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(The New York Times)   Airline passengers seek to ban the second most annoying thing about flying: children   (travel.nytimes.com) divider line 431
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23803 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2010 at 4:41 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-11-15 05:34:26 AM
I've come to the conclusion that Anglo Saxon societies just aren't capable of dealing with children anymore. Somehow, along the line, they lost it, and decided to outsource everything to TV, games, driving to playdates and hired clowns. The French, the former bearers of the child-unfriendliness-torch, are again green with envy.
 
2010-11-15 05:37:08 AM
Whenever I get off a flight, I put a white fright wig on my son, draw black circles under his eyes and have him run around the airport like a lunatic screaming "Long jaunt! Longer than you think! Long jaunt!"

The people who get it appreciate the effort we've made, I'm sure.
 
BKK
2010-11-15 05:38:08 AM
I always travel with 32 dB earplugs handy. It takes care of snorers, ipods, upset kids, yappers, engine noise, and so much more. They are great for the plane, bus, boat, and hotel. As soon as annoyance sets in in put in the earplugs. Available at drugstores for only $3.99 for 20 pairs. I started using them back when I worked construction and for target shooting.

For seat and traytable bangers, I have a 3 strikes rule and then I raise the issue with the offender. I never have had an ugly scenes, but I don't live in America anymore.

I mostly fly Korean Air where good food, hottie-friendly service, passenger courtesy, and good movies prevail. It is expensive but worth it. Moreover, the beer and wine are free! I flew United once and vowed to never do it again.
 
2010-11-15 05:38:41 AM
see children are one of the reasons i stay awake for a day or two b4 i fly that way once on the plane i pass out for the duration
 
2010-11-15 05:39:27 AM
padraig: Dear Penthouse, I never thought it would ever happen to me....

Yeah, my luck is like a Mac. It doesn't crash on me often, but when it does, it's like it's trying to make up for all the times it didn't.
 
2010-11-15 05:41:08 AM
Wow, lot of good posts in this thread.

Couple thoughts, or non-thoughts probably to some of you:

-Gavino, they have premium. It's just too expensive for most people.

-I think it's a bit ridiculous to call discriminating against newborns a human rights issue. Oh, please. I'm dehumanizing a 2-year-old? How about just being realistic? Babies cry and it's annoying. It's supposed to be.

-People who smell like an Italian sub should just be refused boarding, given a bar of soap, and issued a red-eye. Seriously, fark you.
 
2010-11-15 05:44:15 AM
There's already a section of the plane virtually always baby-free.

Fly FIRST CLASS you whiny dolts!

If you fly back with the peasants your Lordship, you should expect some indignities and shut up about it.
 
2010-11-15 05:44:28 AM
What's the first most annoying thing?

Crashing?
 
2010-11-15 05:47:14 AM
Kids and parents with kids should have to sit in the back.
 
2010-11-15 05:48:19 AM
Wouldn't a good way for it to work be a best-effort thing?

Have a families first section, so that people with kids are put there until it fills up, and people without kids are put in the other section until that fills up, after which it's just wherever you get put?

Wouldn't that make some sense?


littlebadwolf: I always seem to get the person in front of me who insists on putting the seat back. I don't even know why this is an option. It then becomes a fight over who can push harder. Look, if you're 5'2", you don't need to move your seat back and into my legs. If you insist, enjoy having a knee in your back for the next two hours.

Dude, unless it's mealtime the seat thing is for comfort. Put yours back if you feel deprived of space, otherwise quit biatching. The unreasonable person in the situation you described is YOU.
 
2010-11-15 05:48:34 AM
i471.photobucket.com

NEVER leave home without a good pair of earplugs! The pink and yellow one on the left is my favorite. (Was looking for a photo of just that kind, settled for this.) No other device will produce more positive effects for its size when it comes to air travel, and you'll find yourself using them around the house when necessary (snoring spouse, for example).

Ahhhhhhhhh, quiet! (Although hearing your loud heartbeat takes some getting used-to...)
 
2010-11-15 05:49:10 AM
vincentfox: There's already a section of the plane virtually always baby-free.

Fly FIRST CLASS you whiny dolts!

If you fly back with the peasants your Lordship, you should expect some indignities and shut up about it.




Yes, because the company I work for will be absolutely delighted to triple the travel expenses price to the customer I visit overseas.

