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(Washington Post)   The TSA has listened to your complaints, considered your arguments, and has a reply: Submit to screenings or stay the fark home   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 435
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10813 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2010 at 10:34 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-17 11:20:20 AM  
Jim DiGriz: rytheran: That's the worst part. I care more about the machines than the pat downs. I can eat broccoli before the pat down for laughs, but being put in a machine that uses the same technology that causes nurses to exit the room before activating it worries me.

You do know that Dentists, X-ray techs, etc... leave the room because otherwise they would receive an unsafe dose of radiation, right? A busy Dentist office or X-ray lab can perform quite a few shots in a day, and radiation doses are usually considered cumulative. If you were an X-ray tech, would you stay in the room, or head behind the lead-lined wall? Granted, you probably wouldn't have any immediate health effects, but your cancer chance would go up pretty dramatically if you stayed in the room.


Which is another reason why the use of backscatter machines is rank imbecility, particularly for pilots.
 
2010-11-17 11:21:09 AM  
Awesome. After years of viewing internet porn being molested by an overweight TSA agent publicly is pretty much the only way I can get off nowdays. Even better if they have some sort of obvious mental/physical issue. Nothing like having the back of a TSA agent's hand accidently bump against my junk to make me throw my head by and start yelling "Yes! Ohhhhhhhhhhh yes!" in pure joy.
 
2010-11-17 11:21:10 AM  
Another Pretentious Nickname: I wonder if there are regular flyers in this thread who vigorously oppose this. I fly a lot and have for twenty years, and I really don't give a crap at all; it takes a modicum of preparation to go smoothly through security.

I guess I just don't think pre-boarding security is "unreasonable search", and therefore that this isn't in violation of any essential liberty.


I've never had a problem with airport security until the x-ray thing started. I don't care what you call the technology, I'm not convinced it isn't going to cause me harm. I've been pulled aside for a secondary screening exactly one time, and I knew it was going to happen because I had a one-way first class ticket on an airline I hardly ever fly. Other than that, if you're prepared, security is a piece of cake. The only problems I've had with stolen baggage is from the union baggage handlers, not the TSA.

But when you put my health below a security theater? No. That's where it ends for me.
 
2010-11-17 11:21:19 AM  
naveline: I'm willing to bet there is a substantial pedophilic and ephebophilic population currently trying to get into the TSA because of the sanctioned kid-peeping and kid-feeling. Just like the clergy. The baddies are not fools; they know how to find and gratify their obsession.

I bet you could get a baby alone real easy too with these idiot non-voter nonstarter dociles that do whatever they uniform tells them because it's SECURITY! Protecting our FREEDOM!


Stories like This (new window) make me think there might be a few already working there.
 
2010-11-17 11:21:33 AM  
Jairzinho: tuffsnake: Jairzinho: check what the image of your daughter, wife, sister

What about your husband, brother or son?

I couldn't find a fake TSA picture depicting a young and fit male.


oh gotcha
 
2010-11-17 11:21:41 AM  
Tachikoma: I would feel a lot more secure if they spent this much time screening the farking cargo instead.

This too - but the shipping companies won't stand for that. $$$ talks, you realize.

lafong: Israelis, do not use full body scanners or intrusive body searches on everyone. The Israelis use the dreaded (gasp)"Profiling", as do almost every other nation. Lets all start learning to speak Arabic and say "Sucran" to all our beloved Arabe and Muslim bretheren.

The "Israeli way" works for Israel because they have a FRACTION of the traffic the US does, and it's rather homogeneous traffic at that. It's just not remotely possible to apply in the US.
 
2010-11-17 11:21:56 AM  
So, for all the people talking about the Death of America as if it were someone elses problem, why are none of you actively campaigning to elect people with a less paternalistic view on government? This is part of the problem. This whole 'let someone else deal with the issues' mentality has led to the one organization that loves to deal with issues(as a way of expanding its footprint), namely the government, to fill the vacuum of needs.

If you believe that this is the death of freedom, the decline of America, or the destruction of a critical industry, why are you just sitting passively by or asking other people to organize protests.

