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(MLive.com)   ACLU urging public schools to allow more felon volunteers. The line...I think they've crossed it   (mlive.com) divider line 109
    More: Asinine, background checks, ACLU, Battle Creek, representative democracy, bad checks, legal defense, Kent County, legal counsel  
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2562 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Nov 2010 at 11:47 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



109 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2010-11-10 09:44:45 AM  
I would suppose it would depend on the felony they committed. But it might be good to have some of those folks telling kids scary stories from the inside.
 
2010-11-10 09:47:27 AM  
Why don't we put all felons on a rocket and shoot them to the moon. They are no longer human, am I right?!
 
2010-11-10 09:47:50 AM  
This will end well.

On the one hand, we have tons of non-violent felons, thanks to drug wars and other stuff that wouldn't have rated a minimum felony conviction but does now.

On the other hand, we have the truly violent who get out of prison too soon or have plea bargained down some pretty heinous stuff; and no real way to sort out who is who.

If the criminal justice system can't follow felons competently after release -- we saw that in Washington State recently as Arkansas under Huckabee sent us a cop killing asshat who was listed as having met his parole -- how would a school district be expected to background check these guys?

ACLU swing and a miss. And as a parent I would be delighted to welcome some of these fine upstanding citizens back into close contact with my kids, too. I think its a measure of how far our public schools have fallen that this is even being considered by the schools.
 
2010-11-10 09:49:24 AM  
Once you've done your time you've repaid your debt to society. I realize it makes you all warm on the inside to punish people forever but we have rules here.
 
2010-11-10 09:49:32 AM  
And then the thought that hey, the schools are already like prisons, why not add real prisoners!
 
2010-11-10 09:49:45 AM  
No parent should be arbitrarily banned from participating in public school. Considering the amount of repeat offenders, those that actually have been rehabilitated should be allowed to participate in civic life as some kind of example -- not branded with a scarlet letter.
 
2010-11-10 09:50:10 AM  
Parents. Volunteer parents.

If you got a felony DUI ten years ago I don't see why you can't serve in the lunch line, or read stories to kids.
 
2010-11-10 09:51:17 AM  
Yeah, committing mail fraud when you're 19 should keep you from volunteering at your kid's school when you're 41.
 
2010-11-10 09:51:39 AM  
To Barbigazi: There's a big difference between "served your debt to society as defined at the time of your sentence" and "wanting the results of the criminal justice system anywhere near my kids." Big difference. 180 night and day if you can't see it you won't get it difference. I realize this is teabagger territory, but some people have a fear of felons thats justified, and shouldn't be expected to have to let their children get around them. The schools have enough time weeding out pot smoking bus drivers, how in the hell do you think they'll be able to screen properly whether a convict is actually non violent after release ?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-11-10 09:54:42 AM  
"But it gets difficult because student safety trumps all."

I'm sorry, Mr. Helmholt, but you have just justified a policy with a "for the children" argument and both you and the policy need to go now.
 
2010-11-10 09:55:02 AM  
Generation_D: some people have a fear of felons

All legislation should be driven by what the population fears.
 
2010-11-10 09:55:30 AM  
EvilEgg: I would suppose it would depend on the felony they committed. But it might be good to have some of those folks telling kids scary stories from the inside.

"Billy, quick picking on Kevin. You know, I remember this one time a dude had been punking out his celly and the celly finally got tired of it and shanked that bastard in his sleep. You better watch your ass, Billy."
 
2010-11-10 09:55:38 AM  
Generation_D: To Barbigazi: There's a big difference between "served your debt to society as defined at the time of your sentence" and "wanting the results of the criminal justice system anywhere near my kids." Big difference. 180 night and day if you can't see it you won't get it difference. I realize this is teabagger territory, but some people have a fear of felons thats justified, and shouldn't be expected to have to let their children get around them. The schools have enough time weeding out pot smoking bus drivers, how in the hell do you think they'll be able to screen properly whether a convict is actually non violent after release ?

Once a criminal always a criminal, why not just lock them up forever?
 
2010-11-10 09:56:54 AM  
Of course the ACLU is right, but I doubt it will happen. School districts are scared sh*tless of lawsuits, so they have to make sure that administrators have no discretion. This is the reason for all zero tolerance policies.
 
2010-11-10 10:07:12 AM  
They can't volunteer, they have to work in the lunch line.
 
2010-11-10 10:08:58 AM  
Barbigazi: Once a criminal always a criminal, why not just lock them up forever?