Flying coach =/= "I give the legal right to every passenger around me to start acting like assholes."
 
2010-11-15 05:50:29 AM
BKK beats me to it! :-)
 
2010-11-15 05:52:01 AM
Shurikane: my luck is like a Mac. It doesn't crash on me often, but when it does, it's like it's trying to make up for all the times it didn't.

dude, I may have to steal that quote
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2010-11-15 05:52:32 AM
When I was a kid, I was good and didn't scream or kick the seat in front of me. No, I was too busy puking everywhere. Back of the plane is no picnic.
 
2010-11-15 05:52:50 AM
FTFA - "So consider traveling with noise-canceling headphones, she advised"


This is a good idea anyway on long-haul. Cuts down a lot of the engine noise and makes sleeping easier. Often I don't even bother listening to anything on them, just stick them in and activate the active noise-cancelling.

It's well worth it.
 
2010-11-15 05:54:27 AM
SuperCatBarf: ModernLuddite: I like plane trips where the college girl is sitting next to the middle aged business man, and the HOURS of bizarre, awkward flirting. And the fear in the poor girl's eyes. Oh, the fear.....

Interesting strategy. A middle aged businessman is a great "worse choice" relative to a creepy hipster who likes to make unwanted, lingering advances to captive college women on airplanes.



Regarding a captive audience: I once sat with a guy who tried to concince me to accept Jesus Christ as my savior for the entire flight between Albuquerque and Chicago. It wasn't even an argument. He just kept talking and I kept saying "uh huh" without making eye contact.

Last year they had to cancel the first leg of a flight because someone on the prior flight (same plane) puked. You wouldn't think it would be a big deal, but they have to have a hazmat-trained crew clean it up. And in the process, they also ended up getting sick and puking.

The flight was cancelled after they determined that they would have to change out the carpet in the plane. (MD-80 sized plane.)

All I could think was that it must have been incredibly disgusting.

/Flying to Austin this week.
//There are worse things than a chatty neighbor.
///I ALWAYS pop a dramamine and 2 pepto before a flight.
 
2010-11-15 05:56:10 AM
TFA:

But all the crying in the world - from children or adults...

Describes the issue perfectly.
 
2010-11-15 05:58:07 AM
I find it amusing to read posts from those who find this issue moot because they think passengers who haven't bathed are more offensive than screaming children. The fact is it's really all the same basic annoyance - disdain for uncivilized and inappropriate behavior.

/some of us just have ears that work better than our noses
 
2010-11-15 05:58:10 AM
Satan's Dumptruck Driver: SuperCatBarf: ModernLuddite:.


///I ALWAYS pop a dramamine and 2 pepto before a flight.


in high-school I once ate 12 deamamine because I heard it would fark you up

/they were right
//30 minute conversation with someone who was not there
///and the black-light reactive spiders
////do not recommend trying it
 
2010-11-15 05:59:00 AM
Having kid sections would be tacky.
Fourth class passengers.

It would be immediately lowering expectations of both the kids and the parents who should control thier kids. I am certain the whole plane would suffer.

Ewen my otherwise perfectly flight friendly child might try to pull shiat in the 'kids' section.
Some parents would make no effort to keep thier brats quiet. Plus kids would get excited around a bunch of other kids.
The section is a bad idea.
 
2010-11-15 06:07:01 AM
Shurikane:
Yes, because the company I work for will be absolutely delighted to triple the travel expenses price to the customer I visit overseas.



You must mistake me for a parent who gives a crap about your lousy job working for cheapskates. The airline crams us together in a tube and I'll make all efforts to make it an easy flight, but at the end of the day, we each need to hold our noses and bear it. The airline does it for money. All variations on comfort like "we're going to add more legroom" usually crash and burn because they are not as PROFITABLE as packing them in. How'd that Hooters Air thing do? Yeah. Whiners. The flying public and corporations VOTED with money already what kind of airlines they want. You want cheap and nasty not good and you got it.
 
2010-11-15 06:08:32 AM
I fly Jetblue mostly where there's a t.v. in every seat. Seems to me that once the flight is in the air and the they can watch it most kids settle down. Every airline should have this.
 
