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(Some Guy)   Teacher: What are you doing with a six-inch knife in school? Pupil: It's my religion. Teacher: My mistake, carry on   (swns.com) divider line 210
    More: Stupid, Sikh students, Sikhs, stickers, religious education, teachers, More4 News  
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14328 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2010 at 10:22 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-15 05:13:26 AM
That's horrible, what with all those kirpan-related stabbings we've been having across the continent. Next thing you know, kids'll be allowed to bring other objects that can be used as weapons into the classroom, such as pencils. Will no one think of the children?
 
2010-11-15 05:22:06 AM
Xivero: That's horrible, what with all those kirpan-related stabbings we've been having across the continent. Next thing you know, kids'll be allowed to bring other objects that can be used as weapons into the classroom, such as pencils. Will no one think of the children?

For that matter, what about school compasses? I don't know how sharp they are nowadays, but they used to be sharp enough to injure someone.

www.m3datapro.com
 
2010-11-15 05:57:51 AM
The children are right to laugh, Ralph. These things couldn't cut butter.
 
2010-11-15 06:41:53 AM
The advice was issued after parents asked for clarification on the issue and states that there should be no objection to the practice of wearing the five Ks.

These include the Kirpan, a steel bangle (Kara), unshorn hair (Kesh) a comb, (Kanga) and special underwear (Kacha).


A religion that requires a dagger, a comb and "special underwear"? where do I sign up?!?!?
 
2010-11-15 09:18:06 AM
I thought carrying a knife with a blade over 2.5 inches was a felony in schools and federal buildings.
 
2010-11-15 09:25:44 AM
log_jammin: A religion that requires "special underwear"? where do I sign up?!?!?

assets.nydailynews.com

right here, soldier!
 
2010-11-15 09:31:29 AM
What if your family follows the way of Alvis? The Feast of Alvis requires that we wear guns and plenty of them.
 
2010-11-15 09:32:52 AM
Bathia_Mapes: For that matter, what about school compasses? I don't know how sharp they are nowadays, but they used to be sharp enough to injure someone.

Cool story bro moment. During my Jr year in high school I watched two women fight near the front entrance. One of them ripped the hand set off a pay phone and proceeded to beat the other one into a coma.

Violent kids will be violent.
 
2010-11-15 09:57:55 AM
Yeah! How backward, turning a holy symbol into a sharp knife!

ny-image1.etsy.com

Oh snap!

/This was the right call; its not like they're going to be actually used.
 
2010-11-15 10:04:20 AM
Why is that stupid, submitter? Sikhism is a religion that goes back hundreds of years. It's one of the world's largest religions.

The kirpan is a ceremonial dagger that's never used for cutting anything. It's not even sharpened.

We're talking Sikhs here. They're not Muslims. They're not terrorists. They're pretty damned peaceful.

As long as the person wearing it is a Sikh, and not some thug using it as an excuse to bring a knife to school, why is this a problem?
 
2010-11-15 10:05:16 AM
log_jammin: A religion that requires..."special underwear"? where do I sign up?!?!?

www.templestudy.com

Not just for Mormons, but Orthodox Jews wear sacred undergarments as well. (new window). The Sikh garments, the Kachh, are styled after the old British India military breeches.
 
2010-11-15 10:07:31 AM
shivashakti: Why is that stupid, submitter? Sikhism is a religion that goes back hundreds of years. It's one of the world's largest religions.

It does go back hundreds of years, but I'm not sure 20-23 million people necessarily qualifies as one of the largest world religions. Its important more for its geographical locations and historical influence rather than its numbers. It about twice as large as Judaism. It doesn't need to be a numerically large tradition to be important.
 
2010-11-15 10:15:16 AM
FTFA: Tirath Singh Bhavra, of the SACRE committee, said that there were around 2,000 Sikh children in Bedford but that only a few of these would be baptised. He said: "There's no age limit on children being baptised but it's best if they are grown up and can make their own decisions.

www.sikhiwiki.org

It bothers me that even many Sikhs (new window) are referring to the Amrit Sanchar as a "baptism." Why adopt such Christian language? I'm not going to walk into a church and ask to hold an Amrit Sanchar (new window). I don't understand why anyone would suggest that what goes on in a gurdwara is a "Baptism." The sacred amrit is imbibed in Sikhism, not just sprinkled on them. The religious context is completely different. Not all Sikhs want to be in the Khalsa.
 
