Robin Perfect calls the ordeal "a nightmare."

Well, then STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE.

djkutch: Perfect couple signs a contract with the HOA when buying the property, but doesn't want to honor it. Yay for Crapo capitalism.


It's not even like they have a home and lawn. They live in a Condo and put the flag up in the commons area. That's no different then sticking a flag pole in the an area of your apartment building.

Republican U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo has written a letter backing the Perfects, citing a federal law he says protects the couple's rights to fly the flag.

Sure, on their property. But that doesn't give them a right to stick flags where ever they want and expect them to stay there.

I'm not sick but I'm not well...

/Flag pole sitter.

The only winning move is not to play.

djkutch: HOA's are a necessity for properties with shared common walls, common areas and private streets.

Except for the latter, no they aren't.

Copper Ranch Homeowners' Association trumps Republican U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo? What's wrong with this picture?

An HOA gives you a contractually-enforceable right to tell those kids to get off your lawn. So at least there's that.

Nakito: An HOA gives you a contractually-enforceable right to tell those kids to get off your lawn. So at least there's that.

So does a shotgun full of rock salt, right?

Fences, big dogs, landmines, tripwires, all good.

You bought a home with an HOA and now you don't like the rules?

Veteran of the Cola Wars: I'm not sick but I'm not well...

/Flag pole sitter.

WINNAR!

If the agreement is overly heinous, chances are you can go to court and invalidate that part, if you have the time and money.


Just wanted to say that while HOA's are usually of the Devil, Neighborhood Associations are a different thing entirely, and well worth forming or joining. What's the diff? The Neighborhood Association is voluntary and charges little or no dues. What they do is come together to work on local neighborhood beautification projects, coordinate block parties or all-street garage sale days, things like that. They also handle Neighborhood crimewatch and make your voice heard more effectively in your alderman's office and local council. The "busybody factor" is very very low; instead of stupid covenants, they rely on the fact that everybody knows one another in the Association and they wouldn't want to do things that make them feel or look like dumbasses to their neighbors. Subtle social pressure of the community.

What everyone else said.

No one likes HOAs, but if you bought your condo in a place with one, you agreed to the rules. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. But, don't just break the rules because you think you're special.

If you join a country club, you have to abide by their dress code on the links, even is your Zubaz are an American Flag print.

I think HOAs are just as retarded as everyone else, and I would never, ever own any property that had one, but for fark sake--put a flag in the window or something.

Oh no--we're going to call our buddy the Senator!!

Why not just go to the HOA meeting and request a change to the bi-laws? My HOA is downright reasonable on most things. I do think its interesting to see what kind of arbitrary power some people try to wield, but usually cooler heads prevail.

From what I've read over the years, I'm apparently lucky

I'm bi-law cutiuos.

Hahaha ... you've signed up for a private association with UNLIMITED LIABILITY and you're whining about a flag rule?

Oh, and they can change the rules under which you bought your property at will.

/I love fascism.

The article doesn't say much, but I can see not allowing them to fly the flag in the common area. Is there some reason they can't fly it from their condo with a wall mount?

HOAs can't ban the flying of the U.S. flag, but they can regulate how it's displayed.

/approves

djkutch:

HOA's are a necessity for properties with shared common walls, common areas and private streets. It's typically seen with condos and townhomes. And, uniformity helps protect property values. So, it's probably socialist.

Know what you are buying into, rugged individualists.

/manages hoas

Last time I checked, CC&Rs without HOAs and easements can define these rules, and if one avoids the foolishness of having private streets in the first place then this isn't an issue.

My wife and I are in the process of buying a home. We had looked at one home that had an HOA. We didn't really like the idea of a fee or rules, but we figured that it might be okay depending on the price. We found the HOA's founding rules in the county records, and after reading forty-eight pages of rules, most of which took away rights from the property owner and made the property owner liable for stupid things like a decorative inset block on an otherwise public street (that didn't even go in front of the house that we were looking at!) we said no way. They even regulated if you wanted to plant a rosebush in the front yard, and what you had to do if a plant died!

We found another home less than half a mile away with a fairly loose set of CC&Rs that basically prohibit non-television antennas being visible on the roof and prohibit air conditioners on the roof. No HOA, no fees, and if one has to redress a problem with a neighbor violating one of the covenants, one goes through the city.

HOAs, in my opinion, are a good way to make people pay essentially another tax and to let the municipality shirk responsibility for code enforcement and for maintenance of areas for the common use of the community. A fair set of laws, building codes, CC&Rs, and an active municipal government means that one doesn't need an HOA.

Nakito: An HOA gives you a contractually-enforceable right to tell those kids to get off your lawn. So at least there's that.