2010-11-15 06:08:49 AM
Fellows:
Yes, please. Try to jam that overfilled duffel bag into the above compartment into the first bin you see filled with every imaginable item necessary for your six-week hiking trip while everyone behind you just stands there and waits. No go on, we don't mind.


...and make sure you do it in the locker right next to the door before sauntering down to the other end of the 'plane looking for a nice place to sit.
 
2010-11-15 06:13:17 AM
boozeworthy.com
 
2010-11-15 06:22:31 AM
Kids are okay. Its the people who apparently go deaf as soon as they breed who I'd like to choke.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2010-11-15 06:23:48 AM
avictor: Having kid sections would be tacky.
Fourth class passengers.


Can't we just put them in the cargo hold??

/Is that the talking dog!!??
 
2010-11-15 06:25:50 AM
I'd rather sit with a wiggly kid than someone that thinks I give a rat's ass about his divorce. Just cause I look like your mom doesn't mean I care.
 
2010-11-15 06:28:29 AM
AirForceVet: Wrong_Intentions: I still think they should give us all heavy narcotic sedatives before the flight. We'll all be cool and mellow, including the imaginary hijackers that lurk on every flight.

While it would be an interesting trip, in more ways than one, flight safety really needs passengers with clear minds. Remember, you are in a metal cigar, flying at high altitudes and high speed, in a very hostile environment.

Better to be straight in case of an accident, IMHO.

/Former USAF aircrew.


Hmmm....I would tend to agree at first, but in the case of an aircraft full of untrained and panicky civilians Ill go with the doped up idea.

Panicked up women and the couple of guys who "saw something on the internet about how to handle this" really just need to sit down and STFU.
 
2010-11-15 06:29:58 AM
I have three kids and none of them ever made a noise on a flight.

There are annoying assholes of all ages. I sat next to a man who coughed his lungs up the whole flight.

They should only allow people between 110-210 lbs and ages 18-39, in perfect health of course.
 
2010-11-15 06:30:54 AM
Tamyu: I would have LOVED to have some little spot to whisk him off to until he was quiet again.

Let's talk about the 70% of the flight now, where they demand you MUST be in your seat and have your belt fastened. Try telling a tired 1 or 2-year old I'm sorry you have to sit down you can't go potty for the next HOUR even though it is right next to us because the attendants will club us if we try for it. You know I cannot stress enough, how people without kids do not understand there is a world of difference between a 6-year old who you can have conversations and discipline talks, and one who's 2 and HAS TO GO NOW and really doesn't understand your complex world yet.

Or let's talk about you finally get them to sleep, and they start BOOPING those bells and the captain comes on at FULL VOLUME to tell us drinks will be served. Or the passengers in front want to talk over your heads to their friends behind you.

It's no bed of roses flying with small children, we do it because we must. And my money is the same as the ant-kid people I've flown with. One pinned me in the concourse after a flight and started berating me about how he'd paid FULL PRICE and was inconvenienced by my child. Well you know what, I paid FULL PRICE for an economy seat for him too, and there is no ranking system for airlines you have money they will seat you.
 
pla
2010-11-15 06:36:06 AM
I think TFA, and most posters so far, have missed the "real" problem here.

Not that we allow children to fly...
Not even that parents have apparently lost the will to control their lardflakes...

But rather, that it has for some inexplicable reason become socially unacceptable (hell, an outright crime in most cases) for a stranger to discipline someone else's kids.

Children respond to (substantiated) threats of pain, simple as that. You cannot rationalize with them, because they do not count as small adults, as much as every parent loves to brag about how "mature" and smart they consider their Precious Little. Their brains don't reach the level of cause-and-effect that makes discussion a suitable replacement until 9-12 years old, just before puberty (and for several years after that, well, they may have the mental capacity, but hormones make them more obnoxious than ever).

So really, we don't so much care about child-free flights. We just want the rights to
1) Ask a kid to shut up without glaring parents
2) As the parents to shut a kid up without them getting defensive
3) Shut the kid up ourselves when the parents won't.

Simple as that.
 
2010-11-15 06:36:46 AM
Satan's Dumptruck Driver:
Regarding a captive audience: I once sat with a guy who tried to concince me to accept Jesus Christ as my savior for the entire flight between Albuquerque and Chicago. It wasn't even an argument. He just kept talking and I kept saying "uh huh" without making eye contact.