2010-11-15 10:16:12 AM
Perhaps he's planning on cutting class...
 
2010-11-15 10:25:39 AM
log_jammin: The advice was issued after parents asked for clarification on the issue and states that there should be no objection to the practice of wearing the five Ks.

These include the Kirpan, a steel bangle (Kara), unshorn hair (Kesh) a comb, (Kanga) and special underwear (Kacha).

A religion that requires a dagger, a comb and "special underwear"? where do I sign up?!?!?


They're like stabby, flower child mormons!
 
2010-11-15 10:26:52 AM
This is the kind of thing that makes a real American Sikh, Amrit?
 
2010-11-15 10:27:03 AM
I really like how they randomly capitalize words in the article... Like we're too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.

SIX INCH DAGGER to SCHOOL

I wonder how hard it was for them to not put "DUN DUN DUN" at the end of the headline.
 
2010-11-15 10:27:07 AM
This has been an issue for quite some time. When it came up in Vancouver (which has a notable Sikh population) it was brought to attention that the blade is dull, and in this particular case was locked into the sheath with a couple of screws.
 
2010-11-15 10:27:17 AM
shivashakti: As long as the person wearing it is a Sikh, and not some thug using it as an excuse to bring a knife to school, why is this a problem?

I believe I see what you did there.
 
2010-11-15 10:30:33 AM
I can see how this would be a problem for many parents, but the way I see it...if some kid wants to bring a knife to school to stab someone, he's going to do it. If a child is wearing a piece of decoration that resembles a knife that is a legitimate piece of their religious beliefs, then they should be allowed to do it, and let's just hope no incident occurs.
 
2010-11-15 10:30:34 AM
Somacandra: FTFA: Tirath Singh Bhavra, of the SACRE committee, said that there were around 2,000 Sikh children in Bedford but that only a few of these would be baptised. He said: "There's no age limit on children being baptised but it's best if they are grown up and can make their own decisions.



It bothers me that even many Sikhs (new window) are referring to the Amrit Sanchar as a "baptism." Why adopt such Christian language? I'm not going to walk into a church and ask to hold an Amrit Sanchar (new window). I don't understand why anyone would suggest that what goes on in a gurdwara is a "Baptism." The sacred amrit is imbibed in Sikhism, not just sprinkled on them. The religious context is completely different. Not all Sikhs want to be in the Khalsa.


Get uber it. "Baptism" isn't a translation of Amrit Sanchar into Christian, it's a translation of Amrit Sanchar into English.
 
2010-11-15 10:30:53 AM
I see the "religion of peace" is up to its old tricks again.

/nevar forget
 
2010-11-15 10:31:17 AM
An old friend was a very devout Sikh. I never saw the hair on his head or his kirpan. Question: Can the kirpan be blunt and non-pointy?
 
2010-11-15 10:33:12 AM
shivashakti: We're talking Sikhs here. They're not Muslims. They're not terrorists. They're pretty damned peaceful.

This should be repeated. They are actually peaceful buuuut,

However, I would side with any school that does not allow weapons, religious or otherwise. Due to the separation of church and state, a public school also has set of agreed upon rules that get a higher priority than the individual religions should the two coincide. By the same token, the school cannot favor one religion over another.

Your garb only goes as far as the rights of everyone when it comes to weapons.
 
2010-11-15 10:33:19 AM
SO if I have a religion that mandates me to bring a .45 Colt 1911 everywhere I go, that's cool right?
 
2010-11-15 10:33:26 AM
shivashakti: Why is that stupid, submitter? Sikhism is a religion that goes back hundreds of years. It's one of the world's largest religions.

The kirpan is a ceremonial dagger that's never used for cutting anything. It's not even sharpened.

We're talking Sikhs here. They're not Muslims. They're not terrorists. They're pretty damned peaceful.

As long as the person wearing it is a Sikh, and not some thug using it as an excuse to bring a knife to school, why is this a problem?


Because its a knife and we kick kids out of school for sqirt guns in this country buddy, even those little guns action figures have, SAFETY FIRST!!! Separation of church and state, right?

FTA: According to guidelines, the Kirpan should be sheathed and out of sight and should be removed for PE lessons.