It personally does not bother me too much, as I have always felt that compromises in personal liberty were necessary to preserve some level of safety.
 
2010-11-17 11:22:19 AM  
My wife is upstairs coming unglued over this article (and thread). This is going to effect my planned 'nooner. Damn you Fark.
 
2010-11-17 11:22:48 AM  
It should be obvious, but don't kid yourselves -- if there is another successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil it will only embolden surly TSA personnel and their ilk. No one in the upper echelons is going to take a step back and think "hmm, maybe knee-jerk reactions aren't the best solution to our problem afterall".
 
2010-11-17 11:22:54 AM  
I like knowing that as my sacks are carressed that I am in some way helping to prevent another terrorist plot to overthrow the american government and their capitalistic ways of life.
 
2010-11-17 11:23:10 AM  
NukkenFutz: The most frightening thing to me about this issue is how easily the vast majority of Americans simply acquiesce to a gross invasion of a reasonable expectation of privacy. The government is using the specter of terrorism to erode civil liberties in the name of public safety- an agenda it pursues constantly, and has managed to take to yet another level.

Some guy strokes my package with the back of his hand, it's an awkward embarrassment for both of us, and little more.

Meanwhile, people are asked to supply their farking social security numbers to complete strangers every day, for next to no reason. Hell, it was the first piece of requested info on some store's frequent shopper program app the other day.

Seriously, I wonder how many people even think to object to that. Oh, some minimum-wage part-timer at the dogfood store wants my most critical and private means of identification? Well shucks, I do get a $5 off coupon so... hell ya, bro!
 
2010-11-17 11:23:23 AM  
Tentacle: vernonFL: Meh.

I get patted down and groped by strangers every weekend at a nightclub.

Strangers see me naked every day at the gym.

I have to take off my shoes to go bowling.

Is it illegal to grope back a TSA agent, though?


I'm a TSA employee and am willing to examine this question given certain restrictions of course.
 
2010-11-17 11:23:42 AM  
Such extreme security protocals at airports is kind of silly if you ask me.

9/11 happened because of the widespread belief that if you cooperate with the hijackers you'll make it through okay. Now that the official policy has switched to "stop any hijacking attempt at all costs", another 9/11 can't realistically happen.

Sure they could blow up the plane, but they could also blow up a shopping mall, a subway, or a Football stadium. All this extra security is doing is making them pick different targets.

All we need are some basic non-intrusive scanning equipment, locks on the cockpit doors, and an armed undercover security guard.
 
2010-11-17 11:24:01 AM  
Lumbar Puncture: Awesome. After years of viewing internet porn being molested by an overweight TSA agent publicly is pretty much the only way I can get off nowdays. Even better if they have some sort of obvious mental/physical issue. Nothing like having the back of a TSA agent's hand accidently bump against my junk to make me throw my head by and start yelling "Yes! Ohhhhhhhhhhh yes!" in pure joy.

Surely there's a club that caters to that particular kink?
 
2010-11-17 11:24:36 AM  
Antimatter: I'm just waiting for the first guy to blow himself up in the security line.

WTF would TSA do then?


I'd go home sick.
 
2010-11-17 11:24:46 AM  
MycroftHolmes: So, for all the people talking about the Death of America as if it were someone elses problem, why are none of you actively campaigning to elect people with a less paternalistic view on government? This is part of the problem. This whole 'let someone else deal with the issues' mentality has led to the one organization that loves to deal with issues(as a way of expanding its footprint), namely the government, to fill the vacuum of needs.

If you believe that this is the death of freedom, the decline of America, or the destruction of a critical industry, why are you just sitting passively by or asking other people to organize protests.

It personally does not bother me too much, as I have always felt that compromises in personal liberty were necessary to preserve some level of safety.


That's one hell of an assumption, Holmes.
 
2010-11-17 11:25:18 AM  
I personally don't give a fark about the screeners. If they want to giggle at my body parts like third graders, big farking deal.

That said, it is rather invasive, and it keeps getting worse. What's next? Do we give them the rights to strip search us? It's silly.
 