Yep, one mistake should mark someone with a Scarlet Letter for life! I mean, it's not like pushing someone to the outskirts of society and denying them any decently paying jobs would force them to turn to further crime just to survive, amiright? Or saying they are worthless by denying them the chance to volunteer at their kid's school would ever lead to depression and problems at home, amiright?
 
2010-11-10 10:17:55 AM  
t2.gstatic.com
 
2010-11-10 10:19:20 AM  
Just what do you think these volunteer non-violent felons are going to DO in the school? What exactly are you afraid of? That the guy who's registered w/the district & checked in at the principal office for the day is going to snatch your kid? Or sell them drugs? Seriously, where's this fear coming from?

My white-trash sister-in-law is a non-violent felon who did time for welfare fraud. Should she not be allowed to volunteer at a school because she might...ummm, I don't know, illegally claim your kid as a dependent or something?
 
2010-11-10 10:25:06 AM  
Case by case, please.
 
2010-11-10 10:32:15 AM  
Alphax: Case by case, please.

But critical thinking is HARD!
 
2010-11-10 10:32:21 AM  
The rap sheets of the students in Grand Rapids would make the volunteers look like saints.
 
2010-11-10 10:38:16 AM  
Dread Pirate Slasher: EvilEgg: I would suppose it would depend on the felony they committed. But it might be good to have some of those folks telling kids scary stories from the inside.

"Billy, quick picking on Kevin. You know, I remember this one time a dude had been punking out his celly and the celly finally got tired of it and shanked that bastard in his sleep. You better watch your ass, Billy."


In all this concern about past felons, what about the future felons!? How do we keep those children away from my children!?
 
2010-11-10 10:41:44 AM  
Generation_D: To Barbigazi: There's a big difference between "served your debt to society as defined at the time of your sentence" and "wanting the results of the criminal justice system anywhere near my kids." Big difference. 180 night and day if you can't see it you won't get it difference. I realize this is teabagger territory, but some people have a fear of felons thats justified, and shouldn't be expected to have to let their children get around them. The schools have enough time weeding out pot smoking bus drivers, how in the hell do you think they'll be able to screen properly whether a convict is actually non violent after release ?

So if you got a DUI at eighteen they should have every right to never let you set foot on the grounds of your child's school?
 
2010-11-10 10:51:23 AM  
Generation_D: we have tons of non-violent felons, thanks to drug wars

BUBUBUT THOSE FELON PARENTS WILL GIVE MY KIDS DRUGS RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!

In all honesty, I can't think of a single felony that a school board wouldn't balk at. Grand theft? They might steal our A/V equipment. Murder? They might KILL the kids! Drugs? Well... we all know where that would lead. And, of course, kiddy diddling is right out, as it should be.
 
2010-11-10 10:52:07 AM  
ecmoRandomNumbers: Alphax: Case by case, please.

But critical thinking is HARD!


Especially since the vast majority of schools these days all have "zero-tolerance" policies on ... well, EVERYTHING.
 
2010-11-10 10:53:06 AM  
You could try RTFA, subby. What the ACLU is suggesting is quite reasonable.
 
2010-11-10 10:53:10 AM  
I guess the real question is "Can a school prevent you from having access to your child without a court order?".
 
2010-11-10 10:54:48 AM  
Fun Fact: The ACLU was founded by a Jewish girl hiding in an attic.
 
2010-11-10 10:55:31 AM  
vernonFL: Fun Fact: The ACLU was founded by a Jewish girl hiding in an attic.

That's pretty impressive for a girl who couldn't see or hear.
 
2010-11-10 11:01:38 AM  
Considering a lot of those felons were inside for nonviolent drug offenses- why not? They can educate our kids about how dumb our drug laws are.
 
2010-11-10 11:03:35 AM  
susansto-helit: So if you got a DUI at eighteen they should have every right to never let you set foot on the grounds of your child's school?

In what shiat hole state is DUI a felony?
 
2010-11-10 11:09:01 AM  
xanadian: ecmoRandomNumbers: Alphax: Case by case, please.

But critical thinking is HARD!

Especially since the vast majority of schools these days all have "zero-tolerance" policies on ... well, EVERYTHING.


Don't get me started. I retired from teaching this year, and I'm only 36. It's time to go back to school and do something else. I'm thinking pharmacology because people are ALWAYS going to need drugs.
 
2010-11-10 11:16:37 AM  
Zero tolerance programs are designed to relieve those in charge of any logic or thought precesses... oh, and they are ridiculous.