------

Well, there's your problem. The correct response would have been "I worship satan and we practice human sacrifice, followed by a barbecue. Have you ever tasted freshly-slaughtered baby? It's to DIE for!"
 
2010-11-15 06:43:13 AM
vincentfox: One pinned me in the concourse after a flight and started berating me about how he'd paid FULL PRICE and was inconvenienced by my child.

I have a million times more tolerance and respect for families who at least try to do something about their kid than for those who do not.

I had to do a long haul recently, Montreal-Paris. Mom, dad, two kids. If the first didn't start acting up, the other did. Both parents tried to deal with it the best they could, trying every trick in the book to get their children to quiet down. Sure, I didn't sleep much on that night, but I give those guys a grade A and an army salute for effort.

This is in comparison to kids whose parents are either unresponsive or just plain absent somehow. In the latter case, it's usually because those were last-minute tickets and the family members get scattered across the plane (they usually check up with each other soon as the seatbelt sign gets turned off and try to switch seats so everyone can be together, which is excellent) but there's been the odd flight now and then where I see a group of a dozen persons and none of them (aside from the flight attendant guiding them to the gate) is any more than three apples tall. Instant alarm bells right there.
 
2010-11-15 06:44:35 AM
vincentfox

Some day scientists will find the chemical in the brain that alters parents so drastically. What happens in your head that creates such a remarkable sense of arrogance that you could actually write, "people without kids do not understand there is a world of difference between a 6-year old who you can have conversations and discipline talks, and one who's 2 and HAS TO GO NOW and really doesn't understand your complex world yet."?


Do you really believe that only someone who has raised children of his own can fathom the developmental differences of children those ages? Do you think being a parent has imparted some special wisdom on the subjects of biology and psychology?

I'll let you in on the secret - it's not that the rest of us can't understand why your kid is screaming, it's that we don't care. We just want less screaming. No explanations about the source of said screaming, just less of it.

But I'll be happy to read a treatise on how my primitive, never-fathered-a-child brain can't comprehend the complexities of your argument.
 
2010-11-15 06:44:37 AM
pla: I think TFA, and most posters so far, have missed the "real" problem here.

Not that we allow children to fly...
Not even that parents have apparently lost the will to control their lardflakes...

But rather, that it has for some inexplicable reason become socially unacceptable (hell, an outright crime in most cases) for a stranger to discipline someone else's kids.

Children respond to (substantiated) threats of pain, simple as that. You cannot rationalize with them, because they do not count as small adults, as much as every parent loves to brag about how "mature" and smart they consider their Precious Little. Their brains don't reach the level of cause-and-effect that makes discussion a suitable replacement until 9-12 years old, just before puberty (and for several years after that, well, they may have the mental capacity, but hormones make them more obnoxious than ever).

So really, we don't so much care about child-free flights. We just want the rights to
1) Ask a kid to shut up without glaring parents
2) As the parents to shut a kid up without them getting defensive
3) Shut the kid up ourselves when the parents won't.

Simple as that.


let me guess you have no kids

/i have no kids and that sounds like it has bad news written all over it
 
2010-11-15 06:46:23 AM
AirForceVet: Wrong_Intentions: I still think they should give us all heavy narcotic sedatives before the flight. We'll all be cool and mellow, including the imaginary hijackers that lurk on every flight.

While it would be an interesting trip, in more ways than one, flight safety really needs passengers with clear minds. Remember, you are in a metal cigar, flying at high altitudes and high speed, in a very hostile environment.

Better to be straight in case of an accident, IMHO.

/Former USAF aircrew.


Better be able to think straight when those 400 tons of steel take you towards the ground like a farking dart.

The only good point I can think of in being wide awake is watching the screaming kids being sucked out through the hole in the hull.

/not sure the attendants would bring me my cocktail at this point but It'd be appreciated.
 
2010-11-15 06:51:23 AM
vincentfox

because the attendants will club us if we try for it.

No they won't. Tend to your toddler. Nobody is going to complain. Seriously - especially if you're right next to the bathroom. Just make a break for it. He'll be done in a minute or two, and the worst that will come of it is you might be told by the flight attendants that the rules are in place for a reason, blah blah blah. Do your best to appear apologetic.

That one is easy. The uncontrollable crying part? Solutions vary from kid to kid, and unfortunately sometimes they just won't shut up. You have my sympathy if you're actively trying to do something about it. Come prepared. And I'd say the same goes for the other fliers, too - bring earplugs. They're cheap.
 