2010-11-17 11:25:22 AM  
How about using a plastic tube filled with poisonous gas lodged in your ass? Enough of that could take out the whole plane easy peasy like.

/good thing I'm one of the good guys
 
2010-11-17 11:25:54 AM  
So where are the small-government people calling for the abolishment of the TSA. I thought government waste and intrusion were big no-nos...
 
2010-11-17 11:26:27 AM  
If the TSA's mission is making transportation safer, why do they train to find drugs? I have never seen cocaine blow a hole in the side of an airliner. Lets all give up our rights quietly because the TSA did a poll that said we should.
 
2010-11-17 11:26:36 AM  
Israel is hope to arguably the most security intensive airport in the world, and they don't use these backscatter machines. They cannot figure out why we are spending billions on machines that apparently don't work as well as the TSA claims (I've heard several credible claims that there are ways to sneak things through it).

When is the TSA going to stop treating us regular passengers as a liability, and start treating us as a resource. The TSA has yet to catch a single terrorist; every foiled terrorist who went to an airport was stopped by passengers.
 
2010-11-17 11:27:12 AM  
Non-evil Monkey: Such extreme security protocals at airports is kind of silly if you ask me.

9/11 happened because of the widespread belief that if you cooperate with the hijackers you'll make it through okay. Now that the official policy has switched to "stop any hijacking attempt at all costs", another 9/11 can't realistically happen.

Sure they could blow up the plane, but they could also blow up a shopping mall, a subway, or a Football stadium. All this extra security is doing is making them pick different targets.

All we need are some basic non-intrusive scanning equipment, locks on the cockpit doors, and an armed undercover security guard.


But if the airline industry takes a hit, it's a major hit to our ECONOMY. We're THAT dependent on it, and the enemy knows it. It's like waiting until the right moment to push the back of someone's knees so they'll topple over. If your wife has to have her cooter laid out on a table and examined, then that's what's going to happen. It's the ECONOMY, stupid.
 
2010-11-17 11:27:33 AM  
WhatAWhich: Do we give them the rights to strip search us?

If they've got some dollar bills, I can put on a show.
 
2010-11-17 11:28:12 AM  
cryinoutloud: That's not real, as has been mentioned many times. More like this:

Actually, those were the first generation machines that were extremely low resolution. They're quite a bit more realistic now. optoutday.com has samples.
 
2010-11-17 11:29:07 AM  
blakec1: My wife is upstairs coming unglued over this article (and thread). This is going to effect my planned 'nooner. Damn you Fark.

Dude, it's more fun when they're angry.
 
2010-11-17 11:29:14 AM  
WhatAWhich: I What's next? Do we give them the rights to strip search us? It's silly.

We don't have to give it to them. They'll just take it and tell us if we want to fly to get over it.
 
2010-11-17 11:29:19 AM  
cmb53208: phestry: I'm just curious where it will end. How far will Americans yield their liberty in exchange for safety.

Do you really want to know? If we put the Bill of Rights up to a public vote, it would probably go down in defeat.


A reality I'm all too aware of. America is dead. It's all over but the crying at this point. These people deserve neither freedom nor safety.
 
2010-11-17 11:30:16 AM  
liam76: Dog Welder: Just an FYI, and this is where search and seizure (i.e. 4th Amendment) gets dicey is that the 4th Amendment is exempted from border crossing, ports and points of entry. An airport is considered a "point of entry."

Only if you are flying in/out of the country.


Until someone gets the TSA into a courtroom (and presumably in front of the Supreme Court), they are using that loophole in the 4th Amendment as justification. That's all I'm saying.
 
2010-11-17 11:30:20 AM  
darkvstar: Let's stop pretending. This country is irreparably broken. your federal tax dollars have become nothing more than strong armed robbery by the wealthy. If we cannot get rid of the universally reviled TSA then we, as a people, have no power at all.



So, Mission Accomplished?
 
2010-11-17 11:30:42 AM  
ultraholland: So where are the small-government people calling for the abolishment of the TSA. I thought government waste and intrusion were big no-nos...