Then why cant it be removed for school time? Some are more equal than others?
 
2010-11-15 10:34:43 AM
Bathia_Mapes: Xivero: That's horrible, what with all those kirpan-related stabbings we've been having across the continent. Next thing you know, kids'll be allowed to bring other objects that can be used as weapons into the classroom, such as pencils. Will no one think of the children?

For that matter, what about school compasses? I don't know how sharp they are nowadays, but they used to be sharp enough to injure someone.


My daughter is in middle school, and there is no PE, and there are no shop classes (no wood shop, no plastics, no graphic arts, no metal shop, no auto shop, (and of course no home ec)) because they are alternatively too expensive or too dangerous.

So I am sure there is no need for compasses. We can probably give the kids the proper instruction using virtual compasses.

I got straight a's in jr. high and high, and still, shop classes were the best part.
 
2010-11-15 10:35:42 AM
So... dull knives worn on the person = okay when they're religious.
Paintball guns that are obviously not real guns kept in the car on school property = suspension/expulsion proceedings/ police investigation.

Good to know the the arbitrary line begins right after religion in supposedly secular public schools.
 
2010-11-15 10:36:33 AM
log_jammin: The advice was issued after parents asked for clarification on the issue and states that there should be no objection to the practice of wearing the five Ks.

These include the Kirpan, a steel bangle (Kara), unshorn hair (Kesh) a comb, (Kanga) and special underwear (Kacha).

A religion that requires a dagger, a comb and "special underwear"? where do I sign up?!?!?


This.
 
2010-11-15 10:36:46 AM
Fark Me with a Chainsaw: SO if I have a religion that mandates me to bring a .45 Colt 1911 everywhere I go, that's cool right?

Sure, but the firing pin has to be filed off and the barrel filled with cement.
 
2010-11-15 10:37:53 AM
With all the stories I hear of kids getting expelled for bringing things like nail clippers and toy weapons to school, I think this should not be allowed either.

Making exceptions based on "religious" practice is rediculous. Is this more dangerous than a water pistol? Probabaly since it is made of metal. Also, how would a school administrator rest assured that these are "Always dull" unless they check them?


...Oh I see..... zero tolerance unless it's a foreign religion.
 
2010-11-15 10:38:00 AM
I can't say I see a problem with this. Then again, I tend to be an advocate of self-defense.

But I've always been curious: I can't claim to have much experience with Sikhism, but the few kirpan that I've seen all seem to have a distinctive shape, with sheaths to match, and it looks as though it would be very difficult to get a kirpan out of its sheath. How does that work?
 
2010-11-15 10:38:16 AM
Fark Me with a Chainsaw: SO if I have a religion that mandates me to bring a .45 Colt 1911 everywhere I go, that's cool right?

I carry mine everywhere. It weighs my pants down a bit though. So does the gun.
 
2010-11-15 10:38:57 AM
Makh: shivashakti: We're talking Sikhs here. They're not Muslims. They're not terrorists. They're pretty damned peaceful.

This should be repeated. They are actually peaceful buuuut,

However, I would side with any school that does not allow weapons, religious or otherwise. Due to the separation of church and state, a public school also has set of agreed upon rules that get a higher priority than the individual religions should the two coincide. By the same token, the school cannot favor one religion over another.

Your garb only goes as far as the rights of everyone when it comes to weapons.


+1

Also I am a little bummed nobody's made an AMRIT = AMIRITE pun yet.
 
2010-11-15 10:39:18 AM
Fark Me with a Chainsaw: SO if I have a religion that mandates me to bring a .45 Colt 1911 everywhere I go, that's cool right?


Holy Order of The Gun ????
 
2010-11-15 10:39:25 AM
shivashakti: We're talking Sikhs here. They're not Muslims. They're not terrorists. They're pretty damned peaceful.

Not sure if you're trolling (or being sarcastic). But, if not, Air India Flight 182 would like to have a word with you:

Link (new window)
 
2010-11-15 10:40:17 AM
How much of the acceptance is because the are Sikhs rather than some other religion. I'm farily certain that if christians had some ceremonial dagger they had to wear, at least half of Fark would be totally against them being worn in schools.
 
2010-11-15 10:40:47 AM
Fark Me with a Chainsaw: SO if I have a religion that mandates me to bring a .45 Colt 1911 everywhere I go, that's cool right?