Spearheading the drive is Wendy Cross, mother of four students, who said she could not chaperone field trips, go unescorted inside the school, or speak to her children's friends at school because of a decade-old bad checks conviction.
 
2010-11-10 11:21:46 AM  
tweekster: susansto-helit: So if you got a DUI at eighteen they should have every right to never let you set foot on the grounds of your child's school?

In what shiat hole state is DUI a felony?


Apparently they exist.
 
2010-11-10 11:22:11 AM  
Generation_D: I realize this is teabagger territory, but

I'll quote this as a public service. If you ever find yourself typing these words, just stop. Whatever you have to say afterwards will inevitably be retarded.
 
2010-11-10 11:23:43 AM  
Why do we even pretend to care about civil rights? At this point, we should just be honest without selves and say we care about civil rights, but only if the community at large approves and isn't scared.
 
2010-11-10 11:25:42 AM  
susansto-helit: Apparently they exist.

The only thing I could find was when dealing with multiple offenses.
 
2010-11-10 11:37:54 AM  
Aarontology: Why do we even pretend to care about civil rights? At this point, we should just be honest without selves and say we care about civil rights, but only if the community at large approves and isn't scared.

If we're going to be honest we might as well be completely honest and say we don't give two shiats about anyone's civil rights except our own.
 
2010-11-10 11:49:12 AM  
asinine is for submitter, right?

because this is a straight up troll headline.
 
2010-11-10 11:50:50 AM  
Silly ACLU: Redemption is Un-American!*


*Fund managers for Morgan Stanley exempt, obviously.
 
2010-11-10 11:51:19 AM  
tweekster: susansto-helit: Apparently they exist.

The only thing I could find was when dealing with multiple offenses.


Well, that makes it OK to ban them from school property, then.
 
2010-11-10 11:51:21 AM  
Yes, because refusing help from people based solely on arbitrary labels they received based on a wide variety of potential actions they may have committed some unspecified period of time in the past without an consideration for the countless variables involved in that labeling is excellent policy, submidiot.

/ actually thinking about things within an appropriate context is hard
// thank god we have the label "submitter" to identify the people who are too stupid to be given serious consideration
 
2010-11-10 11:52:27 AM  
Is it a black neighborhood?
 
2010-11-10 11:52:29 AM  
Felons should not be trusted, given a job or in any way treated like a human. Rehabilitation is not possible for them. They should be shunned and made to feel dehumanized so that they will go on to do whatever it is they were going to do anyway to get themselves locked up again for a very long time. Hopefully it will be something horrific and tragic and the press will be there.
 
2010-11-10 11:53:49 AM  
susansto-helit: Well, that makes it OK to ban them from school property, then.

You chose a bad example, just admit it. And yes, repeat offenders should have limited access to school property.
 
2010-11-10 11:55:12 AM  
Splinshints: Yes, because refusing help from people based solely on arbitrary labels they received based on a wide variety of potential actions they may have committed some unspecified period of time in the past without an consideration for the countless variables involved in that labeling is excellent policy, submidiot.

You make "convict" sound like such a subjective term, when it has very concrete meaning.

And yes, I believe people should still be able to make judgment calls. I don't think the guy who messed with a mailbox as a teenager is a permanent menace to society.
 
2010-11-10 11:55:57 AM  
i79.photobucket.com


Not amused.......


/better not be obscure....
//amazed it hasn't already been brought up
///you farkers are slipping this morning
////slash!!
 
2010-11-10 11:56:13 AM  
Back in my day, we didn't give felons jobs. We gave them to illegal immigrants and then we complained that the illegal immigrants were taking all our jobs and then the felons went back to crime and then they went back to prison and so we built more prisons and hired more guards and they became a huge union and lobbied for tougher sentences and more prisons and so we ended up paying taxes to support prisoners and prison guards and illegal immigrants and that's the way it was and we LIKED IT!
 
2010-11-10 11:56:21 AM  
EvilEgg: I would suppose it would depend on the felony they committed. But it might be good to have some of those folks telling kids scary stories from the inside.

What I don't understand is why we intentionally make it so difficult for those who served their time to live a life? We have made it so that we guarantee that they have problems getting a job thus leading to more crime.
 
2010-11-10 11:56:26 AM  
Pocket Ninja:
All legislation should be driven by what the population fears.


well obviously, since all felons are violent offenders and have probably raped children why wouldn't we just lock them away and keep them from participating in or having any stake in society; that'll fix the problem
 
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