The true small gov't people (read: not tea-baggers) have been calling for that for years. No one listens to them because they were first branded as crackpot libertarians, and then the libertarian name was co-opted by the teabaggers, stripping it of all meaning.
 
2010-11-17 11:31:05 AM  
Suggestions to the American People to show our displeasure at the TSA fascism currently running wild:

* Eat beans/Taco Bell before boarding. Rip a big nasty fart when you're being patted down.

* Piss yourself when you're being patted down.

* Do not bathe for a few days before flight. Make the experience terrible for TSA and other passengers.

* Soak your clothes in urine before attempting to board (if you're not up to pissing yourself).


...And so on. If people make the experience of flying and being patted down so disgusting that the airlines start losing passengers and money, then they'll consider changing the policies. The only way they'll stop marching on the path to total fascism is if it becomes unprofitable.
 
2010-11-17 11:31:38 AM  
AntiNorm:
TFA also talks about the national opt-out day. This is not what we need to do. Instead, everybody should opt out, every day, 100% of the time. A few people opting out on one day will go unnoticed. Large numbers of people opting out every day won't.


Messing with TSA flunckies is counterproductive. They are only following rules that they are paid to follow. If the rules are stupid, we need to address the rule-makers, AKA Congress. Our legislators, elected by us, need to understand that we do not want this and that they have gone too far. Write a letter or email or make a phone call. Let them know your opinion. Going head-to-head with law enforcement, you will always lose.
 
2010-11-17 11:31:48 AM  
itazurakko: Lumbar Puncture: Awesome. After years of viewing internet porn being molested by an overweight TSA agent publicly is pretty much the only way I can get off nowdays. Even better if they have some sort of obvious mental/physical issue. Nothing like having the back of a TSA agent's hand accidently bump against my junk to make me throw my head by and start yelling "Yes! Ohhhhhhhhhhh yes!" in pure joy.

Surely there's a club that caters to that particular kink?


I wonder if there's women who love that sort of role-play fantasy. I gotta believe some chicks get off big if a guy puts on a TSA uni and bosses them into an 'enhanced' search situation. Heavy on the humiliation, then being forced to trade favors for a release from custody.
 
2010-11-17 11:32:05 AM  
static02.mediaite.com

I can't believe that they didn't make her take off her shoes.
 
Pud
2010-11-17 11:32:18 AM  
I think it would be hilarious if a couple hundred pre-op trannies were to show up all at the same time. Then back and watch the melt down of the TSA agents as they try to tag team them. They would need a female to cop a feel on teh boobies, then step into another line for male to grab their junk.
 
2010-11-17 11:32:32 AM  
ChipNASA: lib.store.yahoo.net

WANT
 
2010-11-17 11:32:39 AM  
Not that this changes anything for me, but okay. Staying home, train or driving. No probs.
 
2010-11-17 11:32:41 AM  
Carth: WhatAWhich: I What's next? Do we give them the rights to strip search us? It's silly.

We don't have to give it to them. They'll just take it and tell us if we want to fly to get over it.


No way. I'll walk before I let some fat ass TSA put hands on me. Gross.
 
2010-11-17 11:32:52 AM  
Dog Welder: Until someone gets the TSA into a courtroom (and presumably in front of the Supreme Court), they are using that loophole in the 4th Amendment as justification. That's all I'm saying.

This guy out of CA will likely be the first challenge.

And I think a "point of entry" claim will be defeated on the grounds that we already treat domestic flights separate from international flights.

The "special needs" doctrine will be the likely defense of the system, and although I don't think it applies because there is no immediate threat present, an acrobatic court could easily expand the idea.
 
2010-11-17 11:33:22 AM  
Carth: rytheran:

Remember, this is a private company that built the machines, and if you think they care about safety, then lets go find a red light camera thread and see how those companies behave themselves. I wont walk into an x-ray scanner until doctors actually run tests on these (and the physics guys dont count, they aint docs).

I agree. Also the head of the company that makes these scanners is headed by former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. This revolving door politics makes me sick.


THIS!

For those of you who haven't heard of the Chertoff Group.
 
