OK then, they were really doing it all for your own good.
 
2010-11-17 01:05:34 PM
Hassan Ben Sobr: Great- another damn TSA thread.

*fistbump*
 
2010-11-17 01:05:35 PM
I got to type faster.
 
2010-11-17 01:05:51 PM
timujin: jst3p: timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.

Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?

My active animosity isn't for those people, really, but more for the people who sit around and say, "Hey, it's all right. Sure, we think ripping someone intestines out with a hook is bad now, but it's just how their culture was."


Fair enough, I didn't think the comment you quoted was trying to justify, rather educate. But that was just my take.
 
2010-11-17 01:06:09 PM
Hassan Ben Sobr: I got to type faster.

Yep :P
 
2010-11-17 01:06:55 PM
Cagey B: DarnoKonrad: I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.

We have all sorts of rationalizations and justifications, but really what it comes down to, throughout human history, is that we really like to hurt people.


Is that the royal "we"? Because I'm pretty sure that I really don't like to cause harm, and would not like to be included in your all inclusive "we" were it not the case.
 
2010-11-17 01:08:55 PM
Bob16

The US is an evil empire and has been for a long time.

Um, not really evil. Just normal in the realms of humanity. Al countries do it to some extent, particuarly during times of war. The only thing I found shocking when the recent allegations of torture came out was that most of the American public was shocked that the US used it. It would be a bit naive to assume it doesn't happen because the US was the "nice guys" (sarcasm).

/maybe I'm just jaded
 
2010-11-17 01:12:27 PM
sometimes you just got to torture some mothafarkas.

/blowtorch
//pliers
//let's get medieval!
 
2010-11-17 01:12:59 PM
jst3p: timujin: jst3p: timujin: "All brutality aside, the criminal law of the day was also concerned with the salvation of the convicted criminal."

You know what? I don't give a shiat. Dress it up however you want, torture is still torture. Moral relativism can take a flying fark. I don't give a shiat if it's putting someone on the rack because they believe in something different than you or cutting out the hearts of virgins to appease your god. However you try to excuse it, you're still a dick. Fark you.

Ummm, you know this happened a long time ago and the ones who did the torturing are all dead now right?

My active animosity isn't for those people, really, but more for the people who sit around and say, "Hey, it's all right. Sure, we think ripping someone intestines out with a hook is bad now, but it's just how their culture was."

Fair enough, I didn't think the comment you quoted was trying to justify, rather educate. But that was just my take.


Yeah, it's "moral relativism" that I find offensive.
 
2010-11-17 01:14:47 PM
Excellent headline. You win the comfy chair.
 
2010-11-17 01:15:24 PM
FTFA:
The Renaissance poet Petrarch, for example, carried this sort of fiction to extremes. He dreamed up the "brazen bull,"...

I thought this was a real device and after searching the web there is nothing that says this did not exists.
 
2010-11-17 01:16:06 PM
chaositect

Is that the royal "we"? Because I'm pretty sure that I really don't like to cause harm, and would not like to be included in your all inclusive "we" were it not the case.

That's what we would all like to think. But the human psyche will take on great pains to rationalize evil-doing. It's called moral disengagement and has been seen time and time again. (see: regular Germans following the Nazis (banality of Evil)/Stanford experiment/ASch Paradigm/Milgrim experiment/Third Wave/and so many many more)
 
2010-11-17 01:17:35 PM
"There was a time when 99° of people believed in the gods. It is of no surprise that they called this period the Dark Ages."

This article is just one more example of how religion is the root of all evil.
 
2010-11-17 01:20:40 PM
99%!
 
2010-11-17 01:20:46 PM
Nirsch butchered more than 500 people before he was captured near Nuremberg in September 1581.

Wait...serial killers have been around longer than porn and video games? How is that possible???
 
2010-11-17 01:23:01 PM
Leeds: "There was a time when 99° of people believed in the gods. It is of no surprise that they called this period the Dark Ages."

This article is just one more example of how religion is the root of all evil.


Because if there were no religion, people would all be good, right?

I am not defending religion, just pointing out how absurd your statement is. People are the root of all evil, religion is just one way to go about it.
 
2010-11-17 01:24:11 PM
Shenanigans!: Nirsch butchered more than 500 people before he was captured near Nuremberg in September 1581.

Wait...serial killers have been around longer than porn and video games? How is that possible???


Porn has been around longer.

www.imagesofanthropology.com
 
2010-11-17 01:25:05 PM
That's a typo. What they had were screw-pulls - diabolically painful devices that were used to stretch body parts to the point of breaking.
 
2010-11-17 01:26:26 PM
Cagey B: DarnoKonrad: I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.

We have all sorts of rationalizations and justifications, but really what it comes down to, throughout human history, is that we really like to hurt people.


And this is why I prefer my admitted sadist friends to most other humans, with them at least they admit they enjoy hurting others. Humans have a huge capacity for brutality matched only by their capacity for self-delusion and rationalization of that brutality.
 
2010-11-17 01:26:57 PM
So - medieval torturers required "evidence clear as day" before torturing?

Whereas today, we torture to get evidence?

Hooray for progress.
 
2010-11-17 01:29:20 PM
wildstarr: FTFA:
The Renaissance poet Petrarch, for example, carried this sort of fiction to extremes. He dreamed up the "brazen bull,"...

I thought this was a real device and after searching the web there is nothing that says this did not exists.


Yes the brazen bull was real.

The victim was put inside a bronze bull, and a fire was lit under the bull. The victims screams went through a series of internal horns so what came out sounded like a bull. It was so hot inside the bull, the bones of the victims often crystallized, and were made into jewelry.

Interestingly enough, the inventor of the brazen bull was also the first victim.
 
2010-11-17 01:30:01 PM
Leeds: "There was a time when 99° of people believed in the gods. It is of no surprise that they called this period the Dark Ages."

This article is just one more example of how religion is the root of all evil.


You know, you are absolutely correct. If religion hadn't been introduced to early humans by diabolical aliens doing a hellish phsycological experiment, no atrocities or wars would have ever happened. It would be all peace, love, and happiness. Rainbows everywhere, and weed and booze for all. Just thing of the utopia we''ve been robbed of....kind of sad really.
 
2010-11-17 01:30:13 PM
Peppermint Rose

Humans have a huge capacity for brutality matched only by their capacity for self-delusion and rationalization of that brutality.

Agree completely.
 
2010-11-17 01:30:35 PM
keypusher: DarnoKonrad: I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

The Renaissance poet Petrarch, for example, carried this sort of fiction to extremes. He dreamed up the "brazen bull," a hollow object made of metal that was placed over a fire while the condemned criminals inside were cooked alive.

That story is about 2,000 years older than Petrarch.


I'm glad you said that. I was reading that in the article and wondering if I'd finally lost it.

Interesting thing about the BB was that the inventor was also the first victim.
 
2010-11-17 01:35:23 PM
chaositect: Cagey B: DarnoKonrad: I think you'll find most atrocities are done under the auspices of some rationalized virtue -- not psychopathy run a muck.

We have all sorts of rationalizations and justifications, but really what it comes down to, throughout human history, is that we really like to hurt people.

Is that the royal "we"? Because I'm pretty sure that I really don't like to cause harm, and would not like to be included in your all inclusive "we" were it not the case.


The "we" refers to humanity in general. And I think that most people that adopt your position are kidding themselves.
 
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