As long as said contract does not have any provisions that violate state or federal laws in which case the contract is rendered invalid. I'm not saying that's the case here, just saying.

Saturn5: Is there some reason they can't fly it from their condo with a wall mount?

They don't own the wall. In condos, everything on the exterior of your house is not owned by you. The Wall that you are porposing they mount it on is the "Common Area" they are talking about.

Gecko Gingrich: I want to buy a home in their community -- preferably next door to these folks -- and fly an Iraqi flag.

I'm with ya. I'll fly an Armenian one in honor of one of my best friends and his family. They're still alive and kicking.

STFU and take the flag down, Farkstick

Tainted1: As long as said contract does not have any provisions that violate state or federal laws in which case the contract is rendered invalid.

Talk to a local lawyer some time: they'll tell you that the bill for making your HOA obey federal/state/local laws starts at $50,000 -- and that assumes that you can find a county judge that is on your side.

In Washington state a high percentage of HOAs end up in court. Ours pissed away $175,0000 over one such issue -- and was just lucky that there weren't punitive damages assessed against them.

By the way, $175,000 was $1,000 out of every homeowner's pocket.

TWX: HOAs, in my opinion, are a good way to make people pay essentially another tax and to let the municipality shirk responsibility for code enforcement and for maintenance of areas for the common use of the community. A fair set of laws, building codes, CC&Rs, and an active municipal government means that one doesn't need an HOA.

Where I live, "Municipalities" are the exception and not the rule. The lowest level of government we have is the County. HOAs are prevalent.

Freedom of speech has consequences?
Tell me it ain't so.

The Homer Tax: Saturn5: Is there some reason they can't fly it from their condo with a wall mount?

They don't own the wall. In condos, everything on the exterior of your house is not owned by you. The Wall that you are porposing they mount it on is the "Common Area" they are talking about.

I didn't gleen that from the article.

Y'all americans are weird with your mountain men and your libertarians and then your HOAs, pages of rules and concern over property values.

Although I generally agree that if you sign an agreement to abide by X rule, then you can't complain when X rule is enforced. the exception would be when the law specifically forbids the condo association from having X rule, which happens to be the case here. A quick google search turned up this Senate doc which states on page 14...

The Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 200556 prohibits a condominium, cooperative, or real estate management association from adopting or enforcing any policy or agreement that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag in accordance with the Federal Flag Code on residential property to which the member has a separate ownership interest.

It's as if the government thought "wow condo and coop's might be dickish enough to prohibit people from flying the flag of this country" so they and decided to say "no, you can't prohibit this".
This puts him in the right and the condo assn in the wrong, and if they push the issue he can probably sue THEM and get all his lawyer fees back too.

Saturn5: The Homer Tax: Saturn5: Is there some reason they can't fly it from their condo with a wall mount?

They don't own the wall. In condos, everything on the exterior of your house is not owned by you. The Wall that you are porposing they mount it on is the "Common Area" they are talking about.

I didn't gleen that from the article.

That's because it wasn't in the article. It was in how condos operate. That's why I informed you of it :)

Francis Walsingham: /approves

But I live here!

//came for this and leaving satisfied

Omnivorous: Tainted1: As long as said contract does not have any provisions that violate state or federal laws in which case the contract is rendered invalid.

Talk to a local lawyer some time: they'll tell you that the bill for making your HOA obey federal/state/local laws starts at $50,000 -- and that assumes that you can find a county judge that is on your side.

In Washington state a high percentage of HOAs end up in court. Ours pissed away $175,0000 over one such issue -- and was just lucky that there weren't punitive damages assessed against them.

By the way, $175,000 was $1,000 out of every homeowner's pocket.

Was it worth it?

zahadum party planner: The Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 200556 prohibits a condominium, cooperative, or real estate management association from adopting or enforcing any policy or agreement that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag in accordance with the Federal Flag Code on residential property to which the member has a separate ownership interest.

The problem is, that with the law you cited as written, it doesn't apply here because the member doesn't have an ownership interest. In a condo, you don't own the exterior of your property. All that law does is prevent the HOW from banning you from displaying the flag inside your condo (the part you own). That's why the rule says "you can't fly flags in the common property." The exterior of your condo isn't yours, it's common property.

Gwendolyn: HOAs farking suck. However this is a case of you thinking to you are too damn special for the rules to apply to you. Take down the freaking flag and shut the hell up.

Why move into a place with an HOA ever?

I like not having to worry about acres of land flooding every time it rains due to the HOA taking care of the retention ponds.

For the assholes out there, I didn't choose to live where I'm currently living. I farking hate the beach, but I applied for over 200 jobs in the span of about seven months. I guess I could have continued being a line cook and not have to worry about flat land, but that would have been stupid as I didn't want to drown in student loans.