Pattonism?
 
2010-11-15 10:41:36 AM
What's the next weapon they give you? An AK-47?
 
2010-11-15 10:42:07 AM
Somacandra: It bothers me that even many Sikhs (new window) are referring to the Amrit Sanchar as a "baptism." Why adopt such Christian language? I'm not going to walk into a church and ask to hold an Amrit Sanchar (new window). I don't understand why anyone would suggest that what goes on in a gurdwara is a "Baptism." The sacred amrit is imbibed in Sikhism, not just sprinkled on them. The religious context is completely different. Not all Sikhs want to be in the Khalsa.

Because if you go up to the average English speaker, and say, "I'm going to Amrit Sanchar," no one will know what you are talking about. It's the same reason Muslims in the US refer to halal food as 'kosher' when speaking outside their community. The primary function of a word is communication of an idea; if absolutely nobody else knows the word you're using, that word will not convey any meaning to them. You might as well say "Let's go to a tingtangwallawallabingbang."
 
2010-11-15 10:42:28 AM
eiger: Not sure if you're trolling (or being sarcastic). But, if not, Air India Flight 182 would like to have a word with you:

It's almost as though there are extremists in every group, and that making sweeping generalizations about large groups of people (either positive or negative) is going to lead to some inaccuracies.
 
2010-11-15 10:42:45 AM
Great Dane: Also I am a little bummed nobody's made an AMRIT = AMIRITE pun yet.

Damn, I wish I did. It was not my intention to Sikh out puns.
 
2010-11-15 10:42:48 AM
"I have taught for years and have never had an issue with Sikhs wearing the Kirpan. It's more like a knife than a sword. They are not made as weapons."

You mean like what Jack the Ripper used?
 
2010-11-15 10:42:51 AM
A six-inch kirpan plus the scabbard would look pretty big on a grade schooler.

5% theory: The kirpan is meant for use in defence of the innocent, and serves as a constant reminder of the Sikh dedication to non-violence [through the prevention of violence]. There is even a martial art that focuses on its use as a defensive weapon.

95% reality: The only way most Sikhs could injure you with their kirpan is by taking it off and beating you with it. Their kirpans are sacred symbols of their faith and wouldn't be profaned by simply jabbing it into someone who pissed you off in line at the lunch room one day.

But yeah, if he isn't wearing his bracelet then send him packing. I have no sympathy for uppity Easter-and-Christmas Sikhs who carry kirpans just to be edgy.
 
2010-11-15 10:43:08 AM
Students with knives in school? That's just Sikh!
 
2010-11-15 10:44:33 AM
Fukuzawa: Good to know the the arbitrary line begins right after religion in supposedly secular public schools.

Can I point out that the school in question is in England, where state schools are, by law, not secular?
 
2010-11-15 10:44:35 AM
Mark Ratner: What's the next weapon they give you? An AK-47?

You have to work your way up after you wear a belt of firecrackers and hijack a school bus.
 
2010-11-15 10:44:40 AM
ScouserDuck: How much of the acceptance is because the are Sikhs rather than some other religion. I'm farily certain that if christians had some ceremonial dagger they had to wear, at least half of Fark would be totally against them being worn in schools.

When kids are being suspended for gun-related TOYS... boyscout knives or utencils, etc..
Then I'm against this in ANY FORM WHATSOEVER.
I mean... if a reasonable decision can't be made in thie 'zero toleraince' world..
Then why is this acceptable ?
 
2010-11-15 10:44:47 AM
Strik3r: Making exceptions based on "religious" practice is rediculous.

I agree, but I think that the rules to which exceptions are being made are equally ridiculous. I support exceptions like these, not because of freedom of religion per se, but because exceptions to rules like this open up vulnerabilities by which the rule itself might be challenged. In time, the rule itself might be completely overturned. In the meantime, while exceptions like this are not ideal, they're a good start.
 
2010-11-15 10:45:18 AM
ScouserDuck: How much of the acceptance is because the are Sikhs rather than some other religion. I'm farily certain that if christians had some ceremonial dagger they had to wear, at least half of Fark would be totally against them being worn in schools.

This is where you are wrong, I am pretty sure most Farkers don't have a problem with individuals and their religion, they have problems when people try to jam their religion down the throats of the entire school.
 
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