2010-11-15 06:52:03 AM
I hate when Carrottop sits next to me on a plane.
 
2010-11-15 06:57:00 AM
images.cheezburger.com

Red Green know how to shut kids up.
 
2010-11-15 07:04:37 AM
Yes! Ban kids. And fatties. And people who wear too much cologne. And folks with tiny little bladders who keep getting coffee refills and then pop up and down to go to the head constantly. And loud talkers. And farters. And people who reek of cigarette smoke. And guys who feel it necessary to stand in the middle of the aisle, carefully folding their sportcoats and then ever so gently placing them in the overhead bin. And people in front of you who want to recline seats. And people behind you who won't let you recline. And people who bring stinky meals aboard. And gum-snappers.

Basically, everyone but me. (Farts.) No, wait! Not me too, aaaaaahhhhhh!
 
2010-11-15 07:10:44 AM
I mean how hard can it be? The first time your kids fly, just tell them that if they move around too much, the plane will tip over, fall out of the sky and everyone will die.
 
2010-11-15 07:14:57 AM
Ban my children from flying?

Go fark yourself. How about that?
 
2010-11-15 07:17:22 AM
Like others above, I travel a great deal too -- just got back from Soviet Russia on Saturday. I really don't see crying kid problems that much; especially this time of year. Next week there'll be some.

What bugs me is (1) those who don't shower (even the occasional stinky women-phew!), and (2) those who are sick. One big guy two seats over was hacking up his lungs and sneezing on my shorter flight on Sat. I'll take a crying baby over someone spewing viruses and germs in the cabin any day.

Oh and learn to go through the Xray. You do NOT need a bin for your shoes or your bags. Just toss 'em on the belt.

And learn to get the fark off the plane in a timely manner. When it's my turn, I'm up with my stuff and moving down the aisle. There are so many who are cluelessly surprised that it's time to get off the plane so maybe now they should start looking for their stuff but oh I forgot what I left in the seat pocket and hmm I wonder which overhead I used to stow my giant bag that really didn't fit up there and won't come out now?
 
2010-11-15 07:18:02 AM
Ban my children from flying?

Go fark yourself. How about that?


I see we've reached the logical stage of the fark thread.

1. No one here has argued for an outright ban of any children (let alone yours specifically) from the skies.

2. If anyone had, I'm sure he/she would have come up with more cogent reasoning than "go fark yourself."
 
2010-11-15 07:19:34 AM
Let's just shut down all businesses and have the government pay CEOs 100 billion a year directly.
 
2010-11-15 07:24:28 AM
Gavino

Think they call that First class and Business class there matey.
 
2010-11-15 07:27:02 AM
betona: You do NOT need a bin for your shoes

Except when you do. During a flight last month, on the outbound leg the TSA goon is standing there yelling at people not to put shoes in the bins "to keep them clean." And on the return trip, the TSA goon at that airport was yelling at people to put shoes in the bins so the laces wouldn't get hung up on stuff.

/The TSA can just fark right the hell off
 
2010-11-15 07:29:44 AM
betona: Like others above, I travel a great deal too -- just got back from Soviet Russia on Saturday. I really don't see crying kid problems that much; especially this time of year. Next week there'll be some.

What bugs me is (1) those who don't shower (even the occasional stinky women-phew!), and (2) those who are sick. One big guy two seats over was hacking up his lungs and sneezing on my shorter flight on Sat. I'll take a crying baby over someone spewing viruses and germs in the cabin any day.

Oh and learn to go through the Xray. You do NOT need a bin for your shoes or your bags. Just toss 'em on the belt.

And learn to get the fark off the plane in a timely manner. When it's my turn, I'm up with my stuff and moving down the aisle. There are so many who are cluelessly surprised that it's time to get off the plane so maybe now they should start looking for their stuff but oh I forgot what I left in the seat pocket and hmm I wonder which overhead I used to stow my giant bag that really didn't fit up there and won't come out now?


Are you a time traveler?
 
2010-11-15 07:31:30 AM
Don't forget! Just like you need to put all your 3.4-ounce-or-less toiletries in your Freedom Baggie, babies should also be placed in a similar bag for travel.

www.thingamababy.com
 
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