2010-11-17 11:33:30 AM  
iron_city_ap: Um, I have to clear TSA security daily as part of my job. I'd like to think I have an above average framiliarity with it. I can see being worried with your children going through. That definately poses a dilemma. Your wife is an adult and can make up her own mind on the issue. If she is fine with it and you don't like it, thats an issue for the two of you to work out.

With not being able to opt out, the video proves otherwise


You have no idea what you are talking abotu when it comes to peopel objections because you don't think safety is a major factor, and you are laboring under the impression the policy of the TSA is that you can just refuse with no reprecussions.

This isn't the case if you have followed what the TSA actually says and the guy in the stories full account.
 
kth
2010-11-17 11:34:01 AM  
unfknreal: A friend of mine is flying soon and has decided to wear a kilt. He has no shame in admitting very loudly during the pat down that he's not wearing underwear.

My fiance started talking about doing that. I started looking at mapquest to see how long it takes to drive to Texas to visit his parents.

I'm glad I don't have to fly as much as I did. My last job required that I fly twice a week.
 
2010-11-17 11:34:06 AM  
The Crepes of Wrath: FTA: A recent CBS poll found that 81 percent of those surveyed did not object to the screenings.

There's the problem right there. A huge majority doesn't have a problem sacrificing their rights in exchange for the illusion of security.


A huge majority of the population doesn't fly, and have no problem sacrificing the rights of the 7% of us who are frequent flyers.

Do a valid statistical sampling of people who fly more than 8 round trips a year and you will get very, very different results.
 
2010-11-17 11:34:11 AM  
The enhanced pat downs are not about necessity, they're about penalizing you for not using their new expensive toys.
 
2010-11-17 11:34:13 AM  
ultraholland: WhatAWhich: Do we give them the rights to strip search us?

If they've got some dollar bills, I can put on a show.


Nah, it's cool. Keep your shirt on, bro. I am pro-clothing.
 
2010-11-17 11:34:24 AM  
WhatAWhich: No way. I'll walk before I let some fat ass TSA put hands on me. Gross.

Hey baby, how u doin?
 
2010-11-17 11:35:08 AM  
What's the big deal? They're just getting us ready to accept the next step in security measures - the digital rectal exam.

I would rather have a trained professional such as a TSA agent to ensure my safety by checking my rectum to make sure someone didn't implant an incendiary device in it, or even a rock, some wires and chewing gum. It's not like anyone has successfully achieved it or tried a dry (or moist) run. (new window)
 
2010-11-17 11:35:19 AM  
Rambo'sDad: Messing with TSA flunckies is counterproductive. They are only following rules that they are paid to follow. If the rules are stupid, we need to address the rule-makers, AKA Congress. Our legislators, elected by us, need to understand that we do not want this and that they have gone too far. Write a letter or email or make a phone call. Let them know your opinion. Going head-to-head with law enforcement, you will always lose.

If you want to send a message, have everyone opt out on one flight. That will produce one of two effects:

- an entire flight is delayed, sending a ripple throughout the national transport network
- an entire plane flies empty, a significant waste for the already-hurting airline industry and their resulting lobby.

Congress won't do shiat without a tangible result. Right now, their only tangible results are Sept 11/Richard Reid/that guy who tried lighting his farts last christmas.
 
2010-11-17 11:35:27 AM  
Badmonkey82009: If the TSA's mission is making transportation safer, why do they train to find drugs?

Because the war on terror is being fought just like the war on drugs.
The mission: Put as many law abiding citizens in peril as you can. Imprison them, harrass them. Bill the citizenry as much as you can. Tax them financially, and tax their liberty. Take as much as you can. Only when you control their freedom and finances will they be safe from fear and a nice buzz.
 
2010-11-17 11:36:15 AM  
Rambo'sDad: Messing with TSA flunckies is counterproductive. They are only following rules that they are paid to follow

I disagree. Make them hate their jobs/lives enough, and they'll start to either quit en masse, or (even better) make noise about what the public thinks of them.

Going head-to-head with law enforcement, you will always lose.

TSA goons aren't LEOs, thank Christ.
 
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